Success With Honor
Wow. Sorry I missed the fun on Friday afternoon. While you were all calling Rich Rodriguez a scumbag and MGoBlog readers were attacking my credibility I was wrapped up in blankets with the chills and a fever occasionally taking a break to puke my guts out. Thanks to all for the spirited and relatively clean debate.
I was just going to let this go. But it never sits well with me when people attack my credibility. As bloggers that's all we have. If you don't believe the things I write here you have no reason to come here and frankly we're all wasting our time. So I'm going to address this one time, and then after this post we will probably never speak of this issue again.
In Brian's post he specifically mentions four players Penn State recruited after the player gave his verbal commitment to play elsewhere. Those players are
1. Anthony Morelli
2. Antonio Logan-El
3. Deion Walker
4. Corey Lewis
So let's go through them one by one starting with Anthony Morelli.
An interesting sidenote to the Morelli story is that Penn State originally thought they had a silent verbal from Chad Henne. As the story goes Henne called the Penn State coaches on a Saturday night to tell them he was going to Penn State, but then between then and the press conference on Tuesday he changed his mind and announced for Michigan. Who knows what happened there, but I've heard some pretty shady things from some of the locals (I lived in Chad Henne's school district just outside of Reading, PA at the time.) But that's neither here nor there. The fact is that when the opening came up it was Anthony Morelli who called Penn State first.
"God has a plan for everyone," Jay Paterno said. "It's one of those things where one door closes and one or even two more doors open."
Before Joe Paterno gave the go-ahead to resume recruiting Morelli, he stipulated that the quarterback go tell Harris he was reopening the recruiting process, that he was no longer firm in his commitment to Pitt.
"Joe [Paterno] demands that people be up front in the whole recruiting process," Jay Paterno said.
So there you go. Anthony Morelli contacted Penn State first, and Joe Paterno demanded he be up front with the Pitt coaches. I defy anyone to show me anything shady here.
Now let's turn our attention to Mr. Logan-El.
"I was a bit nervous" entering the meeting, the 6-foot-5, 325-pound Logan-El said. "You never know how a person is going to react. They could say, 'You go ahead and look at other schools, we're going to try to find another player.' But they didn't do that.
"I told him what I was going to do so everybody would be on the same page and none of the coaches from Maryland would have to read on the Internet and say, 'Wow, Logan-El is opening up his recruitment.' It was tough because I didn't know what the reaction would be like."
Did Logan-El contact Penn State before he decommitted or after? We'll probably never know that. But the key point here is once again the recruit informed the schools involved that he opened his recruitment.
The paint is still wet on the Deion Walker situation so it may be some time until we know what went down there. But there were rumors of Deion Walker second guessing his verbal to Notre Dame from the day he committed until the day he signed. Insiders say it was he who called Penn State on the Sunday before LOI day. Not the other way around.
As for Corey Lewis, Brian cites this article which says Corey Lewis was originally a verbal to Illinois.
Ah ha! If there was a pact between Big Ten coaches then Joe Paterno went against it! Not so fast, my friend. The problem with that is the article is wrong. Corey Lewis settled on Illinois on signing day, but he was originially a Virginia verbal.
So rightfully Brian should retract his accusation that Joe Paterno recruited another Big Ten school's verbal commitment.
And the other members of the famed 2006 class with all the decommits we signed? Well, Pat Devlin had second thoughts about Miami after Larry Coker was fired. Bani Gbadyu was never solid in his verbal to LSU. The list goes on. High school kids change their minds. It happens all the time. Brian's right that it is part of the game these days. This year 200 kids decommitted from their original verbal agreement. I can't hold it against a kid for changing his mind, but I can hold it against him for the manner in which he does so. All indications were that Mike Shaw was going to Penn State right up until signing day. Even after he made an official trip to Michigan the Penn State insiders didn't seem worried. Why is this? Why didn't Rich Rodriguez insist that Shaw publicly reopen his recruiting? Why did Shaw string us along telling us he was solid to Penn State when he really wasn't? That's what I have a problem with here, and I'm curious to know Rich Rodriguez's role in it all. Did he instruct Shaw not to be upfront with Penn State? Did he plan this to make sure Penn State came up short in their recruiting needs?
