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The Paterno Dilema

Along with the rest of you I've been thinking about how Joe Paterno and the administration should go about making a smooth coaching transition. I don't know what the right answer is, but I figure there are several different scenarios to choose from. Let's take a look at them.

The Barry Alvarez Solution

Prior to the 2005 season Alvarez announced he was going to be stepping down as the head coach at Wisconsin. He named Brett Bielema as his successor at that time and coached out 2005 as his final year.

The Pros - Program stability. Assistant coaches were retained. Recruits were clear in what to expect. The result was a 12-1 record in 2006 and a 9-3 record so far in 2007.

The Cons - The candidate for successor has to be a current member of the staff or someone currently ousted from a coaching role. You take a risk of long time assistants leaving when they realize they will not get the job they have been holding out for.

How This Would Work at Penn State - It would make sense for Paterno to declare 2008 to be his last season after the bowl game since his contract runs out after the 2008 season. The most likely member of the current staff would be Tom Bradley. He's been on the staff for 27 years and he has been the defensive coordinator since 2000. When Joe was injured in 2006 it was Bradley who took over the head coaching duties during the games.

This seemed to work well for Wisconsin and I think it would work well for Penn State.

The Bobby Bowden Solution

Last week Florida State gave Bowden a one year contract extension through 2008 and restructured offensive coordinator Jimbo Fisher's contract to make him a very rich man if he is not named the next Florida State head coach.

The Pros - Again, program stability. Assistant coaches, players, and recruits know what to expect.

The Cons - Like the Alvarez solution, the successor has to be named from the current staff. Other assistants hoping for a chance at the head coaching job may be tempted to leave to look for other opportunities.

How This Would Work At Penn State - Curley would have to grant Joe a series of one year contract extension starting in 2009. Then he would have to select a successor, again likely Bradley, and agree to pay them handsomely if they are not appointed the next Penn State head coach.

The jury is still out on this plan at Florida State. What if Bowden decides to coach another five, six, or seven years? Is it fair to Fisher to make him wait around like that? This is assuming Bowden will be granted more extensions after 2008.

The Lloyd Carr Solution

Last spring Carr had his contract restructured to give him an out to be paid as an administrative employee after the 2007 season. He then had the contracts of his assistants restructured into guaranteed two year deals.

The Pros - Carr went to bat for his assistants and got them money. His loyalty to them was rewarded in his staff sticking around for his final season. Now anyone not retained by Rodriguez will get a nice fat bonus check and likely find another coaching job very quickly.

The Cons - There was a period of uncertainty that lasted a few weeks after Carr announced his retirement after the Ohio State game. Athletic director Bill Martin looked like a bumbling fool at times. Some recruits decommitted and others decided to start looking around.

How This Would Work At Penn State - Nothing need be done to Paterno's current contract. It's due to run out after the 2008 season. Just quietly let it run out and announce before the bowl game in 2008 that this is it. But the contracts of the assistants need to be redone right away. Give them all two year deals of guaranteed money if they stick around. The pay day at the end will keep the staff together so we can be competitive in 2008.

The Status Quo Solution

Give Joe a four year contract extension through 2012.

The Pros - Speculation of Joe quitting or getting forced out after the 2008 season ends. Program stability is maintained.

The Cons - Longtime assistants get tired of waiting around. Joe's age and inability to travel continue to hurt recruiting.

How This Would Work At Penn State - You're effectively kicking the can down the road and saying we'll deal with it four or five years from now. As if the decision will be easier at that time.

The Emperor For Life Solution (a.k.a. - The Charlie Weis Solution)

Give Paterno a lifetime contract and let him coach as long as he wants.

The Pros - The uncertainty regarding post-2008 is lessened. Paterno can say he intends to coach one, three, five years and end any discussion regarding his future. Until Paterno announces when his last game will be recruits can assume he will be around for a while.

The Cons - Long time assistants will likely jump ship. There is no sign that the old man wants to call it quits anytime soon. Assistants hoping take over and other assistants hoping to fill the resulting power vacuum will get tired of waiting around.

How This Would Work At Penn State - I'm not crazy about it. Half of the fan base is on the verge of revolution when you start discussing contract extensions for Paterno. I think giving Paterno a lifetime contract would be too much like maintaining the status quo.

