Big Ten Expansion?

by BSD on Jul 26, 2007 10:30 PM EDT in News

It's been almost a decade since the Big Ten made a push to persuade Notre Dame to join the conference. With the new Big Ten Channel about to launch, Jim Delany is back to thinking about expansion again to get his new network on television in some new markets. This time it sounds serious.

The creation of the Big Ten Network means conference officials likely will discuss expansion again, Commissioner Jim Delany said Wednesday.
"I think we need to look at it in the next year," he said during a wide-ranging interview with Register reporters.

Adding a 12th team likely will be revisited because of the network, which is scheduled to launch Aug. 30, Delany said. An additional big-name university in a large television market means more exposure for the network and its sponsors.

"It changes to some extent how you think about it," Delany said of expansion. "The broader (the network) is distributed, the more value (expansion) has.

"We have eight states. With expansion, you could have nine."

Then in a statement that wreaks of an off-the-record suggestion, the Des Moines Register drops the bombshell that will fuel the speculation.

Rutgers and Syracuse could be universities at whom the Big Ten looks.

These aren't terrible choices. I mean, they're better than Temple or Akron, but they wouldn't be my first choices. For the record, here are my choices in order.

1. Notre Dame - The Big Ten needs to make another push to bring the Fighting Irish into the conference. It's a no brainer for the Big Ten. Bringing in a high profile team like the Irish would instantly elevate the entire conference to a whole new level. And their acedemics, which is a very big deal in the Big Ten, would fit in perfectly.

Now before you Notre Dame fans scoff and click the back button consider a few things. The deal with NBC runs out in 2010 and there is no guarantee the network television cash cow will be around forever. NBC runs a business and they are all about making money. With NFL, NBA, and NASCAR television contracts going up Notre Dame is one budget cut away from losing their position as the Haliburton of college football. If NBC has to choose between keeping the NFL and NBA or keeping Notre Dame, I would not feel comfortable about that if I were the Irish.

Currently Notre Dame gets $9 million per year from NBC for the rights to broadcast their home football games. I've seen projections that the Big Ten Network will bring in $5-$7 Million for each school's athletic department. Adding Notre Dame would bring in the type of national exposure the Network needs to convince Comcast to put it on the basic cable plan. This would mean the projected revenue would be closer to the $7 million or higher. Add to this the security of the bowl game revenue sharing and it makes sense financially for Notre Dame to join the conference. Losing the NBC deal and failure to make a BCS bowl will certainly mean disaster for their entire athletic program.

The Big Ten should approach Notre Dame first and Notre Dame would be wise to consider it. It may be now or never for the Irish. If the Big Ten adds another school they will most likely not come around asking again.

2. Pitt - This isn't the smartest choice for the Big Ten, but then this is my wish list. For all the crap I give Pitt around here, I want to see this rivalry played every year. Everyone does. Adding Pitt makes that happen.

But this doesn't jive with Delany's wish to expand the market for his new network. If it's true he has an eye on the New York market, Pitt isn't going to work.

3. Rutgers - If we can't get Pitt, the Scarlet Knights would provide instant rival material for the Nittany Lions. It could be a pretty one sided rival, especially if Greg Schiano left the program for another job and they went back to their losing ways. But geographically it would be a natural fit for Penn State. The big advantage for the conference adding Rutgers would be expansion into the New Jersey and New York markets, which I'm not so sure about. New York is a professional town. Not a college town. While New Jersey would be a great recruiting ground for the conference, New York and New England are traditionally not high on talent.

4. Syracuse - Would basically serve the same purpose as Rutgers from the Penn State point of view. While Syracuse has a much better tradition than Rutgers, they aren't the sexy pick right now. Rutgers is an up and coming program while Syracuse has struggled in recent years. Plus the Carrier Dome is just antiquated and boring.

Longshots - West Virginia and Louisville. Each would help branch the Big Ten into a new state, and West Virginia would serve as a decent PSU rival. But the markets there are small and not exactly what Delany is looking for with his new network.

Should be fun to follow and debate over the next year.

