Profiles In Plagiar-Ageism: Lou Holtz

by Kevin HD on Jul 15, 2008 8:40 PM EDT in Football

Angry-lou_medium

Profiles In Plagiar-Agism is an offseason series being run to examine the history of exit plans. We will be analyzing some of the greatest football coaches of all time and determining any parallels between their final days and those that are facing Joe Paterno.

(Previous episodes: Paul William "Bear" Bryant)

Lou Holtz Coaching Years: 1969-1971 William & Mary, 1972-1975 North Carolina State, 1976 New York Jets, 1977-1983 Arkansas, 1984-1985 Minnesota, 1986-1996 Notre Dame, 1999-2004 South Carolina

Mythical National Championships: One, 12-0 1988 Irish

Conference Championships: 3 in 22 years of coaching teams in a conference (excludes, of course, all seasons with Notre Dame)

Backstory: Holtz had a bit of a strange rise in the coaching world, filled with very dramatic ups and downs. He built up the William & Mary program but then left for North Carolina State. He compiled a 31-11-2 record there, but only finished the season ranked once in four years. After that relatively bland record at a major college program, he was hired as HC by an apparently desperate New York Jets franchise. He didn't make it though his first season, pulling a Bobby Petrino* with one game left to play. Under his control, the team managed just 3 wins in 13 games. He then moved on to Arkansas with mild success but was eventually let go. This led to one short season at Minnesota, where he gained a rare bowl invitation but did not coach in it because he had accepted an offer from Notre Dame in December. At Notre Dame he faired quite well. After two mediocre season he went on to finish in the top six five times, including the 1988 Mythical National Championship. He left a couple years later, but no one seems to be quite sure why. Some mention a job in the NFL (that never happened), there were rumblings of non-specific 'ethical' motivations, and then there was this:

Maybe he exasperated his new bosses. Holtz is a famous pain. Even in the celebratory moments after his last game at South Bend, a 62-0 victory, Boo Hoo Lou whined about the TV network deal. He said it created "a backlash" that inspired teams to play superbly against Notre Dame and might have "cost us" a national championship or two. Maybe he told his bosses that if they didn't like the way he worked, it might be time to get a new man. And maybe they agreed.

Wow, those are some bad excuses. Anyway, Lou eventually ended up at South Carolina. He didn't win a game in his first year. In six seasons, he managed just two bowl appearances.

Burn Out or Fade Away? Ummm....

Current Legacy: This is billed as a series about how the greats quit and that might mean Lou doesn't really belong. But hey, the guy looks the part of an old man, like our own coach, so he gets an invitation. While he is easy to discredit, he coached at Notre Dame and did well there (back when Notre Dame actually played a decent schedule none the less). The school had been playing .500 ball for half a decade until Lou showed up and make them a consistent top ten team.

Lou isn't well respected anymore. The USC thing was him walking away with his tail between his legs. He is paraded like a clown on ESPN. Despite bringing their program back to life, Notre Dame fans tend to bring up the tried and tested rag for 'losing the big games' even though he won an MNC there. They haven't even been close since.

So what did we learn? Well, to start, and especially with Paterno, it is impossible to know exactly how a program is run and what kind of internal respect the HC is generating. After last summer's fight, the Hub Brawl, Quarless' repeated alcohol offenses, and the knife thing with Bell, it's hard to say how much of the old disciplinarian is showing up to practice anymore. Although the video evidence doesn't seem to suggest any lack of energy.

So here comes the conclusion: sometimes you just get too old to coach. I know that sounds moronically obvious, but I think the simple concept gets lost in our over analysis. Is Joe too old? I honestly don't know. I really don't. Maybe all these off the field incidents mean he isn't respected in the club house. Maybe he is respected in the club house but they are choosing to recruit character issue players. Maybe it's just bad luck; even coaches that most agree are in control (guys like Stoops and Tressel) aren't above these things happening to their teams. It's just the reality of the sport now. I do know that Lou was too old. It's clear from the video of the above shown brawl. I also know that it's not going to be the same age for everyone, and so that makes the question one that you can't really answer until it's too late.

* The quitting part, anyway. Based on what I can gather, he didn't receive the Arkansas job until after he had officially resigned.

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Lou Holtz...

