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Around SBN: Raiders' GM Begins The Purge

In Defense of Statistics: Dear Mr. President

(note: it's been a while since I posted one of these - life's been pretty busy. Previous editions are here and here).

Better than a Playoff

I know several BSD readers saw President-elect Obama's statement that he'd like to see a playoff in college football, and I know that the vast majority of you would support it. Especially now, because, y'know, it'd benefit Penn State.

Or would it? Look at the BCS standings: We're #8. The only way we'd get into a playoff right now is in an 8-team playoff. Things are a bit weird in the BCS standings right now: the Harris/Coaches poll have us at #6. Our average statistical ranking is #7, but we're at #8 (barely) because the statistical rankings and the human polls disagree with the relative ranking of USC/Penn State and Texas Tech/Utah.

So would an 8-team playoff do everything we want? Hardly. You've got 3 contenders from the Big 12: Oklahoma, Texas Tech, and Texas. Those three are linked in a circle of death, and between unbeatens, that essentially means that you can move all 3 as high as you want, so long as you move all three. You've got 1 contender from the PAC-10, two contenders from the SEC, one from the Big 10, and then three contenders from outside the BCS. One viable one (Utah) and two very poor ones (Ball State and Boise State) given their schedules. But they're all contenders. And we've essentially ignored the Big East and the ACC champs, because, y'know, they kinda suck. That's 10 contenders if you leave the Big East and ACC champs out entirely.

You can come up with more and more convoluted playoff scenarios - larger ones, ones that seem "more fair" (conference champs plus wild cards) - but when you go to implement them, you'll frequently get a situation where some team has a valid complaint that the system is arbitrary.

The thing is, we don't really want a playoff because we want teams to prove it on the field. We want a playoff because we want the possibility of Oklahoma facing Alabama, or watching Penn State smash Utah. We want more good football games. A playoff, depending on how it's seeded, could give us Georgia Tech vs. Ball State. Be still my heart. More good football games - that'd be better than a playoff.

All About the Connections

So what's really wrong with college football? After all, Division IAA doesn't have these problems. College basketball doesn't have these problems. What is it about Division IA? It's easy: Division IA college football is the worst connected major sport in the US. Basketball has more teams, but more games, and the games are better distributed. In addition, it is impossible to achieve major-league connectivity in Division IA football.

What do I mean by "connected" and "major league connectivity"? Think of it this way: Penn State is first-order connected to Oregon State. We played them, directly. Penn State is second-order connected to USC (twice over, in fact) - we played Oregon State (or Ohio State) who played USC. We're third-order connected to Bowling Green - we played OSU who played Minnesota who played Bowling Green (or Ohio State through Ohio). There are even 9 teams that Penn State is only fourth-order connected to.

I define "major-league connectivity" as "every team is at least second-order connected to every other team." The NFL is constructed to be this way. MLB is this way since interleague play and a crazy number of games. I don't know enough about the NBA, but given the number of games it's unlikely that it wouldn't be.

Why is this important? Easy: because with major-league connectivity, you're only ever talking about the play of each team. We can't say from direct experience on the field that Penn State is better than USC, but we can look at the way that both of them played Ohio State, and the way that both of them played Oregon State, and say "OK, this could be a tossup, but Penn State might have a slight advantage." Here, you're comparing a team's performances based on a common benchmark - how they did against common teams.

How can you tell if Penn State is better than, say, Texas Tech? Penn State is fourth-order connected to Texas Tech: Penn State lost to Iowa who beat Iowa State who lost to Texas A&M who lost to Texas Tech. How the heck am I supposed to figure out anything from that? You can't - not really. You can't really compare teams head-to-head in college football. There's not enough information.

Simple Suggestions, and why they're Not So Simple

So if I'm saying that we need something more than just a playoff, what do we need? Can't we just say "look, you can't keep scheduling cream puffs all the time"? Isn't that what everyone wants? There are sites that come up with an elaborate playoff system that looks completely feasible. Why can't we just do that?

The problem is that Penn State, like all Division IA teams, has to keep scheduling cream puffs. Because we have to have 7 home games. Otherwise we don't make enough money. Just that simple. Because we have to have 7 home games, we have to schedule a team that doesn't care if they get 7 home games. Which is a cream puff.