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Notre Dame

The solution here is pretty easy...Notre Dame should join the Big 10. They already have rivalries with damn near half the teams (Purdue, MSU, UM and PSU) and could build some new ones with OSU and the in-state and improving Indiana. Also, as far as recruiting has gone, Zook and Weis are already sniping at each other...cha-ching, another rivalry!! I'd say to make MSU and UM the "designated rivals" for ND. MSU and UM would then NOT be designated rivals to each other, but let's face facts...that hasn't been much of a rivalry anyhow. At least ND-Mich has been entertaining these last few years, with a decent amount of upsets.

Well now, there are 4 nonconference games, so ND could still get their 3 service academies AND USC, who's possibly their biggest rival. The only thing that stands in the way is that it just makes too much sense...oh, and the fact that ND is just too traditional (i.e. money grubbing). Well there ya have it, the answer is right there, even though we all know it will never come to fruition.

by Cpiritual27 on Jul 26, 2007 11:30 PM EDT 0 recs

Should Notre Dame join the Big Ten??????

The bottom line is that the University will do what is in the best interest of Notre Dame. If that means joining a conference we will do it. If not, we won't.

Penn State fans may argue that Notre Dame should join the Big Ten as it is in the best interest of football. And yet those same fans will argue from the other side of their face against renewing the Pitt rivalry with the comment that "Pitt needs Penn State more than Penn State needs Pitt". Well gentlemen, at this point the Big Ten wants Notre Dame more than Notre Dame wants the Big Ten. From my perspective, until that changes the Fightin' Irish will remain independent.

by Jerry on Jul 27, 2007 9:40 AM EDT up 0 recs

Notre Dame

Jerry, I think you are exactly right. The Big Ten wants Notre Dame bad. But Notre Dame wants to remain independent and go it alone. Notre Dame will do what is best for Notre Dame. I just hope for their sake they don't live to regret it. They are depending on the NBC contract to keep their athletic program afloat. I would not feel so comfortable putting my faith in a corporate entity.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Jul 27, 2007 10:11 AM EDT up 0 recs

ND and NBC

While it's a defined risk, I don't think the Notre Dame football program will fold if NBC would not renew it's contract. Trust me, the good Fathers at Notre Dame have a few pennies set aside for emergencies. That said, (and maybe it's my green colored glasses), I suspect that NBC will be very anxious to renew the contract based on incoming talent.

Put it this way, if they stuck with us during the Davies and Ty years, then they will definitely stick with us for Charlie and his gang.

I, selfishly, would love to see ND in the Big Ten, but again, I just don't see it happening.

by Jerry on Jul 27, 2007 10:21 AM EDT up 0 recs

ND Football

I think ND football will always be fine. But what about ND Women's basketball? Or soccer? Or volleyball? Notre Dame depends on that money for much more than just football. Football will be fine, but the other programs will suffer dearly.

On the flip side, joining a conference could boost ND's other athletic programs to a new level much like joining the Big Ten did for Penn State (sans men's basketball). It gives security in funding and scheduling these programs would not otherwise have. PSU had a proud independent tradition before joining the B10. Many PSU fans opposed giving that up, but now I bet 99% of the fan base wouldn't give up our B10 status for the world.

That's why I think ND has to look at the big picture when the Big Ten comes knocking again.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Jul 27, 2007 10:30 AM EDT up 0 recs

ND Football

Mike--

I hear you, but I am certain that the ND Administration has evaluated and continue to access these scenarios. The other sports competing via affiliation with the Big East are doing pretty well.

I'm not sure if you are aware, but funds from NBC and BCS bowls go into the University's general fund and do not fund athletics. So, ha-ha, I guess the risk we run is that tuitions may sky-rocket should we lose our NBC contract.

by Jerry on Jul 27, 2007 10:39 AM EDT up 0 recs

Wish List

I want Notre Dame in the conference so bad. I think it would take the Big Ten into a new level that competes with the SEC year in and year out for top conference and a national championship.

JoePa is my hero.

by psuphiman80 on Jul 26, 2007 11:33 PM EDT 0 recs

This Is Far Out But...

What about adding ND, Pitt, AND Rutgers making the League 14 strong, split into 2 divisions, add a cash cow called the Big 10 championship game, and ka-blam, a massive conf. that holds ALL the biggest media markets in the Northeast and midwest?

If ND shuts us down, no matter, replace them with WVU and effectively crush the Big East. That frees up more BCS births for the Boise States of the world and perhaps a 3rd for the Big 10 or SEC.