Conclusion

Some of you may take issue with me saying Bradley is the most likely assistant to take over from the current staff. Whatever. The intent of the post is to discuss possible succession plans regardless of who the successor will be. We can discuss candidates at another time. Something tells me in a couple weeks we'll be dying for something football related to talk about.

If I had my choice, I would go with the Lloyd Carr solution. Let everyone know 2008 will be Joe's last year. Then pay the assistants handsomely to stick it out. Promise them the opportunity to interview for the job or any other jobs the incoming coach is looking to fill. I'm not crazy about the Alvarez or Bowden solution only because I would like to see Curley go outside the program and at least interview some people. Who knows who might be out there interested in the job. You'll never catch the big fish if you don't throw the bait in the water.

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The Paterno Dilemma
Mike,
 Great analysis. I also agree with the Carr solution, but the best we can hope for is the Alvarez solution. Joe has too much say in his successor and he will not want someone from outside the program who won't guarantee Jay a job.
 Unless the boosters get really upset, Status Quo is the result.

by DocP on Dec 19, 2007 7:20 AM EST   0 recs

paterno
Excellent review.  However, I really wonder if we aren't overreacting.  It seems like one assistant coach left and everyone is all caught up in the fervor of the "dilemma".  I agree it is very interesting and we are bored, but if you step back and look at Joe mentally and physically without taking chronological age into account what is the difference between today and 1997 or even 1992?  I mean he broke his leg and had surgery and is right back out there, he bounced back better than some guys half his age would have.  Maybe I am missing something, but I really wonder if all our speculation is just that and we will have a real change around 2015 (which you did include as an option).  I do look forward to a change, and hopefully it will be for the better but Joe is tough to predict.

by PSU86 on Dec 19, 2007 9:12 AM EST   0 recs

The difference is
[1] In 1992 or 1997 there was objectively no need to change a thing.  Frankly, the 1990's are the decade when Paterno won the most games, and had his highest percentage of bowl games and wins.  It's actually pretty remarkable how consistently good Penn State was in the 1990's.

[2] In 2004 somebody asked me if I wanted Paterno to leave, my response was "Hell no, I want Paterno back the way he was".  Getting him back (in a sense) in 2005 was a miracle, a literal 20 to 1 shot.  My sense now is that we are pushing our luck.  If Joe walked away now, or even after a successful 2008, you could say that the reclamation from the dark times was his last major accomplishment.

[3] The perception that that we could lose the opportunity to hire one or both of the perceived leading candidates if we don't act quickly.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Dec 19, 2007 9:37 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

IMO
I think we might be getting caught up in the whole coaching change shitstorm that has been going on for several weeks now.  Don't get me wrong, we need to figure out shit out, but the level of attention this is getting is a lot higher than last year, and to be honest, I'm not sure why.  A secondary coach leaving for a DC job is nothing to get worried about.

Now if Bradley leaves, that's different, but to be honest I don't see it happening.  He is maybe 5 or 6 on their list.  While it might be a good gig for him by most accounts he is more a PSU guy than a coach...if he wasn't he would have left 5 or 6 years ago.  The interesting thing about him leaving is that it means he doesn't think he's getting the PSU job in 2009, so in that sense I think it is a bit of a problem.

But what if he is just interviewing as a tactic, to maybe up his takeover offer from PSU a couple $100k?  "WVU offered me $1.8..." and so on.

Joe is old, and he has to compete every single year with, maybe outside of USC, is the very best and most consistant program in the nation in OSU...not only that but we share borders so they come to PA to recruit.  They get more attention from ESPN, they get more love from the B10, their staff is strong and they win, a lot.  The only thing that really settles down the FireJoe comments seems to be a Big10 championship, which would not be an easy task for anyone, not Les or Saban or Pete.

