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Dorian Bell

Dorian Bell, a top 25 recruit from Gateway HS, outside of Pittsburgh, commited to Ohio State earlier today. It is a small article, but it could be found at
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08112/875261-100.stm

Star-divide

It would have been nice to see him here, but if there's one position that we have a blue-chipper turning us down it would be linebacker. The 6-foot-1, 215-pound linebacker turned down a list of schools that include Michigan, Pitt, West Virginia and Florida State. Gateway also has a talented receiver in Corey Brown, so we'll see how that affects his recruiting. Justin King was the last player we got from that school, with kids like Cam Saddler, Bell, and Shane Hale keeping us in their top five then picking other schools

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So what
I'm not broken up about this. He was never really high on Penn State. He made a visit and I remember reading afterward he made some comment like "They have a lot of linebackers there. It's going to be hard for me to get any playing time."

Well, if that's your attitude, then sorry. Penn State probably isn't for you anyway. He's looking for a place he can step in and play right away without much effort. I guess Tressel promised him what he wanted. But if that's his attitude then OSU can have him as far as I'm concerned.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Apr 21, 2008 10:45 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So What?
Anothe 5 star from PA going to OSU over PSU and that's OK?. We need a dose of reality here. If OSU can find a spot for him then we can, considering they have far more talent than we do across the board. You think OSU isnt also loaded at linebacker? If no one has noticed, OSU is aiming for National Championships and we are trying to battle for third (not very sucessfully) in the Big 10, an average conference.

This is disastrous.  The best players in Pennsylvania are going out of their way to not play for PSU. No other major program is having the same problem. Not one.

by TRW88 on Apr 22, 2008 10:08 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not really.......
they have only signed 8 4 star and 1 3 star LBs over the last 3 classes :)

I agree with you by the way.  Teams that get guys to commit despite being loaded are the ones that "reload" and don't "rebuild".  

Get ready for an onslaught of responses to your post talking about how over rated recruiting is and that our 4 stars are higher character than their 4 stars.  Its fairly predictable.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Apr 22, 2008 10:18 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm ready to hear how recruiting is overrated.
A lot of people who say that talk like we're still a top program. They're living in the past.

It seems like FL, TX, LSU, USC and Ohio State, etc., think it's pretty important. You know, top calibre programs.

They can talk, they shoot for national championships while we think competeting for third place in the Big 10 is a reasonable expectation.

by TRW88 on Apr 22, 2008 12:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Recruiting
It's not so much that recruiting itself is overrated.  I think it's websites like Scouts and Rivals that are a little overrated.  They devise their own ranking system based on certain physical attributes of a 17 or 18 year old high school kid and then designate said player an X-star recruit.  Us Sunday morning QBs browse these sites and immediately wonder why we aren't going after this recruit or that recruit because we automatically assume it must be infallible information if it's on the internets.

These sites are merely an educated guess at how this kid, strong emphasis on kid, is going to develop over the next 4 years.  The 40 times, the bench press, etc are all great for getting a rough idea, but they don't tell you half the picture.  

We can't completely base our faith in the program on how well Rivals/Scouts says we did in the offseason.  To do so would be to accept their criteria as THE standard, whenever their job is to simply sell subscriptions.  We need to judge our recruiting classes on the Penn State standard, which does include the physical tangibles but a lot of the intangibles as well.

Remember, Rivals listed Poz and Tony Hunt as 3 star recruits and they turned out to be the rocks of our defense and offense before heading to the NFL.  Maybe we can defy Rivals again this year with DC (another 3 star).

Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.

by 06Lion on Apr 22, 2008 12:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great talent.....
But....his concern about playing lineback at PSU is real.   High School kids want to come in and play right away now.   Meyer and Tressel tell them that they can come in and have an 'opportunity' to start....the PSU staff is probably a little more honest which is what kids don't want to hear.   PSU is loaded at Linebacker and we always will be.  WE ARE....Linebacker U. We will be fine at this position depsite losing this kid to OSU.  

