Response to "Pitt Who?"
First of all, we're beating a dead horse with this.
Second of all, this whole write-up is an insult to people who think (thank you Bill Walton). Its an insult to people who can actually make a reasonable case against playing Pitt (Jesse). It is flagrantly ignorant of where the Pitt program stands in reality, and is hopelessly misinformed.
Aside from the fact that you repeated the first section of this piece of garbage twice (as if once wasn't bad enough), I will now go through this piece by piece, because its so full of holes, it could be the Pirate infield.
"Yes, the sad truth is that while the alumnus from yesteryear would relive tales of epic Nittany Lion - Panther games, the new generation of Penn State fans have moved on and Pittsburgh excites them as much as Syracuse. A more prestigious opponent when compared to Temple, Akron and Central Michigan, but offers as much value to the Penn State football program as a box of tampons."
---Ok. Over the last week, I've heard the point made that beating Pitt simply doesn't matter because eveyone has moved on from the rivalry, as you've stated here. However, when I argue that beating Pitt would help recruiting in the WPIAL a ton, these SAME PEOPLE tell me that in Pittsburgh, you're either going to play for Pitt, or you're going to play for Penn State, regardless of how a particular player is recruited. This implies that most kids around here are either/or when it comes to Pitt or Penn State. I'm pretty sure that would constitute a rivalry, or at least a perceived rivalry in the minds of the various kids being recruited to play by either school. If someone has their mind made up not to got to Pitt simply because they're Pitt or vice versa, theres a rivalry, and its among the people whose opinions matter more than any of ours: the players'.
"Why would we lock ourselves into a long term contract with Pittsburgh when we could have rotating opponents like South Florida, USC, Alabama, Syracuse, and Virginia. You are not only talking about fresh new BCS opponents descending upon Happy Valley every two years, but the chance for Nittany Lion fans to visit new venues, towns and states in the process. A long term series with Pittsburgh would generate what? A chance to look forward to the city of Pittsburgh every two years? I'd take a raucous college atmosphere over an empty stadium, bridges and tunnels any day of the year."
---Ahhhhh, yes, nothing like a roadtrip to exciting Syracuse, New York to get the juices flowing! In all seriousness, give me one reason to believe South Florida or Syracuse, both members of the SAME CONFERENCE AS PITT are any more legitimate than the Panthers? South Florida had one decent season, and now they're the flavor of the month. However, Pitt won the Big East only a few seasons ago, and they play in much the same situation as South Florida. Both schools play in pro stadiums. Both are located in prospect rich areas. Both are fighting for recruits with bigger programs in their state. So tell me, what is the difference between Pitt and South Florida other than South Florida's record last season? I see none. Additionally, going to Tampa isn't really opening a new land to Lion fans. We went to the Outback bowl there only 2 years ago. If you're trying to build an arguement against playing Pitt, including South Florida and Syracuse in it is one of the dumbest things you could do.
Furthurmore, playing Pitt would generate FAR more buzz than playing Syracuse or South Florida. Look at 2005, when we brought South Florida in as a cupcake. How much buzz did that game generate genius? On the national richter scale, effectively none. Reviving the Pitt series, almost by default, would be a bigger deal than routing South Florida. It would be a game with national appeal, if only for history's sake. Also, Pitt beat WVU on the road to keep them out of the National Title game. THats as pressure packed as it gets, and Pitt delivered sending shock waves throught the college football world. They're a program on the way up, and to argue against that is based in ignorance. O, and by the way, if Penn State played in Pittsburgh, the stadium would be packed. Believe it or not, there are a few PSU fans in Pittsburgh.
"Its a sorry revelation, but Pittsburgh has become less of a quality opponent than fellow Big East member Rutgers or even Louisville, once considered a basketball power."
---If you think that, then you're basing it on two football seasons. Thats pure bullshit, and theres no other way to describe it. It would be like me saying Obama is going to win the election because he got 80% of the vote out of 10 people polled. Seriously. Get a grip on reality. Football programs don't completely rise and fall in two years. If that were true, PSU would have been incredibly screwed at the beginning of this decade.
"A simple look at the Sagarin ratings for the last 5 years tell the tale. Only during the dark ages of the Zack Mills era, Penn State would have benefited from playing Pitt and even then we would have been extremely competitive.
Penn State Pittsburgh
2007 26 66
2006 18 45
2005 4 59
2004 63 55
2003 71 39"
---They win 2 years, we win 3 years. That only hurts your point. Its like saying a team that wins 3 outta 5 in a baseball series is infinitely better because they won one more game than their opponent. I don't know what reasonable person would think this helps an arguement against Pitt.
"Playing Pittsburgh would simply be unnecessary dead weight. True, they are a much better opponent than Temple, East Carolina or Central Michigan, but those teams serve a much greater purpose than simply showing up for the game. Those games are almost a tune-up, an extra fall scrimmage to prepare the Lions for the real meat of the schedule when conference play begins. Unlike the NFL where preseason games serve the same purpose, the Lions schedule these patsies so we can prepare ourselves for the Big Ten matchups against another team not dressed in a Lion's uniform."
