Outside The Lines Is Crossing the Line
by BSD on Jun 10, 2008 8:02 PM EDT
in Penn State Football
36 comments
It all started a few weeks ago when a well known message board poster with ties to the program dropped one of his imfamous "Brace Yourself" posts. He was alerting Nittany Nation that ESPN's Outside the Lines was snooping around State College working on a piece about Penn State's off the field problems in recent years. This week it was confirmed. (H/T RUTS)
Mark Wogenrich, one of our Penn State football bear writers, tells us that ESPN's "Outside the Lines" investigative TV show is pursuing a story about the legal issues involving the Lions' football team since April 2007.
This has all the signs of a journalism with an agenda. ESPN isn't going to devote weeks of investigative work without going back to Bristol with a story. And you can bet that story will not say "You know what, it turns out things are pretty good at Penn State." Reading the following comment on RUTS about this topic from a self-professed Penn State faculty member just confirms my belief.
I received an email on April 28th from Steve Delsohn about being interviewed for this piece. He was looking for a PSU faculty member to go on record about their dissatisfaction with the legal problems with the football program.
I responded that while I think that big time college athletics in is bad for higher education in general and for Penn State in particular, I thought that things at Penn State would be much worse without Paterno. Further, I wrote that I didn’t trust Spanier’s judgment in replacing Paterno.
I also declined to come out from behind my pseudonym.
Mr. Delsohn thanked me and asked me if I could suggest a faculty member to interview who would go on record as being dissatisfied. I could think of none.
Sounds like fishing for a quote to me. Just go from one faculty member to the next until you find someone to back up your claims. Then paint with a broad brush to make it appear the Penn State faculty is up in arms over the football program. I'm guessing nobody is contacting Joe, the other coaches, or the players for an interview either. And if they are they will probably be denied.
Many people are pointing to "The List" floating around the internet lately spelling out all of Penn State's problems with the law in recent years. You've probably seen it, but here it is in case you haven't compliments of Run Up The Score.
PENN STATE PLAYERS ARRESTED SINCE 2002
1. Maurice Humphrey - Arrest, Assault & Prison - Guilty
2. Maurice Humphrey - Probation Violation - Guilty
3. Maurice Humphrey - Fake ID Probation Violation - Guilty
4. Tyler Reed - Drunk in Public Summary Charge - Guilty
5. Andrew Richardson - Drunk in Public Summary Charge - Guilty
6. Rashard Casey - Arrest, Assault, - Dismissed
7. Anwar Phillips - Arrest, Assault, - Dismissed
8. T.C. Cosby - Arrest, Assault, - Acquitted
9. Michael Robinson - Ice-Rink Fight - Summary Charge
10. Lavon Chisley - Arrest, Sexual Assault, - Dismissed
11. Paul Jefferson - Drunk In Public Summary Charge - Guilty
12. Ed Johnson - Ice-rink fight Summary Charge - Guilty
13. Matthew Rice - Ice-rink fight - Summary Charge - Guilty
14. John Bronson, Arrest, Assault - Dismissed
15. Jeremy Kapinos - Drunk in public - Summary Charge
16. Tom McHugh - Hitting a woman - Summary Charge
17. Tony Johnson - Arrest, DUI - Guilty
18. Richard Cheek - Arrest, Stolen Credit Card - Guilty
19. Yaacov Yisreal - DUI - Guilty
20. Dan Drogan - DUI Leaving Accident - Guilty
21. Dethrell Garcia - DUI - Guilty
22. Scott Paxson - Criminal Mischief, Summary Charge - Guilty
23. E.Z. Smith - Drunk in public - Summary Charge - Guilty
24. R.J. Luke - Arrest Assault - Acquitted
26. Mike Sothern - Terroristic Disorderly Criminal Mischief - Guilty
27. Mike Sothern - Criminal Mischief Expelled - Guilty
28. EZ Smith - Criminal Mischief Summary Charge - Guilty
29. Scott Paxson - Criminal Mischief Summary Charge - Guilty
30. Tyler Reed - Criminal Mischief Summary Charge - Guilty
31. Andrew Richardson - Criminal Mischief Summary Charge - Guilty
32. Ed Johnson - Sexual Misconduct Arrest - Guilty
34. Dan Connor - Criminal Mischief Phone Summary Charge - Guilty
35. Nolan MCready - Criminal Mischief Phone Summary Charge - Guilty
36. Jim Kanuch - Criminal Mischief Summary Phone Charge - Guilty
37. Paul Cronin - Drunk In Public Summary Charge - Guilty
38. Scott Paxson - Sexual Assault & Aggravated Indecent Charge - Guilty
39. Francis Claude - Arrest At Bar Disorderly Conduct - Guilty
40. Ed Johnson - Failed Drug Test Condition of Parole - Guilty
41. Lavon Chisley - Murder Charge - Guilty Life Sentence
42. Anthony P. Scirrotto - Burglary, criminal trespass, criminal solicitation, simple assault, harassment. - Trial Pending
