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2008 BSD Big Ten Previews - Michigan Wolverines

2007 Recap

2007 Record: 9-4 (6-2)

To say the 2007 season got off to a disastrous start for the Michigan Wolverines would be an understatement. They returned virtually everyone on offense and most of the defense from the team that was one win away from playing for the National Championship in 2006. Expectations were high in Ann Arbor, and along with them came a lofty #5 preseason ranking.

Week one was supposed to be a glorified scrimmage against Div. IAA Appalachian State. But we all know what happened. The two-time Div. IAA champs took the Wolverines to school that day shredding Lloyd Carr's defense to rags. And then there were kittens.

Kitten_medium
Awww...What's wrong, little guy?

Star-divide

Things didn't get any better the following week when Oregon came to Ann Arbor and rolled up 624 yards and 39 points of offense. Week 3 featured two of the winningest programs in college football history squaring off when Notre Dame came to town, but on this day both teams entered with identical 0-2 records for the first time ever. But the 38-0 final score proved two things. One, that Michigan wasn't as bad as everyone thought, and two, Notre Dame sucked as bad as everyone thought. Once back on the winning track the Wolverines turned their attention toward running the table and winning the conference title.

It started in the Big Ten opener when Penn State came to the Big House 3-0 and ranked #10 in the nation. I was there that day and before the game you could tell Michigan was pretty well shell shocked and demoralized. To top it off Chad Henne was scratched putting the game in the hands of true freshman Ryan Mallet. But an unoriginal game plan and an uninspiring quarterback for the Nittany Lions got the Wolverines back to 0.500 on the season. From there Michigan rattled off six straight wins climbing to 8-2 and #13 in the polls. It looked like they just might run the table after all.

But that was as high as they would get. Wisconsin proved too formidable on their home turf and Ohio State proved too formidable anywhere. Michigan backed their way into the Capital One Bowl on a two game losing streak where they got matched against the defending national champion Florida Gators.

Nobody gave the Wolverines a chance against the quicker SEC team. And why should they considering the way Appalachian State and Oregon had exposed them earlier in the year. Vegas listed the Wolverines as 11 point underdogs. But an inspired Michigan team playing for Lloyd Carr in his last game before retiring manhandled the #9 ranked Gators by a 41-35 score that wasn't really that close.

This year they must adjust from the Lloyd Carr Tecmo Bowl playbook to the Rich Rodriguez spread option offense. We'll see how that goes.

Rodriguez_medium
Get your snake oil here!

 

Offense Preview

Offense Returns (3): WR-Greg Mathews, TE-Carson Butler, RT-Stephen Schilling

Offense Loses(8): QB-Chad Henne, RB-Mike Hart, WR-Mario Manningham, WR-Adrian Arrington, LT-Jake Long, C-Adam Kraus, RG-Alex Mitchell/Jeremy Cuilla, LG-Justin Boren

Overview

I could go over stats from 2007, but there isn't any point. Nothing from that offense will carry over to this year. Long time starters Henne, Hart, Long, Manningham, Kraus, and Arrington are gone. On top of that, the Lloyd Carr "three yards and a cloud of dust" offense is out the door and replaced with the Rich Rodriguez spread option. Michigan fans are convinced their offense will be the envy of the league, but even they will tell you it's not this year.

The biggest challenge for Rodriguez will be finding the winged helmet version of Pat White. Shortly after Rodriguez took over freshman sensation Ryan Mallet jumped ship for Arkansas. A tall pocket passer, he knew he wasn't what Rodriguez would be looking for in his quarterback. That left Michigan with a gaping hole under center. The leading contenders are Stephen Threet and Nick Sheridan. Both guys are considered drop back passers with some mobility, but neither guy will draw comparisons to Pat White or Vince Young. Threet is a sophomore transfer from Georgia Tech while Sheridan is a former walk-on. So you can probably say quarterback is not going to be a strength on this team.

Threet_medium
Steve Slaton he's not.

Normally losing a player like Mike Hart would be cause for concern, but the Wolverines are surprisingly deep in the backfield. Brandon Minor and Carlos Brown saw considerable playing time last year while Mike Hart was banged up. Minor rushed for 385 yards and a touchdown while Brown added 382 yards and four touchdowns. You can expect to see a two-headed running back monster that's all the rage with the kids these days. And don't be surprised to see Brown moved around to the slot or even quarterback. Incoming freshmen Mike Shaw and Sam McGuffie may get a few carries as well.