In summary, i think we just need to make sure Jay doesn't get the job.  That is it, we can recover from anything else.  I really think that.

http://thebigeleventh.blogspot.com/

by Big 11th on Dec 19, 2007 11:10 AM EST   0 recs

Agreed
but on that same note a DC leaving to be a head coach is understandable too. Vanderlinden (or Johnson, but I don't think he wants more responsibilities) can move up to DC. It's not the end of the world, coaches leave schools every year. We need to stop overreacting when it happens at Penn State.

by PSU Nick on Dec 19, 2007 11:20 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

What dies it say
if Tom Bradley really is only fifth or sixth on WVU's list and he would be first or second on ours?  I find that troubling.
For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Dec 19, 2007 1:08 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

It says
they want someone with West Virginia ties first

by PSU Nick on Dec 19, 2007 2:05 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

The X factor is
that IMO JoePa is trying to avoid announcing when his last year would be so that they can avoid the inevetible media circus that would result, i.e. an announcement prior to the season would distract the team.  Not sure how you would do that, unless all this has been discussed behind closed doors and perhaps Bradley already knows when he'd take over.

by Joe 96alum on Dec 19, 2007 12:59 PM EST   0 recs

The one thing that I know for certain
is that I am going to have absolutely no say in what happens - whether they re-new Joe's contract - or hire Rick Neuheisel - or promote JayPa - They aren't going to call me or really care what I think about the choice(s).

My opinion is that there are quite a few men out there who would like to be head coach at Penn State - Whether they attended PSU, or grew up near Central PA or they admire Coach Paterno or they really like the way they look in navy blue - it's going to be a coveted job.  In theory.  In reality, the PSU Admin and/or Paterno Legacy could sour the pot - pretty quickly.

by PSUgirl on Dec 19, 2007 1:11 PM EST   0 recs

bradley
/if Tom Bradley really is only fifth or sixth on WVU's list and he would be first or second on ours?  I find that troubling./

This is a good point but I'm not sure it's totally fair.  Different people would fit better at different places.  WVU lost a high profile guy, they want one back.  They are used to a very exciting offense, that is how they made it to the top 10 the last couple of years...a guy like Bradley doesn't appear to prolong this.

On the flip side, Bradley fits at PSU.  He founded LB U, he does well recruiting defensive players, especially in state.  He knows exactly what the fans expect, and he has shown how loyal he is to the program (something most coaches cannot say about their school), these things don't all translate to WVU, that's all.

http://thebigeleventh.blogspot.com/

by Big 11th on Dec 19, 2007 1:49 PM EST   0 recs

None of the Above
I think they will give Joe a 2 year extension. This will assure the coaches that they will have a job for the next 3 years. If Joe retires earlier then this will have the same effect as the Carr option.

I am not convinced that the next HC will come from within and I don't think the next HC should be stuck with the existing coaching staff. He may want to retain some but it should be his choice. If the HC comes from within then all the coaches that want to stay will be retained.

As evident in the past few years about the only thing a coach's contract is good for is toilet paper.

Question: Do non HC coaches contacts run concurrent to the head coaches contract? Are they under contract to the head coach or the university?

by ageing lion on Dec 19, 2007 1:54 PM EST   0 recs

Just a question to throw out
that no one has a definitive answer to. If Bradley were to stay and become HC, would he be forced to keep Jay on? That's the one thing I worry about when I think of TB as PSU's next coach. If the answer is yes, I say go outside the current staff.
Angelo

by nittanyroar on Dec 19, 2007 2:02 PM EST   0 recs

Jay
I imagine when Joe retires he will retain some kind of position with the athletic department. Nobody can walk into a room, shake hands, crack a joke, and collect money like Joe Paterno. They're not just going to let their cash cow go. So if Joe has a place in the athletic department I imagine he will have some say about who the successor will be. In that sense I think Bradley has a leg up and Jay will probably be safe. I don't think Joe is dumb enough to push to give Jay the job. He's always been about personal accountability so I imagine he will want to see the job go to the best candidate. Jay isn't ready for that job and I don't think Joe would want to see him put in there to ruin his legacy.

