is forgettable. So no surprise there.

...was when they were detailing the confrontation on the street which was the impetus for the beatdown.

They’re attempting to give a play by play of what happened, while a copy of the police report is floating around in the background. I can clearly read (after the punchy-kicky) ”...Scirrotto took out his cell phone and [the guy] slapped it out of his hand, onto the ground.” I would have liked to read some more of that.

But I guess ESPN ignored that part, because it doesn’t mesh with their version of events.

Lastly, the dig on Scirrotto being named captain is what annoyed me the most. The guy made a mistake, was punished by the law, and is trying to own up to it. JoePa sees this, and attempts to use Anthony as an example to inspire the team, highlighting the fact that he is attempting to rectify a past mistake (we’ve all made them). Somehow that gets twisted into “Come to PSU and commit some felonies…you’ll be named captain!!” Ludicrous.

is what players were kicked out of school in the past for things that are being done by current players? That’s an honest question.

Also, I suspect he means the team, as (1) Paterno has nothing to do with who is allowed to actually stay enrolled in the school, and (2) I know of situations where students did things an awful lot worse than anything the football team has done and been allowed to remain at penn state.

By the way, I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. Said non-football players owned up to their mistakes and were able to get their lives back together.

Also, SAS’s segment could not have been any more typical SAS. I’m not even mad.

Come on August 30th…..

1] Penn State was loosing, so we started recruiting thugs, rather than the choir boys that used to play for us. Obviously the criminal charges provide a ton of smoke for this point, and certainly there is a little fire. But three things to consider;

1) Certain guys, who committed serious crimes, were kicked off the team;

2) Guys who got caught doing petty misdemeanor things were punished.  I don’t care how temporary an expulsion is, I certainly wouldn’t want to explain it to my parents; and

3) the graduation rate is still high, and for African Americans, it is unprecedentedly high.  We may be recruiting players differently than we were before, but we are still graduating them.

2] Penn State has changed it’s method of discipline. This is not true. I’ve followed this program for more than 20 years, and the myth that 15 years ago these guys would have gotten kicked off the team no questions asked is just that, a myth. Kicking a guy off the football team and giving away his scholarship for an underage drinking arrest is draconian and cruel. Joe Paterno didn’t do that thirty years ago and he doesn’t do it now. For lots of these kids football is there only chance to go to college, if you take football out of the equation they are lost, to set some sort of blanket zero tolerance policy is foolish.

What I didn’t like about the story is that OTL went in with their minds made up. They made a case against Penn State, rather than reporting a story about Penn State. I liked that PSU made Paterno, Spanier and (especially) Scirotto available. It did not appear that PSU was in massive cover-up mode, rather, they wanted to make as many facts available to the reporters as possible.

Would someone of an age to remember, please enlighten me to the turbulent year of 1979 in Penn State football history? I’ve heard of some of the goings on from the offseason and spilling into the season, but I did not exist yet. Seems that situation was so much worse than what we’re currently dealing with.

Not impressed in Florida.

Most irresponsible story

ESPN’s Outside the Lines does such outstanding work that it’s all the more noticeable when one of its stories fails to meet the high standards it sets. And when a story fails to meet most journalistic standards, it’s disturbing.

Such was the case with Steve Delsohn’s sloppy, irresponsible story on Penn State football. The piece tossed out a bunch of numbers to make it appear as if Joe Paterno’s program is out of control because of off-the-field incidents. The emphasis was on charges and arrests as opposed to convictions. though all numbers were revealed. Worse, the numbers were given no context as to how Penn State compares with other Division I programs, or even the regular student body. That’s Journalism 101.

Only a couple of incidents were mentioned in detail, giving the viewer no clue as to how serious all of the incidents have been. (The highlighted incident appeared to be little more than a late-night party fight.) And the most powerful interviews came from students whose credibility could not be verified.

Paterno, on air, said the piece was a “witch hunt,’’ and he’s right. It’s as if a bunch of producers sat in a room, decided they were going to go after Paterno and his program, and then geared the story, statistics and interviews to fit their agenda. This story fails to pass journalism muster, and it’s quite shocking that a quality show such as OTL would air a piece with so many holes in it.

Everyone’s favorite Penn State writer, David Jones.

Gets a bad rap…I think he is much better reporter than most…he is fair in most cases…being fair can sometimes open you up for attack by PSU kool aid drinkers.

Its tough to be honest in PA when talking about PSU/Paterno…you will get blasted. Do I think he is going for a reaction sometime…yes but it doesn’t mean he is making stuff up.