At wide receiver the Wolverines are high on potential but low on experience. Greg Mathews is the only wide receiver with considerable playing time having started five games in 2007 and catching 39 balls for 366 yards and three touchdowns. After that things are sketchy. The other wide receiver position is a battle between sophomore Junior Hemmingway and overhyped junior LaTerrval Savoy with Hemmingway enjoying a slight lead. In the slot, which is considered an important part of RichRod's offense, the Wolverines are struggling to find someone. Sophomore Toney Clemons is the guy for now, but at 6'3" and 210 lbs he doesn't exactly fit the mold of the small speedy guy the spread offense requires to create mismatches against slower linebackers and safeties. This is where you may most likely see Sam McGuffie or Mike Shaw make an immediate impact.

But even if Michigan finds a quarterback, identifies some viable targets to throw to, and makes the running back by committee thing work, the biggest problem for Rodriguez to address will be the offensive line. Four starters are gone including Justin Boren. Boren was an All Big Ten performer last year as a sophomore and a sure bet to be a starter this year, but he shockingly left the program during spring practice drawing the ire of the Michigan faithful. Then to make his Benedict Arnold manuever complete, he signed on with Ohio State a few weeks later. I can only imagine the hatemail he got.

Anyway, position battles a plenty on the offensive line this year. Combine that with all new skill players and a new offensive system and I can't see this offense exploding out of the gate. Imploding maybe, but definitely not exploding.

 

Defense Preview

Defense Returns(7): DE-Brandon Graham, DT-Terrance Taylor, DT-Will Johnson, DE-Tim Jamison, LB-Obi Ezeh, CB-Donovan Warren, CB-Morgan Trent

Defense Loses(4): LB-Shawn Crable, LB-Chris Graham, SS-Jamar Adams, FS-Brandent Englemon

Overview

Those of you hoping for a Notre Dame-type collapse out of the Michigan Wolverines will be sadly disappointed. While it's true that Michigan must rebuild their entire offense much like Notre Dame was forced to do in 2007, there is one stark contrast between the two. The Irish had no defense to fall back on. Michigan does.

Defensive ends Tim Jamison and Brandon Graham combined for 14 sacks last year, and this year they are reportedly leaner and faster this year. Redshirt freshman Ryan Van Berger was impressive in the spring and should soon be a force on this defense. Terrance Taylor and Will Johnson return in the middle forming a powerful set of tackles. And backing these guys up are a host of young talented players that were all highly recruited coming out of high school. While Penn State fans may like to boast our defensive line is the best in the conference, this one certainly gives the Nittany Lions a run for their money.

Shawn Crable and Chris Graham were two excellent linebackers that anchored the defense the past few years. But Michigan is capable of reloading at this position thanks to several years of excellent recruiting. Obi Ezah figures to be in the starting linebacker rotation as the only returning starter. He's deceptively fast for a guy that goes nearly 250 lbs. Senior journeyman Austin Panter should get his chance to start at strong side linebacker after playing mostly on special teams throughout his Michigan career. Opposite him on weakside is sophomore Marell Evans, the kind of speedy linebacker Rodriguez craves. Also contending to crack the rotation are John Thompson and Jonas Mouton, both capable players in their own right. So while Michigan may lack experience at linebacker, they have more than enough talent to plug in and field a decent squad.

Junior Steve Brown cemented himself as the starting free safety in the spring. At strong safety Brandon Harrison gets upgraded from nickelback where he made ten starts and recorded 40 tackles last year. He's small (5'9") but fast and hits hard. The coaches are said to be very pleased with the play of their safeties. Donovan Warren and Morgan Trent make an excellent set of cornerbacks, and don't be surprised to see incoming freshman Boubacar Cissoko get considerable playing time as the heir to Trent after the season.

Morgan_trent_medium 
Morgan Trent would like you to know he is in fact "all that"

 

Special Teams

The kickers should be solid. Zoltan Mesko is a solid punter with a 41.1 yard average last year, and K.C. Lopata was a solid 11-of-12 in field goals after taking over the number one spot six weeks into the season.

The return games weren't very good last year. Brandon Minor and Carlos Brown split the kick returning duties for a team that ranked #110 in the nation in kick returns. The punt return game wasn't much better averaging under eight yards per return. But don't read too much into this. If Minor and Brown earn starting roles they may get pulled from special teams to keep them healthy, and you can bet Rodriguez will add a few new wrinkles to the return game. So you can expect the Wolverines to improve on special teams.

 

The Schedule

Date Opponent BSD Outlook
Aug 30 Utah Toss Up
Sept 6 Miami (OH) Probable Win
Sept 13 @ Notre Dame Toss Up
Sept 20 Bye
Sept 27 Wisconsin Probable Loss
Oct 4 Illinois Toss up
Oct 11 Toledo Probable Win
Oct 18 @ Penn State Probable Loss
Oct 25 Michigan State Toss Up
Nov 1 @ Purdue Toss Up
Nov 8 @ Minnesota Probable Win
Nov 15 Northwestern Probable Win
Nov 22 @ Ohio State Probable Loss

Missing: Iowa and Indiana

BSD Difficulty Rating: 7 out of 10. Notre Dame should be considerably improved this year. Toledo and Miami should be two easy wins, but I'm wary about that opener against Utah. The Utes return 14 starters from a team that went 9-4 last year with wins over UCLA, Navy, Louisville, Colorado State, and TCU. Being Rodriguez's first game instituting his new system the Wolverines may be ripe for another opening day upset.

