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We're Not Dead Yet...

There has been a lot of talk about our chances of winning the Big Ten this year and going to the Rose Bowl. People are confused about who we should be cheering for and who we want to lose. I've done some searching into the various tie breakers and I've come to the conclusion we're not dead yet. But like the knight in The Holy Grail we've lost an arm and a leg and it's not looking good.

Now, if four teams all go 6-2 in the conference they are all declared co-champions. Dumb, but this is how the Big Ten works. What we're really interested in is who goes to the Rose Bowl. We all want to play on the big stage on New Years day. But let's face it. The team that goes to the Rose Bowl is perceived to be the champion. Nobody says "Hey remember that year we were Big Ten Champs and went to the Capital One Bowl?"

It goes without saying we have to win the rest of our games. We're already two games behind Ohio State and Michigan so another loss would leave us hoping for crazy things like Minnesota beating Michigan. So we're at the end of our rope and there is no more room for error. Our best chance is to somehow work a tie and win out in the tie breaker. Let's take a look at how the tie breaking system.

b. Rose Bowl. Unless ranked No. 1 or No. 2 in the final BCS poll, the conference champion shall participate in the Rose Bowl. The championship shall be determined on the percentage basis of conference games (tie games counts ½ win and ½ loss). If there is a tie for the championship, the Rose Bowl representative will be determined as follows:
  1. An ineligible team shall not be considered in the standings for determination of the conference representative.
  2. If there is a tie for the championship, the winner of the game between these two teams shall represent the conference.

The head-to-head kills us against Michigan and Illinois. We basically need these teams to lose three conference games. Thankfully Illinois already has two losses and still has to play Ohio State. So the chances of them ending up with three losses is pretty good. But in order to bypass the head-to-head hurdle with Michigan we would need them to lose three of four games against Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan State, and Ohio State. Possible, but unlikely they lose three of those games. But they may lose two if they don't get Hart and Henne healthy again.

Here is the rest of the two team tie breaking procedure.

  1. If there is still a tie for the championship, or if the tied teams did not play each other, the team that played more games against Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) teams shall be eliminated.
  2. If there is still a tie, or if the tied teams did not play each other, or if both teams played the same number of games against an FCS team(s), the representative shall be determined on the percentage basis of all games played.
  3. If there is still a tie, the most recent team earning BCS automatic selection shall be eliminated.

Realistically the chances of there being just two teams with 6-2 records is remote at this time. If it's us and Michigan or us and Illinois we lose due to the head-to-head.

Our chances are much better if we move on to the three or four way tie breakers. What we need is a triangle where Ohio State beats Michigan and we beat Ohio State. And of course we need Ohio State and Michigan to drop another game somewhere. Both play the Badgers so we should all be the biggest Wisconsin fans this side of Madison. This would give the three teams identical 6-2 records. In this case, as hard as it would be to believe, we would win out on the tie breaker.

  1. If three teams are tied, and if one team defeated both of the other teams, then that team shall be the representative.
  2. If three teams are still tied, and if two of the three teams defeated the third team, the third team is eliminated, and the remaining two teams shall revert to the two-team tie procedure.
  3. If three teams are still tied, and there is a tie game between two of the three teams, or if two or all three of the teams did not play each other, the representative shall be determined on a percentage basis of all games played except, if one or two of the tied teams played more games against an FCS opponent than the other tied teams, then said team or teams shall be eliminated, and the remaining two teams, if applicable, shall revert to the two-team tie procedure.
  4. If three teams are still tied, and one of the three teams is eliminated through the percentage basis of all games played, the remaining two teams shall revert to the two-team tie procedure.
  5. If three teams are still tied, and all three teams have the same winning percentage of all games played, the most recent team representing the conference shall be eliminated, and the two remaining teams shall revert to the two-team tie procedure.

So if we beat Ohio State and Ohio State beats Michigan then #1 and #2 are ruled out. Going to #3 we look at overall records. Michigan would be ruled out at that point based on their losses to Oregon and Appalachian State. But what's interesting here is that Ohio State would also lose out because they played Youngstown State, a Football Championship Subdivision team.