I have to remind everyone who buys into the recruiting website BS.....Stefon Green was a two star player and now he is being touted as the second coming.  BTW....Poz and Lee were only three star recruits out of high school....so I think the coaching staff KNOWS what it is doing when it offers kids (and they did offer Bell).  Backer is not a big need for us this year.  DBs, WRs and QBs are the big needs.  IF we pull in the requisite number of quality kids to fill those positions we will be fine!  Judging from the Blue/White game, 08 has the opportunity to be a special year.  Realistically this could be one of the best PSU defenses ever if the DBs step up.   Let's keep the negativity to a minimum and get excited about 08!

I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Apr 22, 2008 1:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Always loaded at LB?
You mean like when we had Ron Graham and Gino Capone?  Maybe most of the time, but not ALWAYS :-)

by JGuiher on Apr 23, 2008 8:53 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

With all due respect
Take your five stars and shove them up your ass. I'm supposed to get upset because Bob Lichtenfels thinks the kid can walk on water? Please. How did Chris Bell work out for us? And man I wish we had passed on that loser Deon Butler. Why are we taking kids that only get an offer from Akron?

The Penn State coaches went after the kid, but he wasn't interested. He said our depth chart was too full of good players. We're loaded at linebacker so why complain? A few years ago we took a boat load of great defensive linemen. Ever since then all we can get is a few project type kids to commit to us. That's the way it goes.

These kids aren't stupid. When given the choice of going to school A and sitting on the bench for three years and going to school B and playing early they will pick school B nine times out of ten.

Step away from the ledge. Wait until February to judge our recruiting efforts this year.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Apr 22, 2008 1:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Amen!
Let's get ready for 2008!
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Apr 22, 2008 1:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Presuming This Response......
was directed at me.......I am not near the ledge.  I just think its much easier to dismiss recruiting agencies when the team you pull for isn't anywhere near the top of their rankings.  I am sure if we were in the top 10 in the recruiting rankings people on this site would be going apeshit.

Similarly, I seem to hear a lot of talk here about how over-rated speed is and how the SEC speed blah blah blah.......but the 2nd Stehpon Green breaks a run off in practice everyone here is having involuntary ejaculations over how fast he is.  Just cracks me up.

I could go on and on about this, but frankly I already have.  I'll take my chances on 4 and 5 star Johnny and Mike, you can poke and hope that the pipeline is full of walk on's and 3 stars that pan out.  The end result will be what we have now.....here are a few stats I posted in the Je'Ron Stokes thread (we probably forgot about that talent exodous already, guess Penn State is loaded at WR too).

Only 10 teams in the country have particpated in 3 or more BCS games since 1999.  Over the last 5 years those same teams have averaged recruiting classes according to rivals as follows:

LSU 9
USC 3
Miami  10
Florida 6
OSU 10
Okla. 8
Mich 9
FSU 8
UGA 7
Va Tech 27

Va Tech with an average recruiting class ranking of 27 is also the only one of the 10 teams listed to be winless in their BCS appearances.

Penn State 22

So while I understand the notion that recruiting is subjective and you never know what you are going to get........the teams that are winning more games and playing more often in significant bowls are also recruiting top 10 classes consistently.  Take it for what its worth.

Additionally, see our record against Ohio State and Michigan over the last 10 years 3-15.  

I'd love to discount what the recruiting services say, but I can't.  Of course there are going to be surprises and busts, but when evaluating overall classes they seem to be fairly accurate.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Apr 22, 2008 1:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One More Thing.......
I hope you are right Mike.  I am looking forward to 2008 as well because I think we are going to be pretty damn good.

Having said that, I think its insulated to dismiss the recruiting agencies ratings of players.  I don't recall hearing anyone upset when we landed Morelli or Williams or King...and I didn't hear anyone going apeshit when we landed Tony Hunt, Daryl Clark, or Poz.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Apr 22, 2008 1:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That is understandable...
...because Rivals and Scouts is all we have to go on.  None of us have seen these kids play, so Rivals/Scouts are all we have to go on.  But we should take any rating a kid gets from them with a grain of salt and temper our reactions accordingly.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.

by 06Lion on Apr 22, 2008 2:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Morelli......
Didn't you bitch about him all the time on this site?  Doesn't his ranking as a 5 star player show that the rankings aren't all they are cracked up to be?   If you want to look at the big difference between PSU, OSU and Michigan....its the OL recruiting.  They literally get bigger players than we do.
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Apr 22, 2008 3:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Morelli
Maybe it's coaching which might be a good place to start when examining the reasons for not getting the best skill position players.