The conference schedule is tough with road games at Penn State, Purdue and Ohio State. The home slate is formidable with Illinois, Wisconsin, and Michigan State all coming to Ann Arbor. This would be a good year to have Indiana on the schedule, but no such luck.

 

BSD's Final Outlook

The games against Wisconsin, Penn State, and Ohio State are most likely losses to much more experienced teams. There are enough MAC cupcakes and Big Ten bottom feeders to assure four wins. But you can see I took the easy way out and pegged five of Michigan's games as toss ups. That's because until we see this offense in motion we'll never really know if Rodriguez is an offensive genius or if he's just playing Phil Jackson winning two fists full of championship rings on the coat tails of Michael Jordan and Shaquille O'Neil. We'll find out this year what Rodriguez can do without Steve Slaton and Pat White to work with.

My gut tells me not much this year. Utah is a good experienced mid-major team that will come into Ann Arbor pumped up to knock off a prestigious program like Michigan.  I think they will beat Notre Dame. Until Charlie proves he can coach a defense into a contender I like the Wolverines in this matchup. I might be generous in putting Illinois and Michigan State in the toss up column. Both teams are up and coming in the conference. I think Michigan will have to win one of these games and their game against Purdue in order to go to a Bowl game. I think they'll get four conference wins. BSD says Michigan goes 7-5 with a trip to the Outback Bowl. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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Comments

Display:

O-line and QB Questions

The offensive line is going to have to learn and improve rapidly for Michigan to win enough Big Ten games to go to a Bowl. The QB is another problem. Threet should be the starter and he was a 4 star prospect, so at least he has some talent. RichRod will tailor the offense to suit Threet, who will be more prone to passing rather than running. There is also the more mobile freshman QB who should get some playing time for more of the option run attack.

The Michigan offense this season will probably be more like the offense from Tulane with Shaun King. The QB will be more pass oriented than run oriented. With all of the talent Michigan has at WR and RB, they should not be the problem with the team moving the ball.

The defense will have to carry the team all season, and even more so through the first 3 games. Michigan’s defense should be good enough to get a victory in those first 3 games. That and the bye week could get the offense enough experience to allow Michigan to compete in all of their conference games.

Assuming Michigan wins their non-conference games and against Minnesota and Northwestern, they’ll need to only get one win against Illinois, Wisconsin or MSU to get to a bowl game.

Which eventually leads to the Penn State game. Michigan should have some version of 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB for their formation. How will the Lions’ defense line up? 3 LB or Nickel coverage? How will that compare to what Texas A&M ran in the bowl game last year?

by DrDetroit on Jul 22, 2008 8:21 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Michigan didn’t return “most of” the 2006 defense. The top 3 D-linemen left (including the Lombardi winner), the top 2 linebackers, and the top corner.

That sounds a lot more like a defense decimated to me.

by sullivti on Jul 22, 2008 8:49 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

PSU Michigan game

Lets go state, but you can never say that Penn State/Michigan is a probable loss for Michigan, I don’t care what the circumstances are, until we win a game against them, that is always a toss up.

by PSUtownie on Jul 22, 2008 8:49 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

until we break the streak, assume toss up at the most optmisitc. IMO

by psuphiman80 on Jul 22, 2008 8:50 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

We’ve lost to them with better teams than them more than once over this streak, so it’s always a toss up.

"A setback is just a set up for a comeback." -Drew Brees

by kajpsu on Jul 22, 2008 12:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Streak

I don’t take the streak into consideration when putting this together. I don’t care what happened eight or nine years ago. We were 0:02 from beating them in 2005. We lost by seven points in 2006 and five points in 2007. We’re right there with them, but just lacking some lucky breaks here and there. If Morelli and Scott don’t fumble and Morelli hits Butler wide open in the endzone we win last year. That’s what it came down to.

This year we are the more experienced team playing at home. They are struggling to fill key positions at quarterback, wide receiver, and along the offensive line this year. We should win this game.

The day will come when we end the streak, and I kind of agree with the poster above who said when it ends it will probably end in a big way. Joe always let himself fall into the mindset of playing Lloyd Carr’s game of ball control and tough defense. Against Rodriguez I think he’ll open things up a bit thinking he has to score to keep up with them. I’m hoping Joe learned alot from those Michigan and Ohio State games last year. The fact that we’re going back to the spread this year tells me they did.

by BSD on Jul 22, 2008 2:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

0:02 or...