Joe Paterno has a 41 year history of doing things the right way. Wolverine fans can point at the recent off the field issues, but Penn State fans can point at how those issues have been handled, with punishments, suspensions and dismissals. His program has always had exemplary graduation rates and has never once been investigated for recruiting violations. There is no reason to believe that Penn State does anything shady in the realm of recruiting.
Rich Rodriguez is another story. He suspiciously bailed on his alma mater after publicly proclaiming he was a West Virginia man for life. He called recruits to tell them he was going to Michigan before he told his own team. While his former team was playing in their bowl game he was sneaking into the office to shred documents. Now on signing day he steals recruits from Penn State and Purdue. You can say Tiller is crazy with his "gentleman's agreement", but it's not the first place I've heard of this agreement. Tiller just further confirmed it for me. So again, either RichRod was not aware of the agreement between Big Ten coaches or he blatantly chose to ignore it. For the sake of argument I'll say he didn't know about it. Regardless, isn't there any honor in recruiting anymore? I understand verbals are non-binding until they are signed, but still, isn't there a right way to do things? Why did the Penn State coaches believe Shaw was going to be signed and delivered right up until signing day? Why did Joe Tiller believe Roy Roundtree was going to Purdue? It just seems suspicious two players from the same high school would pull the same stunt. The common themes here are their high school coach and Rich Rodriguez. You can all draw your own conclusions. What's sad is that the Michigan faithful are so blind with rage toward beating Ohio State they can't see their fine program has sold its soul to win football games. I hope it's worth it.
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36 comments
Comments
Emperor UM
by queler on Feb 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So why did AM wait until 24 hrs before LOI were
by trueblue69 on Feb 9, 2008 4:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
false in small things, false in big things
The truth: While Rodriguez was discarding documents, it was a workday about a week before Christmas, and he was cleaning out his office in full view of an office full of people, none of whom found anything unusual in what he was doing.
If you tell a small lie like like that to bolster your story, what else might be false?
Let's look at what's really going on here. The rest of the Big 10 (and the rest of the country for that matter) has been content with Michigan as a sleeping giant that would always do things in a certain, predictable way. (note, that hasn't really done PSU any good, but whatever).
Now it is clear that Michigan isn't going to take anything for granted, and is going to do everything that the rules permit. Apparently that is enough to send both PSU and Purdue into hysterics. I don't get this "selling your soul" stuff. Why should Michigan have to sit by idly while the rest of the country is trying to poach all of its commits?
Have fun wearing the holier than thou hat, PSU fans. We threw ours away.
by danimal1968 on Feb 9, 2008 5:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
And I guess trying to recruit Cissoko this year after his verbal to Michigan was okay also?
The truth is, there is someone blinded by rage here, but its not us. It's PSU. Read your own boards. You guys have accused Michigan of cheating with refs, at recruiting, etc. etc. etc.
Michigan doesn't need to do anything underhanded to beat PSU. We've done it 9 times in a row. Get off the high horse
by DCwolverine on Feb 9, 2008 9:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pot. Kettle. Black
When the broadcast went live, his announcement turned into a puppet show of sorts. He was asked what school he would be attending and he held up a Florida Gators hat. The stunned silence in the ESPN Zone and on the air made it clear that no one knew what was going on. But then Logan-El talked a little about Florida but said he wasn't going there. He did the same with Tennessee and Maryland, and then showed a Penn State hat. He followed that up with a picture of himself with Joe Paterno and said he was headed to State College, Pa., to the roar of his family and the jeers of the Maryland faithful. The kicker was that he said he chose Penn State because of a value system he coveted, a value system that helped him choose the right program.
