The Big (L)east

by BSD on Jul 23, 2007 10:08 PM EDT in Football Comment 19 comments

We've gone over this before, but some people obviously weren't listening. This weekend the Centre Daily Times' Rob Bracken laid out the case why the Big East is a conference to be feared. Please. Where to start.

The Big East went 5-0 in bowl games last year. It had three teams finish in the top 12 in the BCS rankings and hung up a 14-7 record against the other BCS conferences.

A 5-0 bowl record sure looks impressive. Until you see who they played.

South Florida defeated East Carolina 24-7 in the PapaJohns.com Bowl.
Rutgers defeated Kansas State 37-10 in the Texas Bowl.
West Virginia defeated Georgia Tech 38-35 in the Gator Bowl.
Louisville defeated Wake Forest 24-13 in the Orange Bowl.
Cincinnati defeated Western Michigan 27-24 in the International Bowl.

This is hardly a murderers row of opponents. The only ranked opponent in this entire group was Wake Forest who was number 18 only because they won an extremely weak ACC. Sure the Big Ten went 2-5 in bowl season, but look who we played: Florida, USC, Tennessee, Arkasas, Texas, Texas Tech and Maryland. How would the Big East have faired over a schedule like that? Take Louisville or West Virginia and put them in the Big Ten and they instantly become three loss teams. Rutgers probably loses four or five.

Knowing the Big East teams played a bunch of cream puffs in their bowl games, Bracken throws in the 14-7 stat against BCS conference schools to prove his point. He figures nobody has the time to look into those games. He overestimates my social life and underestimates my hatred for the Big East lovefest.

Wins: Indiana, Kentucky, Miami, Kansas State (2), Illinois, North Carolina (2), Maryland, Mississippi State, Virginia, and the bowl games previously mentioned.
Losses: Ohio State, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest (2), Iowa, Kansas, Michigan State

What are the best wins there? Louisville's win over a 6-6 Miami team that barely earned a bowl bid to the MPC Computers Bowl where they barely squeaked out a 21-20 win against Nevada? Really their best win as a conference is probably West Virginia's 45-24 win over the Maryland Terrapins, a team that also beat Miami as well as Clemson and Florida State before beating Purdue in the Citrus Bowl.

The Ohio State and Virginia Tech losses are both credited to Cincinnati. Kudos to the Bearcats, the only Big East team with the balls to schedule tough out of conference opponents. The rest of them have no excuse losing to BCS conference also-rans like Iowa, Kansas, and Michigan State.

And how does the out of conference schedule look for the Big East's "Big Three" this year?

No! No no no no no no no! I refuse to believe any of these teams are worthy of a top ten ranking and a spot in the BCS title game for beating such weak competition and running unscathed through a conference that features Pitt, Syracuse, and UConn. Until the top teams in the Big Least go out and play some real competition they do not deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with the USC's and Florida's of the world. People like Rob Bracken need to wake up and start realizing that, but I guess they get hypnotized by the shiny records and BCS tie-ins and can't see how weak the Big East really is.

Now throw in the fact that the Scarlet Knights are in New York City's back yard, so the potential exists for them to carve out a share of that mega-TV market, and with that exposure they become even more attractive to the recruits in New Jersey.

This will never happen. New Jersey is dominated by professional sports. The New York Yankees and Giants are king. For those who can't stand to root for the glamorous choice, there are the Mets and Jets. Whatever is left get sucked up by the Knicks, Nets, Rangers, and Devils. Rutgers football will never, and I mean never grab a large portion of the New York headlines for more than a day at a time. New York is just not a college town. It never was and it never will be. Writers like Bracken need to stop giving undue credit to teams and conferences that duck the top teams in the nation to protect their BCS Bowl tie-in status.

So much for its perceived second-class status. The Big East is now a major player on the college football landscape.

Just because you deem it doesn't make it so.

**Out Of Conference Games**
Big East Team	Toughest(?)				Weakest(?)
Louisville	NC State	at Kentucky	Utah	Middle Tenn. State	Murray State
Rutgers	Maryland	Navy	at Army	Norfolk State	Buffalo
West Virginia	at Maryland	at Marshall	East Carolina	Western Michigan	Mississippi State

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If only...

Sports writers did that much work. Unfortunately, they don't and THEY are the ones that vote in the polls. So, when a one loss Michigan, PSU, or Wisc. gets matched up against an undefeated WVU or Lou., who will the media pick to play their darling Trojans (also with 1 loss, but screw that, the Pac-10 RULES!!!!(not))?

The Big Least team.

As Big 10 fans, we just have to root for Pitt, South Florida, and Cincinatti to keep a potentiel unbeaten from actually reaching that point.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...Put 2 and 2 Together!!!

by fugimaster24 on Jul 24, 2007 1:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Might I add

Mike, that was a great write-up that I swiftly sent on over to Joe (snarky) Starkey of the Pittsburgh Trib.