Don’t forget that if PSU does one of the following two things in 2005 - just one - they beat Michigan, probably finish the season undefeated, and throw the BCS into complete turmoil:

1. Do not kick off to Steve Breaston with a minute left
2. Stop the worst Michigan team in a quarter century from scoring a touchdown on fourth down with one second to go.

Alas.

And yeah, the only one who could out-Michigan Michigan was Penn State. Those games were mostly watching two stubborn coaches slam their heads into the wall repeatedly until one passed out; it happened to usually be JoePa first.

by jbrons on Jul 23, 2008 9:01 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Another thing.

If King (think it was him) let’s them complete that pass on third down instead of breaking it up, the game is over. The pass was short of the endzone and a completion would’ve absolutely ran out the clock. I can’t blame him b/c that play was instinctual and you want to make the sure play…but if only he would’ve waited a half second….

by Screen Name 20 on Jul 23, 2008 10:38 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

PSU v Michigan streak

I think that when the streak ends, it’s going to be an ugly beating. I think that this year is as good a time as any for that beating to take place. We play them at home and they will field the least talented Michigan squad that we’ve seen in a very long time. If we don’t beat them this year, then we may never beat them. I’m not saying we beat them because I’ve been burnt too many times over the past 11 seasons but I think that when the streak ends, there may be blood spilling out of the stadium before it’s over!!!

Patiently waiting for the return of Penn State Football

by ReadingNitFan on Jul 22, 2008 8:57 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

From an odds persepective

I really like that the line is as high as it currently is. That could obviously change, but the fact they were comfortable enough to release it means they aren’t anticipating any dramatic changes.

The two years we really should have won: 2005 and 2007, the lines came out WAY lower than you would have expected. Both times the public hammered PSU and both times the line stood it’s ground. Oh, and both times we lost.

What I’m trying to say is, while I’m still walking on egg shells like the rest of you, from an objective perspective we have a very good chance of putting this damn thing behind us.

by Kevin HD on Jul 22, 2008 9:28 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Add 2002 to your list

Remember Tony Johnson’s catch where he had 2 feet in bounds and the ref said he didn’t have either? Ugh!!!!

Serenity now…...serenity now!!!

Patiently waiting for the return of Penn State Football

by ReadingNitFan on Jul 22, 2008 9:55 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I generally try not to bitch about calls.

But that call was so bad it is the number one reason why there is instant replay in college football today.

In a way, it’s lucky that it happened to us. If it would have happened to any other team the league would have fined the coach for complaining and made him apologize for questioning the the intergrety of four Michigan residents that just made the worse call since the last basket case call in Ann Arbor. Every Big Ten fan has at least one. But because it was Joe Paterno they had to take him seriously, and review and address his complaints.

Instant replay, another college football improvement brought to you by Joe Paterno.

For the Glory; National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2008 10:16 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

2007 Mich. Game

I was there as well, and BSD nailed it-the fans and players were shell shocked. Spoke to quite a few-most were asking if PSU was going to change its strategy to attack the way oregon/AS did.

by the end of the first quarter, we had our answer. and i died a little bit that day.

JD

by psudrozz on Jul 22, 2008 9:38 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shell shocked

Pretty much describes how I felt after that game.

by speedomike on Jul 22, 2008 10:40 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah. Yeah.

When Morelli fumbled early in the game, my immediate thought was “okay, here we f’ing go…”. And it just got more and more frustrating from there.

Honestly, I think the main cause of the losing streak is that Paterno and Carr seemed to play relatively similar styles of football, and Michigan’s just had better athletes on nearly every occasion. Against Rodriguez, the game should take on a different feel and energy—not the “don’t make the first mistake” mentality we’re used to against UM.

Eh. Random theory. Probably not true.

by Run Up The Score on Jul 22, 2008 11:00 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Could be...

That’s very possible. It also could be that Paterno’s asshole puckers up every time he sees those helmets with the yellow jockstraps.

by speedomike on Jul 22, 2008 11:09 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That talent thing...

When I first moved back to PA last summer, I was randomly lumped into a golf foursome with a player from the late 60’s PSU teams. He’s also had a very, very successful small college coaching career. I asked him, not giving away that I actually write about this stuff as a hobby, what the deal was with the losing streak against Michigan. After a sentence or two, he just kind of shrugged and said, “you know, it sure helps to have better players, too.”

