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In Defense of Statistics: Go Florida State!

The Only Time You're Allowed to Root for Bobby Bowden

Right now, Penn State and Alabama are close enough in the human polls that the statistical polls - which have Alabama a universal #2 and Penn State a universal #3 - are the deciding factor between the two. Switch the statistical ranking portion for the two teams, and Penn State comes out ahead.

People around the country are saying "there's no way that would happen." Don't believe them - they're wrong. The Big Ten is not nearly as weak as people tend to claim, but probably more importantly, the SEC is not nearly as strong as people tend to think. The Big 12 is pretty clearly the premier conference this year, and so I won't even suggest that Penn State could end up ranked over Texas due to weird flukes. Won't happen.

But it is possible for Penn State to end up ranked over Alabama, but it will require a few things to happen - the combination of all of which is probably unlikely, but possible.

Remember one very important thing: statistical polls have no inertia (Billingsley omitted for insanity reasons). Alabama does not have to lose to move down - what has to happen is that their opponents have to lose. So, I mentioned in the first installment of IDS that good teams are pinned most by their best wins. So, how can we imagine Alabama's best wins eroding? Mainly by eroding the SEC as a whole, since Alabama's strength (much like any BCS team) is in the conference's strength. But there are a few teams Alabama's disconnected to.

This is just one possibility. Hopefully you can see the pattern:

  1. Georgia losing to Florida.
  2. Florida State beating Florida.
  3. Vanderbilt beating Kentucky.
  4. Georgia Tech beating Georgia.

Florida State's actually very important, since Florida's the most likely opponent for Alabama. One other thing you might note here: all of these wins are plausible. I'm not suggesting the Citadel beat Florida or something stupid. Georgia Tech is a borderline Top 25 team, FSU is a Top 25 team, Vanderbilt and Kentucky are about the same, and Georgia/Florida are both Top 25 teams.

But in addition to that, we can also boost Penn State's wins and possible future wins:

  1. Oregon State beating Oregon and Cal: this would put them in the Top 25, and suddenly our out-of-conference schedule is much stronger than Alabama's.
  2. Ohio State winning out: Northwestern is still a decent team, and winning out would likely put them in the top 10.
  3. Michigan State winning out (minus the obvious): they won't really move up, but losing to Wisconsin or Purdue would just pull them down to about that level, and that wouldn't help.

The pattern's straightforward: you want Alabama's opponents to lose to teams that Alabama doesn't play, and you want Penn State's opponents to beat teams that Penn State hasn't played.

Colley's rankings have this awesome little script which shows movement of the rankings based on hypotheticals that I wish every ranking system had. Keep in mind that Colley's system will probably tend to show the least movement of any of the rankings for an unbeaten, so moving us above Alabama in Colley's rankings probably moves us above them in all of them.

It's not really possible to get Penn State over Alabama (with an equal number of games won for Alabama/Penn State) with just their limit of 5 inserted games, but the combination of all of the above happening probably should do it - probably sprinkled with LSU losing somewhere else again.

If a few completely bizarre results happened in the SEC - Vandy ending up in the SEC Championship Game or something - that's definitely enough.

But all these results are plausible, and in the end, this isn't gerrymandering or some weird magic formula. Alabama's ranking is built on its opponents. If they go down, so should Alabama.

The Myth of a Weak Schedule

Probably the most common thing that you've heard this week is that Penn State's played a weak schedule compared to those above them. In Texas's case, that's true. Texas is having an insane year, and if they keep winning, you can't make any argument.

But Penn State vs. Alabama? According to most of the statistical ranking systems, Penn State's strength of schedule is just behind Alabama:

  • Colley: PSU #81, Alabama #70
  • Sagarin (*): PSU ~70, Alabama ~60
  • Massey: PSU #70, Alabama #44
  • Anderson-Hester: PSU #46, Alabama #33

(*: estimated from ELO-CHESS ratings only)

People simply haven't noticed the fact that the SEC is much weaker this year than last (more a statement of how good they were previously), and therefore also haven't noticed Alabama's rapidly weakening schedule. Auburn started off as a preseason #10 - Colley has them currently at #72. Also, Alabama's early big OOC win - Clemson - now looks like garbage, as Clemson, a preseason #9, is ranked #80 by Colley.