But again here we're hoping for Wisconsin to knock them both off. If Wisconsin manages to do so they will also likely be 6-2 creating a four way tie. I won't post the tie breakers, but once again the Badgers would lose out to us in this scenario because they played The Citadel, a Div I-AA school.

So there is your wish list. We need to win out. We need Ohio State to beat Michigan. And we need the Buckeyes, Illini and Wolverines to lose one other game somewhere. Wisconsin is not a threat to us as long as we win out. So with that, here are the remaining schedules.

Thoughts? What is the most likely scenario in your mind?

Remaining Schedules
Penn State Ohio State Michigan Illinois
Week 1 Ohio State @ Penn State Minnesota BYE
Week 2 Purdue Wisconsin @ Michigan State @ Minnesota
Week 3 BYE Illinois @ Wisconsin @ Ohio State
Week 4 @ Michigan State @ Michigan Ohio State Northwestern

0 recs  |  Comment 17 comments

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The most likely scenario in my mind
is that UM wins until a season ending loss to OSU, leaving them 7-1, and us out of the picture regardless of what else happens, and the 1-AA provision is irrelevant.

Then, next year we tie with someone but somehow lose out because we played Coastal Carolina. That's the way the chips seem to fall for PSU.

by PSU Mudder on Oct 22, 2007 10:07 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I love it!
Keep hope alive!

It's not impossible that Michigan could lose all three of Wisconsin, Michigan State, and Ohio State. But, I don't think that's likely. Michigan seems to have a way of messing up early in the year, then getting stronger until they lose to Ohio State and their bowl game. Ohio State has also struggled with Wisconsin so that scenario you laid out could potentially happen.

Realistically, I think we have a great shot to knock off Ohio State this week. But, I think they will win out otherwise. However-that could land us an at large BCS bid if we win out. Michigan would have three losses and there are a ton of two-loss teams that could fall behind us. We would move up quite a bit this week in the standings, and we have to be an attractive team for a bowl game because of how well we travel.

This has been a crazy year in college football, and we've got as good a chance as anyone to get back into the thick of things.

Get up State.

by speedomike02 on Oct 22, 2007 10:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It is pointless
 We lost the games we needed to win.
 We could have beaten both Michigan and Illinois but we didn't because of deep seated flaws in this program that will not change until the great man retires.
 In the Michigan game we were cursed by unimaginative gutless play calling, a mediocre at best QB, inadequate OL play and a RB who couldn't hold on to the ball (or his scholarship).
 In the Illinois game we played the entire second half in their territory and had the same mediocre QB give our chances away.
 You don't see tOSU doing that.
 UM is playing better, but will not beat OSU.
 Zookism is catching up with Illinois.
 Hoping for the impossible is ridiculous. Just win out (starting with Saturday night), finish second or third in the conference, and strike next year. There is no reason (even with a new QB) that this team can't win the conference next year.
 

by DocP on Oct 22, 2007 10:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I disagree
Pointless would be sitting here saying "Well if Minnesota and Northwestern knock off Ohio State and Michigan we're in!"

I think we still have a reasonable chance since our competitors still have some tough games to go. If we lose this weekend I will agree and say it's pointless to talk about the BCS and conference championship.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Oct 22, 2007 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Minnesota is highly unlikely
but Northwestern might end up the fly in someone's ointment.

by PSU Nick on Oct 22, 2007 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have you watched college football this year?
How could you possibly define the scenario Mike lays out as "impossible" after everything that has happened this year in college football?

As far as tOSU, I saw them give the ball to Mich State two times and if the Spartans had fallen on the ball it would have been three times. They are not without flaws.

Get up State.

by speedomike02 on Oct 22, 2007 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Need to Heed the Lead
now more than ever, of our wise master and repeat the age-old mantra of one game at a time.  Win this week first. Do the little things.  Eliminate turnovers.  Score touchdowns in the red zone.  And prepare our young studs for a big-time program win at the Beav.