Nearly ruined High Definition television for me… have you ever seen Lou Holtz’s 105 year old face in HD? It is terrifying…

by erieisforlovers on Jul 16, 2008 12:25 AM EDT 0 recs

so true...

and besides that, can you understand a word that comes out of his mouth?

by WETSU on Jul 16, 2008 8:37 AM EDT up 0 recs

i'm still salty

about the curse that costs us the michigan game.

Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries

by Kevin HD on Jul 16, 2008 9:36 AM EDT 0 recs

because that's all it was

the curse. nothing else. (fingers in ears)

Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries

by Kevin HD on Jul 16, 2008 9:37 AM EDT up 0 recs

that's ok

didn’t he curse ND vs. Navy?

by psudrozz on Jul 16, 2008 10:01 AM EDT 0 recs

LOU HOLTZ FOR PRETHEDENT!!!

by gbd106 on Jul 16, 2008 10:09 AM EDT 0 recs

why he left

First of all, I’d posit that Lou Holtz was a great coach—at least at Notre Dame. He coached the team’s last national championship and last heisman trophy winner. They were a phantom clip call away from another national championship in the ‘89 season and a devastating loss to BC in ‘93 (after beating FSU in that year’s game of the century) from winning it all that year.

Notre Dame has never been a class program since, and, before he got there, they were pretty bad—5-6 the previous year, back before losing seasons were something that happened in South Bend. In three years, he had them winning it all.

But he left because the ND fans are crazy. After he turned the team around and the won the National Championship, anything less was no longer acceptable. He might have had a “lifetime contract” but he took a ton of sh*t from fans, alums, and donors about the three loss seasons his last two years and was essentially run out of town. He couldn’t (or didn’t want to) put up with the stress of unrealistic expectations—as is mentioned, ND played tough schedules every year and had high academic standards (including no redshirting) that made it tough to compete against the other best programs.

I think if you’d ask ND fans now, I think they’d say that the should have given Lou a little slack. He might have a lisp and weigh less than a buck ten, but he was a good coach who kept them competitive most years and had them competiting for national championships every four or five years. Hard to argue that he was way better than Davies, Willingham or Weis.

Perhaps the lesson to be learned from the Lou Holtz era at ND is “you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone.” We’re all disappointed that we can’t beat Michigan and we’re terrible in Columbus. But, Joe keeps us competitive and hopefully challenging for a national championship once every four or five years. He’s going to be gone one day, and we’ll miss him. If he’s followed by a string of coaches that are essentially our versions of Davies, Willingham, and fatboy Weis, we’ll miss him more.

by spakajewia on Jul 16, 2008 10:34 AM EDT 0 recs

good stuff

It is worth emphasizing the fact that he actually had to follow the rules: academic standards that no longer exist and a tough schedule week after week that has been replaced with SDSU and service academies.

Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries

by Kevin HD on Jul 16, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up 0 recs

Silly comment

Kevin—

Thanks for the memories of Lou Holtz. Coach Holtz was one of the best and the vast majority of the Irish faithful cherished his time while at the University.
That said, however, I take exception with your comment above of “academic standards that no longer exist”. Are you really serious? If so, on what evidence do you base that comment?
Whether you want to believe it or not, among other academic accolades the Irish football team ranks second on the all-time list with 51 selections of Academic All-Americans. And most recently the members of the 2007-08 University of Notre Dame football team combined to post a semester grade-point average above 3.0 during the ‘08 spring semester, marking the sixth straight semester (and the first six times in recorded history) that the Irish football team has topped the 3.0 GPA level as a group. Further, fifty-four of the 104 players registered at least a 3.0 mark for the ‘08 spring semester and 53 members of the team currently have a cumulative GPA of at least a 3.0.
Additionally, your comment that “a tough schedule week after week that has been replaced with SDSU and service academies” is certainly misleading. If you know any Notre Dame history the relationship with the Naval Academy is well documented. That relationship has been a mainstay of the Irish schedule and will continue for as long as the Naval Academy wishes to play the University of Notre Dame. Yes the Irish play San Diego State to start the season but considering the Lions opening against Coastal Carolina, I would hardly be the one to throw stones if in your shoes.
Perhaps Lou Holtz said it best: “Do right. Do your best. Treat others as you want to be treated.”