What I took away from the conversation was something that I’ve felt about the modern Paterno teams for a while - we’ll almost always have the talent to win four games in the conference. Even if we’re running the most conservative stuff on the planet, sheer talent will generally beat teams like Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern, Iowa, and also the bad versions of Sparty and Illinois’ teams (which are obviously improving). However, Penn State’s style of football doesn’t fare so well when they’re up against similar talent or face a talent deficit. It sounds like a stupid, obvious thing to write, but the point is clear enough - our coaching hasn’t been able to get us over the hump in big games. Really, just look at our record against OSU and Michigan.

by Run Up The Score on Jul 22, 2008 11:59 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not sure talent is the issue

Look at the difference in competition

Ohio State – Alabama/Miami/Texas/USC
Michigan – Notre Dame
Wisconsin – West Virginia
Iowa – Boston College
Mich. State – Maryland
Purdue – Pittsburgh
Minnesota – Syracuse
Illinois – Rutgers
Indiana – Cincinnati
Northwestern – Temple

This is a comparison of our old "conference" schedule versus our new one, best vs. best, second best vs. second best etc. I don’t think there is one spot in 10 where the old independent schedule yields a consistently tougher game, especially from the middle to the bottom. It’s not that the good teams are a lot better; it’s that the bad teams are not nearly as bad.

If you had to guess, which team was more talented, the 2005 team or the 1986 team, I’d have to say at a minimum it’s close, and you could argue that the 2005 squad had better players. I think our teams, by and large, have been more talented since joining the Big Ten, not less.

Since joining the Big Ten one of the biggest killers has been crappy losses against teams we should have beat (Wisconsin 1995; Iowa 1996, 2000; Michigan State 1997, 1999, 2007; Minnesota 1999). We’d never have lost games like that to WVU, BC, Maryland or Syracuse. In those losses are shares of conference titles, New Years Day bowl games and winning seasons. What we’ve lost, and what has hurt us the most, is loosing a long list of teams that we consistently beat 8 or 9 times out of 10.

For the Glory; National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2008 12:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Point Unclear

Couldn’t follow your narrative, there RUTS: first the quote indicating…not sure what—that we don’t have enough talent, then onto better talent trumps lesser talent, then onto if talent is equal, coaching’s not enough. How does that tie into the quote? Just lost me in the Point dept. Thanks for any clarity you can add!

Convivite Nudem!

by jtothep on Jul 22, 2008 12:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't blame you.

It’s a bit unclear, probably because I’m trying to catch up on real-life work. The Michigan thing is weird, and I think it forces all of us to come up with varying and incomplete explanations. There have obviously been years where Michigan’s just had better players, leading to blowouts like those in ‘97, ‘98, ‘00, and ‘01. I think what the former player/coach was trying to say is that not all of the Michigan losses can be simply pinned on the coaching staff, because they were fighting an uphill battle (not accounting for the fact that the coaches recruit the talent, but that’s another discussion).

Then there have been a number of other games - 1999 and 2007 stick out as shining examples - where coaching utterly failed us. Losing a 10 point lead with 5 1/2 minutes left in the 1999 game, especially in the wake of losing to Minnesota the previous week, will always be one of the most painful PSU losses in my head. That was an insanely talented team that wasted its potential. And we’ve been over the 2007 game about 100 times by now. Those were two instances where the talent level is as close as it gets between the two programs, and Penn State couldn’t get the job done.

I fully realize this may still not make any sense, but (1) it does in my head, and (2) I have to get back to work. So I apologize if it’s not clear yet.

by Run Up The Score on Jul 22, 2008 2:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WallyC did my homework

Perfect description for the UM/PSU series, as written below: “the nexus of Bad Coaching, Bad Execution, and Bad Karma”. And I guess my (horribly labored) point is that in the years when the talent was similar, those three things creeped in and crushed our collective souls.

by Run Up The Score on Jul 22, 2008 4:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Word

Thanks; I’m with you now; not really in your head, but following along with my peabrain anyway. Yeah, that WallyC nexus description works well, doesn’t it?

Convivite Nudem!

by jtothep on Jul 23, 2008 10:46 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Frustrating

One of the more frustrating games I’ve watched…and that includes 6-4.

by Screen Name 20 on Jul 22, 2008 11:41 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not so fast

THEM always seems to find a way to NEVER have a really terrible season. Unlike us not so long ago. I think they’ll shock people and be ok, with a win against us of course. Joe doesn’t know how to beat THEM. As much as it pains me…..10 in a row against THEM!

by shiloh on Jul 22, 2008 10:58 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Coach Matchups

I agree with RUTS on the coaching match ups (Carr vs Paterno). Paterno couldn’t beat the “Bear” but once he left we had better luck against Alabama.

by ageing lion on Jul 22, 2008 12:30 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't discount this...

