Nitt Picks Can't Get No Respect!
Some notes and quotes from around these internets about Saturday's big game.
Chris Wells is putting on his "he hate me" jersey and playing the old no one believes in us card.
"I definitely feel we're underdogs," Wells said. "We've not been producing up to the expectations of the media or whoever it may be. A lot of people are thinking we're not a great football team."
Well, you are underdogs, actually. Two and a half points. An, no, you haven't been producing up to the expectations of "whoever". We talked about it yesterday, but if you want to prevent people from claiming you aren't a great football team, score an offensive touchdown against Purdue.
The Post-Gazette has a post-October observation:
Long before the season began, many were predicting a Red October for Penn State.The gloomy forecast was based on the Nittany Lions' past performances against Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio State and the fact that the Lions had to play those three traditional Big Ten powers during a three-week stretch.
Penn State was a combined 5-16 against that trio since 2000.

But now with Penn State rolling though October, winning their Illinois-Michigan "gauntlet" games by an average of 24 points, November is actually shaping up to be a tougher month (in fact, according to this arbitrary list, all four of the teams that preceded this weekend's showdown are part of the Big Ten's four biggest disappointments). Iowa has found a running back in Shonn Greene and appears to have fixed their offensive woes. Then, the Land Grant Rivalry might end up being Penn State's second biggest game, as MSU has shown that they are probably one of the top three teams in the league.
It wouldn't be a big game in the Big Ten without reporters using stats from 1993 to prove the Nittany Lions are doomed this Saturday:
Penn State's 0-7 record here is only part of the story, however. Whereas the eight games between the schools in Penn State's Beaver Stadium have been competitive -- five decided by seven points or fewer and three wins by the Buckeyes -- the average score of the games in Ohio Stadium is 28-7. Penn State has not scored more than 10 points in any of them.
Penn State had combined for six points in their last two visits to Madison: how'd that work out for the Badgers? This is a different team, in fact every season every team is different, so bringing up statistical trends like that are, well, dumb.
This kind of stuff isn't going away, though. In fact, twenty bucks says someone on the Gameday set uses this exact same line on air in Columbus.
TINNOMJ detailed this crap already, so on most accounts I'll defer to him. One thing to emphasize, though:
What bothers me about Penn State's current success is that Paterno's not the sole reason for it. Rather, it's his staff and the tradition of the program that have the Nittany Lions in the running for another national title, and Paterno seeking his eighth undefeated season since 1966.
Paterno built the tradition, so for him to ride his own coat-tales is hardly a criminal action. In fact, I think that's called earning respect and reaping the rewards. Also, I'm pretty sure a statement like "[the head coach] is not the sole reason for [recent success]" applies to every team in every sports. Why does Penn State's variety bother you so much?
The Trans-World News is showing off some of their geography skills, a story in which they set up the old hero-faces-old-hometown routine:
Pryor, the nation's top high school player last year, had arguably the most-hyped recruiting process in recent history and became a YouTube sensation. His final list included Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State.After selecting OSU, it is easy to see why this rivalry has an added edge to it as the Buckeyes took Pryor from Jeannette, a suburb of Pittsburgh which is 120 miles away from State College.
Um, 120=hometown? What's really a shame is that they could have gotten a double whammy out of this one. Clark's hometown of Youngstown is only 170 miles from Columbus.
To end on a positive note, guess who's rooting for Penn State this weekend? Everyone.
So it will have nothing to do with sympathy or well-wishing for Joe Paterno's swan song next week when an entire nation aligns itself with Penn State in Columbus for what amounts to the de facto Big Ten Championship Game. Lion love will be purely self-interested: please don't make us consider these guys for another championship.[...]
So no pressure or anything, Lions, but suddenly a Buckeye-weary nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
So it's love for all the wrong reasons, but at this point I'll take it.
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Comments
One other stupid thing about listing our performance in Columbus
I had pointed out in another thread that before we joined the Big 10 we were 5-1 in Columbus.
Another thing to point out is that, like you said, every year is a different team. Nearly much all the years we’ve fielded “championship caliber” teams, or at least REALLY GOOD teams, the games against OSU were at Beaver Stadium. I think the only “really good” teams we fielded in Ohio Stadium were in 1993, 1996, and 2002. During those 3 years, OSU only lost 2 games (and tied 1), and won the BCS NC game one of those years.
by The JuggerNitt on Oct 22, 2008 10:59 AM EDT 0 recs
I detest "past performance" comparisons.