---Huh? In the last paragraph, you couln't knock Pitt down enough, but now they're too good to play? Explain this. I'm dumbfounded. Whcih is it? Do they suck, or are they good competition? If their neither, do they not fall in between an Alabama and a Temple? Don't we have 2 other non-conf. games in which we could schedule a "tweener" like Pitt? THaving a few of those on the schedule rather than some intramural teams help us develop some testing under fire, even if that fire isn't as hot as it could be.
"If Penn State were to schedule Pittsburgh, it would mean replacing Alabama, Syracuse, Oregon State, Virginia and Notre Dame from our schedule, not Temple, East Carolina and Western Michigan as oblivious critics of Joe Paterno claim. We simply can't afford to pad our non conference schedule with opponents that actually registers a pulse on offense and defense. We already have enough of that during Big Ten play, it would be overkill to do so in our non-conference portion. Get the big picture here?"
---No, frankly I don't. This paragraph makes so little sense, I can't begin to understand what you were thinking when you wrote it so I'm not even trying on this one. We can't pad our schedule with teams that have a pulse, but we can have Alabama? I think what you might have been trying to sqeeze out is that we should play one good team and the rest cupcakes. Thats silliness. You can't do that. You can play one or two pastys, but you also need a team that has a pulse. You can't just walk into Ann Arbor like we did this past season after having played a bunch or crappy teams an expect to be sharp. Pitt would offer a mild challege, which you need in developing a team.
"We CAN schedule Pittsburgh, but are we willing to sacrifice possible rotating matchups with the likes of Alabama, Notre Dame, Syracuse, and Virginia to do so? Bring on the legions of Alabama crimson, Irish green and gold, Syracuse orange and Virginia shirts and ties. At least playing those programs will guarantee that we will see at least 20 of them which is more than Pittsburgh can say for their empty stadium on game day."
---Who says we have to "sacrifice" them? There are 4 non conf. games. Theres plenty of room at the table for everyone. Also, if you think that only 20 Pitt fans would show up for a Pitt-Penn State game, YOU are the oblivious one.
The rest of this arguement goes on to cut Pitt off at the knees to make yourself feel taller, which is pure ignorance on your part. There was a time not long ago that we sucked, and they were playing in BCS bowls. Were we too good for them then too? Were they just a marginal team then? I think not.
Pitt has had a rough couple of years, but the cupboard was left bare when Walt Harris was fired. THe Stache took down the #2 ranked team in America on the road, in a rivalry game with the whole world watching.. If you suck THAT BAD, you don't pull things like that off. Pitt is a far better program than a clear ignoramus like yourself will ever give them credit for, so please, do all of us self-respecting college football fans a favor, a stop brining misinformed arguements like this to the table. They really take away from what was, for the most part, and intelligent and well informed debate.
0 recs |
11
comments
Comments
I appreciate your fervor...
- The majority of this generation is apathetic towards Pitt. That's just the way it is. I think I can say with certainty that most, if not all, PSU fans would rather end our losing streak to scUM than play and beat Pitt next year.
- Good seasons will bring good recruiting classes. We don't need to go into Heinz Field (giving Pitt their only sellout of the year, no doubt) and beat Pitt to attract the WPIAL kids. I guarantee you that if we beat OSU, UW and UM and win the Big 10, the kids will remember that PSU is a force in CFB. The real battle for us is convincing these kids not to go somewhere warm, or more so, to convince kids from these types of climates to come to us. It is not a battle of statewide supremacy...if we have a great year, the kids will realize that contending in the B10 is WAY more ideal than finishing in the middle of the pack in the Big Easy.
by Cpiritual27 on Apr 11, 2008 8:16 AM EDT 0 recs
As if
by Joe 96alum on
Apr 12, 2008 9:36 PM EDT
up
0 recs
the importance of rivalry
The insignificant horseshit about Toledo, Woody and Bo, etc., it's all window dressing, something to talk about at a tailgate. It might make the game feel more important, but it doesn't add to the actual relevance at all.
Case in point...Florida State and Miami. Those schools still hate each other with the fire of a nova. Who cares? They play in September; neither of them is as good as they were ten years ago, and as a result, the hype that used to surround this game is gone.
The rivalry between Kansas and Missouri pre-dates the civil war, but we only bothered to tune in and watch those people hate each other when it affected who was going to go to the BCS.
Look at the records of the Pitt & Penn State since 1993. Then recognize that the game would be played in September if the game was renewed. If you do those two things, you have to agree that this game has zero national relevance. None, even if we never stopped playing. Might in the future...did in the past...whatever. Today, it would not be an important game.
To play a home and home series, in perpetuity, with a regional rival in a game with no national interest or relevance is a bad idea. If you remove yourself from the hysteria and irrational long term hatred between the two schools, the facts are pretty clear. We don't need to play Pitt to have a strong out of conference schedule. We shouldn't need to "hate" our opponents to have a good time on a Saturday.
by jesse. on Apr 11, 2008 9:40 AM EDT 0 recs
No One Is Saying
However, I find a game with Pitt much more intresting than a game with South Florida or Syracuse. Thats all I'm saying. If we're going to start scheduling middle of the pack Big East and ACC teams, I don't understand why Pitt can't be one of them.