And for all the people complaining that Penn State played Coastal Carolina:

Penn State out of conference opponents:

  • Oregon State, #30 AP, #43/17/27/25 in Colley/Sagarin/Wolfe/Massey
  • Syracuse, NR AP, #104/112/121/125
  • Temple, NR AP, #83/87/80/98
  • Coastal Carolina, NR AP, NA/178/196/217

Alabama out of conference opponents:

  • Clemson, NR AP #80/74/88/84
  • Western Kentucky, NR AP #102/123/108/124
  • Tulane, NR AP #103/129/110/136
  • Arkansas State, NR AP #90/#106/#95/126.

Yes, we played Coastal Carolina. So what. Everyone plays cupcakes. Some of them are in Division IAA. Some are not. All of them are a functional "bye" week for the teams in question, unless you're Michigan (zing! hey guys, two in a row, you gotta expect some ribbing).

Please join me in telling the national media to go stuff themselves when it comes to scheduling cupcakes. We. Don't. Care. No one thinks that Texas is better than Penn State because we played Coastal Carolina and they get to play Baylor. We ignore those games. Statistical rankings ignore those games. So should the national media's criticism.

Home-field advantage

In the first IDS, I explained the basic way that rating systems work:

  1. Come up with a game-output function, which takes the rating of two teams A and B, and outputs the probability that A will beat B
  2. Find the ratings which maximize the combined probability (given by the game-output function) of all of the results of the season.

If you read Colley's mathematical description, it'll sound a lot different, but it's the same (For the mathematically inclined, it's the difference between a maximum likelihood and a chi-squared approach. The two end up the same so long as the distributions are ~normal-ish, which is why Colley's approach differs the most when there's a bunch of undefeated teams). Colley doesn't include HFA, because it's not easy to do in his approach.

So how do we include home-field advantage in this? Easy. You modify the game-output function and give a boost in probability to the home team, or reduce the probability of the visiting team. All of the rating systems save Colley include HFA, but you may notice a problem: how do you decide how much of a boost to give? Well, the answer is that you do it the same way that you find the ratings - find the value that explains the year's results the best.

The only problem with this is relatively obvious: as far as I know, all of the statistical ranking systems use the same HFA for all teams. That means that going to Penn State, with 110,000 screaming fans, lowers your chances just as much as going to Indiana, with a guy with a hand-puppet. There's no real way to fix this without biasing the results against a team based on historical evidence (which isn't really in the spirit of rating a season), so it's just a limitation.

Which means, again - just like with margin of victory, it's up to the human voters to recognize certain environments as harder to win in than others.

4 recs | Comment 37 comments

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Thanks for the insight

…now if only you could get a job with ESPiN explaining statistical ranking systems to the great unwashed.

Oh wait- statistics are ‘boring’ and not nearly as much of a ratings draw as watching a couple of chimps throw stool at each other in an effort to assert their team’s superiority.

There is a tractor in the parking lot, West Virginia license EIEIO. Your lights are on.

by leeharvey418 on Oct 28, 2008 8:27 AM EDT   0 recs

Michigan State winning out.

I think that would negatively affect our computer rankings since that would involve PSU losing to them.

by Cairo on Oct 28, 2008 10:36 AM EDT   0 recs

Yeah, in an original draft I had “except for the obvious, of course,” and I apparently left it out of this one. Whoops.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Oct 28, 2008 1:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Penn State Doesn't Jump an Undefeated 'Bama

I’m one of those people who are saying “there’s no way that would happen.”