Logan-El might have picked the right school for him, and Penn State is a great program that produces terrific players on and off the field, but apparently his value system included stringing along Friedgen and his assistant coaches. It also included remaining committed to a program he knew he wasn't going to attend and rubbing salt in the wounds by making his announcement in Baltimore in front of a pro-Terrapin crowd he invited himself. And I'm sure the Florida and Tennessee coaches weren't too pleased to have to jump out of their seats for a second only to see him drop their hats on TV as well.
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=57064
Yep, real classy way to handle it. Inviting the Maryland coaches. Hypocrisy, thy name is PSU
by DCwolverine on Feb 9, 2008 9:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
don't you...
by lionalum05 on Feb 9, 2008 10:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Holier Than Thou
The question I ask is, would Lloyd have done these things? What about Darth Sweatervest? Barry Alvarez? Bo? Woody? My thought is no.
So, when we get a recruit taken from under our nose, what do you expect us to think when that scumbag pulls something not seen often in the Big 10? That it was a blip on the radar? Yea, sure.
When UM hired Rich, I lost all respect for them. I've spent the last few years rooting for freaking Pitt in the Backyard Brawl just because of my pure hatred for that man. Michigan hiring him allowed me to fuse my hates for both Rich and UM.
Go Buckeyes. Go State
by fugimaster24 on Feb 10, 2008 1:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
RR
by nittanyroar on Feb 10, 2008 10:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still waiting...
by nittanyroar on Feb 10, 2008 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DCWolverine
Do you know where Logan-El is now? I'll give you a clue, it isn't Penn State - he's transfered to Towson.
by stonewall435 on Feb 10, 2008 9:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
True Blue
by psuphiman80 on Feb 10, 2008 9:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Stonewall
Mike posted this "I can't hold it against a kid for changing his mind, but I can hold it against him for the manner in which he does so."
Well, if you can hold how Shaw changed his mind against RR, then it stands to reason you can hold how Logal El changed his mind against Paterno in PSU. But of course, you don't. Because you are hypocritical.
Oh, and fugimaster, everything you said about RR happened AFTER Michigan hired him. But you say you lost all respect for them once they hired him. Unless you expect them to be clairvoyant, you ought to rethink things.
And the fact that he left the school changes nothing. but nioce try
by DCwolverine on Feb 10, 2008 10:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Come Again?
First off, notice how people like Pacman and Chris Henry are the finest products that leave his program. He doesnt have any discipline in his program. He'll take bad kids because they can play football. And I'm sure you'll now attack me for our off-field stuff, but please, those players have been dealt with by JoePa, before they went off into the real world and got themselves into real trouble. THey'll learn their lessons in college, because they had a coach with some stones. RR has none. He is gutless, and wants to win football games, and THAT is why Pacman and Henry are the thugs they are today.
Pat White and Steve Slaton are products of th RR system. Could they be good football players? Probably, especially Slaton, but RR refuses to teach Slaton about any role other than his own on the football team. Why do you think his stock has plummeted in the last year? He may well have some good football players on his team, but his refusal to develop them into complete players again shows he is more intrested in winning football games than he is in making the best of his players, and getting the best ones ready to earn a living in the NFL. Does anyone even know what happened to Rasheed Marshall?
The point here is, I've watched RR be a jackass, even before West Virginia was any good. I used to like them because they could beat Pitt, but then I started to see what the program was really about, and I turned on them, even to the point that I would root for my most bitter rivals over them.
So please, don't give me this crap that RR only gets a bad rap for what he did in leaving WVU. He was a douchebag while he was there too.
by fugimaster24 on Feb 10, 2008 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm
Second, if off the field incidents are a measure of a program, then you shouldn't be casting stones. And yeah, Paterno slapped those guys hard. i mean, after cause the incident, Scirotto never saw the field, right? Oh wait ...
Finally, are you kidding me about player development? Heard of 5 star players like Derrick Williams and Anthony Morelli. Those guys have blossomed at PSU, right? RR has done more with less at WVU while PSU has done less with more. It's not even a question.
