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It's Only Cheating If You Get Caught

Osuholding_medium
This is nice. Is that polyester? Hey, Beanie, feel this.

One thing we all came out of Saturday night complaining about was the obvious holding calls the referees were ignoring all night. Even the Ohio State fans couldn't help but notice their guys were getting away with it.

What about the performance by the refs last night? Disclaimer: I don’t think the zebras had anything to do with the outcome - I just think they sucked. Browning got away with at least three holds...

Kevin went back and looked at the tape of Ohio State's final drive and the blatant holds, tackles, and pushes from behind are astonishing. 

I don't subscribe to the "letting them play" philosophy of officiating just because it's the last minute of the game. The rules are the rules from the opening kickoff until the final whistle blows. I understand that you could technically call holding on every play if you wanted to, but when a man is obviously beat and drags his opponent down from behind you have to throw the hanky. I don't care if it's the last play of the national championship game. You can't let one team get the upper hand by breaking the rules in the name of "letting them play".

Now I've seen message board chatter where Buckeye fans are whining about Penn State not getting a single penalty the entire game. I'm sure you could put together a video showing Penn State offensive linemen getting away with holds. It's not my intention to say the officials were biased in favor of Ohio State on Saturday. Not at all. I'm just saying this is a trend we see week in and week out and the Big Ten needs to take a close look at their officiating and make some changes. And while they're at it, they should look at home town clock management officials. 

So when Ohio State kicks a 41 yard field goal just before the end of the half it takes seven seconds. Three of which come off the clock after the ball has hit the catch net in the back of the endzone. This denied Penn State an opportunity to get the ball in the hands of Derrick Williams who has been electric on kick returns this year. But when Penn State kicks a field goal with a minute left in the game to take a seven point lead, the time keeper is perfectly awake and stops that clock as soon as it hits the net giving Ohio State as much time as possible on their final drive. The proper call to be sure, but where were those quick reflexes in the first half?

Now did this have any effect on the game? I don't think so. Ohio State would have probably done a squib kick or Williams would have tripped over the 20 yard line. And if the Buckeyes had kicked it out of bounds Joe probably would have taken a knee. Penn State still won and they surely got the benefit of the doubt on a few calls. But this conference has a history of home town clock officials giving their teams a few extra seconds here and there. (Spartan Bob anyone? Ann Arbor 2005?) All I'm asking for is consistency. Something has to be done to take the officiating out of the story lines.

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Comments

Display:

I'm pretty much over it at this point, but...

…imagine what the stories would be like this week if Pryor had completed that Hail Mary to Hartline after Maybin was dragged down from behind. It would be the biggest college football story of the week, certainly in the midwest.

It’s kind of funny now because it didn’t cost us the game.

by Run Up The Score on Oct 29, 2008 10:28 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm in favor of "letting them play"

when it comes to the run of the mill holds that you see on the offensive line where the guys still have their arms at their chests. As soon as you see someone wrap their arms around the defensive player, or block or tackle them (especially from behind), then I just don’t see how the refs can feel they’re doing a good job. They’re basically saying, “this is a crucial play for you guys, so cheat all you want to get it done”

by The JuggerNitt on Oct 29, 2008 10:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

2 more things

I’m not in favor of allowing that, even for our team. I’d rather have a clean game where the players play the game by the rules (though I do get annoyed at the overly aggressive calling as well).

I do feel, however, that the refs should ref consistently through the game, though, and if they were letting those types of holds go all day long, then I suppose they should let them go on the final drive (sorta like in baseball, with the strike zone. If you’re gonna have a tight strike zone, then keep it tight the whole game, for all the pitchers). The real issue, though, is that they never should have allowed those kinds of holds at all.

by The JuggerNitt on Oct 29, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point is

It never should have gone on “all game long”. Just because we won doesn’t take away from the blatancy of it. The correlation is simply “fortunate.” Joe would have smashed the glass in the press box and sprinted to midfield had things gone differently.

by blogue20 on Oct 29, 2008 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Their field goal was longer….I think its like 2 seconds/10 yds

sarcasm

by farrellpsu on Oct 29, 2008 10:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

there is something to that

and their kick should have taken more time than ours, but not twice as long ;-)

by The JuggerNitt on Oct 29, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

Theirs was ten yards longer. But three seconds should not tick off the clock after the ball hits the net.

by BSD on Oct 29, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I noticed the time ticking off the clock as well

It happens all the time, in any college game, in the NFL, you name it. They’ve been trying for some time now to make games shorter, and this is a byproduct of that.

by blogue20 on Oct 29, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the NFL...

there is a rule that a non-blocked field goal can not take more then 5 seconds no matter how long it actually takes. Is there such a rule in College? It would have prevented that.

JoePa in '09

by JGuiher on Oct 29, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

timing issue at end of game.

This one “benefited” us. The interception at the end of the game stopped the clock for change of possession. We ran the victory formation, but it turns out they wanted to review the interception so play is stopped and replay reviewed. Before another play is run the clock runs out. So basically after change of possession, without running a play the clock ran out. Nice for us, bad for B10.