I appreciate the analysis and I like the new IDS pieces, but I think there is a major flaw in one of your assumptions. The whole argument is based off of the fact that “Right now, Penn State and Alabama are close enough in the human polls that the statistical polls . . . are the deciding factor between the two.” That’s true, but if ’Bama keeps on winning, they will widen the gap with PSU. Remember that ’Bama plays TWO games after the Penn State season is over- against their rival (the OSU-Mich of the SEC), and against a highly ranked team (top ten in all likelihood) for the SEC crown. Even if PSU win their last 3 games convincingly and keeps it tight, ’Bama winning those two games, without PSU having the opportunity to keep pace, will widen the gap and guarantee a #2 spot in the BCS.

That being said, I still think that if PSU keeps on winning it’ll all work out. There’s too much parity for 3 undefeated teams in BCS conferences, right?

by The IC Lion on Oct 28, 2008 10:55 AM EDT   0 recs

I hope.

I too think Bama will gain a lot of steam if the situation is an undefeated PSU team at home watching Bama play two more games. But, their rivalry game is against a pretty bad Auburn team (#71 in JS, 4-4 with another loss to UGA waiting down the road). If that one is close it could actually hurt them. The kicker will be a Bama win over either UGA or UF. I’m not sure that will happen, though.

by Kevin HD on Oct 28, 2008 12:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That’s true, but if ’Bama keeps on winning, they will widen the gap with PSU.

No, they won’t. Poll inertia. The reason that Alabama is close to PSU is because some teams have Penn State above Alabama. If Penn State keeps winning, they won’t jump Alabama over Penn State.

Especially if the SEC has the out-of-conference failures I’m suggesting.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Oct 28, 2008 1:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

and by “teams” I mean “voters.”

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Oct 28, 2008 1:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why Wouldn't Pollsters Jump 'Bama Over PSU. . .

In the last two weeks when PSU is sitting idle and ’Bama’s coming up with big wins (or win, thanks for sucking Auburn)? More than 10 voters jumped PSU past the Tide last week when they struggled with Ole Miss. Who’s to say the opposite can’t happen in November?

I guess the real question I have is- How strong is “poll inertia,” or how close is “close enough” in the human polls to have the statistical polls be the deciding factor?

by The IC Lion on Oct 28, 2008 2:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Huge

Computer rankings are proportioned so that every spot in the polls is a .04 point drop from the last. The #1 team has 1.00 points, the #2 has 0.96. The human polls are a ratio of voter preferences, so that if everyone votes a team #1 they have 1.00, everyone votes a team #2 they have 0.96, and so on. Of course, not everyone agress so it’s a ratio of the total votes. If 50% of the voters vote a team #2 and 50% #3, that means they get 0.98 points.

What does this mean? Let’s take this theoretical example.

Everyone in the Coaches Poll votes Bama #2 and PSU #3

113 of the 114 voters in the Harris Poll votes Bama #2 and PSU #3. The one stray voter swaps the teams.

The Computers have PSU 2/2/2/3 and Bama 3/3/3/2

Penn State would be ranked #2 in the BCS standings.

by Cairo on Oct 28, 2008 2:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Auburn won't be a big win

Everyone’s recognized the suckfest that is Auburn by this point, thanks to the debacle earlier. It’s entirely possible that Auburn might be out of the bowl picture by then.

Note the statistical rankings: Auburn is about as impressive as Temple right now.

“how close is "close enough" in the human polls to have the statistical polls be the deciding factor?”

The polls would pretty much have to keep pace with where they are right now. I think that’s probably pretty likely to be true. One thing I hope is that the media keeps hyping Oregon State, and Oregon State keeps winning. If Oregon State wins out, they are the PAC-10 champions, and are in the Rose Bowl.

That, in, and of, itself, would probably be way more than enough to push us into the NC game.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Oct 28, 2008 3:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I swear to god

if we end up playing the Beavers again in the Rose Bowl I’m gonna puke!

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on Oct 29, 2008 6:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"IDS"

I love it! Bbdub rockin his own acronym to his own thematic posts. Great stuff!

