Who cares if we don't have a "Rival"
Do we need one?
I know I love to hate OSU. I just plain despise Michigan. If neither of those teams thinks we're the devil, who cares? Only in college football could we looked down upon because other teams don't hate us. I still look forward to OSU and Michigan every year with the hatred of a rival. Who cares if they don't think of the same way? I'm going to say that not caring about what their fans and players think of us should go hand in with hating that team.
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Guh
- Find horse, preferably dead. If alive, shoot horse in head 7 times.
- Apply sharp blows with blunt instrument.
- Rinse
- Repeat
by 06Lion on Apr 8, 2008 7:42 PM EDT 0 recs
You Raise a Good Point
by fugimaster24 on Apr 8, 2008 10:07 PM EDT 0 recs
I agree with you and fugi too...
What i'm really missing about not having a rival is the cool name that would go along with said game, ie: The Holy War, Backyard Brawl, the BorderWar, Red River shootout, the list goes on and on.
I think we should think of a good game name and then worry about hating a team to fit that name.
by platnumkid on Apr 9, 2008 1:32 AM EDT 0 recs
Can you create a rivalry?
OK, here are some thoughts. I was bored this morning, so I decided to write some stuff out. If you aren't interested, don't read. It's just my theory on rivalries and rivalry-building...
I think rivalries, to be genuine, have to grow organically over time. As suggested, among other things, they have to result from teams taking the opportunity to screw each other in important situations. The competition also has to be highly competitive. It's hard for a rivalry to be considered genuine when one teams wins the majority of the games. As Fugi noted, that's why Michigan has no reason to either hate us or consider us a rival. It's not at all unreasonable to suggest that the PSU/OSU series has been rather competitive, despite the fact that OSU's record of wins against us is growing more and more lopsided. Unfortunately, they already have Michigan, so the PSU/OSU series will always be a one-sided rivalry.
So, we don't have a rival right now. Sad (to some people), but true. If we actually thought it were reasonable to "search for a rival", what would we have to consider? In addition to potential competitiveness, I think the most essential components of a good rivalry include, in relative order: geographic proximity, degree of program success, fanbase commitment, breadth and depth of football tradition, and type of institution. With these things in mind, I can think of two institutions with the real potential to work as rivals: West Virginia and Virginia Tech. Other options (including Maryland, Rutgers, Syracuse, Boston College, and even Pitt) all fail to meet at least one of these criteria. Pitt actually fails to meet most of them.
I'll leave it at that. Of course, as others have noted, including Jesse, we should REALLY be concentrating on beating Ohio State and Michigan. If we start giving them headaches and actually lay claim to being one of the Big Three in our conference, we won't have to speculate on potential rivals. We'll have acquired two of them, organically.
by BSM PSU 93 on Apr 9, 2008 9:08 AM EDT 0 recs
Penn State/Pitt
by MarkoMancuso on Apr 9, 2008 9:19 AM EDT 0 recs
Beast of the East
I also think that is what the winner of the game got to call themselves.
The game pre-dated the application of a name to every rivalry, which has more to do with TV marketing than fericity of the rivalry. I don't believe that it ever had an "offical" name. Not that I think that speaks to the quality of the rivalry one way or the other.
by jesse. on
Apr 9, 2008 11:30 AM EDT
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Thanks
by MarkoMancuso on
Apr 10, 2008 10:24 AM EDT
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Penn State/Pitt
by nittanyfaithful on Apr 9, 2008 10:04 AM EDT 0 recs
The Battle of Route 22
by jesse. on
Apr 9, 2008 11:32 AM EDT
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Rivalry Post Script - FWIW
If you have a copy of the ESPN College Football Encyclopedia, and for the love of god you should, in it's write ups on individual teams it discuses their biggest rival. Obviously Penn State is listed as Pitt's, but Penn State is also noted as the most hated opponent for both Syracuse and Maryland.
I think you could probably say the same about Rutgers, Temple and to an extent WVU as well. We left a big hole in the middle of eastern football when we "left", obviously we're still in the east, but the focus of the program is now decidedly Midwestern. The corollary with Maryland being in a league with all southern schools is not missed either.