Mike, thx for the meticulousness in presenting the possibilities scenarios. My most likely: we squeak out a win sat night, and win out with ugly wins vs Purdue & MSU & crush temple (Pat Devlin 120yds & 2TDs). OSU, after losing to us, takes out Wiscy and Illinois at home.  Michigan stomps on Minny & MSU, but succumbs to a rejuvenated (& healthy again) Badger squad at Camp Randall.  Then bounces back bigtime by blowing out OSU at home.  Illinois beats Minny & NW, but it already done at 3conf losses, as is Wiscy. OSU finishes 6-2, like us, but it matters not, b/c Michigan, although 9-3 overall, finishes 7-1 in conference and goes to the Rose Bowl.

by jtothep on Oct 22, 2007 10:43 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Temple is on a win streak
Give them a little respect and not list them as a bye.

by PSU Nick on Oct 22, 2007 10:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No disrespect intended
Temple is playing well. Al Golden has that team turned around. I'm looking forward to seeing them play the Owls in person at the Link.

I was only referring to conference games on the remaining schedule.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Oct 22, 2007 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just playing
Giving some props to our "cupcakes" Buffalo and Temple, if they weren't screwed against UConn, Temple could be sort of be flirting with bowl elgibility

by PSU Nick on Oct 22, 2007 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How peculiar is it
That the head coaches at 2 of the losingest programs coming into the season could theoretically be in the running for head coaching positions at Nebraska(Buffalo) and Penn State(Temple) when the current coached move on.

by PSU Nick on Oct 22, 2007 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually
Win or lose to Temple would not matter. Michigan and Ohio State would automatically be eliminated in a 3-way tie based on the fact they played more FCS teams than we did.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Oct 22, 2007 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I disagree
I don't think the FCS rule applies.  If you look at it:
3. If three teams are still tied, and there is a tie game between two of the three teams, or if two or all three of the teams did not play each other, the representative shall be determined on a percentage basis of all games played except, if one or two of the tied teams played more games against an FCS opponent than the other tied teams, then said team or teams shall be eliminated, and the remaining two teams, if applicable, shall revert to the two-team tie procedure.

I think it would apply only if all the teams hadn't played each other, or there had been a tie game.  If it did apply, wouldn't it eliminate jaOSU (just another OSU).  That would be a bad if it left us in a head to head with just Illinois.

by Elihu on Oct 23, 2007 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm
You may be right. You have to be a lawyer to read these things.

But I think we would still win out. If there were a three team tie, Michigan would be eliminated based on overall record. Then we would go to the two team tie breaker in which case Penn State would beat out Ohio State based on head-to-head assuming we win.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Oct 23, 2007 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How it will play out...
I think if Penn State can win this weekend then they will run the table, the momentum will carry them.  OSU will win out as well and I have a feeling Michigan will find a way to win in every game(like last saturday when Illinois muffed the punt at their own 15!) except the OSU game, leaving OSU and Michigan 7-1 and sigh.....we are off to a bowl with a really long name
"all i can do is be me, whoever that is"-Bob Dylan

by Phishead on Oct 22, 2007 11:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

In Terms of National Exposure and Respect........
I would rather face the 3rd or 4th best team out of the SEC like Auburn, Georiga, or Kentucky....and clean their clock than play an Oregon or ASU in the Rose Bowl.
Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Oct 23, 2007 1:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

BCS
While a Big 10 championship would be best, the hopes for Mike's scenario are probably pretty slim.  I might instead root for a birth in one of the other BCS games.  Scenario:

Michigan = 0 or 1 conf losses
PSU/OSU = 2 conf losses
Wisconsin/Illinois = 3+ conf losses

The 2nd place Big 10 team should have a decent shot at a BCS berth, especially with a 5th game added this year.  As of today, there are only 13 or so credible teams with <2 losses (and dropping fast).  Hey, if Michigan loses a 3rd game overall we could even end up the highest ranked team in the conference.

Of course, let's see how Saturday goes first ...

by The Man with One Black Shoe on Oct 23, 2007 2:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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