They want to be number 1 draft choices and if they're as good as they think, come out early.

Derrick Williams rightly or wrongly was rated extremely high and while he is a nice player and has had a decent career, I think the reality hasnt lived up to expectations. I think players with that rep are taking notice.

Morelli and Henne were both 5 star players and although we wanted Henne, he is going to be a high draft choice and Morelli will be lucky to catch on as a free agent. If that is coaching or not its difficult to say, but it doesnt reflect well on the next 5 star QB choosing between Michigan and us.

by TRW88 on Apr 22, 2008 7:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

great post ech2os...
those numbers really put it into perspective. it does show how important recruiting really is today. Here's what logic tells me...

Uncertainty of head coach = lost top recruits

Lost top recruits = lower ranking of PSU recruit class

lower ranking of PSU recruit class = not competing for national championship or BCS bowl bid

no nat'l championship or BCS bowl = mediocrity

it also equals us going 3-15 against THEM and tOSU.

by Stately NOVA Lion on Apr 22, 2008 2:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ahhh......
Did ya forget that we were just in the Orange Bowl in 05....a BCS bowl after getting F*d out of a Michigan victory.

If we are back in a BCS bowl this year or even the Capital One....assuming OSU wins the conference and the Big 10 only gets one BCS representative....is that a bad thing or suggest the program is in decline?  Get off your crack rock if you think it does.

I agree that the losses against Michigan must stop...but PSU is far from what I would consider a mediocre program.

Think about it....do you, as a Penn State fan, really know what it is to experience prolonged losing at PSU???  Not really people.  We had a couple of bad years but jesus....the last three years we are 29-9!  WTF?  Get your heads up and get excited about 08.   This team is going to surprise some people...starting with the defense.
This is probably the Best d-line ever at PSU and most likely th Best d-line in the country (Including all those top schools Eric mentions)!

Whether we start Clark or Devlin this year....we do not need an immediate superstar.  We need someone who takes care of the ball and does not put us in bad positions (opposite of A.M. at Illinois).  If we get that....there are not many teams on or schedule who can beat us!

I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Apr 22, 2008 3:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

29 and 9
15 of the 29 are gimmes.
I like our chances this year and also love our d line, but I agree, we are probably playing for second.

by TRW88 on Apr 22, 2008 7:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There are no gimmes
Just ask Michigan about Appalachian State

by PSU Nick on Apr 22, 2008 10:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True
... and I'd add that most schools' win-loss records have a similar number of so-called "gimmes" on them.  It's just how things work.

by BSM PSU 93 on Apr 23, 2008 9:56 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There are gimmies
It's just that at aren't many "gimmies" in the Big Ten. With the possible exception of Minnesota, there was not one single road game in the Big Ten that you could just write down as a win.

A game anywhere on the planet against Appalachian State wasn't a "gimmie" last year.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Apr 23, 2008 10:32 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Even though
I fit your profile of someone who dismisses recruiting rankings and roots for a team that isn't usually very high in them, I don't think my opinion of them would change if Penn State was routinely in the top ten.  

My distrust of recruiting rankings comes from reading "The Blind Side," a great book by the guy who wrote "Moneyball," and it includes a chapter about the guy who more or less invented independently evaluating high school talent.  I understand why those services are worthwhile, but, especially in light of the book, I understand why those ranking should be taken with a grain of salt.  

Speaking of books, I have a feeling that "How to Lie with Statistics" is sitting on the bookshelves of Eric's Atlanta home.

Nevertheless, I do think that a) recruiting is important and b) a trend of PA recruits going to OSU is troubling, regardless of where they're ranked by the websites.  I'm not ready to say that there's a trend yet, but it's starting.

by spakajewia on Apr 22, 2008 3:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you don't think recruiting is important???
hopefully you meant that in another way, because I don't think anyone here would say recruiting isn't important. maybe you meant that recruiting so-called "five star" prospects isn't that important. i would agree with that.

recruiting to fit the program is just as important as recruiting good players. it goes the same for recruiting/hiring new coaches...look at michigan. I said from the beginning that, although RR is a good coach, he is a horrible fit for THEM. A school that has run a PSU like offense (just not as conservatively as us) for decades hires a coach that runs a spread offense for a team that does not have a spread offense quarterback.