The people who think Joe is holding out so Jay can take over are listening too much to the wacky fringe of the program. They all need to take a step back from the ledge cuz it ain't going to happen.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Dec 19, 2007 2:23 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I wasn't talking about
Jay being promoted to head coach though. I don't see that happening either. What I was trying to say is that if TB was promoted, would he keep Jay on? If he did what are the possibilities of Jay getting demoted? If good great, if not then that would imply that Jay continues coaching QB's and calling pass plays. That never thrilled me.
Angelo

by nittanyroar on Dec 19, 2007 10:36 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Not forced
I don't think any HC would be forced to retain coaches but I personally think it would be very difficult to fire one of the "boys" you have worked with for the past xx years out of loyalty. If would be a lot easier for an outside HC to replace existing coaches.

by ageing lion on Dec 19, 2007 2:25 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I would hope that the
next coach, regardless of being an inhouse hire or somebody from the outside, would have the ability to shake up the staff, especially the offense, special teams, and strength and conditioning coach.  Everybody talks about how we went in the tank after Sandusky left.  If you really analyze it, the decline from elite status started after 1994 when Craig Cirbus (the offensive line coach) left and when Chet Furman was no longer the strength and conditioning coach.  Notice how our offensive lines get pushed around?  The line play this year was better than it's been in a long while, but it's still not elite.  I think part of the problem with the coaches is there is too much stability, and therefore you are not expected to produce.  I don't believe in an atmosphere of fear and intimidation (my employer tries that shit and morale SUCKS), but there has to be some degree of accountability, and I don't think that exists anymore.  When you don't have to produce, you just go through the motions.

by Ab4PSU on Dec 19, 2007 2:55 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Keep Him
As long as you can, but no lifetime stuff, that could get messy.  Do you want a contractual obligation to a sinew 97 year old?  You have to allow for the moment when Joe can't physically do it anymore, be that 2009 or 2030.

Now, I don't think finding the next Penn State coach should have any bearing on Joe's status.  Good guys spring up every year, so theres no reason to worry.  Penn State will be able to hire whoever they want.  Now, as for Bradley, I honestly think he'll stick it out, no matter how long he has to do it.  27 years is a long time, and I have a hard time seeing him walk away without clear indication that he isnt the successor.  If he leaves, owell, we can rebound from that.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Dec 19, 2007 3:28 PM EST   0 recs

next coach
I truly feel the best way this can go down is to announce after the bowl game that TB is going to take over after 2008, but Joe is too power hungry to let go, it's all he knows and change is hard for anyone especially an 80+ old man.

Give TB a shot for 3 years and evaluate, if he stinks go outside the program.  Problem is many better qualified people would love the PSU job, guys w/ HC experince like Golden, Schiano, Ferentz, etc.  These guys are proven winners w/ the excepion of GOlden but he coaches at Temple and TB is a good coach/recruiter but his D fails to come up big in major games this decade, so maybe he is not that great.

Strike First...Strike Hard...No Mercy

by SweepTheLeg on Dec 19, 2007 4:16 PM EST   0 recs

So
Just have Joe step down because Schiano had a good year in the big east and followed it up with a mediocre season?

He isn't a proven winner.  Joe Paterno is a proven winner.  If you're going to run him out to get Greg Schiano in there, yer nuts.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Dec 19, 2007 10:05 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I'm all for Golden
coming home if Bradley isn't JoePa's successor.  I think he's making a MEDIOCRE Temple program competitive, which is something in and of itself!!

by Ab4PSU on Dec 20, 2007 12:11 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Mediocre?
There's mediocre, there's less than mediocre, and then there's terrible. Temple was terrible when Golden took over. They're less than mediocre now, but if he can take them to a bowl game next year I would like him to at least get an interview for the PSU job when JoePa steps down.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Dec 20, 2007 2:38 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I guess it's a matter
of syntax, Mike, but when one of my friends screams "Mediocre!!!" after another disheartening loss, we're using mediocre as though that is worse than terrible.  But in any event, I think Golden is doing a terrific job considering the lack of interest and lack of facilities and resources Temple puts into football.  And the more I look at things, I'm starting to think Golden, and not Bradley, may be the one to get us back to elite status.  And, this is just my opinion, obviously, but I'd bet everything I own Golden would love to come home to his Nittany Lions and coach a football school (and his alma mater, no less)if given the opportunity.

by Ab4PSU on Dec 20, 2007 2:47 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Huh?
I guess you are one of the blind Joe Pa 4ever guys, how many big wins does PSU have this decade?  What is their record since 2000, I know it is not good.

He is a proven winner against team they should beat, the only big win I can recall is OSU in 2005.

I like Joe and think he is a good man, but hasn't won a national championship since 86 (screwed in 94') but I would live to know how many of the 300+ wins came against traditional BAD teams like Temple, Rutgers, Pitt, WVU, and other scrub teams in the 70's/80's/90's.