Schedule you're big OC game, whoever it is, at home, and schedule Pitt on the road, the switch it, Pitt at home, Big game on thr road, and sprinkle in a couple of cupcakes. Thats a good non conf. schedule.
by fugimaster24 on
Apr 11, 2008 11:09 AM EDT
up
0 recs
no subject
Pitt is saying that.
I find a game with Pitt much more interesting than a game with South Florida or Syracuse
Okay, that's a fair opinion; I don't even necessarily disagree with it. But Pitt won't play us on the terms that USF and Syracuse are/were willing too. Pitt can't be one of the mid-level Big East teams we play, because they are insisting that they be the only mid-level Big East team we play. I'm not down with that at all.
Even if they would play us on those terms, would you really want to play Pitt every five or six years for two games? That just seems like the worst of both worlds to me. Even I think that if we play them, we might as well play them, if only to avoid the 12-0 nonsense of the past eight years.
by jesse. on
Apr 11, 2008 11:36 AM EDT
up
0 recs
Well
And yes, the "12-0 Joe is afraid" crap would end eternally if we played them a couple of times right now. We could then say "we don't care LALALALALALA" and actually have a couple of ass kickings to back us up.
by fugimaster24 on
Apr 11, 2008 3:33 PM EDT
up
0 recs
still no subject
Pitt fans might be all over this. This University of Pittsburgh has no interest. It's not all on Penn State that this game doesn't get played, Pitt plays their part.
They could accept a three and two like they do with Notre Dame. Nope.
They could give the Nittany Lion Club 25,000 seats to sell at Heinz Field. Nope.
Secretly, I don't think they want to play us anymore. Right now they're in Pitt nirvana, in their world they won the last game, and we're too afraid to play them. VICTORY! HAIL TO PITT! Da da da da da...PENN STATE SUCKS!
Of course this is all bullshit, because...
We won seven in a row before that, and if we hadn't stopped playing them after the 1992 season, it would have been 13. Stopping this series in the early 90's was an act of mercy, because we were very good, and they were very, very, bad. It would have been ugly.
That's the point. It's all bullshit. They don't want to play us anymore than we want to play them. They are just in position to make it appear that they want to play, and then make a unreasonable demands to ensure that it never happens. Not playing Penn State makes the job of every administrator and coach at Pitt easier. They could win thirty games in three years, but lose three straight to us and they're fired, and they know it.
by jesse. on
Apr 11, 2008 4:48 PM EDT
up
0 recs
Whoa Now
The University of Pittsburgh is desperate for a sellout, and not only that, the revenue they could generate by tying the season tickets to the Penn State game. It would be a cash cow for them if they got even one game against PSU in Pittsburgh. As I said, they'd make considerably more money than they have in recent years combined, so don't say they're not intrested in playing us once, because they are. The sticking point is they're insistance on giving them an equal amount of home games.
by fugimaster24 on
Apr 12, 2008 11:05 AM EDT
up
0 recs
Playing in September
If they were playing this year, the game would be on ABC at 3:30 or maybe ESPN at 5:45 like ND was last year. And imagine if old JoePa was right and the Lions contended for the BCS title this year and Pitt built off of its WVU win and had something like a 9-3 record. Then the 2009 game would be on at 8:00 in front of a national audience.
by Joe 96alum on
Apr 12, 2008 9:45 PM EDT
up
0 recs
Pitt and Money
Yes, in fact I had season tickets from 2000-2003 (Pitt student tickets are seriously only $20, it's so cute). I stopped getting them because the place was never sold out, I'd rather watch football on TV on Saturday, and in the event I wanted to go, I can always get tickets because I am an alumnus (Law 2003). My $50 contribution to the Panther Club scored me Notre Dame Tickets in South Bend a few years ago, and guaranteed me four, yes four, tickets to the Fiesta Bowl that year. $50 bucks barely gets you a sticker for your car from the Nittany Lion Club. I was not even eligible to ask for tickets for Notre Dame or the Orange Bowl from Penn State, let alone get them.
Like me or hate me, you have to admit I'm a pretty big Penn State fan. If I am one of Pitt's better supporters, what does that say about the state of their football program?
You don't think they could sell 25,000 seats to Pitt fans
Of course they could. That's not the point either
The point is, there are concessions Pitt could make to play the game. They don't want to make them, and that's fine by me. By giving Penn State a larger block of tickets, it could eliminate the need for the 3-2, and make the game a true home and home. They'd still make their money, just not as much.
But I didn't think this was about money? I thought it was about hate and tradition and rivalry? If it's only about money, I say fuck `em.
by jesse. on Apr 12, 2008 12:34 PM EDT 0 recs
Yup
by wookieeman on Apr 12, 2008 3:23 PM EDT 0 recs