Paterno almost retired after the 1979 Sugar Bowl. I swear that the reason was that he knew that he could have thrown for a touchdown, but that he decided for whatever reason he had to run it in just to prove to the Bear he could do it. Same deal against Michigan in 1993 (1996 too, if you’ll recall the fake field goal was run right between the tackles).

I think for whatever reason Joe Pa had to beat Lloyd Carr at Lloyd Carr’s game. Pride is one of the seven deadly sins.

For the Glory; National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2008 12:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jesse, glad to see you hang in there on BHGP...

I like to check that blog from time to time for the newest JoePa Chronicle. Amazing how fast you were piled on for making your MAC comment.

Reading other blogs quickly gives opposing fan views of PSU fans.

scUM/OSU – generall dismissive
Little 9 – generally think we are pompous, self-righteous a-holes. (amazingly, exactly what we think of most OSU/scUM fans).

"60% of the time, it works every time"

by rahpsu92 on Jul 22, 2008 1:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That got so out of hand.

I didn’t understand the whole thing. The guy writes easily 5,000 words over six months basically calling Joe Paterno retarted and the mere mention that they lost to Iowa State & Western Michigan put them all in a tailspin.

As for the Michigan fans, they can’t understand why we don’t kiss their ass like everybody else in the league does (with the obvious exception of Ohio State). They like to think the streak is the end all be all of any football discussion, which of course it’s not.

The one guy kept railing on the 2005 game like it was the most important win in Michigan history. Of course, since they’ve never played in a National Championship game in their entire history, it might be.

For the Glory; National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2008 1:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Merely honoring Web tradition

Citing mildly relevant statistics, drawing wild conclusions to posit false truths, and raving like a lunatic are time-honored traditions of threaded forums. While only the big-time nerds here will know what I’m talking about, some of the flame wars available at lkml.org (Linux Kernel Mailing List) put anything the cfb blogosphere has ever produced to shame.

FWIW, Linus Torvalds, creator of Linux, solves the problem beautifully by maintaining his own “idiots” mail filter which (I believe) he publishes regularly. From the looks of your thread, it looks like imadirtyoldman wouldn’t be a bad first addition.

by gumbercules on Jul 22, 2008 4:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Web Tradition

We make it, by the way. By participating. It’s more grassroots than anything before us, so we do have some power. Dare I get all Spiderman here and note the correlation betwixt Power & Responsibility? Anyhoo, I personally am a big fan of one of your listed traditions, would quibble with the second a bit, and feel strongly that the third is something we all can quash. To wit:

Citing mildly relevant statistics: One of my favorite time-honored web traditions. As a loyal and participating member of the Website Mob, I adore utilizing this tool (candidly, I mostly enjoy reading others’ use of it, and following up with clarifying inquiries or witty (to me) comments on their use of it). They can be hilarious, when framed with a little bit of satire or sarcasm, and can be used to turn nearly anything to your teams’ position. Not at all unlike a religious or political discussion.

Drawing wild conclusions to posit false truths: Agree with the first part, but not the second. Painting a prosey argument (starting with mildly relevant stats, of course) that finds its way to a wild conclusion is an integral activity to a mobster if he/she is to garner any more than a passing readership or interest. But who’s to say what’s True? We posit conclusions, and the rest of the mob determine its Truth or Falsity. Anyway, I get what you’re saying.

Raving like a lunatic: is itself also interpretive (could easily be applied to this posters post), but I also know to what you refer. Flamers are dbags and immature. Their minds and their habits are not yet developed enough to effectively participate in Joe’s Web Mob. BSD does a fine job of minimizing lunatical ravings mostly by peer pressure. We tune out the shouters, ignore the ravings, and generally pass judgment on what is a good (readable, commentable) post and what should be left to fade into bolivian. The teaching is all around us, tho I’ll posit no predictions as to its eventual efficacy. Of course, use of big-time nerd tools doesn’t hurt either.

Convivite Nudem!

by jtothep on Jul 23, 2008 11:08 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That was funny

I saw that exchange and just laughed. I thought about jumping in to defend you but didn’t want to add fuel to his preconceived notion that all PSU fans are whiners. But it’s funny how they can all rip JoePa up and down all day long and as soon as we crack a joke about their school we get labeled as a bunch of lunatics.

by BSD on Jul 22, 2008 2:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

UM and PSU

I think it is something more than coaching and game plans. It always seemed to me that UM was the more physical team and played with more confidence.

It just has to end. I have never gotten rid of the pit in my gut from the 05 game. Nine in a row is just ridiculous.

by hartmann on Jul 22, 2008 1:14 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Michigan

Until it is proven that the nexus of Bad Coaching, Bad Execution, and Bad Karma is not the PSU/Michigan game, how can you say that this game is more than a toss up?