43. Chris I. Baker - Burglary, criminal trespass criminal trespass, disorderly conduct, harassment.
44. Jerome A. Hayes - Criminal trespass, disorderly conduct, harassment. - Dismissed
45. Justin King - Criminal trespass, disorderly conduct, harassment. - Dismissed
46. Tyrell A. Sales - Criminal trespass, disorderly conduct, harassment - Dismissed
47. Lydell R. Sargeant - Criminal trespass, disorderly conduct, harassment - Dismissed
48. Andrew Quarless - Underage Drinking - Guilty
49. Willie Harriot - Underage Drinking - Guilty
50. Austin Scott - Rape, Drugs - Trial
51. Joe Suhey - Underage Drinking - Guilty
52. Ryan Breen - Underage Drinking - Guilty,
53. Joe Paterno - Road Rage - No Charges
54. Chris Baker - Felony aggravated assault, simple assault, disorderly conduct, summary harassment and stalking, - Pending.
55. Navarro Bowman - Felony aggravated assault, simple assault, disorderly conduct, summary harassment and stalking, - Pending.
56. Knowledge Timmons - Disorderly conduct and defiant trespass - Pending
57. Tyrell Sales – Under age drinking 2008 - Pending
58. Chris Bell Dismissed from the team off the field issues and academics
59. Phillip Taylor Dismissed from the team off the field issues and academics
60. Andrew Quarless Suspended, charged with DUI.
61. Chris Bell Dismissed from the team for threatening a teammate with a knife in team dining room.
There are gross omissions and mistakes in this list. For instance, the list makes no mention of the fact Lavon Chisley was no longer with the team when he committed murder. Tyrell Sales was charged with disorderly conduct, not underage drinking, and the charges were thrown out by the judge the next day. And several of the charges from the Apartment and HUB fights have been dropped recently as well.
RUTS has a call out to fix this list. He's asking for help to research each item on the list to come up with a true list representative of the facts. BSD whole-heartedly supports this effort. Get to it busy little google stalkers!
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Media
They won’t stop until they’ve publicly destroyed Joe Paterno’s legacy, will they?
Cockgobblers. I’m fed up with ESPN. Sportscenter spends 30 minutes on the NBA, which no one watches. The next 30 minutes are spent on the Red Sox or Yankees. Bill Simmons and all the other douchebag Boston writers get plastered all over ESPN.com. They constantly report and repeat every story about every instance one of our players gets in trouble, but conveniently forget to report when the charges are dismissed. One might think that for some reason, they have an agenda against PSU. Why, who knows?
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
by 06Lion on Jun 10, 2008 9:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And the charges...
Give me a break. Half of the charges are alcohol related or “criminal mischief”. That’s called a typical Wed-Sun night for me at Penn State.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
by 06Lion on Jun 10, 2008 9:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sports Media
The sports media in general is out to get athletes, no matter where they’re from, for ratings or readership. This is not unlike the Entertainment Tonight or Insider approach to doing business. Americans love to see people fall,. Thus, so does the media. This is unfortunate, because sports are supposed to lift people up.
Duke Lacrosse, Steroids, Kobe Bryant, Reggie Bush, O.J. Mayo, the list goes on and on. Many of these types of “scandals” would have gone unnoticed 10 years ago, and in the case of steroids DID go unnoticed. The media has been able to take guys and make them “cheaters” even though the things they were doing at the time were not against baseball rules. The truth is, bringing down athletes and institutions through journalistic investigation means big $$$ for ESPN, because they have the resources and air time to do it. This isn’t a Penn State thing, its a cultural thing.