I almost thought they were going to bring up the Tony Johnson DUI…I mean if you really wanted to discredit the university why not talk about the coaches son who got a dui on park road…or what about the paterno road rage incident…seriously why didn’t they just say that maurice clarrett was now enrolling at PSU or that JoePa required that every player be issued a glock upon enrolling in the school

SAS is a joke and his opinion has no merrit what so ever…he tries to act like he is calm and dignified but two seconds into his arguements he starts talking louder and talking street…I have never liked him and I never will, if I even see he is coming on sports center or any other show on ESPN then turn the channel immediately…I would like to see what the boys at PTI have to say about this b/c you know they would have a way better story and would have better opionions about the subject…atleast they would give the facts and if not Tony would say it at the end of the show any way

we need it to be August 30th sooner than later…I’m surprised they didn’t put anything in the story about us playing CC as the home opener…if you want to talk about our football team beating up on some hapless victims you should start there

(nothing against CC I’m sure you are a fine school with great athletes but lets face facts you are getting paid to come up here and take a butt wooping admit it)

I love how they just brushed over the Austin Scott rape charges. “Charges were later dropped”. Leaving out the fact the the “victim” has done this before and Austin was not guilty of anything other then taking the wrong girl home.

As for those two students who seemed to be enjoying themselves reliving the fight…if 7 football players went into that tiny apartment how could anyone see anything? If it was a crowded party and they show up there would be no way you could see across the room.

If you take Fulmer Cup points over the last 2 or 3 years as any indication of a programs off the field issues, we are right in the hunt for the title. However, so are UT, Alabama, UGA, and Florida. To me, this begs the question….......why Penn State ? Is it because the expectations the WWL has of the other schools is so low or is it because the combination of Penn State Fans and the media in general have held Penn State up as the model program for so long ? Or a little of both. The answer to this question is most likely either a compliment to Penn State in that more has been expected relative to programs like UT, UGA, UF, and Alabama or a get off your high horse PSU fan “what do you think of this piece” by the WWL.

I don’t get ESPN and I have never read anything written by Steven A. Smith.
University of Penn State?? I guess we’re UPS! Maybe we need brown unis.

by mike missanelli (sp?)

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3506616&categoryId=2378529&n8pe6c=2

and since when is being 12th in the graduation rate a bad thing? Assume that Stanford, Northwestern, Notre Dame and a bunch of smaller schools are ahead of PSU. Where is USC? Florida? Oklahoma? 12th in D1 is a great stat that shouldn’t be overlooked.

If your really think fighting didn’t take place in the 60’s 70’s, 80’s and 90’s you are sorely mistaken AND YOU CAN NOT BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. It is just prosecuted today (by an overzealous DA looking to make a name for himself) when then it was just kids being kids. As for people who claim Paterno didn’t used to give second chances…..anybody care to remember why Bobby Engram missed a year of football??? Have PSU football players put themselves in positions they don’t need to be in…..yes. Is it a sign there is a problem with the program…..NO! EVERYDAY STUDENTS were the instigators in the Scirotto incident…...remember the police report states Scirotto was punched and his girlfriend WAS PUSHED TO THE GROUND. I don’t know about the rest of you on here but if somebody pushed my fiance to the ground you had better believe that I would be looking to beat some ass! As for his buddies going with him…....that is football mentality and it is something that is instilled by the coaches. YOU ARE ALWAYS SUPPOSED TO HAVE YOUR TEAMATES BACK! What went on inside and who started throwing blows…..no one can say for sure. What is for sure is that MULTIPLE witnesses say that Justin King was attempting to act as a peacemaker (ahh didn’t hear that in the OTL piece).

Same thing with the HUB incident…..by most accounts started by the non-athletes. Should the boys have known by this point to walk away …...sure. But at 20 years old and getting punked by some frat boys a desire to respond (THOUG WRONG) should be understood by all of us old foggies!

As for Paterno fighting with JA. I HAVE NOT HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT IT! From the information I heard…....he was not significantly involved in the Chris Baker hearing. Witness testimony is what saved Baker with JA…...not Paterno.

The fact that Austin Scott and Scott Paxson were not issued public apologies by the University, by the Daily Collegian and by the Centre County DA is disgusting. AND THE FACT THAT IS WAS GLOSSED OVER BY OTL tells me that we can not take them seriously as reporters. To be a good reporter…...you are supposed to cover all sides of a story. Too frequently today news stations think it is their civic responsibility (ah-hem CNN) to put a political slant on its reporting…......all that does is question credibility. Since OTL didn’t present all parts of the story….... the piece they did is a piece of crap and deserves to be taped over. Maybe if they would have portrayed to good our student athletes do, including both D-Will and Scirotto the piece would have been slightly better.