Go F$U!

pax et amor

by jtothep on Oct 28, 2008 1:29 PM EDT   0 recs

SOS Ranking

Should we be looking at the SOS number and not the ranking? Sagarin’s SOS numbers:

Southern Cal 76.05
Texas 73.77
Oklahoma 70.83
Oklahoma State 70.31
Alabama 69.99
Iowa (!) 69.74
Penn State 69.05
Arizona 68.37
Texas Tech 66.34
TCU 64.89
Ball State 61.89
Arkansas State 55.43

I don’t know the basis behind the quantifications, but it seems that being 1.78 points behind Oklahoma means that they have “similar” strengths of schedule given the logjam in the middle. Perhaps you could offer some clarification as to what is similar and dissimilar.

by Cairo on Oct 28, 2008 2:00 PM EDT   0 recs

Strength-of-schedule is just the average rating of all opponents. For Sagarin, it’s a little deceiving, because it’s the average of the RATING numbers, not the ELO-CHESS numbers. This means it’s half non-margin of victory, half margin-of-victory (think of it as the poor man’s BCS ranking).

A ratings margin of 1.78 points is between 1 and 5 spots in the ranking – which means that every one of Oklahoma’s opponents, on average, between 1-5 spots better than Penn State’s. That’s not that big a margin, though, because again, it’s not static. One team dropping a bad game would probably cut that in half or more.

Texas’s margin is, uh, quite a bit more.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Oct 28, 2008 2:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I see

So PSU’s is currently #1 on margin of victory on the basis of scoring offense per game-scoring defense per game. Are teams below them ranked statically (i.e., x points for PSU, x-y points for #2, x-2y for #3 etc.) or ranked proportionally to the margin of victory (i.e., a team that has a 15 point average margin of victory has half the points of a team that has a 30 point avg margin of victory)?

by Cairo on Oct 28, 2008 2:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Not sure which “rank” you’re talking about here. Sagarin’s PREDICTOR is a maximum-likelihood ranking which uses a simple margin-of-victory game output function to calculate a number which is something like “percentage of games that the winning team would win if the game were replayed.” So if the margin of victory is 1 point, it’d give something like “0.51”, because it’s basically a tie.

I don’t know that for a fact, because Sagarin doesn’t put details anywhere, but based on the distribution of teams, it’s probably correct. There’s a noticeable bias towards fast-paced and high-scoring offenses – that is, a 20-6 victory is the same as a 38-24 victory.

(Incidentally, you can also see why margin-of-victory is a bad thing to use in a poll for ranking resumes here: by necessity, small margins have to produce basically the same as a tie – which means that the value of a team winning, in this case, is near zero.)

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Oct 28, 2008 2:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I still think I'm gonna root against FSU every chance I get

and just cross my fingers and hope Alabama or (even more hopefully) Texas loses one (or more).

by The JuggerNitt on Oct 28, 2008 2:02 PM EDT   0 recs

But isn't it appropriate...

Isn’t it appropriate – and, in some sense, an insult – to only root for a team when it’s actually in your own interest?

Think of it:
PSU Fan: “Yeah, Go FSU! Woo!”
(FSU wins)
FSU Fan: “Hey, man, thanks for the support. Guess you’re not so bad.”
PSU Fan: “Not really. Just wanted you to win so we could get into the National Championship game. Hope you choke again in the BCS bowl!”

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Oct 28, 2008 6:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

The minutia of details like these get blown up to seem like they’re actually important to our success. F FSU/F Bobby/F the dadgum ‘Noles. And that ain’t gonna change anytime soon.

by blogue20 on Oct 29, 2008 9:27 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Me too

Just thinking about rooting for Bowden even a single time makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

Ohio State screwed our (Big Ten’s) pooch the last 2 years, and the only way we have a shot is winning out, and Bama and/or Texas losing. Period.