Michigan should have a down year and should have problems moving the ball against us, but until I see what Spread HD another 6-4 special is always possibility.

I have been to every one of these games since 2001 (and was there in 1999). I don’t think a 20 point line would make me comfortable against Michigan. Nothing makes me comfortable until the clock strikes 0:00.

by WallyC on Jul 22, 2008 4:06 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

just a couple of clarifications/corrections

from a Michigan fan.

LB: Shawn Crable and Chris Graham were not “two excellent linebackers…” Shawn Crable was very athletic, if not somewhat undisciplined. Chris Graham, imo, was merely adequate. Also, I would hardly call Austin Panter a “journeyman” and one who played “mostly on special teams throughout his Michigan career.” In fact, his Michigan career at this point spans the 2007 season, as he was one of those very rare, once-in-a-decade JUCO transfers. The former point is one of substance, the latter is more of a nit.

The relevant questions for the PSU fans here are, “How good will Michigan’s defense be?”, “How well will Michigan’s be playing by Week 8 when they arrive in Happy Valley?”, and “What of PSU’s own new so-called Spread HD offense with a new QB?” (ok, that last one is a question I have). I have confidence in the M defense, personally. As for the offense, it’s an enigma at this point. It may struggle all year (heaven forbid), or it may have come together by week 3-4-5 and be pretty good.

Chances are that the defenses will be dominant in this game and neither team will score a ton. For that very reason, I would expect a toss-up, past records be damned (but oh-so-lovingly thrown back in your faces).

by georgiablue on Jul 23, 2008 8:54 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

about the offense

it’s not the new system that is going to hurt Michigan, it’s that they don’t have the personal to run it. The line is totally depleated that’s to graduation and the free agent market tranfers. Both QBs in question are hardly built for RichRod’s offense, and the recievers are all green. The running back situation appears to be just fine, but without a line that’s a bit moot. I think saying “it will come together” means the pieces are all there. The biggest question is weather, even if things work out great, the personal will be able to match the performance of White/Slaton and Devine. Right now, I doubt it.

I also think the HD doesn’t really depend on the QB as much as it does on the play calling. Most psu fans agree that, regardless of who takes over, 2008 represents an upgrade at the position, not a question mark. In addition, there are two very capable players, shilding the team from injury or repeated letdown in performance.

The way this will succeed is if (and I’m cringing a bit) they give Jay more freedom. If we run the same old crap on the ground with a more “wide open” version of the same old crap in the air, nothing will change. That being said, the prospects of Green, Royster, Clark and WIlliams all in the backfield is down right awesome and opens up our playbook in ways that were never possible before.

by Kevin HD on Jul 23, 2008 9:10 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Veteran & Talented...

O-Line must just raise the confidence level of the backs…hell, “BSD/Mike” could even get 3ypc behind them! What # do you want to wear boyyyee? Should we break-out the “00” buckshot for ya?!

Old School... MEETS New School!

by BlueWhiteLife on Jul 23, 2008 9:30 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

3?

C’mon man. I could get at least 3.2 ypc.

by BSD on Jul 23, 2008 9:48 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

eyyyye don't know man...

missed you @ “Lift for Life!” I could have evaluated you betta! LOL

Old School... MEETS New School!

by BlueWhiteLife on Jul 23, 2008 10:57 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good stuff...

Yet another entertaining thread. I must say: As a U-Mer who goes back a few years, I wasn’t initially a fan of PSU’s addition, but now I spend more time scanning BSD/RUTS for Paterno talk and to-play-Pitt-or-not chatter than I do on any non-U-M site.

I think it’s the tone. There’s none of the outrageous anger or baseless arrogance found on Sparty and ND boards, respectively. Good stuff.

As for this year’s game: PSU should be fine. (Should.) PSU fans surely know this better than me, but it seems like State is a much better offensive team at home. Even in ‘05, the Lions were overly tight in A2 until the fourth quarter. U-M plays pretty much the same regardless of venue (or at least it has until now), but PSU is different.

At home, against a young offense that should be prone to turnovers (if U-M chooses to throw) and/or three-and-outs (if it doesn’t), PSU should be able to score in the 20s. I just don’t think we’re ready to match that against a good team—not without some help. Of course, I hope I’m wrong.

by Richard96 on Jul 23, 2008 1:14 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just a couple of notes on the article and comments

- No Michigan fan thinks of Chris Graham as a good linebacker. Crable was good but prone to spectacular brain farts. Their linebackers will probably be at least as good this year.

- There is one difference between the 2005 (terrible Michigan team) and 2007 (true freshman starting for Michigan at QB with a training wheels offense) losses and this year’s game—this time it’s @PSU instead of in Ann Arbor. Of course, if PSU can’t do it this year, you may as well sign the title of PSU football over to the University of Michigan, as ownership will have been confirmed on the field.