The Big East has problems because sometimes they need to schedule four out of conference home games. This breaks down how important home games are to Boise State (who's small enough that they can't always schedule 7 home games - but they have to schedule 6). Paterno's said  repeatedly that Penn State needs to schedule seven home games for financial reasons. I could include quotes from the LSU athletic director, from Texas Tech's, etc. - pretty much whomever you want. The answer's the same. You need 7 home games at least for the BCS conference level programs. Which means we need cream puffs.

But don't get me wrong - college football isn't doomed. There are ways things could be improved, and if President-elect Obama really has so much free time he can look into college football, this is what I think he should do. #1-2 are pretty much controversy-free and easy. #3-4 are less so.

  1. Don't allow Division IAA games (FCS) to count towards bowl eligibility. At all. There are plenty of cream puffs in Division IA. If you have to play an FCS school for financial reasons, you have to win 7 games. Period. The end.
  2. Don't allow Division IAA games to count at all in the BCS statistical rankings. Not at all. Not wins, not losses. If a team (Michigan!) loses to a IAA team, let the human polls strike the wrath of the heavens upon them. Statistically, Division IAA teams are too poorly connected: you can end up ranking James Madison #24 (Sagarin) or #105 (Wolfe) - yes, that's right. A team that 4-7 Duke beat 31-7 is ranked above LSU. This is why including IAA games is insane.
  3. Try to get rid of situations where interconference play is dominated by two conferences - i.e. the Big Ten playing 13 games (!!) against the MAC, and only 1 game against the ACC. This is far, far easier said than done - but the easiest method is probably to encourage conference-collective bargaining with major networks.
  4. As a return for that, encourage the major cable carriers to include the conference-only channels (i.e. the Big Ten network and friends) in the standard cable tier or a lesser alternative than the full "mega-package" that's usually required.

Like I said, #1 and #2 are straightforward: you have to get rid of any incentive to schedule a IAA team over a IA team. Period.

#3 and #4 are complicated. It's just not easy to force teams to schedule games where they won't make as much money. And that's the driving problem behind scheduling.

So, Mr. President, I really strongly suggest - if you're going to bother mucking around in college football, don't just come in and decree a playoff. A bad playoff can make things far worse than what we have now. What needs to happen in college football is that scheduling between Division IA teams needs to be fixed.

I think it's hard to argue that Penn State played a weak schedule this year. Oregon State is a Top 25 team right now, and playing a Top 25 team in your out of conference schedule is usually considered a strong team. The problem wasn't Penn State's schedule - it was every other team in the Big Ten's schedule (well, that and the fact that those teams couldn't, y'know, win those games).

The Lost Path to Victory

In the second In Defense of Statistics, back when Hell hadn't frozen over and Penn State was undefeated, I put forth a list of things that could happen that would cause Penn State to jump an undefeated Alabama. Obviously, this is all moot since Penn State lost to Iowa, but it turns out it still quite wouldn't've been enough. It would've been very very close, however.

The main point of that discussion, though, was to point out the fact that preseason expectations were really what was driving the viewpoint that the SEC is better than the Big Ten. That's really still there. We still don't know if the SEC is better than the Big Ten or not. Two of their biggest out-of-conference games are next week, versus Georgia Tech and Florida State. If they lose both of those, it's hard to argue that the SEC is better. Winning both is a solid statement that they're a good conference - but it hasn't happened yet.

LSU is really they poster child; for some insane reason, they stuck around in human rankings forever. Statistical rankings knew that LSU wasn't that good. If you look at the week-by-week graph of Colley's ranking for LSU, you'll see that by Week 7, they were basically where they are now. It didn't take people long to realize Auburn sucked. Why did it take so long to realize LSU was really not that good? I have no idea.

For those BlogPoll (or any other voters) who still have LSU on the ballot: you're insane. Iowa would be a better choice. They've at least beaten someone decent.

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What about

Reducing the number of FBS teams? There was some movement in that direction a few years ago with the minimum attendance qualifier that seemed to vanish. Remove a dozen Sun Belt/WAC teams and your third order connections between BCS schools will drop dramatically, no?

by Cairo on Nov 24, 2008 7:20 PM EST reply actions  

I would love for them to cut the FBS in half entirely. But politically and financially I don’t think it’s really doable.

