Chicago Tribune: Penn State's Loss Is Big Ten's Gain

by Run Up The Score on Nov 10, 2008 2:34 PM EST in Football

Here's why: If Daniel Murray had missed that 31-yard game-winning field goal, the nation's college football fans would have let out a collective groan loud enough to shatter windows in State College.

Penn State needed what to beat a 5-5 team?

The Nittany Lions would have remained in prime position to scoop up a spot in the Bowl Championship Series title game. And if Penn State had got the call over one-loss teams such as Florida and Texas, we would have been treated to weeks of Big Ten mockery.

In other words, to quote the great Homer Simpson, "Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try."

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And...

The Big Ten would have had another chance to redeem itself in a National Championship game.

And Ohio State would have gotten a BCS at-large bid.

But now the conference will recieve just one BCS entry (those losing Nittany Lions), and will be completely irrelevant when it comes to the National Championship debate.

Yes, I’m tgreenstein@tribune.com and I don’t make an ounce of sense.
Maybe I’ll go to the Sun Times and take Mariotti’s place. One d bag replacing another.

by NittanyBadger on Nov 10, 2008 2:43 PM EST 0 recs

Doesn't count.

Yes, but Ohio State or Michigan wouldn’t have had the chance to salvage the conference’s reputation, so what’s the point, really?

by Run Up The Score on Nov 10, 2008 2:45 PM EST up 0 recs

Big Ten still has a good shot at two BCS entries

There just won’t be any other options. If Oregon State loses one and USC claims the Pac-10 auto-bid, the Pac-10, Big East, and ACC will have no eligible teams for an at-large. That means that the only way the Big 10 can get left out is if the BCS takes a second non-BCS team instead of a second Big Ten team. Possible but not very likely. (If Oregon State wins out, on the other hand, USC will take that last spot and the Big Ten will only get one.)

by SpartanDan on Nov 10, 2008 4:28 PM EST up 0 recs

Good point...

Although, I’m still curious as to whether the “no conference with 3 teams” rule will be applied.

That could be a mess when it comes to the Big 12.
They could have 3 teams in the top 6.

If it does come down to Ohio State or Boise State (or 3rd Big 12 team which isn’t allowed)…you’d have to think the Ohio State following and cash the host city would garner trumps the tear provoking moment Ian Johnson would provide.

I’ll say this about Ohio State though…I got a sneaky feeling Michigan might hijack them in the finale. (had the same feeling of Iowa over PSU…would gladly trade that and a kidney to the college football gods for a reversal)

by NittanyBadger on Nov 10, 2008 5:56 PM EST up 0 recs

And don't forget

Ohio State has to get past Illinois too. How did that go last year?

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

by BSD on Nov 10, 2008 8:22 PM EST up 0 recs

It will

The possibility of not having enough teams to choose last year prompted them to put in a contingency plan – basically, the next four in the rankings become eligible if they have nine wins and there aren’t already two teams from their conference selected.

I suppose there’s a possible issue if OSU loses one and PSU beats MSU; both would be 9-3 and it’s possible that neither would be in the top 14 (OSU might be anyway, MSU almost certainly wouldn’t). I don’t think that’s particularly likely (one of the two will probably happen, but probably not both).

by SpartanDan on Nov 11, 2008 12:41 AM EST up 0 recs

Oh I see

So if Florida had beaten Ole Miss, it wouldn’t be fair to say “Florida needed what to beat Ole Miss AT HOME”?

by speedomike on Nov 10, 2008 2:50 PM EST 0 recs

That doesnt count...

Florida was at home and Ole Miss was a bad team…

….said with a dash of sarcasm!

WE ARE.......PENN STATE!

by Nick7 on Nov 10, 2008 4:34 PM EST up 0 recs

We still may have dropped some in the polls

I have wondered how a narrow win would have looked to the pollsters / CPU’s. It’s all for not, now. But to see us at 7/8 I don’t feel nearly as bad as what I thought they were going to do to us.

If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.

by TheMightyErik on Nov 10, 2008 2:52 PM EST 0 recs

I have the obvious solution

Forfeit our automatic BCS bid until we can somehow muster up the collective confidence to compete on the national stage again. In fact, maybe we should decline all bowl invitations. Don’t want anyone’s feelings to get hurt!

by Run Up The Score on Nov 10, 2008 2:52 PM EST 0 recs

Additionally...