Why have we lost in Columbus? They’ve been good and we’ve been not so good every time there is a game in the Shoe. Simple. I think 1996 was the only time I think you could argue we were the better team. This Penn State team is not the 2004 team, the 1993 team, or any other team. They should beat Ohio State. It is unrelated to any other team or past performance.
As long as we’re making unrelated comparisons to past performance, we should promote the fact that Penn State has never lost a game on the road with Mark Wedderburn on the team. I hope the media writes an article about how Wedderburn has inspired this team to greatness.
by Cairo on Oct 22, 2008 11:15 AM EDT 0 recs
I thought it was obvious the contributions Wedderburn has made
I guess I was just taking him for granted, though.
by The JuggerNitt on
Oct 22, 2008 11:23 AM EDT
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Also, since we are getting it all out there
PSU has won at the shoe: 1912, 1956, 1963, 1964, and 1978.
Those games are as relevant as any from the ’90s.
Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries
by Kevin HD on Oct 22, 2008 11:30 AM EDT 0 recs
Relevance of the past
Kevin, I’m still wondering about this….I get the ’it’s different kids’ argument, but with the same head coach and some same members of the coaching staff, I’d have to say that noting recent performance is not completely irrelevant. Especially if it’s similar coaching staffs and the performance in question has to do with preparing your team for a road visit to a rival powerhouse.
We could ask John Cooper if his teams’ crippling losses to Michigan in ’93, ’95 & ’96 were at all relevant to his preparation of his 1999 & 2000 teams.
Or, if the arrival of infant Mark Wedderburn in his neighboring state affected it in some way ;)
pax et amor
by jtothep on
Oct 22, 2008 12:03 PM EDT
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Well, a very small bit maybe.
It does matter in some degree, but for every ‘rule’ there is an exception, and I still maintain the concept of being “out-coached” is a fickle one and totally blown out of proportion by the fans and media. So maybe, since 2002, Tressel has had the upper hand, but a Paterno v Tressel matchup doesn’t have anything to do with how Paterno performed against Cooper (4 of the 7 losses cited in that quote above). And to go even further, as some of you have said, OSU has simply had a much better team as of late; the 2004 and 2006 games had nothing to do with coaching tendencies.
Mark Wedderburn, on the other hand, has been under-rated as a cause and his impact should be researched further.
Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries
by Kevin HD on
Oct 22, 2008 12:27 PM EDT
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Outcoaching as Fickle Concept
I’ll consider this some more as the season goes on….Over the past two years I have been giving it more weight than I had in years past….
We may have to look at the ecosystem surrounding Wedderburn’s hometown of Springfield. If Homer Simpson runs a nuclear plant nearby, we may be onto something bigger.
pax et amor
by jtothep on
Oct 22, 2008 12:34 PM EDT
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And about Dr. Saturday's comments
I am not going to suggest that the refs could ever act in a(n intentionally) biased way, and who knows, the Big 10 still might want its darling OSU on top, but I wonder if there will be any fishy calls in our favor during this game for just the reason Dr. Saturday (and other pieces I’ve read elsewhere) suggest. There are all these reports of “OSU and the also-rans” and how no one respects OSU after the last 2 NC games.
I’m not saying that I’d WANT a victory because of shady officiating, and hopefully Penn State can score often and put so many points between them and OSU that it won’t matter, but I do wonder, if the game comes down to the line, if some close calls do just go our way.
by The JuggerNitt on Oct 22, 2008 11:32 AM EDT 0 recs
Not Having.......
a conference title game hurts the perception of the conference and its eventual winner.
Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.
by ech2os on Oct 22, 2008 12:14 PM EDT 0 recs
yeah but would it really solve anything?
We have 11 teams and there is almost never a doubt about who the “champion” is. OSU has had it locked up the past two years, and Penn State beat Ohio State in 2005. This season to shape up the same way. 2002 is the only season in the last 10 years I can remember where a CCG would have helped, with OSU and Iowa both going undefeated and not playing eachother. If the CCG ends up being a rematch of a regular season game then I hate it.
Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries
by Kevin HD on
Oct 22, 2008 12:21 PM EDT
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Here in ACC land
I get bombarded with “Your conference needs a championship game” every week. For some reason, people from conferences that have championship games think that it’s the way to go. There are just as many arguments for it as there are against it. I think there are a handful of things the league could do to help clarify the conference standings without adding a championship. For every season where two teams go undefeated and don’t face each other in Big Ten play, there is a season in another conference where a team with two conference losses wins the title. I don’t care if you’re LSU. If you drop two in conference play, you shouldn’t have another shot at winning the league title.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
by 06Lion on
Oct 22, 2008 12:31 PM EDT
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Conference Championship
Play all the friggin teams in your division, that is the only real way to settle it. Imagine if Florida and LSU meet up again in the SEC Championship and Florida wins. They are both 1-1 against each other, but the second game means more? BS.
We have 11 teams, that’s 10 games, play 3 OOC and add one extra game on to the end of the year just like the other conferences do for rivalry / championship games. Or don’t, play two OOC games. Hell that would cut back on the cream-puff scheduling anyway, AND it would benefit every one in strength of schedule.
It’s funny how the obvious solution is often overlooked. The SEC and Big 12 systems are just as messed up as the Big 10.
by millzners on
Oct 22, 2008 12:38 PM EDT
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You know what's dumb about a Conference Championship game?
Oklahoma. They lost to Texas who is in their conference division, so for them to make their conference championship game they will need Texas to drop two games because Texas now owns the head-to-head tie breaker. But because they are still ranked so high they could win out and end up being ranked #2 and go to the BCS championship game without even playing in their conference championship game. Fail.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on
Oct 22, 2008 12:37 PM EDT
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That's highly unlikely...
and they shouldn’t be eligible for the national championship if they don’t win their conference. If Oklahoma somehow goes to the national championship game without being the Big 12 champion, that will simply underscore the insanity of the whole system and be yet another reason for a national playoff.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
by spakajewia on
Oct 22, 2008 12:44 PM EDT
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It already happened
Oklahoma in 2003, lost the Big XII title game, still went to the championship game.
To piggyback on Mike’s hypothetical, the other problem is divisional inequality. This year the Big XII south is stacked (OK, OK St., Texas, Texas Tech), while the north is fairly average (Kansas, Mizzou, Nebraska). Texas and Oklahoma are likely to be the best two teams in that conference come the end of the season, but they have no chance of meeting up in the conference championship game. It’s dumb. Who’s excited for a Texas-Kansas matchup, or a Texas-Mizzou rematch?
by Kunk on
Oct 22, 2008 12:52 PM EDT
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I was just typing this
Kansas State 35
Oklahoma 7
Then OU was still able to keep USC out of the BCS MNC, so the Trojans beat a crappy Michigan team and won the AP MNC anyway.
Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries
by Kevin HD on
Oct 22, 2008 12:58 PM EDT
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you shouldn't have mentioned fail

It is great to not have a conference championship, it is going to give the B10 a much better shot at the MNC game than the conferences with championship games. The only good thing about every conference having a championship game is that it could evolve into a playoff.
I don't know, Mello Yello is pretty awful. What's the worst that could happen?
by psu on
Oct 22, 2008 12:49 PM EDT
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Well, the moon does look so tiny all the way up there.....
by Screen Name 20 on
Oct 22, 2008 1:18 PM EDT
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WAIT A MINUTE!
She took the 50/50 and STILL got it wrong. That’s really unfortunate.
"A setback is just a set up for a comeback." -Drew Brees
by kajpsu on
Oct 22, 2008 10:49 PM EDT
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Oh my God...
That is one of the most awful things evah… what a freakin moron
If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.
by TheMightyErik on
Oct 24, 2008 8:13 PM EDT
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agreed
a championship game only makes sense if the big ten gets another school and they split the league into two, six team divisions, in which each school plays the same five schools every year (in their division) and three of the six from the other division. In that scenario, there’s a 22% chance that the two best teams won’t have played one another. Although, I guess by that logic, there’s right now a 20% chance that the two best teams play each other.
Those figures are theortical, however, and don’t take into account that almost always one of OSU, PSU and Michigan are going to be in the hunt, and OSU plays PSU and UofM every year the way the system’s set up now.
The Big Ten’s taken lots of flack this year, but generally, not having a championship game has served the conference well: that’s one reason why it’s easier for a team to go through their regular season schedule undefeated. I think that, so long as we remain the big 11, the best approach is to try playing a tougher out of conference schedule, rather than adding a championship game.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
by spakajewia on
Oct 22, 2008 12:41 PM EDT
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my numbers were wrong
right now, it’s a 20% chance the two top teams don’t play; in a 12 team conference as described, there’s a 27% chance.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
by spakajewia on
Oct 22, 2008 12:46 PM EDT
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How about a tiebreaker game, when needed
Should two teams go undefeated or have 1-loss games (assuming the loss was not to the other team in question) have a tie-breaker game in early December for the outright Big 10 Championship. I’m sure there are tons of holes in this idea as I haven’t thought it completely through, but it sure sounds like a simple way to resolve the problem.
by lmrlion on
Oct 22, 2008 1:06 PM EDT
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wait a minute
in the system you proposed, each team plays every other team in their 6-team division (5 games), and 3 teams from the other division. The best team from each division plays in the conf. championship.