The biggest problem for connectivity right now is the games against FCS schools. They have to go. I actually think it’s a bit surprising that people point to Penn State’s schedule and say “pshaw, Temple, Syracuse, Coastal Carolina” (neglecting Oregon State, obviously). Syracuse gives a decent reference point for the Big East (Penn State handed Syracuse its largest margin loss), Temple provides a decent reference point for the MAC (ditto), and Oregon State for the PAC-10 (ditto ditto). Coastal Carolina’s an FCS school, and those are completely useless.

The weaker teams in non-BCS conferences in the FBS are really the only schools out there that’ll take an away-only game.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Nov 24, 2008 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point

Removing some of the lesser 1-A schools combined with changes regarding 1-AA schools in the article above would help a good bit. I don’t think you could wholesale get rid of conferences (though the Sunbelt really doesn’t have much justification to be a 1-A conference) but there are a number of teams between the Sunbelt/MAC/WAC (in particular) that would drop down if there were some firm rules as to 1-A eligibility.

by Laaaaazzz on Nov 25, 2008 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

That would probably lead to

more scheduling of 1-AA’s instead of interconference BCS schools

by whiteoutonly on Nov 24, 2008 7:46 PM EST reply actions  

Bleed Blue 'n White

is getting my nod to write my next term paper. Well done and thank you for the write up! If blog nation ever gets a voice in playoff scenarios you and several others on here are on top of it when it comes to thinking this thing through.

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member

by TheMightyErik on Nov 24, 2008 8:28 PM EST reply actions  

BCS Buster guy...

I shouldn’t’ve posted a link to the BCS Buster website. The guy’s certifiable. He basically believes that the BCS is being propagated by The Man.

Do me a favor and don’t click on the link to his website.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Nov 24, 2008 9:35 PM EST reply actions  

Some questions

So the BCS teams NEED 7 home games, but the non-BCS teams don’t NEED 7 home games. Does any team actually need 7 home games, or do they just need 7 home games to provide over the top salaries to coaches and facilities? I’m not saying we _don’_t need it, just questioning why some need it while others don’t, yet are able to remain competitive.

Maybe if teams weren’t allowed to schedule their 7th needed game, then the financials for teams would even out, and they’d get even more parity in the sport. Sure, not the best for Penn State and other top BCS teams, but it would probably help even the teams a bit more (which apparently the NCAA is in favor of, with the scholarship limits).

Also, considering teams like Penn State and others with monster stadiums possibly make more $ in 1 or 2 home games than some teams make all season, I still don’t quite see why we need more games (not saying I don’t like or want them, but I really don’t see why we need them unless we are spending way more money than other places).

I’m all for removing 1-AA teams from scheduling. I’d almost go as far to say as only 1 OOC game should be allowed against non-BCS schools (and I’d also be in favor of moving non-BCS schools to an altogether different division, since that’s basically where they are now, with effectively getting shut out of the NC game and BCS games).

So let’s say that the teams from the 6 BCS conferences play 3 (or 4) games against a member of the other conferences (1 each), that would give a lot more connectivity, especially if every team in a conference doesn’t play the same other conferences (say PSU plays Pac 10, Big East, and Big 12, OSU plays SEC, ACC, Big 12, Michigan plays Pac 10, Big East, ACC, etc).

I’m still a fan of the 8 (12, 16) team playoffs with the conference champion (which should be more uniformly, and “exactly” decided…no friggen co-champs) and fillin the rest with at-large teams. The worst this would do was exclude the third best BCS team that didn’t win it’s conference (presuming the other 2 in front would get the other 2 slots in an 8 team format). I’m not sure the numbers on it, but I don’t think I’m going out on a limb when I assume that typically the third best team that didn’t win their conference probably isn’t going to be the “best” team in the country. Yes, they’d have cause to whine, but if the nation can just collectively say “if you just handled your own business and won your own conference, this wouldn’t be an issue”. If this happened to Penn State (say we had beaten Iowa, but lost to Michigan State or Ohio State), then yes, I’d be disappointed, and yes I’d probably bitch, but I’d also have a lot less ground to stand on than I would now, that we’re a 1-loss conference champion getting excluded.