Ahhhh...yes that was a good power trip.

O and just for kicks, with the mounds of money we'd be sitting on, we build a Big 10 Championship City somewhere in the middle of Indiana with a 200,000 seat stadium for the Championship game, and the rest of the outdoor sports, and a state or the art arena for indoor sports.

O yeah, and maybe build an academic campiu where all the schools can send students to share ideas, etc..blah, blah, blah.

Anyone wonder why we get the delusionel tag? Its so unfair!

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...Put 2 and 2 Together!!!

by fugimaster24 on Jul 27, 2007 1:16 AM EDT 0 recs

O and

On a sane note, I've heard Mizzou mentioned as a possible suitor.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...Put 2 and 2 Together!!!

by fugimaster24 on Jul 27, 2007 1:16 AM EDT 0 recs

Division Structure?

So let's assume for a minute that we get a new team to come into the "Big Twelve East". The conference seems to break down along west/east lines, so here's what it would seem to shake out to: West: Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue East: PSU, OSU, Michigan, Michigan State, Notre Dame, Indiana Does that appeal to you? Note that any of the potential teams that could be added to the conference would end up in the East Division, since the natural geographic break occurs just east of West Lafayette. Frankly, as the football powers shake out right now, Wisconsin would appear to have the West Division locked up for years to come, with Iowa potentially sharing the title every once in a while. Meanwhile, you have 4 national powerhouses (counting PSU) in the East. Here's another possibility - how about north/south? Again, based on geographic position only, here's what you'd get (assuming ND joins): North: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Michigan, Northwestern, Notre Dame South: Iowa, PSU, Purdue, Illinois, Ohio State, Indiana Again - not exactly even divisions. You could conceivably cheat a bit and swap Notre Dame and Iowa to even it out a little... Any thoughts?

by rctbone2009 on Jul 27, 2007 9:44 AM EDT 0 recs

Conference Split

I honestly don't think you will see the conference split into two divisions. Most of the Big Ten coaches are against a championship game. More importantly, Michigan and Ohio State are against it. They have the big showcase game at the end of the season. Add a conference championship game and "The Game" becomes just another game. You will never see a conference championship game in the Big Ten for that reason, and without a conference championship game there is no reason to split the conference into divisions.

I think they will keep the conference whole and add a 9th regular season game to the schedule.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Jul 27, 2007 10:04 AM EDT up 0 recs

ND in Big Ten...

I think one reason for ND staying out of the Big Ten is due to their ego...they love have the NCAA write special rules just for them...i.e. if they are in the top 10, they have to go to a BCS game or else if they are 6-6 then they pretty much can choose any other game. Notre Dame is about tradition and I give you credit on that, but they also are about an ego and greed that is greater than any other institution in football.

September 8th can't come soon enough.

by Nick7 on Jul 27, 2007 9:49 AM EDT 0 recs

I'm not buying it....

Let me simplify it for you. Notre Dame (like any other institution) is obligated to take care of itself. If joining the Big Ten will be beneficial to the school than I guarantee you we're all over it like Charlie on a cheeseburger. If not, however, than why should we join?

Likewise, Notre Dame did not force the BCS to adopt the rules it did. The rules were made as ND is not affiliated with a conference and therefore an exception was made for their independent status. Should other independents have received the same exceptions? In my mind, sure. Likewise, why limit BCS berths to conference affiliation? Take the top rated BCS schools at year-end and give them the BCS bids. If the Big Ten has 6 top rated teams then congratulations, you all get BCS bids, if they have none then "too bad, so sad". The BCS is flawed, but it wasn't an arrangement that Notre Dame developed either.

I likewise can't wait for September 8. In all likelihood Penn State will avenge their 41-17 disappointment from last season, but regardless the Notre Dame faithful will be well represented and will proudly back their team while respecting their opponent.

by Jerry on Jul 27, 2007 10:08 AM EDT up 0 recs

Protected Rivalries?

If the Big 10 adds a 12th team, would there be a reorganization of B10 protected rivalries? I can't imagine the conference allowing teams to add a third rival, but this might provide PSU a chance to get out of the Battle for the Land Grant Trophy -- there are many teams that would be more beneficial to play than the Spartans, including Notre Dame or Syracuse (we could have The Battle for Interstate 81). In that scenario, MSU would maintain a second rival by starting one against this new team also.