A byproduct of this ruthless “take no prisoners” style of ESPN is that they’ve got us, and everyone, by the short ones. The more dirt they dig up on a place, the more leverage they have to do whatever they want. Its brutal, and selfish.
If I were PSU, I’d take even a rumor of something like this, and run with it. The Big 10 has already started to cut the tentacles that bind them to ESPN and ABC with their creation of the BTN. Fox is the parent company of the BTN. Between FSN as a cable outlet, and FOX national, I don’t think its unreasonable at all to think that a deal could be worked out between the conference and the network for TV rights. Fox is clearly trying to establish themselves in the CFB market. Adding a cornerstone conf. to their arsenal would leave ESPN and ABC staggering. All they’ll have left are the NBA FInals, NASCAR, and some SEC football to hang their hats on.
I’m aware that something like this would break tons of agreements, and probably isn’t practical, but that does not mean we can’t make a threat. Leave us the hell alone, or we’ll fight back, and you’ve got a lot more to lose than we do.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Jun 10, 2008 10:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well
They wouldn’t have gone unnoticed 10 years ago. Nebraskans well remember the hit job done on our program after Osborne won his national titles in the 90s. Everyone remembers Lawrence Phillips, but the media came up with a whole lot of stuff beyond that, whether meaningless or not.
And it played very well across the nation. People ate it up. You mention that sports are supposed to lift people up, but a lot of times fans are their own worst enemy by pointing out other program’s problems rather than being a fan of their own.
Go Big Red Nebraska!
Our Cobs Are Bigger Than Yours!
Corn Nation!
by Jon Johnston on Jun 10, 2008 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Outside the Lines
Is a good show. It’s far from hatchet journalism, in fact, it’s one of the few places in sports where any actual journalism is practiced at all. I’ll be interested to see what they come up with. If this were a story about Ohio State, we’d treat it as gospel. That’s a fact.
I think it will be a fair story. If Joe Paterno doesn’t go on the record in it, shame on him.
For the Glory; National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994
by jesse. on Jun 10, 2008 11:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Oustide the Lines is an outstanding show and I will wait until I’ve seen the report before forming an opinion one way or the other. Not sure how they’ll present it, but a quote from Joe isn’t entirely necessary and especially not if all they have to go on is a specious list. I would hope Outside the Lines has more integrity than Ron Cook who tried quoting the contents of the list in an article he wrote that would then be cited in a Stewart Mandel piece on CNNSI.
by PSU Nick on Jun 11, 2008 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Disagree
They won’t ask Joe for an interview, nor anyone else on the staff. What they’ll do is what they did to OJ Mayo. They’ll jump him in a vulnerable position where it will be hard for him to make a good response. Thats how they do it.
OTL gave the hatchet to OJ Mayo, knowing full well that he was only trying to circumvent the horrible system that is the NCAA/NBA one year-and-out policy. It is so anti-player, and I don’t blame him for trying to find himself an agent before he left school. I’d go into the problems with college basketball, but it would be a really long rant.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Jun 11, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I watched that story too
What makes you think that they didn’t ask OJ Mayo for an interview but he refused? You know, just like Reggie Bush has done for the past three years.
Were not sweaping this story under the rug. The right thing to do is admit a problem, give our side of the story and do our best to correct it.
OTL gave the hatchet to OJ Mayo, knowing full well that he was only trying to circumvent the horrible system
So your beef is not with the stories accuracy? You just feel bad for the kid, because he’s a victim of a “bad system” that lets him go to college for free? Whatever, that’s your perogative. But if after I see the OTL story I’m satisfied that the story has been reported accurately I won’t have any complaints, and frankly, the story won’t be that interesting.
For the Glory; National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994
by jesse. on Jun 11, 2008 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Irresponsible
Did you bother to confirm that list of PSU players arrested?