I look forward to our guys doing it the right way…..the PSU way…...THE PATERNO WAY in 2008! WE ARE!

Nice to see you are making it interesting here also…good to see you bud!

I call total bullshit on the breaking the beer bottle over the guy’s head. Impossible. Try it with a coconut sometime. A bottle will smash a skull before it’ll break over one. That kid has watched too many movies.

I would have liked to have OTL ask the two apartment dwellers whether they knew the 3 guys the players were looking for, and whether THEY were invited guests of the party. Were they friends of theirs? Are they still? Was anyone crowing about how they just showed a badass football player who was boss?

I agree that this was a hit piece planned in advance. I also hate all the ammo the players have given them to make it happen. What struck me, though, was when the numbers of players, charges and convictions were shown on screen. Lots of players, even more charges, but just a fraction thereof of convictions or guilty pleas. Why is that?

Yes, the players need some leaders on the team to step up and take charge, and get this shit stopped.

It’s also quite obvious that over recent years, the Centre County DA has been charging a lot of people (at least football players, anyway) with crimes that he then can’t support. I’m too lazy to look back and do the math, but of the litany of charges that were listed in this piece, what was the actual conviction / guilty plea rate? 20%? 15%? What was the percentage of felony count convictions or guilty pleas?

Who was it that said he didn’t care what people wrote about him as long as they spelled his name right? Poor old SAS failed miserably. But loudly, at least. University of Penn State? Sheesh.

What’s with the highlighted section in my post above?

The second sentence should read “I also hate all the ammo the players have given them to make it happen’.

Double dang.

At this point, we’ve beaten this thing pretty much to death. The OTL story was news, old news, but news I suppose. I thought the reporting was a little suspect but that’s not my decision to make.

The Meridian incident was preposterously poor judgment on the part of the players. Of course, we shouldn’t condone activity like that, or even go out of our way to explain it. On the other hand, since nobody knows what happened in the apartment, and the only information we have are wild accusations and unverified speculation, I think it’s awfully presumptions of anybody to make blanket character judgments against these kids, all of whom had different degrees of involvement in the incident. None of the accusations made by the students interviewed by OTL passed even the most lenient standards of judicial muster, and that says something to me.

FWIW, I think our role as Penn State fans is to act like educated, reasonable human beings, not zealots. It’s good to have people who will call bullshit on the football team and even Paterno from time to time. But when it rises to the level of an agenda that finds fault in everything, and ignores contrary evidence, I think that is bullshit too.

We dropped to 7th in the Fulmer Cup.

http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2008/07/29/fulmer-cupdate-sprinting-to-the-end/

Is no different that every other delusional anti-homer who thinks they know better than the folks in Lasch. He doesn’t need facts, and he’s never wrong, he ignores the good things and only talks about the bad things…end o’ story. For those of you who read FOS, he’s basically Lion King 25.

Here’s what I didn’t like about OTL:

1) The anti-JoePa agenda. Spanier, Bracken, Lichtenfels (Pitt fan), SAS…the list goes on. One fuckin’ guy (AS) to give an opposing point of view, but we’ll give the amateur wrestler 30 seconds to show us elbow drops and stool bashings.
2) The math of the injuries. By my count, there was a guy being beaten to a bloody pulp on the futon (WOOOOOO!!!), a guy taking a stool to the head, and a guy bouncing up and down while unconscious on the countertop. Yet only two guys had injuries that were deemed hospital-worthy. Uh huh.
3) The little point that they didn’t prove their premise. Show me what these guys did in high school that we should’ve backed off. Show me some Noel Devine/Willie Wilson behavior. Not a SINGLE fact to prove that the “Dark Years” caused us to recruit the scum of the earth.
4) JoePa’s interview: I’m sorry, but I don’t believe for a second that that’s all he said. But hey, why not just show the things that make it look like this type of behavior doesn’t bother him?
5) The overall bias: I thought a program like OTL was supposed to show all angles. Unfortunately, 90% of the show was used as a hit piece on PSU players/coaches. Ignore Special Olympics, ignore Lift for Life, provide about 3 seconds to detail academics, mock AS as a captain, etc. Ludicrous.

That’s my take. Oh, and if we’d all just ignore M1EK, this thread would be much better off and much more productive.