- The 2002 Tony Johnson play wasn’t what triggered the Big Ten’s look at instant replay, though Michigan was indeed involved in the game that did—it was the 2000 Illinois/Michigan game that led to the conference looking into it in the first place. They were actually already compiling data in 2002 relating to instant replay as part of their investigation into the feasibility and how badly it would add delay to games. I do think that call probably changed JoePa’s mind on it though, and there were some other notable bad calls that year in other conference games, giving it enough support that they did decide to implement it.

But overall, a good preview, nice job. I’m expecting 7-5 as well, and will be pleasantly surprised with anything better. As long as they beat Michigan State, their fans are already becoming insufferable with their latest “we’re back” garbage, and their coach is a mouthy twerp. Beating them during a true rebuilding year for M would ideally shut them up (but it won’t, little brothers never stop whining).

by Yinka Double Dare on Jul 23, 2008 2:23 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To all the UM posters

Thanks for your inside comments on your team. It’s nice to read mature, rational comments from an opponent’s fan, w/o all the “you suck, we’re gonna beat you” attitude. Welcome to BSD!

by NJ lion on Jul 23, 2008 2:30 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

Though we take jabs at their team often here, I’ve always felt that Michigan fans carry themselves with more dignity than any other fan base in the Big Ten. They represent their school well.

by BSD on Jul 23, 2008 2:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

one quibble

“overhyped junior LaTerrval Savoy” who has been hyping Savoy? I realize that in the strictest sense overhype means that he recieved more hype than he earned and in that sense your mention qualifies as overhype. However, that statement usually implies a certain level of hype and I have unaware of any such thing. Unless I’ve been missing something, I don’t expect Savoy to do anything except on special teams.

I understand that Utah has become the media darling and I see why. I wonder if that hasn’t been overplayed. There’s no chance of Michigan looking past Utah, which is often the source of problems and Utah has got nothing to help them prepare tape wise. None of us have any idea what the offense or defense, but mostly the offense, will look like.

by blue-imafreak on Jul 23, 2008 2:57 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll take your word for it on Savoy

I read an article somewhere that said he hadn’t lived up to his hype when he was recruited out of high school. That’s what I was referring to.

by BSD on Jul 23, 2008 3:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I never type Savoy's first name because--how to spell?

I certainly did not mean that as a criticism. I just thought it was funny. When Savoy signed mgoblog did their thing and it made me think, "that guy’s never going to play." I thought that mostly because Michigan’s roster is full of "the next Braylon, Howard, Terrell, Carter’s" but Savoy isn’t one of them. You could have described any other WR as overhyped and I would have agreed.

I just started getting in gear for football season which means scouring ebay for tickets and inviting people over for dinner that I hope can hook me up. My Steelers connection is out of town (and so far I’m striking out on the Steelers @ Redskins Monday nighter) so I had the wife invite our friends with deep political connections in Pennsylvania over. The ones who said, "next time Michigan plays in Happy Valley we all should go together." If you see a drunk guy in a "Worst state ever (Ohio)" t-shirt Oct. 18, that’ll be me.

by blue-imafreak on Jul 25, 2008 9:59 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As a Michigan Fan

I think Penn State is the dark horse to compete with Ohio State to win the conference. You guys have a great defense (personally, I think it’s going to be better than Ohio State’s), and a solid offense. While there are questions about quarterback in Happy Valley, it’s almost better than Ohio State. They have in my opinion a proven incompetent quarterback. There defense hasn’t proven it can defend the spread and their offensive line hasn’t proven it can block a fast defensive front, kinda like Penn State’s. If Ohio State runs the table, I would probably pick them to beat whomever they play in the National Championship, whether it’s Florida (weak defense that isn’t physical at all), Georgia (young, inexperienced quarterback and tailback facing a TON of pressure), or Oklahoma. I just think it’s a little early to be counting out Penn State as far as the Big Ten is concerned. I also think Wisconsin is a little overrated. Every Big Ten team has their glaring flaws, but Penn State’s might prove to be an improvement (someone other than Anthony Morelli at quarterback), where Michigan (what offense?), Ohio State (questionable defensive toughness), Michigan State (No receivers or pressuring the quarterback), Illinois (questionable quarterback and running back play in a spread option offense), and Wisconsin (question at quarterback with a mediocre defense). Plus, I think you Penn State fans underrate JoPa as a coach. He’s ALWAYS got his team prepared for bowl games and does well against everyone but Michigan. Now that Lloyd Carr’s gone, who knows now? I’m excited for you guys, I just hope Michigan can be ready when they make it over to Happy Valley.

by Art Corvelay on Jul 26, 2008 4:43 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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