The solution to the rivalry problem lies in Big Ten expansion. Sooner or later, the league will give up on Notre Dame, and the obvious solution will be to look to the East for a twelfth team. I have my ideas as to who it should be, but rest assured, I don't think it should be, or will be, Pitt.
by jesse. on Apr 9, 2008 12:17 PM EDT 0 recs
Expansion teams
Personally, I'd love to see Maryland get into the conversation. They have the Baltimore and D.C. markets cornered. Boston College would be intriguing as well... though they're so far northeast that I'm guessing most Big Ten athletic directors and coaches would have a heart attack over the very thought of inviting them.
by BSM PSU 93 on Apr 9, 2008 1:00 PM EDT 0 recs
West Virginia
West Virginia is, like most Big 10 schools, is a hub for the state. The entire state of West Virginia hovers over WVU religiously. They're a football school with a solid basketball program to go along with it. I think they'd be a good fit, except for the fact that they'd open no new markets.
That said, I'd like to see another team out of the midwest join up. Mizzou and Nebraska jump out at me, and Texas, though likely a pipe dream, would be awesome. The Big 10 has a lot of cash to throw around, and I think they could make a tempting offer to just about anyone.
by fugimaster24 on Apr 9, 2008 8:09 PM EDT 0 recs
Not possible
Pitt, Syracuse and Rutgers all do though, as does UConn I think.
by jesse. on
Apr 9, 2008 9:39 PM EDT
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I wasn't serious
by fugimaster24 on
Apr 9, 2008 9:59 PM EDT
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WVU
It isn't sexy, but the Big 12 theam that would be most likely to join the Big Ten is Iowa State.
by jesse. on
Apr 10, 2008 8:56 AM EDT
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The other interesting choice is Nebraska
by PSU Nick on
Apr 10, 2008 10:53 AM EDT
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Interested in more
by jtothep on
Apr 10, 2008 1:04 PM EDT
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Iowa State
Last I checked Iowa State was ranked about the same as Penn State in the US News rankings. It takes a pretty progressive Big Ten fan to think that Rutgers would be a good fit in the league. Whereas, Iowa State would fit tight in.
There is also some organization, that I can remenmber the name of, for something like the top 1% of colleges nationwide. Every Big Ten School is a member of that. That is the benchmark the Big Ten uses.
by jesse. on Apr 10, 2008 2:14 PM EDT 0 recs
Obviously, I can't remember the name
by jesse. on
Apr 10, 2008 2:15 PM EDT
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Association of American Universities
I am pretty sure this is it.
Every Big Ten School is in it, and my understanding that membership in the AAU is the benchmark academic qualification for entrance into the Big Ten. Of course, Notre Dame is not a member. But then they really aren't joiners anyway.
Iowa State is a member, along with Pitt and Syracuse.
by jesse. on Apr 10, 2008 4:33 PM EDT 0 recs
Missouri
You can be sure that unless it's Notre Dame the Big Ten is going to look outside of their current footprint of states to expand.
by BSD on Apr 10, 2008 10:27 PM EDT 0 recs
Thinking Eastward
by BSM PSU 93 on Apr 11, 2008 9:12 AM EDT 0 recs
Iowa State
Missouri has stated, pretty clearly, that they don't want to leave the Big 12. They need to play Kansas, and have found playing in Texas to beneficial. Iowa State has no similar ties, and makes much more sense in the Big Ten.
Fifty years ago the fact that ISU joining the Big Ten makes perfect sense might have mattered. But I agree that the conference wants to "expand its footprint" (buzzword bingo anyone?) and "capture the NYC market". If anyone would like to debate whether adding Rutgers, or god forbid Syracuse, to the league would actually accomplish this, start a thread and I'll be there. My suspicion is that the results would be disappointing.
by jesse. on Apr 11, 2008 10:16 AM EDT 0 recs
Well...
by BSM PSU 93 on Apr 11, 2008 1:23 PM EDT 0 recs
I'd rather see
If you follow the links in previous posts, you'll how unique the Big Ten is in terms of academic standing and athletic success. It's quite prestigious. It's something that I think that Penn State people generally don't take enough pride in.
It seems to me that Penn State earned its way into the Big Ten on the basis of athletic and academic achievement over a period of decades. I'm reticent to fully support Rutgers, who has little or no athletic tradition of any kind save three decent football seasons, simply because they are close to New York City. Frankly, I don't think that New York City is ever going to be a hotbed of Big Ten football, either with or without Rutgers.
I'm not opposed to Rutgers, I'm just skeptical.
by jesse. on
Apr 11, 2008 3:05 PM EDT
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