Go Irish.

by NDJerry90 on Jul 16, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

defending bsd

Your comments are correct in letter perhaps, Irish fan, but not in spirit. First, the standards for ND athletics are not as strong as they once were. The team may have performed well in the classroom this year, but when Holtz was there he wasn’t able to approach high recruits with the same grades/SAT scores that Weis can no go after.

Secondly, no one’s trying to make an argument that compares Penn State and Notre Dame’s schedules. Rather, Kevin is saying ND doesn’t play schedules that were as tough as they used to be. You’re correct about the historic games against the service academies, but let’s compare ND’s schedules in ‘88 and ‘08.

In each year, ND played/plays: Michigan, MSU, Purdue, USC, Navy, and Stanford (“conference games”)

In ‘88, the “out of conference” games were: Rice, Penn State, Miami, Pitt, and Air Force

In ‘08 the “out of conference” games are: SDSU, North Carolina, Washington, Boston College, and Syracuse

As it so happened, PSU was terrible in ‘88 and Pitt was beginning its long descent into mediocrity, but you had two top caliber schools on the “out of conference” schedule: Penn State and Miami. Penn State had won 2 of the previous six national championships and Miami was the top ranked team in the country.

This year, who’s the best “out of conference” opponent? North Carolina? BC? Washington? If this was hoops, you guys would really be playing some tough teams, but since it’s pigskin, the proof is obvious: the Irish don’t play the same caliber of opponents as they used to. Welcome to the Charlie Weis era.

by spakajewia on Jul 16, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

as much trash as i talk about nd fans, its good to hear one show up well reasoned and conversational. so for that, thanks.

to add to what spakajewia said: i did a look back at my former blog and found that ND had offered 8 of the top 10 guys in 2009, the only thing preventing it from being 10 of 10 was that those kids had stated they weren’t interesting in going too far from home. If they still had the standards I hear about I have to think one single kid would be off limits to Weis, but I never heard of one single recruit that was off limits to him.

I know the whole story about ND and Navy, I think it’s great, but that only one of the three cakewalk service academies that they have playing so often. The most tell sign that they have really dropped on the schedule, to me anyway, is that the team was 3-9 last year, and not included in anyone’s 2008 preseason top-25, and will be favored in 8-10 games this year.

Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries

by Kevin HD on Jul 16, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

Fellow Steelers fan – you state that "the standards for ND athletics are not as strong as they once were", and "the team may have performed well in the classroom this year, but when Holtz was there he wasn’t able to approach high recruits with the same grades/SAT scores that Weis can no(w) go after". But yet you offer no proof. I trust the word of a black-and-gold fan, but by simply saying so does not make it true. As a rabid ND fan and alumni, I can tell you that there has been no indication from the University that any athletic standards have been relaxed for the Notre Dame Football team and Charlie Weis. I politely request you to show me otherwise.

Regarding the current ND football schedule, do you honestly believe that Charlie Weis set the current year’s schedule or for that matter that Lou Holtz set his 1988 schedule? Unless Penn State does things differently, these schedules are set years in advance and likely before the arrival of Coach Holtz and Coach Weis. If you want to blame anyone for this year’s ND football schedule, blame departed AD Kevin White.

The best of luck to your Nits this season.

by NDJerry90 on Jul 16, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

data!

The 1995 NCAA Division I Graduation Rates Report shows Notre Dame football players from 1986-1990 achieving a 76% graduation rate, and were admitted with an average high school GPA of 2.99 and an SAT score of 894. Contrast that GR with the male student body GR of 94%. The football players significantly trailed their male peers, but that says nothing about their intelligence (I believe it is more likely attributable to resource allocation; ND football players can’t spend as much time on academics as regular students). For fun, check out Ohio State’s numbers two pages later, they are truly, truly awful.

14 years of data later, the 2007 NCAA Division I Federal Graduation Rate Data shows Notre Dame football players from 2000-2004 achieving a 79% graduation rate. The graduation rate for the male student body remained 94%. Thus, today’s Notre Dame football players trail the male student body by slightly less than their 80’s counterparts while academic difficulty has apparently remained constant; my guess is this is attributable to improved academic support for athletes.