A lot of it is truth, but a lot of it involves non-players, exaggerated claims, false claims or petty stuff.
by smokybandit on Jun 11, 2008 6:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think that’s the point smoky, that list is circulating, Mike didn’t alter it at all. He’s trying to point out that there is a rather large misconseption between what is going on and what is not. The point isn’t to make excuses for the charges, it’s to create an acurate list that includes players who were on the team, desribe what the actual charge was, and then give the result.
If you know of any errors, please do correct here the comments, I think that’s what Mike is going for here.
I’ll start:
50. Austin Scott – Rape (not drugs) – all charges dropped before trial.
by Kevin HD on Jun 11, 2008 7:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
First off
Anything that has “dismissed” next to it needs to go. So that takes care of #6, 7 ,44, 45, 46, 47
The most troubling incidents were Chisley, Humphrey, and Bell. All of three of them were not on the team when they happened.
by speedomike on Jun 11, 2008 9:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I also agree...
Outside the lines is a good show… However I would like to see them also report on the correlation between a number of these bogus charges and the jerkoff DA…
Furthermore and unfortunately, it’s very clear that high profile people in sports or athletes from high profile teams are always guilty until proven innocent… I’m not saying that PSU hasn’t had some problems as of late, because they have… but is it nearly as bad as people portray it to be? Is it any worst than any other college or pro athletic organization? I say NO.
I agree with Kevin and would that probably close to a 1/3 of these names should be removed for charges dismissed, they were acquitted or simply we’re not associated with the team. Next, look at the repeat offenders. Repeat offenders are just troubled kids who need help in one way or another; this should not be looked at as a reflection of the program. Finally look at the number of "drunk in public summary" charge. Obviously we (or at least I) don’t know the extent of the circumstance of these charges but I do know this… I went to PSU, I lived on Beaver Ave, and you can give 75% of the people walking the streets at 2am a "drunk in public summary" charge… this is another bogus charge give to the high profile student athlete for something kids all over the world are doing…
Regarding the names on this list I say should be removed…I’m sure some people are going to look at this post and say something like these people shouldn’t have put them in position to ever be charged… yeah I get that, but I have to look at like this; if they weren’t Penn State football players would there be any charges at all?
Please make no mistake, I’m not defending the other charges because those charges are very serious and there is no excuse for them. All I’m saying is don’t look at list of 60 some odd charges and come to a conclusion that JoePa and PSU has lost control…
by WETSU on Jun 11, 2008 9:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This story sells. . .
The media is a business and thus always has an agenda. They want to make money and this story will sell. Unfortunately in this case the media is kinda right, Penn State has had quite a few off field issues. We have always been a class act. Paterno promoted the “Grand Experiment”. Our student athletes are students first . etc. Over the past couple of years we have seen our image tarnished by off field issues and the media knows that our once ivory tower isn’t so ivory anymore, but that is the story. The media will spin that as many ways as they can until some other story comes along that will sell better.
You can get annoyed with the media but the problems they are pointing are problems that need to be taken care of within the program. Solve those and the media won’t have a story.
by bmg125 on Jun 11, 2008 10:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Grand Experiment
Lots of kids get in troubke in college. I think one of the ways we turn the story around is by explaining how many of those kids got right with the law, graduated, and becam e productive citizens. Like Dan Connor.
For the Glory; National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994
by jesse. on Jun 11, 2008 10:26 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The absolutely right approach
Bobby Engram used to be my trump card when arguing this stuff against Nebraska apologists in the 1990s.
Too bad Paterno didn’t apply the same discipline to this current batch of players.
by M1EK on Jun 11, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too many names..........
That list is too long even if its half bullshit. Whether we are “just like every other program” would depend on corresponding lists for other schools similarly populated. I don’t know if we are at this point.
Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.
by ech2os on Jun 11, 2008 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
list too long
I don’t care how badly we don’t want to dwell on it, this list is too long. When a program has built its name on doing things the right way, this is going to draw attention. Wishing the media would write stories about all the kids who graduated and went on to become contributing members of society is fruitless. As journalism 101 students learn, “Dog Bites Man” is not news. “Man Bites Dog” is news. When the PSU football program has 61 incidents which draw the attention of the police in 7 years, it’s going to draw the attention of the media. Just a fact of life. I’m more saddened by the fact that these incidents happened than I am by the fact that they’re going to be made into a news story, even if many of them are relatively minor incidents and a fair number were never proven in court. Here’s looking forward to a better, cleaner 2008.
by nittnut on Jun 11, 2008 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That List
Where did that stupid list come from? Does anyone here know? I first saw it on Laschout.com (gasp) a few months ago, but that certainly doesn’t mean it originated there.