Anyway, I’m not saying that what I’m saying right now is the perfect solution, but they are definitely options, and better than what we have now (as long as BCS teams can survive with 6.5 home games a year. 6 one year, 7 the next).

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 25, 2008 9:19 AM EST reply actions  

Another point

In regards to the argument that PSU makes more off one home game than many schools make all season, you should also note that when one of those creampuff teams offers itself up for sacrifice, they typically net
 more money than they would in at least a couple home games, if not their whole home season.

If you typically draw 15-20,000 attendees for a home game at a cost of $10 a ticket (*cough… Pitt! *cough), average $5 a head net in concession sales, and we’ll assume the cost of travel versus the cost of paying ushers, gate agents, etc. is a wash, then it makes perfect economic sense to pocket your $400-600,000 ass-whuppin fee and walk home smiling.

There is a tractor in the parking lot, West Virginia license EIEIO. Your lights are on.

by leeharvey418 on Nov 25, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

“In regards to the argument that PSU makes more off one home game than many schools make all season”

Those “many schools” are not competitive schools. Yeah, we make more off of, say, two games than Montana State does in an entire season. So what? When we want to drop out of the Big Ten and go play in Division IAA, that might make a difference.

Essentially all major, competitive schools have 7 home games a season. The ones that don’t are usually special cases: like USC, which has a semibonus home game with UCLA.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Nov 25, 2008 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

My point...

I don’t mean to say that scheduling 1-AA schools is a good thing, or even excusable if you want to establish truly effective statistical linking among 1-A. When I say ‘many schools’, I am actually thinking of the Indianas, the Northwesterns (most years, anyway), and the majority of mid-major universities that are lucky to net $5,000,000 a year in gate receipts and never get on anything other than local TV unless they are playing a BCS team. I don’t remember where I read it, but I do recall reading a couple of years ago that there are only roughly 15 to 20 (and even that number may be high) College Football programs that actually generate a profit for their universities.

My proposed solution to the lack of linking in D1-A: Mandate that every BCS school schedule at least one game a year against another BCS conference, and at least half the teams in each BCS conference must schedule two or more. Also, and I’m not sure it would even need to be mandated if the first conditions were met, limit the number of common-conference pairings (i.e., Big Ten/MAC) in any season. Even if a sample linking might be, say, Baylor-Minnesota-PSU, we would still end up three degrees away from every team in the Big 12 South. If we were to play Vanderbilt that same year, and as a second-tier SEC team they were one of the ones that got a second BCS OOC game (Oklahoma, perhaps?) we would suddenly have double 3-degree linking to every Big 12 South team, as well as 2-degree linking to every SEC East team. Throw in the rest of the conference, and there’s no reason we couldn’t have multiple 2- and 3-degree linking to every other BCS team in the country.

There is a tractor in the parking lot, West Virginia license EIEIO. Your lights are on.

by leeharvey418 on Nov 25, 2008 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

My proposed solution to the lack of linking in D1-A: Mandate that every BCS school schedule at least one game a year against another BCS conference, and at least half the teams in each BCS conference must schedule two or more.

Big Ten, number of BCS conference opponents outside of the Big Ten:

Penn State: 2
Northwestern: 2
Iowa: 2
Purdue: 2
Michigan St: 2
Illinois: 1
Ohio State: 1
Minnesota: 1
Michigan: 1
Wisconsin: 0
Indiana: 0

The only real changes that that rule would’ve made in the Big Ten is to force Wisconsin and Indiana to play a BCS opponent. Half of the teams in the conference already did play 2 BCS conference (or Notre Dame) opponents.

To be honest, playing BCS opponents isn’t that big a deal. Playing a non-BCS team still gives you plenty of information. We know that we’re likely better than Ball State, for instance, since we crushed Temple far more than any other MAC team did. The problem is the organization of the conference – we all basically just played MAC, Big East, and PAC-10 teams. You want a few playing each of the conferences – or at least, as many as you can.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Nov 25, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay, but...

Run that analysis for the SEC and the Big 12, and suddenly their OOC is exposed for the sham that it is.