Seriously, stop. Just stop. Because you embarrass yourself further with every comment.
by DCwolverine on Feb 10, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do they teach you how to read in Michigan?
If you want to compare Scirotto to Pacman then so be it, but its you that is embarassing yourself, because your comparing apples and oranges. Scriotto took some of his boys to go kick some kids ass for taunting him and his girlfried. Pacman was a key contributor in an incident where a man left the scene paralyzed. Its a case of brawl vs. bullets my friend. Even so, Scirotto WAS suspended, although he didnt miss any game action.
Finally, while Jay Alford was killing Tom Brady in the Super Bowl, Pacman was sitting at the stri....I mean home, having not played the entire year. What does that say? Would you like me to look up the figures on the number of pros from the two schools? I have a feeling you'll look even sillier than you do now.
Good Day.
by fugimaster24 on Feb 10, 2008 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
By the way, let me laugh at your statement "He was suspended but he didn't miss any game action." yes, very tough punishment. Did they also not let him have milk and cookies after dinner.
Further, the simple point is, you attack RR for not developing his player, but its clear he gets more out of his players than PSU. Let's compare QB's shall we. Pat White was a 2 star, AM was a five star. Who was more productive in college, improved with time. Okay, let's compare running backs. Austin Scott vs. Slaton. Or Derrick Williams vs. Darius Reynard. Check out the total defenses this year of each teams. If you you really are trying to make the argument that PSU developes talent better than RR, you either are blind to reality or just don't understand football.
And Brian didn't sic any of us on you. We came because you made some serious accusations that seemed awful flimsy. And when confronted with evidence that shows how hypocritical you guys are, it gets ignored. Sorry if thats bothersome, but thats the internets for you
by DCwolverine on Feb 10, 2008 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No I guess They Don't
- RR is an asshat at WVU.
- Michigan Hires Asshat/ All respect for Michigan lost.
- Asshat calls Pryor before telling WVU/ Trying to screw WVU out of 4 million dollars.
And Finally, if you want to compare "more with less" explain the Rodney Kinlaw phenomenon? I know it must be fun to take pot shots at Austin Scott, but we did actually have a 1200 yard rusher on the team this year, and its not like he was anything special when he got the job. I'm pretty sure thats getting more with less.
So, I'm going to take Mike's hint and leave you alone now. See you in the fall.
by fugimaster24 on Feb 10, 2008 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
You pointed to one player, but conveniently left out Morelli, Reynaud, and total defensive statistics. But whatever
by DCwolverine on Feb 11, 2008 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hmmmm
And I'm not making excuses for Morelli. We don't develop QBs as well as I would like, but, I'd take Morelli to run our offense over White any day. He's a product of the system.
by fugimaster24 on Feb 11, 2008 12:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One More Thing
Just looking up the statistic most readily available, Penn State graduated 83% to WVU's 64% in 2005. West Virginia was one percent below the NCAA average of 65%. Michigan was at 68%, aka higher than West Virginia.
I'd take a pot shot at the Michigan graduation rate, but Penn State is very good at it, and Michgan was above average under Carr. I'm willing to give you that. Also, Lloyd got his kids drafted and prepared for the pros much better than RR has. See, I'm not even comparing RR to Penn State anymore. I'm comparing you to what you were vs. what you've become.
All in all, you didn't hire RR to graduate kids, you didn't hire him to get kids into the NFL, you hired him to beat Ohio St. Fine. I just hope we don't see the day that OSU pushes Tressel out the door to beat you scumbags to win one football game.
by fugimaster24 on Feb 10, 2008 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
RRod
I can't fault the guy for leaving WV, that state is a dump and it's hard to recruit people there but the way he did was shady. I just hope he continues to recruit the same kind of people he did at WVU. They will be the Miami of this century.