Let me point out that the list has influenced more than a few “journalists” since its inception. I think many of us remember Stewart Mandel’s horrible article for SI a few months back. Those who read it remember this quote, which suggests (at least to me) that he got hold of the list as well:
”...according to the Centre Daily Times, more than 60 Nittany Lions players have broken the law since 2002. “
Of course, Mandel doesn’t actually cite the list because it’s not a credible source. Instead, he references the Centre Daily Times. I guess he either made a phone call to the CDT or read an article in it. I find it interesting, however, that he was (supposedly) given a figure in the 60s. I mean, please… the CDT is clearly well aware that 60 Penn State football players have NOT been found guilty of crimes over the past six years or so. That’s just ridiculous. And it tells me that Mandel obviously had an agenda (i.e. dragging down our program – “Thug U” in his words). I mean, can you imagine how excited Mandel must have been when he heard that number? And it goes without saying that he was more than happy to simply presume it was 100% correct (and clear evidence of some underlying crack in the foundation of our program).
My point is that, whether or not he saw the list (and, again, I’m guessing he did), he wanted to believe that something is horribly wrong at Penn State. A lot of Paterno detractors (and PSU detractors in general) want to believe that. Whoever wrote the list obviously does as well.
You can read Donnie Collins’ analysis of the article (from 4/22/08) below. He writes for the Scranton Times-Tribune and does a really nice job.
by BSM PSU 93 on Jun 11, 2008 12:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He was referencing Ron Cook
who referenced the list, fantastic piece of journalism Ron.
by PSU Nick on Jun 11, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Why am I not at all shocked it was Ron stinkin’ Cook? And what made Stewart Mandel believe someone like Cook was a credible source for information on Penn State??? Again, as I said above, it’s clear that Mandel had an agenda and he searched around ‘til he found the guy he needed to back it up. It was poor journalism on Cook’s part and possibly worse journalism on Mandel’s! And where the hell are the editors of these publications whose job it is to keep morons like this in check??
by BSM PSU 93 on Jun 12, 2008 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bracken, not Cook
It occurred to me that it wouldn’t make any sense for Ron Cook to write something for the CDT… he’s a Pitt beat writer (and thus a Penn State detractor and complete loser in general). The guy Nick mentioned above is actually a different Ron – that is, Ron Bracken – and here’s what he had to say in his April 11, 2008 article for the CDT:
“You can describe the current state of Penn State football in one four-letter word — mess… All of the good done by all of the former players in the program is slowly being eroded by the acts of the latest generation. Someone took the time to compile a list of players who have run afoul of the law just since 2002. Care to guess the number? It’s into the 60’s and climbing. ... None of this is the ranting of someone with an axe to grind. It’s just a laying out of facts, ugly as they are.”
So, there you go. Bracken has been writing about Penn State football since 1967 and he’s one of the most annoyingly pessimistic and cynical guys out there. I think David Jones must have learned everything he knows about sports writing from reading Bracken’s articles. Anyway, as the story goes, Mr. Mandel took Bracken’s words as gospel and the rest is history – SI publishes a crappy article based on a list of allegations absolutely littered with inaccuracies.
By the way, Ron Bracken is retiring this year. IMHO, “Good riddance, freako!”
by BSM PSU 93 on Jun 12, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the other hand
Few, if any, of the incidents on the list are made up, ie total fantasy. Lots of charges were dropped or reduced, in some situations charges were never brought. There are certainly inaccuracies on the list. But that doesn’t mean nothing bad happened, if you review RUTS’s piece on the issue (which was excellent work by the way) you’ll see that in almost every instance, something happened.