It will be a cold but happy day in hell when we’re out of this conference.

by Run Up The Score on Nov 10, 2008 3:01 PM EST up 0 recs

Which conference would you prefer?

by speedomike on Nov 10, 2008 3:04 PM EST up 0 recs

In Fantasyland?

My short answer would be “ACC”, without regard to existing conference memberships, etc. We’ve always been an east coast school, IMO. Do we fit in a conference with UNC, Clemson, etc.? Not really, but no less than we do with Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc. Plus, we’d have Miami, BC, Maryland, UVA, VT…

This doesn’t address academics or anything else. If you want me to draw up my super-awesome nationwide conference realignment, that’s a project for February or March. :)

by Run Up The Score on Nov 10, 2008 3:10 PM EST up 0 recs

lol

glad to see I’m not the only one with super-awesome nationwide conference realignments (and I even try to keep rivalries intact, which does screw some otherwise beautiful realignments up)

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 10, 2008 3:24 PM EST up 0 recs

I expect to see..

both of these super-conference realignments on my desk by March 15th.

If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.

by TheMightyErik on Nov 10, 2008 3:52 PM EST up 0 recs

I'll give you a preview

Five conference games against Idaho EVERY SEASON.

by Run Up The Score on Nov 10, 2008 3:58 PM EST up 0 recs

I think I would cancel my Nittany Lion Club membership

I love the wins, but unless the other 7 games on the slate are against other powerhouses, I think I’d yawn myself to death during every game.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 10, 2008 4:23 PM EST up 0 recs

Have fun next season!

Worst. Schedule. Ever.

by Run Up The Score on Nov 10, 2008 4:54 PM EST up 0 recs

Completely

If you think we’re taking flak for our schedule this year, wait until next year. Let’s hope Syracuse and Temple drastically improve. It won’t be enough to impress the voters, but the computers might give us a pass.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

by BSD on Nov 10, 2008 4:56 PM EST up 0 recs

Maybe if we can convince Eastern Illinois to don Oklahoma jerseys…

by ReadingRambler on Nov 10, 2008 5:32 PM EST up 0 recs

Well....

We do get those conference juggernauts NORTHWESTERN and MINNESOTA back on our schedule.

Christ, this sucks.

by Tailgate Shogun on Nov 10, 2008 5:53 PM EST up 0 recs

FWIW...

… and keeping in mind that I’m an Ohio-born, California-resident Syracuse fan, I came up with three ways of slicing and dicing the FBS schools a while ago. In eleven conferences of irregular size that ignored everything but geography, ten twelve-team conferences, and twelve ten-team conferences — which was my favorite, as it eliminates the absurd conference championship games. The northeastern one was Boston College, Connecticut, Maryland, Penn State, Pittsburgh,Rutgers, Syracuse, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia.

by drothgery on Nov 10, 2008 9:23 PM EST up 0 recs

If we were in that conference...

We would go undefeated in-conference every year. My only question…what about Temple?

I bleed Blue and White.

by Horse N Buggy on Nov 11, 2008 9:23 AM EST up 0 recs

Please

Nothing Penn State’s done in the last decade suggests they’d consistently beat West Virginia and Virginia Tech, or always beat BC or Rutgers (and UConn is turning into a respectable program pretty quickly). Granted, by the last decade you would always beat us, but there’s basketball for solace…

But to answer your question, I had Temple in the ‘eastern little guys’ conference — Army, Buffalo, East Carolina, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Marshall, Navy, Temple, UCF, Western Kentucky. Most of the rest of the Big Ten stuck together; my Big Ten 2.0 was Cincinnati, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Purdue, Wisconsin (i.e. add Cinci and Notre Dame, lose Penn State, Iowa, and Minnesota).

You might like the twelve-team variant better; that was Boston College, Connecticut, Maryland, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Cincinnati, Ohio State, West Virginia, Kentucky, Louisville.

by drothgery on Nov 11, 2008 10:36 AM EST up 0 recs

what about Army?

Ben and Alex... first commits for 2024

by 3Yardout on Nov 11, 2008 10:26 AM EST up 0 recs

is that the one...

where you got drunk a while back and posted it? i cant remember, i think i may have been drunk when i read it

For the glory

by lionalum05 on Nov 10, 2008 5:53 PM EST up 0 recs

Sorry, Mike's the drunken poster.

by Run Up The Score on Nov 10, 2008 6:54 PM EST up 0 recs

you people are making me drink reading this

If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.

by TheMightyErik on Nov 11, 2008 1:59 AM EST up 0 recs

there's a quick remedy to that!

he doesn’t have to be the only one ;-)

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 11, 2008 11:47 AM EST up 0 recs

Good

And it works alot better now that there are 120 teams in the division.