There are two possibilities: The two best teams in the conference are either in the same division, or not. Either way, they would play each other with a conference championship, right? Maybe I’m missing something.
by jimbo2psu on
Oct 22, 2008 3:19 PM EDT
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i was saying that given a 12 team league
with two divisions, there’s a 27% chance 3/11 that the two best teams don’t play each other before a championship game.
Obvi, if there’s a championship game than the two top teams always play.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
by spakajewia on
Oct 22, 2008 4:33 PM EDT
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Nitpickery....
There have been 7 ties for the Big Ten title since Penn State joined the conference in 1993.
1993 – Ohio State and Wisconsin (and they actually tied on the field, too)
1996 – Northwestern and Ohio State (did not play)
1998 – Michigan, Ohio State and Wisconsin (Ohio State beat both Michigan and Wisconsin, but lost to Michigan State; Michigan and Wisconsin did not play, so Ohio State would win a standard tiebreaker)
2000 – Michigan, Northwestern, and Purdue (Michigan lost to both Northwestern and Purdue; Purdue beat Northwestern, so Purdue would win a standard tiebreaker)
2002 – Iowa and Ohio State did not play
2004 – Iowa and Michigan tied, but Michigan won head-to-head
2005 – Ohio State and Penn State tied, but Penn State won head-to-head
So you’ve had two ties between teams that did not play in the last 15 years, and one three-way tie involving two teams that did not play (though they both lost to the third team).
As a Syracuse fan, it’s not surprising that what I think is that Penn State should be in the Big East (even if you did just trash us in the Dome), and then the Big Ten should play a Pac 10-style 9-game round-robin schedule….
by drothgery on
Oct 22, 2008 7:04 PM EDT
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More on Crappy Journalism
It’s beating a dead horse, but this horse is really ugly:
1) The assertion that Joe can only effectively coach from the sideline.
I think the counter-argument holds more water. So he can’t get in anyone’s face on the sideline. But he is now connected to a headset, hearing everything the other coaches are saying. On the sideline, he uses McQueary as his mouthpiece.
2) The assertion that Joe has gotten too much credit.
If anything, this is a product of the lazy media that this writer is a part of. A team does well, and the easy thing to do is credit the coach. The opposite is true if a team plays poorly. Most sane, rational fans realize that one guy cannot control every last detail of a program, but it gets trotted out by tired newspaper journalists. Then when one guy decides to get his ‘contrarian’ views going, he comes off looking like an idiot.
3) The assertion that TRADITION has helped propel PSU back to this point.
Really, Howie Beardsley? Really? So, here are some of the reasons for our successful 2008 campaign: plain uniforms, black shoes, “we are penn state” chants, the ’82 and ’86 national championships, and drum major somersaults.
by Kunk on Oct 22, 2008 12:36 PM EDT 0 recs
JoePa ineffectiveness
I was getting a lot of crap from my coworkers about Joe being in the box. They were saying that he doesn’t do anything on a daily basis operationally and that he’s just a figurehead.
That’s when I forwarded them the Youtube link of spring practices, showing Joe running all over the practice field and getting in linemen’s faces. Haven’t heard a peep since.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
by 06Lion on
Oct 22, 2008 12:40 PM EDT
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Is this the video you are talking about
or is there another?
by The JuggerNitt on
Oct 22, 2008 1:33 PM EDT
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Yep
Thats the one.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
by 06Lion on
Oct 22, 2008 2:23 PM EDT
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03 USC
Then OU was still able to keep USC out of the BCS MNC, so the Trojans beat a crappy Michigan team and won the AP MNC anyway.
The potential difference between us and 03 USC is that the Trojans didn’t go undefeated. They lost at Cal in OT that year. I believe that, if we win out and Texas and Bama lose, which one of them will, in my opinion, then we are in Miami for the NCG.
by PABroncofan on Oct 22, 2008 2:11 PM EDT 0 recs