I don't know, Mello Yello is pretty awful. What's the worst that could happen?

by psu on Oct 29, 2008 10:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah

I noticed that too. After Devlin took the knee they decided to review the interception. I thought that was odd. But I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe nobody heard the whistle before the snap. But then they review the play, it stands, and they start running the clock without taking a snap. What was up with that? Devlin looked at the ref and stuck his hands out like saying “WTF?”

And was that interception really questionable and worth reviewing? I didn’t think there was any doubt he caught the ball cleanly in bounds. If we’re going to start reviewing plays like that these games are going to take five hours.

by BSD on Oct 29, 2008 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The clock running

This was the equivalent of fuzzy math. The way I understood it was that the victory formation play did if fact count, but then they stopped for review. Never mind that this is against the rules, but whatever. So then, when the relay showed nothing, they just pretended like it never happened and let the clock run like it would after a normal knee.

by Kevin HD on Oct 29, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Although I guess I take this back

So according to both ESPN and the GoPSUSports, that final knee never happened and it’s not counted as a Devlin rush.

This is how GPS lists it:

Psu 1-10 at Psu20 PENN STATE drive start at 00:27.
   Interception play was reviewed by the booth and upheld.
Psu 1-10 at Psu20 End of game, clock 00:00.

Huh.

by Kevin HD on Oct 29, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was wondering

if the review was more for ball placement (i.e. was he in the endzone or not). That could have made a difference inasmuch that PSU has to decide to run a play out of the endzone or take a knee for the safety.

Regarding “letting them play” I think what is irritating is when the zebras allow a “no call” on infractions that arguably had a huge impact (e.g. qb that doesn’t get sacked makes big completion, rb that doesn’t get tackled makes big gain to move chains, etc) and other times a flag gets thrown for infractions that had no impact on the play at all (e.g. block behind the back on a return that occurs on the other side of the field). There obviously wasn’t any of the latter this past Saturday, but I’ve seen plenty of games where that has been the case.

Bottom line is a rule is a rule. It should be enforced. You can’t catch them all, but if you’re going to let some slide then let the ones that have no impact on the play slide and call the ones that obviously do. Otherwise you can’t possibly free yourself of any bias charge(s).

"the secret to loving your job is having a hobby that you really despise"

by nitwit86 on Oct 29, 2008 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're right

ball placement seemed to be the issue with the review.

by jimbo2psu on Oct 29, 2008 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And on roughing the kicker

I don’t see how they couldn’t call roughing the kicker on the one Boone punt that pinned them deep. I watched the replay four times on the Penn State Football Story last night. The Ohio State guy just ran through Boone, and he was clearly not blocked into him.

by BSD on Oct 29, 2008 11:04 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm surprised Lauranitis didn't get credited with a tackle...

a Penn State player went down & 33 was somewhere within a 100 yards.

by Elihu on Oct 29, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The guy took 2-3 steps after the punt

just to get to him too! The holding pissed me off, but it’s holding, and it’s always somewhat disputable. The roughing the kicker no-call was egregious and someone should be fined or suspended for missing it. Our kicker got knocked on his ass.

by jimbo2psu on Oct 29, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe it's just me

But I didn’t think Boone was hit very hard at all on that punt.

by Run Up The Score on Oct 29, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It has half contact/half embelishment

Still could have been called, but in a game where blatant holding penalties were purposely being ignored both ways, how were we supposed to expect we were going to get 15 yards and a re-do on the drive from the zebras. No chance. And adversely, if OSU was punting and Stupar hit their punter the exact same way and it got flagged, based on the way the game had been going, we would be rightfully FURIOUS.

by blogue20 on Oct 29, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looked like running into the kicker to me

He didn’t get blocked in, and he clearly hit the punter, so some sort of flag is pretty much automatic by the rules. I didn’t think he hit hard enough to get roughing, though.

by SpartanDan on Oct 30, 2008 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thank you!!!!!!!

for recognizing the roughing the kicker call. i posted a comment on this sunday and a couple people roasted me for thinking it was roughing the kicker. i knew i saw that correctly.

by jcierski on Oct 29, 2008 11:32 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

at the time

i also thought that we should have gotten that call and the first down. when there wasn’t any call i wondered if it could have been seen as a “blocked into the kicker” but there was no replay, not even a mention in the booth (I need to start turning the sound down on the tv and tune the radio into Steve Jones and Jack Ham more often . . . the problem with that of course is the drastic delay. Knowing the result of the play before the ball has even been snapped kinda takes some of the thrill away).

So a second “thanks” because I had been wondering, too, how that play looked to others.

"the secret to loving your job is having a hobby that you really despise"

by nitwit86 on Oct 29, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two Things

(1) Didn’t Penn State have an offensive pass interference penalty in the first half? I keep hearing about no penalties, but I thought there was one. I was watching in a bar (Carpool in Arlington), so I could not hear the sound.