His college writing is depolrable, (see http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/columnists/starkey/s_514118.html) however, he did come up with the line of the year here.

"In the middle of his impassioned speech outside PNC Park on Saturday, irate Pirates fan Andy Chomos tossed a Ronny Paulino Bobblehead into Federal Street.
Just then, a car sped past - and you won't be surprised to learn that it barely missed the fallen doll.

Even the Ronny Paulino Bobblehead avoids collisions."

Good stuff

Living in Pittsburgh's Pitt dominated college landscape, its nice to know SOMEONE out there is rational when it come to talking college football.

When people ask me to list my favorite sports teams I tell them:

Penn State (football and basketball)
Pirates baseball
Penguins Hockey
Mets baseball
Insert Big 10 school when playing out of conf.
Steeler football

The typical yinzr then waves his beer stained terrible towel, and pulls down his 2 size to small shirt to cover his beer belly, and laughs all the way back to Al's tire barn, where he whips out his Post Gazette sports section, written at a 4th grade reading level.

Yes, its quite a town I live in, and fresh perspective like yours reminds me there are still intelligent human beings out there...

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...Put 2 and 2 Together!!!

by fugimaster24 on Jul 24, 2007 1:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

2-5

Great post, I've been saying the same thing for months. One slight correction is that we went 2-5 in bowl games, with Iowa barely losing to heavily favored Texas after leading for a good portion of the game.

Anyhow, it sickens me that one of those teams could end up in the NC this year. It would give me no solace to see them destroyed by their opponent, because another great team would be relegated to a lesser bowl, all because they likely played a legit OOC schedule (as well as playing in a real conference).

Lastly, I couldn't agree with you more about Rutgers. I know I'm supposed to like Schiano because he's a PSU guy, but I just can't look past the fact that RU (a public school) is giving raises to the football staff but cutting other programs across the board (state budget deficit). This really paints a great picture of the "student athlete." As if that's not enough, I'm supposed to buy into the "Queensmen" because they've achieved one good year, coupled with a big bowl win over a very mediocre opponent. I guess this is enough for EVERY CFB preview magazine to throw Ray Rice on the cover (I paged through them all while waiting in line for Harry Potter...don't overestimate my social life either) like he's the next Bo Jackson. Newsflash: great teams don't lose when their opponents are starting a backup QB (both the Cincy and WVU games). Hell, great teams don't lose to Cincy in general.

Anyhow, great post. The Big Least is a sham, and it's nice to know that some of us out there can see through the hype.

by Cpiritual27 on Jul 24, 2007 8:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the correction

Not sure how I missed that.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Jul 24, 2007 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

great line

He overestimates my social life and underestimates my hatred for the Big East lovefest.

awesome....

Maize n Brew
Because Football Is Better With Beer

by Maize n Brew Dave on Jul 24, 2007 9:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Good stuff.

Ah Mike, I wish I had your unbridled enthusiasm when it comes to hating something. I really wish I did.

by Galen on Jul 24, 2007 9:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's a gift I guess

Or a curse. I don't know which.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Jul 24, 2007 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think....you think the Big East is overrated?

Do I have that right?

Also-the Papajohns.com Bowl? That's the worst bowl name ever. Why wouldn't they just name it the Papa John's Bowl?

This is a typical cycle in sports today:
-Player/team/conference isn't on the level of the elite players/teams/conferences of their sport. The player/team/conference is therefore not thought of highly and at times is criticized in the media.
-Player/team/conference starts to improve to a certain extent, maybe even outperforming the elite on very random occasions. The media gets tired of fawning over the same players/teams/conferences and wants to look like they are smart so they start talking about the other player/team/conference and saying such things as "watch out for....", "sleeper", and "you don't hear much about...."
-The rest of the media starts to catch on to the point that everyone has the same player/team/conference as their sleeper or surprise player/team/conference.
-The player/team/conference then becomes hyped up to the point they are overrated. The player/team/conference then underperforms in a big spot and is brought back to reality. The media may even say something like "in over their head", "couldn't handle the pressure" or "people got a little to excited about.."
-The media goes back to fawning over the players/teams/conferences they usually fawn over.

That's what I see happening with the Big East right now. I see the same thing with Illinois in the Big Ten. You're not a sleeper if everyone is talking about you. I think the Big East is in for a dose of reality this year.