The fact that Michael Robinson was not charged with being in a fight doesn’t mean he wasn’t in one and I’ve never heard of anyone getting charged with disorderly conduct while praying at church. And truth be told, the fact a woman got really drunk and went to a man’s apartment does not mean she wasn’t raped, it just means she’ll never be able to prove it in Court. Take that (and the dismissal of those charges) for what its worth.
The point is the list contains more than 60 acts of malfesance. Some serious, some stupid, but very few of them total fantasy.
That’s a news story. Don’t blame the reporter.
For the Glory; National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994
by jesse. on Jun 12, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what
Even the Joe Paterno thing…it’s indicitive of a group of people running around town like they own the place.
For the most part these are not serious crimes, but they represent the kind of trouble you get in to when you think you’re better than everybody else.
Get off my road! This is my ice skating rink! You can’t party walk here, only I can party walk here! All the other girls wanted to have sex with me, so she must too!
For the Glory; National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994
by jesse. on Jun 12, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A point well taken
To be certain, there’s some truth in the majority of things listed. No one’s contesting that. If that wasn’t the case, I’m guessing the list would have been debunked as some PSU detractor’s half-assed effort to denigrate the university almost immediately. So, it’s fair to say the list only gained widespread acceptance for the fact that, indeed, much of it has grounds in reality.
Now, on to the point. As RUTS succinctly puts it:
“All in all, the Penn State Nittany Lions don’t have a widespread, 1988 Miami Hurricanes style criminal gang disguised in plain football uniforms. They have a drinking and fighting problem. Players aren’t shooting guns or selling drugs. They’re getting loaded and brawling. While I take modest comfort in the fact that the football roster doesn’t double as a suspect list from The Wire, there is still a rather obvious behavioral problem within the program.”
So, you can’t go around making sweeping claims like Bracken (”...the current state of Penn State football [is] in one four-letter word — mess”) or Mandel (“Thug U”) and not expect people to call you out on it. That’s why RUTS spent a whole afternoon investigating. I know we have problems at PSU… most Penn Staters do. We just want other people’s assessments of the situation to be fair, accurate, and as objective as possible.
by BSM PSU 93 on Jun 12, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two quick comments
Bracken’s and Mandel’s articles were both sensationalistic bullshit and everyone (including you) knows that. Bracken is just a crotchety old man and Mandel just wants people, like me, mentioning his name on bulletin boards and around water coolers. Please, please don’t defend them for spouting crap, even if it’s their legal right to do so.
I know this is only cursory to the point you were trying to make, so I hesitate to even mention it, but… Like everyone else, you read the transcription of the phone conversation between Austin and that girl. Dude, you know he didn’t rape her. So, why make it sound like he might have? He didn’t. End of story. Let’s help the guy out a bit, huh? He’s gone through A LOT of shit for no good goddamn reason.
by BSM PSU 93 on Jun 13, 2008 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mandel's Article
This is what he wrote
For the Glory; National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994
by jesse. on Jun 13, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then there’s the little matter of Penn State recently turning into college football’s newest version of “Thug U.” Sound harsh? Take a look at the evidence.
While there are no official NCAA statistics in this category, according to the Centre Daily Times, more than 60 Nittany Lions players have broken the law since 2002. That bears repeating. Sixty. A little more than a year ago, six players were charged with felonies following an incident in which safety Anthony Scirrotto essentially rounded up a posse to confront several men at an apartment party, where all hell broke loose (Scirrotto later pled guilty to defiant trespass). More recently, a since-dismissed player, Chris Bell, allegedly pulled a knife on a teammate.
You could argue that these sorts of incidents take place at nearly every major program in the country these days, and you would be right, but it’s hard to imagine any school has topped Penn State recently in terms of the sheer number of transgressions.
For the Glory; National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994
by jesse. on Jun 13, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Maybe and maybe not. We’re obviously taking a bunch of extra crap for the fact that we’ve always been known as “squeaky clean university” (whether deserved or not). Would you be surprised to hear that 60 Oklahoma, Miami, FSU, etc., etc. players had some sort of brush with the law over the past six years? I wouldn’t… but neither would anyone else… which is why it doesn’t always make the news. On the other hand, when it happens at a school known around the country for educating upstanding young citizens… now, that’s big news, my friend.