I have hope that LSU puts it all together for just 1 game (Bama) in their Saban-the-Traitor death match. If not them, then the SEC CG.

I’m rooting like hell for Texaz Tek, too. What the hell – it could happen.

'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'

by Pete the Streak on Oct 28, 2008 2:27 PM EDT   0 recs

Well, put yourself in Florida State's shoes.

Wait… bad choice of words…

Ugh. I can’t stand the thought of rooting for Free $hoes U.

by Cairo on Oct 28, 2008 2:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Texas Tech

The issue with Texas Tech is that if they win out, they’re as strong a #1 as Texas was. The best option is Florida beating Alabama, in terms of an upset of an undefeated team.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Oct 28, 2008 3:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

True, but

I could see Texas Tech getting up for 1 home game against a #1 ranked Texas, but I really can’t see them winning out the rest of the way. They still have OK St., Oklahoma and the CCG. I’m rooting for them this weekend against Texas, after that screw them.

by jimbo2psu on Oct 28, 2008 11:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm rooting for Texas all the way

Its a gamble, because thats putting all our eggs in one basket, that basket being a Bama loss. But I’m fairly certain they’ll get beat. I want Texas to be 13-0 and face them in the MNC Legitimate NC. Can you imagine the size of the underdog we’ll be?? Enormous. Which would be simply perfect. As one guy said yesterday on CFN/Scout (Fiutak I believe), “Do you think for one minute a 13-0 Texas would be the least bit worried about Penn State?”. I certainly hope they wouldn’t be. The bigger they are, the harder they fall….

Not to mention – Colt McCoy would completely freak out when he sees grass stains on his pretty burnt orange jersey.

by blogue20 on Oct 29, 2008 9:32 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Give Tom Bradley 7 weeks

to develop a scheme against a team with no RB and no TE?

Where do I sign up to see that?

by Cairo on Oct 29, 2008 10:22 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

EXACTLY

Texas is good in their own respect, don’t get me wrong. But seriously – we are an awful matchup for them. The passing dimension of their offense is very good, but thats the only dimension they have. A simple nickel defense gives them fits all day long, we wouldn’t have to blitz much to sack McCoy 8 times, and who knows how he’d react against a pass rush. Even Tom Brady last year proved that he’s a mess when there are defenders near him.

On the other side of the coin: Does anyone actually believe we won’t score 45+ on them? Period.

by blogue20 on Oct 29, 2008 10:33 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think

A Tech victory would be awesome because Ok State matches up much better to them and they will go down.

JoePa in '09

by JGuiher on Oct 28, 2008 4:30 PM EDT   0 recs

Well, yeah, but that’s counting on 2 wins. Florida over Alabama is counting on 1 win.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Oct 28, 2008 5:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If anyone cares...

I posted a spreadsheet with the BCS values for every team that has any votes in the human polls and/or is in the top 25 of any of the computer polls. To see it as an html document, click here.

To download the Excel spreadsheet, use this link. (You’ll probably want to right-mouse click and select Save Target As or some similar procedure.)

If you do look at these & have any questions or comments, please let me know.

Now you can try all the different scenarios on your own.

by Elihu on Oct 28, 2008 5:42 PM EDT   0 recs

No

The company I worked for has a history of downsizing after making acquisitions & my position was one of the 200 downsized after the most recent acquisition.

by Elihu on Oct 29, 2008 11:42 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry to hear that

But good to see you’re finding something to do with your time!

by blogue20 on Oct 29, 2008 11:55 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry as hell to hear that, bro.

Good luck to you and here’s hoping you find something better!

If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.

by TheMightyErik on Oct 29, 2008 5:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If you open either BCS spreadsheet link in my post above,...

you’ll see a link to my resume at the bottom & that’ll tell you that it was Progress Software.

by Elihu on Oct 31, 2008 2:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

or if he just hits the reply button under your post

then he can sit back and wait for the answer to come to him! :-D

by The JuggerNitt on Oct 31, 2008 3:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

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