Ben and Alex... first commits for 2024

by 3Yardout on Nov 11, 2008 10:25 AM EST up 0 recs

Easy, now.... deep breaths

I, for one, will be happier than hell to see us in the Rose Bowl. Am I disappointed we missed out on the MNC? Well hell yes! But to keep worrying about what these meatheads in the media are saying and the ‘what ifs’ just isn’t healthy. As for the Big10… yeah, I agree. We never did ourselves any favors there other than get JoePa a Rose Bowl (and hopefully a 2nd this year).

If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.

by TheMightyErik on Nov 10, 2008 3:03 PM EST up 0 recs

I do not care about the media meatheads

Let them say all they want about Penn State football, but they can never take away what all of us already know: there’s no place on earth like Happy Valley on a football Saturday. Whether the team is undefeated or has a few losses, on those days the universe revolves around State College. The best thing I ever read about it said something like this: I’m jealous of the people who get to go to all those PSU football games in Happy Valley – it’s like their calendar has 6 or 7 more holidays on it than mine. I get to go 1 game/year, and every year my kids act like it’s Christmas come early when we go there.

So forget the meatheads, enjoy Joe while we have him, and help the Lions beat Indiana and MSU.

by NJ lion on Nov 10, 2008 3:14 PM EST up 1 recs

AMEN!

by 94NittanyChamps on Nov 11, 2008 1:36 PM EST up 0 recs

If not the Big 10, then where?

The Big (L)East? To play Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt every year?
The Big 10 is a great conference for many of our other sports, too.

by NJ lion on Nov 10, 2008 3:05 PM EST 0 recs

Keep in mind

Greenstein did not have PSU in his preseason top 25 and has picked against them about 4 times this season

by InScoresOfOtherGames on Nov 10, 2008 3:15 PM EST 0 recs

media hate

Why does everyone in the media feel the need to hate on us so much? I’m sure after we lost saturday they all needed to change their pants.

by mjs2103 on Nov 10, 2008 3:38 PM EST 0 recs

They don't like our uniforms?

Who knows… it’s sickening that they have always done it to us and why we would all take so much more out of a MNC than most schools. Because after we won the game, JoePa could graciously accept our crystal football with a nice, smug, and eloquent “SUCK IT!”

He never would, but it would be great… :)
Then he could retire with this speech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYnDSHlASG4

If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.

by TheMightyErik on Nov 10, 2008 4:01 PM EST up 0 recs

Those older and wiser (alumni) than I have told me this theory:

Paterno had an attitude of ‘holier than thou’ back in the 70’s and 80’s. this coupled with his absolute dominance in those decades ruffled quite a few feathers.

It’s that Paterno acted like where other programs just won, we won with dignity and with honor. That made us better than everyone else because we did things the right way — Paterno’s way. This I think was referred to as the ‘grand experiment’.

So when JoePa finally got his undefeated NC game, it was beyond just a big game, it was “good vs. evil”. Obviously the implications of that one game are still relevant even today in the media, and they still resent him for his ‘holier than thou’ attitude, because his continuing success indicates he was right.

by millzners on Nov 10, 2008 4:13 PM EST up 0 recs

Not holier than thou...it's just...

…We are not douchebags like Barry Switzer…

and we don’t punch players in the face like Woody Hayes….

and we don’t buy guns for Maurice Clarett like Jim Tressel….

haha had to say that one.

"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things." -Joe Paterno

by TheGunslinger on Nov 10, 2008 5:38 PM EST up 0 recs

WE ARE

better than everyone. And so is JoePa. They just need to accept that.

For the glory

by Paige2PSU on Nov 10, 2008 8:08 PM EST up 0 recs

Or Corvettes for Terrelle Pryor

by NJ lion on Nov 10, 2008 9:27 PM EST up 0 recs

thought he had an Escalade now

ya know, to fit his entourage in

If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.

by TheMightyErik on Nov 11, 2008 2:00 AM EST up 0 recs

Stewart Mandel Now Getting In On The Act

Undeniably Stupid, Party of One

While it’s possible Penn State would have avoided a similar BCS title fate — what if it didn’t? A third straight blowout on the big stage might have gotten the Big Ten blackballed. Even worse, even if Iowa had missed that field goal, Florida might have surpassed the Nittany Lions in the polls Sunday. To send a one-loss team to the title game over undefeated Penn State would be like saying the Big Ten is no different than the Mountain West. As strange as it sounds, the best way for the conference to begin restoring its reputation is to steer clear of the title game for now.