There is no point in reasoning w/ UM fans, they will never admit RR is anything less than a god, but when the job opened many people on MGo only wanted a Michigan Man. They claim all PSU fans are blind, some are but many are calling for change, pissed about our players actions last year, and wrote the president after the OSU incident w/ some students. To me that is not being a homer, it's being honest.
by SweepTheLeg on Feb 10, 2008 12:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Let's dissect some statements, shall we?
Suspiciously? How is it suspicious that he takes one of the top ten jobs in college football? Ever told a woman you loved her and thought she was the one, then things change? It's the same. Feelings change. Your use of the word "suspicious" is on par with Tiller trying to invoke fearful reactions of impropriety where none is evident.
"He called recruits to tell them he was going to Michigan before he told his own team." True, factual statement. He had called a team meeting to let his players know, in person, and then started in on his new duties as head coach at the University of Michigan. While perhaps a bit overzealous, not unethical. He already had a recruiting relationship with Pryor, not wanting the kid to hear it from the media first is not unlike not wanting his current players to hear it first. Do you think Captain Sweatervest would've waited to call and take advantage of the situation if it had broke in the media first? Something tells me no.
"While his former team was playing in their bowl game he was sneaking into the office to shred documents."
Blatantly false. He was in his office in the middle of a weekday afternoon with a ton of support staff around, AND nothing has come of this story. There was no "sneaking". If you don't want your credibility to be put into question, don't make misleading statements.
"Now on signing day he steals recruits from Penn State and Purdue. You can say Tiller is crazy with his "gentleman's agreement", but it's not the first place I've heard of this agreement. Tiller just further confirmed it for me. So again, either RichRod was not aware of the agreement between Big Ten coaches or he blatantly chose to ignore it. For the sake of argument I'll say he didn't know about it. Regardless, isn't there any honor in recruiting anymore? I understand verbals are non-binding until they are signed, but still, isn't there a right way to do things?"
If you choose to hold onto this notion I guess I find it noble. If we're doing what is legal to get our recruits I'll have no problem with it- win or lose. And Tiller? He's like the nice guy in high school who's dating the pretty girl with braces and glasses. she gets them off, blossoms between sophomore and junior year, and ends up dating the starting qb. Life's not fair. Purdue isn't U of M. Maybe someone could send him a memo.
"Why did the Penn State coaches believe Shaw was going to be signed and delivered right up until signing day? Why did Joe Tiller believe Roy Roundtree was going to Purdue?"
Maybe because the kids hadn't told them they weren't sure? I doubt if R2 was asking them to keep their decisions quiet like some evil genius twisting his mustache in a plot to destroy Purdue and PSU.
"It just seems suspicious two players from the same high school would pull the same stunt. The common themes here are their high school coach and Rich Rodriguez. You can all draw your own conclusions."
Wait- wh-huh? Have you ever met an 18 year old male? I think there's probably a lot more common themes than R2 and their high school coach. Like Mrs. Grable, who taught them all 10th grade algebra, or the fact they all wanted to date Jenny Thompson, that brunette with the huge rack. Seriously? You're going to throw around innuendo like that? The conclusions I'll draw is that they all went to the same school. Perhaps they wanted to play together? They all knew each other? Wouldn't it be much more odd if two players from different schools- who knew nothing of a Michigan recruit at a third- suddenly jumped ship on signing day? Your argument baffles me.
Nice blog man, it looks like you do good work, but come on. Vague wording about "drawing your own conclusions" is sketchy. Don't put yourself and your school on Purdue's level. You're starting to sound like Michigan state fans.
by Ninja Football on Feb 10, 2008 5:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Dead Horse
by RoaringSprings on Feb 10, 2008 8:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
by BSD on Feb 10, 2008 9:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Won't you address the John Goodman accusation?
by Wolverade on Feb 10, 2008 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He must be talking about Jay Paterno
by BSD on Feb 10, 2008 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Evidence #5
Choice quotes from the article:
"
Goodman received a call from a Penn State assistant whose negative approach did little toward that end.