Of course, this is obvious stuff. A guy’s irt on the guy whose been wearing the tailored suit for so many years.
by BSM PSU 93 on Jun 13, 2008 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
You can probably disregard that second line of gibberish. LOL When you write from the office, your eyes often wind up in two different places.
by BSM PSU 93 on Jun 13, 2008 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With respect to Mandel…
In two pages that is all he said (he also quoted Bracken’s article that had the “team full of derelicts” quote). What is sensationalistic or not true in those paragraphs? Most of that article was about the team’s chances this season.
With respect to the Transcript…
I’ve read enough transcripts in my day to know that you miss something by not seeing the conversation in live action. That being said, my read of the conversation was that he was fishing to see if she thought she was raped. He was obviously concerned about what she thought happened.
I don’t know to what extent this possible, but if you like, go back and read my previous posts about the teams legal troubles generally, and Austin Scott specifically. I’ve been very supportive of them (the players), and exceptionally critical of the SCPD and the local DA. But having no case (which they didn’t) is not the same thing as nothing happened. We know that what happened in Austin’s case did not amount to rape in a legal sense. But you can’t lose sight of the fact that there is a difference between legal culpability and ethical responsibility.
For the Glory; National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994
by jesse. on Jun 13, 2008 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Writing
In general, most writing has to be a bit flowery or people won’t find it interesting. However, this isn’t necessarily true for sports writing. The number one reason people read articles about their favorite teams is because they’re searching for information… hard, accurate information. A sports writer doesn’t have to write like Mark Twain to be considered good. He just has to be accurate in terms of what he reports. With that said, it obviously doesn’t take much for a sports writer to go down the wrong path and start churning out sensationalistic rubbish. In my opinion, the aforementioned writers did just that…
“All of the good done by all of the former players in the program is slowly being eroded by the acts of the latest generation.” —Bracken
“Then there’s the little matter of Penn State recently turning into college football’s newest version of “Thug U.” Sound harsh? Take a look at the evidence.” —Mandel
Both Bracken and Mandel used an exaggerated, error-strewn list as evidence that Penn State now constitutes a “mess” and the new “Thug U”. What kind of accurate and objective reporting is that??? Pulling a list of unknown origin off the internet and using it to support your argument… that kinda thing gets people laughed out of journalism school, man!
by BSM PSU 93 on Jun 13, 2008 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Austin
And I know you support Austin, Jesse. That’s why I wondered why you brought him up just now.
by BSM PSU 93 on Jun 13, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least
no one is calling us Phree Shoes University….sorry Florida State
PSU Softball
by QBsneak12 on Jun 11, 2008 1:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No Comparison ..
My point being that in Joe’s early years, kids that got in trouble were brought to Joe’s house and he dealt with it. The kid either straighten up or was gone.. We (the fans) never heard of the incident until possible some years later. So we have no statistics of how many times Joe had to deal with a drunken player or one that had gotten in a fight. I suspect it was fewer then today but only Joe knows and I’m sure even he didn’t keep records. Many of todays incidences are alcohol related. In the 60s, 70s and through at mid 80s many alcohol incidences didn’t get reported. In some cases the cop was more interested that the drunk got home safely with out hurting him/herself or anyone else. If you got stopped for a possible DUI within a few blocks of your house there was a good chance you would be let go.
So today we are faced with a long list players in trouble versus zero from Joe’s early days. it looks worse then what it possible is (I say possible because we don’t have a valid record/list of past incidences to compare against). Add in the fact the times have changed and what was once over looked has zero tolerance today so we are comparing apples to oranges.
Whether the list is accurate or not, there is enough truth in it to bring shame to a tradition we all are proud of. Personally I think on the team’s locker room wall should be painted “Bring no Shame” and under it post this list with all its inaccuracies as an example of how even a minor incident or lack of judgment reflects on the team and the university.
by ageing lion on Jun 11, 2008 1:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Call off the dogs!
The research is done, and you can see the results here:
http://runupthescore.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/penn-states-legal-problems
-- Run Up The Score http://runupthescore.wordpress.com
by Run Up The Score on Jun 11, 2008 1:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great stuff RUTS...
Appreciate the effort put into it.
by Screen Name 20 on Jun 12, 2008 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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