Let’s make up wacky hypotheticals to support our claim! Then say something so asinine, we have to lead it with “as strange as it sounds”! That makes it more believable if I call it out as stupid!

Holy crap. I’ve already said it here, but the worst part about the loss to Iowa is that every Big Ten/PSU naysayer has ammunition to back up whatever crazy theory they want to trot out there. It’s becoming viral.

by Kunk on Nov 10, 2008 4:28 PM EST 0 recs

and yet

Florida and the OMG ESS EEE SEE deserve to be in the national championship (since everyone is assuming they’ll beat Alabama in the SEC champ game, and somehow that Ole Miss loss is better than the Iowa loss)!!!

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 10, 2008 4:33 PM EST up 0 recs

Eh...

I don’t know. Floriday would have beaten FSU, Alabama, Georgia, and LSU. That’s probably somewhere better than OSU, MSU, and OrSU, but I think only marginally.

Two problems: we get done playing WAAAAYYY to early to be part of the 1 loss conversation, and OMG ESSS EEE CEEE speed!

by Tailgate Shogun on Nov 10, 2008 5:56 PM EST up 0 recs

In some small part, I agree....

While it sucks for Penn State to lose this game (and more so for me as my wife is an Iowa alum), It will overall help the Big10. This will be even more evident when Oregon State wins the Pac10. As stated above, Ohio State will then be knocked out of the BCS games. The rest of the bowl game matchups will then favor Big10 teams:
Capital One…….BT #2 vs SEC #3
Outback…….BT #3 vs SEC #4
Insight……..BT #4 vs Big12 #5-6
Alamo……BT#5 vs Big12 #6-7

We would have a very good shot at coming out of Bowl Season at 6-1 or 5-2

Still Sucks….

by jbolt1971 on Nov 10, 2008 5:54 PM EST 0 recs

you'd take...

in the Capital One and Outback bowls… OSU/MSU over Georgia or LSU?

Insight- Minn over Ok State?

Alamo- Northwestern over Kanas or Nebraska???

Ok maybe the Wildcats would pull it off.

"For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled"- Hunter S. Thompson

by phishead_psu on Nov 10, 2008 7:11 PM EST up 0 recs

Stewart Mandel's Bowl Projections

Capital One- Georgia vs. Mighigan State
Outback- South Carolina vs. Iowa
Insight- Wisconsin vs. Kansas
Alamo- Missouri vs. Minnesota

I’d like the Big Ten in the Outback bowl and thats about it right now, but I will also say we always end up doing alright overall in bowl season.

"For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled"- Hunter S. Thompson

by phishead_psu on Nov 10, 2008 7:21 PM EST up 0 recs

I'm assuming Ohio State doesn't get BCS bid....

That leaves
Cap One…….Georgia vs Ohio State
Outback……..South Carolina vs Mich St
Insight……….Kansas vs Iowa
Alamo………..Wisconsin vs Missouri

I’d take the Big10 in all but the Alamo……..

by jbolt1971 on Nov 10, 2008 7:31 PM EST up 0 recs

people really think Wisconsin is going to the Alamo Bowl?

I know the bowls have some flexibility in who they choose, and if they get past the juggernaut Minnesota, then I guess they will finish 7-5 on the season, (3-5 Big 10), but man, that’d be ugly.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 11, 2008 11:52 AM EST up 0 recs

Please God No

Missouri or Oklahoma State would kill them.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

by BSD on Nov 11, 2008 12:17 PM EST up 0 recs

Your Iowa alum wife...

sounds hot….

her school of choice… shat upon our dreams…

If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.

by TheMightyErik on Nov 11, 2008 2:03 AM EST up 0 recs

definitely not me

but some people find that kinda stuff hot

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 11, 2008 11:53 AM EST up 0 recs

Shitting Iowa Wife

Not hot!
Not hot!
Not hot!