There is a tractor in the parking lot, West Virginia license EIEIO. Your lights are on.

by leeharvey418 on Nov 26, 2008 8:24 AM EST up reply actions  

OK

Big 12:
Baylor: 3
Colorado: 2
Oklahoma: 2
Texas A&M: 2 (-ish)
Texas: 1
Nebraska: 1
OK State: 1
Iowa State: 1
Missouri: 1
Kansas State: 1
Kansas: 1
Texas Tech: 0

It’s weaker, but not by a ton. The Big 10 would’ve needed 2 more games against BCS competition, the Big 12 needs 3 (but note that Baylor played one additional, and more teams in the Big Ten played no BCS out of conference opponents).

SEC:
Georgia: 2
Florida: 2
South Carolina: 2
Vanderbilt: 2
Auburn: 1
Arkansas: 1
Alabama: 1
Tennessee: 1
Kentucky: 1
Miss State: 1
Mississippi: 1
LSU: 0

Little weaker than the Big 12, but again, not by much: 3 teams would’ve needed to play 1 more BCS opponent, as opposed to the Big Ten’s 2 – and also note that only one team (as opposed to the Big Ten’s two) played no BCS out-of-conference opponents.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Nov 26, 2008 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Does any team actually need 7 home games, or do they just need 7 home games to provide over the top salaries to coaches and facilities?

Uh, it’s not like we pay over-the-top salaries to coaches. When Paterno retires and we have to hire someone at a real salary, those 7 home games become even more important.

I also don’t get the “over-the-top facilities” comment. The facilities at major schools are basically a little below NFL-level. You don’t hear anyone going to the NFL and saying “man, my facilities back at school were better.” You do, however, hear stories of kids from IAA schools gaining 10-20 pounds because the programs at their school weren’t able to feed them/work them enough to gain that muscle.

But this is all pointless: the reason athletic departments need that 7th game has nothing to do with football at all. They need that 7th game to subsidize other sports. Ohio State’s football program, in 2005, made $28M in profit. Men’s basketball made money ($7M). Women’s basketball lost a bit ($2M), but then the remaining sports programs lost $16M, and facilities costs for the athletic department in general were another $16M. And the largest cost (other than facilities in general) isn’t salaries or anything – it’s student aid.

Saying “we don’t need a 7th home game” is the same thing as saying “Sally doesn’t need a scholarship.”

Also, considering teams like Penn State and others with monster stadiums possibly make more $ in 1 or 2 home games than some teams make all season, I still don’t quite see why we need more games (not saying I don’t like or want them, but I really don’t see why we need them unless we are spending way more money than other places).

OK, now you’ve gone over the top – Penn State’s the largest stadium in college football, but it’s not 7 times larger than anything but a cream-puff team level. The only teams we make more in 1 or 2 home games than are the ones who don’t need 7 home games – and the ones you don’t hear in the Top 25 every year.

Are we spending more money than other places? Of course we are! We’re also far more competitive than, say, Pittsburgh. Are we spending way more money than Ohio State or Michigan? No. Do they need 7 home games too? Yup.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Nov 25, 2008 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

as far as salaries, I was specifically thinking “not Penn State”, but since this was a broad argument for all top schools, that’s why I included it

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 25, 2008 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

and I didn’t mean over the top compared to NFL. I meant over the top compared to division 1-AA and low tier, non-BCS schools.

And yes, I know football is the moneymaker for other sports. Other schools presumably have those other sports as well? I’m not saying I’m against some of the non-profitable sports, but perhaps some fiscal responsibility could come into play where 0.5-1 less home games a year still creates a budget that works.

Again, the “more in one home game” was in reference to those schools who still field football teams. I know we are way more competitive than them, and on par with the Michigans and Ohio States in the country, who, as you said, also need 7 home games. But, if every program went down from 7 to 6 or 6.5 on average, then it wouldn’t handicap any of those top schools relative to each other. Are you saying that Penn State is equally competitive as those schools with 7 home games each, but if you go to 6 home games each then we are suddenly less competitive? It is all relative.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 25, 2008 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Other schools presumably have those other sports as well?

Um, yes? And those schools require 7 home games. The schools that don’t require 7 home games are all relatively small schools, whose other sports are pretty small.