"They definitely tried all the negatives," Goodman said of the coach whose name he couldn't recall. "They talked about coach Weis, how he's a bad coach, he's a bad recruiter and about how Notre Dame's doing terribly right now and all that, their stadium's better. They never really said anything good about themselves, and I was just listening and I was like, `Whoa, this guy's an idiot.
"
BSD. You magically assume that for every recruit, he was wavering and contacted PSU before you guys initiated. It is an assumption which has no ground. You have words like "insiders say". No facts to support your assertion.
You argue based on a premise which is an assumption.
by Wolverade on Feb 10, 2008 8:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Insiders Say
I'm not saying Penn State doesn't call recruits after they verbal to another school. They stay in contact with them. Maybe call them once in a while to see if they are still solid. Maybe let them know the PSU offer is still out there for them. I'll admit that. But there is a difference between talking and recruiting. I don't believe they start selling PSU and trying to convince them to switch unless the kid expresses interest in them first. And then only after the kid informs his original school that he intends to reopen his recruiting, something Shaw and Roundtree, who were recruited by Rodriguez, did not do.
I know you all want links and quotes and documentation with social security numbers and nuclear codes. But it's not that simple. My belief comes from following Penn State recruiting for years and observing trends and behaviors. So when I see a kid like Goodman say something like that my first reaction is to say it's odd and sounds out of character for the PSU coaching staff. So I tend to think he's embellishing things a bit. Maybe he's trying to demonstrate his loyalty to Weis and Notre Dame. I'm looking at the big picture. You guys want to lock in on specific instances, which I think I've answered. But this exercise of "Well what about this guy?" is getting old.
I'll admit my glasses may have a blue tint to them when you guys admit Rodriguez's first month in the Big Ten has been a bit shady. Not legal or illegal...shady. Deal?
by BSD on Feb 10, 2008 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To sum it up
If it's about Penn State, you assume the best thing which puts PSU in a good light ( recruits contact PSU first. Not the other way around).
Bit of homerism. If your posts are sarcastic, we'd welcome it ( like RUTS ).. But you seem pretty serious with your assertions.
by Wolverade on Feb 10, 2008 8:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
SweepTheLeg,
We are just defending at MGoBlog that R-Rod is not a "devil" -- as you mentioned in this post.
Our defense that he's not a devil doesn't mean we think he's a god. Two different things.
You see the world in 2 shades. RR is not as bad as you guys make him to be. He's not a saint also.
by Wolverade on Feb 10, 2008 8:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not calling RR the devil
by BSD on Feb 10, 2008 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"the devil"
You are correct RRod is not the devil.
That position is occupied by Hilary Clinton!
by SweepTheLeg on Feb 11, 2008 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just for you!
Be careful on that website, though. He has unflattering (To say the least)pictures from protests in Berkeley involving naked hippies.
by MarkoMancuso on Feb 11, 2008 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Selling our souls
Now, I think most UM fans wish that he would have handled things differently w/ WVU. Their AD/Gov/fanbase may be insane, but that doesn't mean that he has to sink to their level. But getting a coach of that caliber to leave his alma mater isn't going to be clean. I think this is why most UM fans are giving him a pass - which is not, IMO, selling our souls.
As for recruiting, the simple thing is we don't know what RR was telling Shaw/Roundtree. If PSU makes recruits tell their schools they are opening up their recruitment, right or wrong, I think they are in the vast minority. Every year kids go to sleep 'one school' and wake up 'a different school'. It almost happened to UM this year w/ Sam McGuffie. The kid visited Cal the weekend before - after virtually no mention of them before - and delayed sending in his LOI bc he was seriously considering going to Cal. Be upset w/ the way an 18 yr old kid handled it if you want, but to blame RR of shady dealings is a little much.
by tbliggins on Feb 11, 2008 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not again.
Have at it, boys. I'll let y'all have the last word on this.
by BSD on Feb 11, 2008 2:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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