No offense intended to Spartan fans, who I assume hate this rivalry as much as I do.

--
Adam Wolbach
Graduate Student
Computer Science Department
Carnegie Mellon University

by awolbach on Jul 27, 2007 1:33 PM EDT 0 recs

Notre Dame will never join the Big Ten

I will repeat this over and over again.

Notre Dame will never join the Big Ten and it has nothing to do with athletics. Northwestern is the biggest stem-cell research university in the nation along with the University of Chicago, which is an academic member of the Big Ten.

In order to join the Big Ten, a school must agree to research funding sharing.

Tell me what Catholic School will divide research dollars for Stem Cell research...

Notre Dame will never join the Big Ten, period. They'll join the Big East in 2011.

by stonewall435 on Jul 27, 2007 3:13 PM EDT 0 recs

BC or St. Johns?

BC and St. Johns are in conferences and I have to imagine the schools in their conferences have some sort of stem cell research ongoing.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Jul 27, 2007 5:24 PM EDT 0 recs

Do those conferences...

...have academic and revenue sharing agreements similar to those of the Big Ten?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_Institutional_Cooperation

by stonewall435 on Jul 27, 2007 5:34 PM EDT 0 recs

I see the ACC has some sort of similar

...agreement.

However, it may not be as inclusive as the Big Ten's.

by stonewall435 on Jul 27, 2007 5:38 PM EDT 0 recs

Wow, you PSU guys seem somewhat intelligent...

Anyway, I'm a Pitt alum and would love to see the Panthers move to the Big Ten. Despite its dominance over the last several years in men's basketball, Pitt would be better served -- in an overall sense -- by the Big Ten. Academically, Pitt is on par with the current membership. It just makes too much sense. Let's hope Pitt is it!

by yander on Jul 27, 2007 6:42 PM EDT 0 recs

I was a bit surprised.........

I graduated from Allegheny College, so I have no true skin in this......but I was initially suspect of your statement "Academically, Pitt is on par with the current membership". I always thought Pitt was more renown for its graduate programs than its undergraduate program. But USN&WR has Pitt right there with Ohio State. Then I thought I could pick on Pitt's graduation rate for football and basketball players, but the NCAA GSR report has their football and men's bb teams graduating at a rate fairly consistent with most of the BIG 10 programs. I guess a bit has changed in the last 17 years since I was looking at undergraduate programs :)

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Jul 27, 2007 9:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

Nobody's ever picked on Pitt for their academics

Nobody with a brain, at least. Joining the Big Ten would be HUGE for Pitt. They'd lose nothing in basketball -- in fact, they'd probably be a top two or three program every year in that conference.

For football, how many of those Empty Yellow Seats would be filled if the opponents were Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, and Wisconsin instead of Cincinnati, South Florida, and UConn? Hell, even if the stadium was packed with opposing fans (which it would be), the tickets are getting sold!

Of course, Pitt would get absolutely stomped on a weekly basis, but it would help their program in the long-term.

-- Run Up The Score http://runupthescore.wordpress.com

by Run Up The Score on Jul 29, 2007 11:07 AM EDT 0 recs

Nice........

Idiotic responses like yours may help account for the same 6 people posting over and over on this site. I was actually complimenting Pitt.

For the record, I was admitted to Allegheny College, Case Western Reserve, and CMU (Carnegie Mellon, not Central Michigan) so I have a brain. The kids in my high school that went to Pitt weren't in the same GPA percentile as those that chose PSU Main. I always knew Pitt had great Medical, Dental, and Philosphy Graduate Schools, but never heard much buzz about their undergraduate. And based on my trips to Pitt to visit friends, I wasn't impressed, so I guess I was wrong.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Jul 31, 2007 1:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

Don't forget about the State of Florida (USF)

The BCS gets tweaked in an effort to improve; any thought of tweaking the Big 10 + 1 Conference rules that member schools must border neighboring states to include a school in Florida (University of South Florida). Here are the advantages: new member of the Big East, large school in the #13 media market (Tampa Bay), exposes the Big 10 to the fertile Florida recruiting base, large Big 10 alumni base and prime area to stage December conference championship game (Raymond James Stadium. Win-win situation.

by BunnyMack on Jul 30, 2007 6:19 PM EDT 0 recs