No schools that I know of that are of the size of Penn State/Ohio State/Michigan – or even Texas Tech or Boise State! – average 6 home games a year. Most average 7.

Are you saying that Penn State is equally competitive as those schools with 7 home games each, but if you go to 6 home games each then we are suddenly less competitive?

No, I’m saying if you go to 6 home games you can’t meet the athletic department’s needs. Going from 7 to 6 home games would cost between $2-5M/year, depending on the size of the university. You can’t make that up by cutting football salaries or reducing football facilities. The cost would have to come from another sport, and that’s not going to happen.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Nov 25, 2008 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

They could always bump ticket prices up 15%

I know everyone always loves increased ticket prices :-D

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 25, 2008 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m sure that alumni donations to the football program wouldn’t tank at all if they raised ticket prices and got rid of one of the home games. :)

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Nov 25, 2008 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I just feel that the point needs to be made:

I don’t know if it’s still true, but at least very recently Northwestern’s student tickets were included in the Student Activity Fee (or whatever they called it). If they’re only getting, what, $300,000 for an entire year’s worth of student ticket income, then collecting half a million to take a crack at a Florida or Texas every year has to make sense for them.

There is a tractor in the parking lot, West Virginia license EIEIO. Your lights are on.

by leeharvey418 on Nov 25, 2008 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Take a look..

Take a look at the Boise State link I posted. They also have free student tickets included in a student activity fee. They still end up making $1.86M per game.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Nov 25, 2008 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Key point there...

That $1.86M figure is gross revenue per game. Even then, the GROSS income only accounts for 43% of the program’s budget. If the Mid-Majors’ answer to USC (I would have said Notre Dame, given the inordinate amount of media stroking, but at least BSU can actually win a bowl game) is only taking in less than half of what they’re spending, imagine what a program like Tulane or Toledo does.

Maybe I’m missing something here, but I think we’re fundamentally in agreement that the basic problem with the system as it stands is that the average separation between D1-A schools is too large to form meaningful comparisons. At the end of the day, we need a system that provides entertaining games, reasonable bases for comparison, and economic viablilty for all involved. I agree wholeheartedly that allowing BCS schools to schedule D1-AA opponents runs counter to at least one of those (and usually two), but as long as it is still a money-maker it will still happen. If you eliminate 1-A/1-AA matchups, it’s not going to do anything to prevent anomalies like JMU’s current standing; but I think we can both agree that completely removing D1-AA from the sample pool, as you suggested, would.

There is a tractor in the parking lot, West Virginia license EIEIO. Your lights are on.

by leeharvey418 on Nov 26, 2008 9:02 AM EST up reply actions  

is only taking in less than half of what they’re spending, imagine what a program like Tulane or Toledo does.

Um. That’s 43% of the entire athletic department budget. Football makes a substantial profit.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Nov 26, 2008 3:18 PM EST reply actions  

circle of death

What happens to the circle of death team of one of their member loses to Missouri in the Big12 conference championship?
Do they all sink?

by confirmy on Nov 26, 2008 6:32 PM EST reply actions  

No

But only because Texas already beat Missouri. So a loss by Texas Tech/Oklahoma to Missouri wouldn’t hurt Texas much because it boosts Missouri equally. Missouri beating Texas, though, would drop both Texas Tech and Oklahoma.

Keep in mind when I say “drop” it’s not a huge amount, although that depends on the ranking system. You have to remember that Texas Tech is being propped up by Oklahoma and Texas – so if Texas drops, the other two drop a bit too – but it’s only 1 loss out of 30+ games.

Any unbeaten obviously has inertia – if you’ve got 10 wins, on average it’ll take you 10 losses to get back to average-ish – but a circle-of-death has more inertia because it would take a lot of losses to erode the quality of the win (and loss).

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Nov 26, 2008 7:01 PM EST reply actions  

The most annoying thing about a circle-of-death is that if the teams continue to beat each other in a round-robin, they end up all getting stronger in most systems. Even though their records tend to 0.500.

Lack of connectivity’s a bitch.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Nov 26, 2008 7:28 PM EST reply actions  

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Baller_small Eric Gibson

Small kmplatt