(2) Does anyone have a video of the roughing the kicker non-call? Looked obvious to me, but as has been stated, there was not even a replay.

by dontcallmescooter on Oct 29, 2008 12:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

OSU Declined...

the penalty so tech. it doesn’t count as a penalty

by PSUfanSTUCKinSECland on Oct 29, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pass Interference

Butler was called for interference. But Ohio State declined it so it didn’t count against Penn State.

by BSD on Oct 29, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

whew

that was a close one.

I don't know, Mello Yello is pretty awful. What's the worst that could happen?

by psu on Oct 29, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Best Damn

Penalty we had all year and it didn’t even count!

JoePa in '09

by JGuiher on Oct 29, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spartan Bob

After the UM/MSU game, the Big Ten decided to have the TV timeout red hat guy keep the official time on the field. As I understand it, the stadium clock is still kept by someone who works for the facility, but it isn’t official. So, there may be cases where the two are not the same.

Having attended a fair number of Big Ten games since the change was made, I have seen a few occassions where they consult red hat guy and announce a change to the stadium clock. People tend to only remember when it happens in a close game though, like the UM/PSU game in 2005, where they twice added time back to the clock following timeouts, once after a PSU timeout, and a second time after UM took one.

One other thing about penalties, blocking in the back is 100% legal within the tackle box. Drives me nuts when people complain about it.

by Wlvrn99 on Oct 29, 2008 1:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Blocking in the back
One other thing about penalties, blocking in the back is 100% legal within the tackle box. Drives me nuts when people complain about it.

I didn’t know that. Would you mind citing the rule?

by BSD on Oct 29, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Page 127

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/Football_Rulesadc982b5-03fb-4e27-828c-c2d26b95e6c1.pdf

Exceptions:
1. When offensive players are on the line of scrimmage at the snap
within a rectangular area centered on the middle lineman of the
offensive formation and extending five yards laterally and three
yards longitudinally in each direction, they may legally block in the
back in the rectangular area.
(a) A player on the line of scrimmage within this blocking zone may
not leave the zone and return and legally block in the back.
(b) The blocking zone exists until the ball is touched outside the zone
or the ball is outside the zone after a fumble or muff from inside
the zone.

Also mentions the “he turned into it” exception which is valid anywhere on the field.

by Wlvrn99 on Oct 29, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

Its sort of a crappy rule and allows offensive linemen a cheap re-do if they whiff on the initial block, but it is what it is. Thanks for the clarification. Never knew that existed.

by blogue20 on Oct 29, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No problem with that

Especially given spin moves by defensive linemen, and all that. It makes a lot of sense.

Of course, it’s “may legally block in the back”, which doesn’t include grabbing the other player’s jersey or tackling him around the waist…and certainly not when the QB carries the ball outside the rectangular zone, such as with Pryor’s hail mary.

by Run Up The Score on Oct 29, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

From what I saw of that play, it was still holding. Not ND-level holding of course, but should have been called.

by Wlvrn99 on Oct 29, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My company’s shareholders would be proud.

by Wlvrn99 on Oct 29, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good info, but...

pretty much any handoff or 3-step drop would put the ball more than 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage I think. As long as the ball is beyond that, no blocking in the back no matter where the block occurs, correct? This seems to only defend a block in the back IMMEDIATELY after the snap, before anything can really be done with the ball to effect the play, which is rarely if ever the case.

by jimbo2psu on Oct 31, 2008 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Big Ten = Worse officiating in the NCAA

Just ignore PSU games, where I’m obviously biased, and it’s still God aweful.

We have the worst officiating in the country, guys missing calls, calling phantom penalties, but that’s not the worst part.

Our instant replay is unbelievably bad, inconceivable. During the Mich Mich St. game there were two really blatant calls that were reviewed and still screwed up. One was a TD which was incorrectly called, one was a catch where the receiver had to pick the ball up off the turf to ‘catch’ it.

Next is the fact that I’ve twice seen the Refs allow a full play to begin and finish before blowing the whistle to review the “previous” play. This is how we got a TD against Purdue, because we missed a QB sneak and got it back because the play before was being reviewed. The same thing occurred in a really benign play earlier in the season during a PSU game and I was shocked.

These idiot refs are really going to screw up a big bowl game this season on prime-time national TV, count on it.

by millzners on Oct 29, 2008 4:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

The Big XII has some bad referees too.

by Cairo on Oct 29, 2008 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pac 10's suck ass...

Anyone remember that Locker kid getting jobbed against BYU for that ‘celebration’ or the Oregon / Michigan game’s onside kick, etc, etc. These guys out here really do suck because, in most cases, the teams and games do so why bother having refs that give a damn.

If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.

by TheMightyErik on Oct 29, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you meant

the Oregon/Oklahoma onsides kick. But regardless, you’re right.

by blogue20 on Oct 30, 2008 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's right!

My bad and +1 to you sir!

If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.

by TheMightyErik on Oct 30, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about the clock on the last series?

Penn State lines up (after the reviewed call on Seargent’s Int.), and the clock was running on 1st down? I have never seen the clock run on 1st down, and the refs were like….eh, lets get out of here quicker. Amazing

by Dutchman1350 on Oct 29, 2008 9:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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