pax et amor

by jtothep on Nov 11, 2008 1:27 PM EST up 0 recs

What I want to see

FSU beat Florida, but lose other games. OK beat TT, but lose to OkSU. Florida beat ‘bama in the SEC title game. Missouri beat whomever in the Big 12 title game. USC against somebody for the national title. Us against either the SEC or Big 12 in the Rose Bowl. We end up 3rd. At the start of next year, we are in the top ten or top five. Regardless of our schedule, if we win all of our games, we play for the MNC. Also, I’d like Sean Lee to get the Heisman. (Figured I might as well throw that in there.)

by Elihu on Nov 10, 2008 5:54 PM EST 0 recs

I heard he's transferring..

there’s no way he can ever do enough to get out of Laurinitis’ shadow in the Big 10. That guy is just that good

If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.

by TheMightyErik on Nov 11, 2008 2:04 AM EST up 0 recs

if your above scenario holds true

I could actually see us jumping USC, and therefore being in the Nat’l Championship game, or playing USC in that game. It isn’t as far fetched as it sounds (though still unlikely)

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 11, 2008 11:54 AM EST up 0 recs

"The Media"

Sorry but I have a general nauseous reaction whenever I hear any fans complaining about the media. Every fan thinks the media hates his team. Even USC and SEC fans think the media is out to get their team.
The truth is that there are a lot of people who get paid to speak and write about CFB who can’t possibly watch even the top 20 teams play all their games. So, they generalize, they guess, and they turn a “trend of two” OSU losses into a statement on really 33 separate entities (the past 3 seasons for each B11 team).
All in all, the media is not biased against PSU, but a lot of people get paid to speak about PSU (and many other teams) regardless of their actual knowledge of the team. PSU had their chance to educate everyone and they blew it, but they still have a chance to educate most.

by InScoresOfOtherGames on Nov 10, 2008 6:12 PM EST 0 recs

Normally, I would agree with you

But the difference is that the media has sway in the outcome in this sport which amplifies the vitriol they spew. Various journalists have literally stated that “most Americans” do not want to see PSU in the championship game.

Translation: THEY don’t want to see it.

And that’s before the Iowa game. Now, the journalists are vindicated because we lost.

Stings on both ends, brah.

by Mr. Rosewater on Nov 10, 2008 6:29 PM EST up 1 recs

"Every fan thinks the media hates his team."

I’ve often wondered about this. Are Nebraska, Tennessee, ND, Rutgers, Michigan etc. fans feeling the heat from the press because of their crappy years? Any non-PSU posters out there have any input on this?

by NJ lion on Nov 10, 2008 9:31 PM EST up 0 recs

well I'm not in the NJ area anymore

but I have people involved with the Rutgers program. It seems that media coverage returned to what it was pre-2006: general indifference with the occasional sportswriter writing about how Rutgers sucks.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 11, 2008 12:00 PM EST up 0 recs

oh, and I AM in the Michigan area

and people seem very disappointed in Michigan, but they seem to be directing it all at DickRod (who probably does deserve most of the blame, since him trying to install his offense onto this team’s players is analogous to trying to shove a square peg through a round hole). I’m not sure how much it correlates, but Michigan seems to have had a bunch of struggling years the past few years (outside of 2006), where they at least had some very slow, painful starts to the seasons.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 11, 2008 12:02 PM EST up 0 recs

RR

With the talent on that roster there was no excuse for not making a bowl game. He just refused to adapt and run a system that would work with the players he had. He wanted to wipe a clean slate and start over. All of the seniors on that team were no better than the freshmen he brought in because all the experience from their first three years went out the window.

But this is what Michigan wanted. They wanted a sexy offense. They’re going to have to pay the price of a losing season or two to get it. That’s not sitting well with people who have been fans for 20 years and never experienced a losing season before. And from what I hear the people on the inside who were willing to give RR a pass this year are quickly running out of patience with his “my way or the highway” attitude about everything and his complete lack of respect for the Michigan traditions.

Doesn’t Michigan rotate off the schedule in 2010 and 2011? Something tells me next year will be the last time we play against Rich Rodriguez.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

by BSD on Nov 11, 2008 12:24 PM EST up 0 recs

ND

My boss’s kid goes to ND and they say everyone there is calling for Charlie’s head.
What I want to know is this: when ND is even marginally good, that’s all we read about. But now that they stink – again – where’s that hate? PSU is 9-1 and everyone hates on us. I just don’t get it.

by NJ lion on Nov 11, 2008 6:23 PM EST 0 recs