I did not use GSR data since it had not been conceived in the 1980s, but 4-class graduation rate should serve as a close enough indicator for comparison purposes. It’s possible that enough transfers and redshirts occurred to confound the data, but on the surface it suggests the academic achievement of Notre Dame football players has marginally improved over the last 15 years.

by gumbercules on Jul 16, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

As far as I can tell, no strictly academic standards have been lowered (so I apologize for stating they had), however, the Irish have lowered standards regarding redshirting (happened prior to Weis) and allowing recruits to come early (happened with Weis). In the past, ND players rarely, if ever, were allowed to be redshirted, but now the Irish are like everyone else. And apparently, the willingness to allow high school students to enter the University in January was changed under Weis, and was crucial in landing Jimmy Clausen as a recruit.

I’ll grant you that I’m holding ND to a higher standard here; PSU was one of the first teams to capatilize on early entries, which helped our ‘05 season, and JoePa’s used redshirting as an effective tool to build the team forever. But ND fans are proud to state that it’s a different kind of program. To me, it doesn’t seem nearly as different as it once was.

It’s true that schools make their schedules years in advance (which is why we’re both playing Syracuse this year; we scheduled them when they were still good), but that doesn’t change the fact that ND didn’t schedule one marquee “non-conference” opponent this year. No Miami, no FSU, no Nebraska, no PSU. I realize that teams are better from one year to the next, but none of the ND’s “non-conference” opponents are typically top-caliber football programs.

And so yes, Charlie Weis likely had little to do with this schedule, and I was wrong to use his name. But from all accounts, Kevin White left because he felt like he had no power. He was merely a pawn for administators, donors, and likely, Charlie Weis.

But yes, yes, good luck to you—as best as your interests don’t conflict with my interests.

by spakajewia on Jul 16, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

Nice "talking" with you.

See, us ND guys aren’t all bad. Honest.

Just please ignore the ND Subway Alumni who think they speak on behalf of the ND Nation.

Maybe this isn’t the venue, but I have a bet with some Subway PSU Alumni regarding both the ND program and the PSU program. They are adamant that the PSU program is superior and it will be proven over the next 5 seasons. I counter that with Weis’ recent recruiting that the ND program will do better over the next 5 seasons. Just curious – your thoughts?

by NDJerry90 on Jul 16, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

interesting question

the next five years are going to be a very important transition time and will be marked by a lack of offensive stars fighting against a stronger conference. Ohio State is looking at a third MNC game in three year, enough to propel them to USC recruiting status (although, to be fair, they are practically there). Rich Rod will have his ship in shape in the next 2-3 years, and Illinois is looking at getting their crap together now also.

I think PSU would be strong enough to win at least the next two, maybe the next three games if they were to play every year. After that who knows, it really depends on what happens when joe leaves. If its after this season, I don’t see why PSU won’t be reaching close to ND level recruiting success, in which case it would only take a year or two (if things go well) to recover. However this 2009 class is strong on oline and defense, and our QBs and RBs will be here for ages, so I don’t really see a drop off any time soon.

How are you measuring success? Other than the occasional shared UM or Purdue game, there isn’t really a fair way to determine who is better each year. ND will forever have an advantage in the polls for being ND, and record doesn’t work for obvious reasons.

Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries

by Kevin HD on Jul 16, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

Future Plagiar-Ageism

Kevin – Keep up the good work.

I hope you have something on Eddie Robinson’s Grambling exit. He was a great coach that was eventually told that it would be his last season. A man who didn’t know when it was time to go. I would appreciate any details of what lead to the final decision to force him out.

by ageing lion on Jul 16, 2008 12:28 PM EDT 0 recs

he's on the list

picking the subjects is always difficult. I want to pick the greats but there is a balance between that criteria and those who’s situations are comparable to JoePa’s.

Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries

by Kevin HD on Jul 16, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

Interesting

I definitely wasn’t expecting Lout Holtz to follow Bear Bryant in this series, but good stuff anyway.

I actually like Holtz. I know people make fun of his lysp and his pep talks on ESPN, but my swim coach used to show us Lou Holtz tapes and I’m telling you that guy is inspirational.

by speedomike on Jul 16, 2008 1:02 PM EDT 0 recs