Also, not saying Schiano is the next Lombardi but he has experience, good recruiter (that can actually travel to meet big time players), and is about 35 years younger than Joe and probably won't die in the next few years or shit himself on the sidelines.

Don't be an asshat and not think PSU should be looking towards the future, GS/Golden/Vandy/Bradley etc should get a sniff and something needs to be done after the bowl game.

Strike First...Strike Hard...No Mercy

by SweepTheLeg on Dec 21, 2007 12:41 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Watch it
Let's not start calling other readers "asshats". Keep it clean.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Dec 21, 2007 1:26 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

sorry mike...
But I love the term asshat!
Strike First...Strike Hard...No Mercy

by SweepTheLeg on Dec 21, 2007 1:39 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

What the hell do I know!
I loved Jerry Sandusky, but I remember making a comment to him, many years ago, that it was good to see the PSU defense returning to its agressive former self.  This was after several embarassing defensive performances with him at the helm.  I really don't have any positive inputs, but I've been a fan since The Richie Lucas era and a season ticket holder since '73 and I can't think that Joe isn't processing all this in his mind at one time or another.

Basically, who can change anything?  I don't want Spanier to kick him out before he's (Joe) decided to go and I'm sure Joe would not want to leave disorder.  I think we're getting all bent out of shape for no good reason.  When he's ready to go, there will be a plan in place.

My hope is that he'll leave with more wins that Bowden!!  

by BeerPin on Dec 19, 2007 5:54 PM EST   0 recs

Couldn't agree more
Hey he's hung on this long doing an excellent job, I want that record too.

But we need better coaching then we are getting at the moment.  We aren't getting the amazing recruits we used to.  So we need to nurture the talent we do get better.  I'm not saying it was the coaches fault that 5stars have been busts some times the ratings are just wrong.  But Poz was a 20th LB coming out of HS, Sean Lee was 3 stars, Scirrotto was only 2.  When was the last time we had offensive players with that kind of growth?

by platnumkid on Dec 20, 2007 9:59 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Offense
Tony Hunt, Jordan Norwood and Deon Butler turned out pretty good.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Dec 20, 2007 10:30 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

1 out of 3
actually, Butler's 2005-2007 stats declined and Norwood's increased slightly.  both were solid out of the gate but there's no evidence of marked improvement that qualifies as "development".  this is of course because as long as Fredo is the QB coach we can expect little development at the keystone position.  forget about pro-style drop-back types (why would a pro prospect even CONSIDER coming to Penn State to "learn" from JayPa?).  for now, only Mike Robinson types need apply.  but Mike was special - his brand of lightning won't strike twice.

by loyalopposition on Dec 24, 2007 7:30 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

"Joe's [...] inability to travel"
interesting.  i don't know if you're projecting forward or if you mean this is a current issue.  if the latter it's another reason his continued tenure is ridiculous.  in spite of being called the geographic "outpost" of the BigTen back when we joined Joe manages to travel the least of any team in the conference:
http://tinyurl.com/2pm9jx

since their 1992 loss in Provo they've rarely strayed far from the front porch.  below is the entire list of away non-conf games since Big11Ten play began in 1993.

1993 (10-2) W @ Maryland
1994 (12-0) W @ Temple
1995 ( 9- 3) W @ Rutgers
1996 (11-2) W v USC @ Meadowlands NJ
1997 ( 9- 3) W @ Louisville
1998 ( 9- 3) W @ Pitt
1999 (10-3) W @ Miami
2000 ( 5- 7) L @ Pitt
2001 ( 5- 6) L @ Virginia
2002 ( 9- 4) - - - NONE
2003 ( 3- 9) L @ Nebraska
2004 ( 4- 7) L @ Boston College
2005 (11-1) - - - NONE
2006 ( 9- 4) L @ Notre Dame
2007 ( 8- 4) W @ Temple
2008 ( TBD) - @ Syracuse
2009 ( TBD) - - - NONE SCHEDULED
2010 ( TBD) - @ Alabama

guess it takes an extra year to ramp up for those safari's to Lincoln, South Bend & Tuscaloosa.  home & home w/Oregon State?  unthinkable.

by loyalopposition on Dec 24, 2007 8:30 AM EST   0 recs

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