That's putting all your eggs in one basket.....cough cough pryor

by Stately NOVA Lion on Apr 22, 2008 4:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

re-read the comment
i said that I DO think recruiting is important; I just think that the RANKINGS are dubious.  

And I agree, you've got to recruit for your program.  

I've heard JoePa say before that he puts a high premium on football players who are also excellent at lacrosse, because he thinks there's a lot of crossover in skills.  Assuming Joe's right about that (and Jim Brown-the football hall of famer and greatest collegiate lacrosse player of all time--suggest that he is), it's an example of a coach knowing something about players (or players who would fit his system) that the rankings probably don't account for.

by spakajewia on Apr 22, 2008 4:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ooops.
sorry, reading too fast.

by Stately NOVA Lion on Apr 23, 2008 9:49 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I try, but I can't
I just can't put a lot of stock in those recruiting rankings. They seem to be heavily weighted toward the skill players. A lot of people agreed that Stankiewitch was probably the best center prospect in the country, but he was only a three star player according to those sites. Those rankings are also heavily based on the size of your class. When you only sign 15 kids you don't have a chance of being ranked in the top 25 on those sites.

A lot of times you see a guy listed as a three star player. Then he commits to USC and suddenly the recruiting service "re-evaluates" him and gives him another star. I swear some of these recruiting bozos who never played a down of football in their life will give a kid an extra star just because he gets an offer from USC or Florida. So forgive me if the recruiting ranking argument doesn't exactly impress me.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Apr 22, 2008 5:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It isnt about rankings, it's about who isnt coming
There is no question a lot of the HS recruiting is hype, but we still recruit all of the 5 star players, including Dorian Bell (whom we oferred early).  I think it's safe to assume if they were to accept we would be excited to have them. I think it would increase interest in the program and fan sites like this as well. I dont see any down side to us getting the highest ranked players that we offer.

There is nothing good at all to say about the top players in your home state choosing to go elsewhere, and it's happening with increasing regularity. I think it's important to understand why this is happening.

by TRW88 on Apr 22, 2008 6:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

OK, it's who the coaches want
 Correct me if I'm wrong, but didnt we offer Bell early?  And just about every other highly ranked kid in PA last year and this year?

Doesnt that mean the coaches want them?

The fact is we arent getting them and the program languishes as a second tier power.

Why?

by TRW88 on Apr 23, 2008 10:43 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bell, yes? Every highly ranked kid? No
The coaches offer who they want. Sometimes they're top rated, a lot of time's they're not rated yet. They come or go for any number of reasons, Bell's is up being debated right now: did he not want to compete or did he misunderstand what Joe said to him? Last year we offered Hale and ended up getting 3 linebackers to commit before he made his decision. That's the way it works sometimes. Coaches target who they want, but target more than they can take, because no one gets them all. Not even USC.

by PSU Nick on Apr 23, 2008 12:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Joe Can't Win
A few years ago everyone chided him for settling for the best talent PA, NJ, and MD had to offer and completely giving up on the rest of the country. Now we're plucking kids from OH, LA, MI, and TX and he's getting hammered for not landing the local talent.

Sure it would have been nice to land Bell, but the kid visited the school and decided Penn State wasn't for him. So be it and move on I say. I don't get bent out of shape over individual choices.

But I will concede there is a trend I'm concerned about. The trend of these kids loving Penn State enough to list us in the final two or three, but not loving us enough to pull the trigger. I have to think that's due to Joe's age and contract situation. Once that clears up and we get a new coach and new offensive staff, look out. Until then just enjoy the ride the best you can and appreciate Joe for who he is.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Apr 22, 2008 11:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

John Ditto
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Ditto was from Gateway High as well.

by blt on Apr 21, 2008 11:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ditto was from there
you're right, Ditto is from there.

by WPIALkid22 on Apr 22, 2008 5:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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