Get up State.

by speedomike02 on Jul 24, 2007 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Papa Johns Bowl

I think they called it the PapaJohns.com bowl because Papa Johns wanted to promote their website. I'm sure they got like four hours of commercial time during the game so you would think they could have promoted it then. But whatever.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Jul 24, 2007 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One thing that drives me INSANE

Is when lazy writers and analysts bring up a conference's bowl record. It's such garbage. Great, the Big East went 5-0. Well, look at the pointspreads for those games:

So Fla -6
Cincy -7
Rutgers -8
WVA -9
L'ville -10

Meanwhile, here were the spreads for the Big Ten games:

Minny +8
Iowa +8
PSU +4
Wisconsin +2
Purdue -2
Michigan -2
Ohio State -7

So Vegas thought the B10 would be 3-4, and they ended up 2-5 (thanks, Minnesota!)

-- Run Up The Score http://runupthescore.wordpress.com

by Run Up The Score on Jul 24, 2007 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Antiquated

Not just your coach, but your views as well. If you don't realize the paradigm of college football has shifted, you will find yourself left even further behind. You can bash the bowl victories of the Big East, but Wake did win the ACC. Kansas State (Rutger's win) did beat Texas (Iowa's loss). All you are citing is pedigree, and not actual quality. If the Big Ten was TRULY unfazed by the Big East, they would schedule them during the regular season. I notice you blame the Big East for not having the "balls" to schedule Big 11 teams. However, it isn't the Big East ducking the schedule. Louisville's inability to get other BCS schools to schedule home and home series is well document. But, alas, all you choose to do is stand outside the yard throwing insults. Have fun going to another non-BCS bowl, and watching your fellow Big11 teams get blown out of the BCS games they are in. Maybe your next coach will realize the true landscape of college football.

by GoCards on Jul 24, 2007 1:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Response

I don't think there are any insults in what I typed. I just pointed out their weak out of conference schedule and said their 5-0 Bowl game record wasn't that impressive. You're the one hurling insults calling our coach anitquated.

For the record, we can't control which bowl game we go to, but the four teams we lost to last year combined for six losses and they were all top ten teams when we played them. You can make fun of the Big Ten's bowl record in 2006, but in 2005 we did go 2-0 in BCS bowls, so I don't think we fell off the Crappy Cliff all that much.

I stand by what I said. Put Louisville in the Big Ten and they instantly become a three loss team.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Jul 24, 2007 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Balances of power typically instantly shift

I guess that's what we're supposed to believe, correct? The Big East has one good year, and now they're all major players. Rutgers (yes, perennial doormat Rutgers) has one good (read: fluky) year, and now they're a major contender. That's almost comical to me, as anytime I've argued with a Pitt fan, they say PSU isn't "back" after TWO good years. Rutgers is one crazy anomaly, alright.

Now, these bowl victories weren't exactly impressive, either. WVU squeezed past GT, even though GT was starting their backup QB. Says a lot for the caliber of WVU's defense, huh? Louisville backers will argue that their victory was "convincing," but I remember a game which was tied entering the 4th quarter (yes, I watched that game...it's easier when they're not on Thursdays). Cincy didn't exactly set the world on fire either, did they?

But hey, by your logic, I guess UCLA was one of the best teams in the land, because they beat USC. See how funny this looks when you play the "well we beat them and they beat so-and-so" game? Anyhow, yes, we might well enjoy the Outback Bowl/Capital One Bowl. Personally, I have my eyes on the ultimate prize, but at least we have the solace of knowing our third best team won't be relegated to the Texas Bowl. There's your national respect.

by Cpiritual27 on Jul 24, 2007 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As bad as their OOC schedule is

Ours is worse. #117, #118, and #119 from the list of 119 1-A schools over the last ten years.

http://runupthescore.wordpress.com/2007/07/23/mmmm-cupcakes/

by M1EK on Jul 24, 2007 3:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

But we scheduled Notre Dame

Why does everyone keep leaving that out? That's what everyone does. One marquee team and three cupcakes. Should Oklahoma get extra credit for playing North Texas while we're playing Temple? Penn State is no different in their scheduling. Ohio State and Michigan are both playing Div. II-A teams this year. At least we're not taking that route in 2007.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Jul 24, 2007 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And Alabama...

...when they'll probably be vying for SEC supremacy, once Saban gets some of his own guys in there. But I guess we're pansies for not scheduling Big Bad Big Least teams.

by Cpiritual27 on Jul 24, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

I don't get why people get so bent out of shape over those three games. It kills me when other fanbases rip on our schedule becuase of those games, completely disregarding the fact that WE PLAY IN THE BIG TEN.

Get up State.

by speedomike02 on Jul 24, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The argument

"we play in such a tough conference that we can't play anybody good OOC" was soundly rejected back when we were independents and the SECs and Big 8's and Big 10's used it against us. It's equally uncompelling now.

As for Notre Dame - 1 respectable team + 3 bottom-scrapers is, in fact, showing the problem - Notre Dame was scheduled 10 years ago back when we still had some balls. Nobody like them is on the schedule going forward; but I bet we still get the 3 cupcakes.

by M1EK on Jul 24, 2007 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs