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Paterno Dismisses Chris Baker and Phil Taylor From Team

Hard to figure out where to start with this one:

Sources close to the team report to FightOnState.com that during a squad meeting Tuesday, head coach Joe Paterno announced defensive tackles Chris Baker and Phillip Taylor had been dismissed earlier in the day. According to the sources, Paterno said the dismissals were permanent.

"Joe said he was fed up with both players," said one source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. A third source said the dismissals were the result of a recent off-field incident, but did not have further details.

Local law enforcement officials report that neither player has been charged with a crime in the past 10 days. Penn State football spokesman Guido D'Elia was in Pittsburgh on business Tuesday and could neither confirm nor deny the dismissals.

Even if the accounts of another off-field incident are true, without any sort of formal charges or academic issues, it's going to be very difficult for the football program to spin this as anything less than a knee-jerk reaction to the Outside The Lines story.  It looks really bad, even when you consider that because practice starts next week, the time to dismiss players from the team is right now.

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And yes, speaking of that story, David Jones has another excellent column on the topic, including a quick conversation with Centre County District Attorney, Michael Madeira, and the relatively unspoken controversy about what ESPN didn't broadcast during the OTL segment:

In Sunday's column, Brian Gelzheiser was referenced. In 1991, he was tossed off the team and out of school for a year for attempting to use the lost credit card of another student, a charge for which he maintains innocence even today.

Gelzheiser told me he spoke to someone at ESPN. I assumed it was reporter Steve Delsohn. In fact, Delsohn e-mailed me on Sunday night that it was a producer helping to report the "OTL" story. In any event, Gelzheiser said he was annoyed by the producer's perception that recent teams are full of "bad kids" while mentioning the broadly held assumption that PSU players in Gelzheiser's day and prior rarely got in trouble.

Later on, I asked Gelzheiser, who is white, if he thought there is subtle racism present in this dichotomy and perhaps subconsciously in the "OTL" story. "Oh, there is," he answered.

I'd have to agree to at least some extent. (Incidentally, it's an issue ESPN's increasingly irrelevant carnival barker, Stephen A. Smith, could have raised after one of Sunday's "OTL" telecasts rather than the trite diatribe he loosed on Joe Paterno and what he repeatedly called "The University of Penn State.")

In our Sunday column, Gelzheiser and Nittany Lions predecessors Keith Dorney, Matt Millen, Dave Opfar and Jim Litterelle -- all white -- recalled the many fights and drunken escapades they took part in decades past. All asserted they were far from "choirboys."

They also didn't show any of the interview with PSU captain, A.Q. Shipley.  A lot of people both here at BSD and elsewhere were nipping around the same issue.  Not that anyone is proud of either incident, but why give the kids at the Meridian apartment such expansive airtime, allowing them to comically reenact the melee (in front of a "Snakes On A Plane" poster, no less) but barely mention the incident at the HUB, which involved a victim from a black fraternity? 

Still, that's just a grating footnote to the ordeal.  Hopefully, we can begin to focus on how Penn State will replace two defensive tackles, and not why they have to replace two defensive tackles.  But given recent history, we won't hold our breath.

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Racism........

in what sense ?

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Jul 30, 2008 9:33 AM EDT reply actions  

I believe what Jones and Gelzheiser are getting at...

Two things, actually:

1) ESPN breathlessly reported that bunch of black players went in to an apartment and beat up some white kids, and gave those kids (and one of their All-American, Wood Stacking parents) significant airtime, but when it’s a black-on-black incident like the HUB, it’s not deemed as newsworthy.

2) ESPN took time to interview a group of former (white) players who said, “yeah, we’ve never been a bunch of angels, why are you even looking into this?”, and then didn’t show the interviews because they couldn’t prove that Penn State had consciously gone down the trail notoriously blazed by Bill McCartney at Colorado in the early 90’s by consciously recruiting minority players with questionable backgrounds.

Like I said, it’s a minor complaint, and it would need a lot more evidence to be anything substantial.

by Run Up The Score on Jul 30, 2008 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah but, yeah but.

They had to interview Scirrotto if he was made available.

Just curious, why do you think ESPN barely touched on the HUB fight? Wouldn’t that have been more ammunition to ask Paterno, “why the hell are these guys still on the team?”

by Run Up The Score on Jul 30, 2008 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because

the HUB fight is arguably much closer to “just a fight”. And, by the way, that also torpedoes your racism theory – the HUB fight would have played up that angle much better than did the Meridian incident.

by M1EK on Jul 30, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Multiple guys in a circle stomping a guy is "just a fight"?

My man, you’ve gone soft!

And I think you’re wrong about the racism theory—the media loves to run with black-on-white stuff and tends to dismiss black-on-black. Hell, the Philadelphia papers are experts at this tactic, not to mentoin cable news outlets.

But like I said, it takes a lot more evidence to be able to label the ESPN report racist. We’re not there, not even close.

by Run Up The Score on Jul 30, 2008 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I said "much closer".

I don’t think the HUB thing was “just a fight” either (I’d call it a “huge brawl”) – but the apartment incident was so far away that it’s not even in the same galaxy (which is why I’m so pissed at you for calling it that so many times now).

by M1EK on Jul 30, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

i didn't want to say it, but i agree

I would suggest this as back-reading. It’s long but I highly recommend it:

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/04/stand-back-and-watch-pros-blog.html

as RUTS says, there’s no evidence, but that doesn’t change my opinion.

more on who we’ve been recruiting this afternoon…

by KevinHD on Jul 30, 2008 9:50 AM EDT reply actions  

Archers ready...

What about EZ Smith and his merry men? That is an issue in the current era of drunken shenanigans involving the entire offensive line.

by cpm126 on Jul 30, 2008 9:54 AM EDT reply actions  

DTs

Would those guys even have started in the first few games? Cracked the rotation? We still have a bunch of guys ahead of them. I’m hoping Okoli and Still have big seasons helping out the DLine. I don’t know if this loss is as big as we thought. By the time these guys would be ready to play we’ll have some seasoned vets already in a rhythm.

by psuphiman80 on Jul 30, 2008 9:57 AM EDT reply actions  

good point

but i really hate the timing of this. they are normally (and justly, i think) very quite about these types of things, but in this case I think they need to make it clear that this was not a reaction to OTL by explaining the situation.

by KevinHD on Jul 30, 2008 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

“but” how could one prove that it was not a “knee jerk”...is there a sole that had been reading/following this fine BSD site over the past few days that DID NOT feel the same way after they read it this morning?

THE LAST FREAKING THING I WANT IS OTL/ESPN to “believe” THAT THEIR CRACK-POT REPORTING ACTUALLY PRODUCED A RESULT LIKE THIS!

H E L L L L L L L L L L L L NO!

Old School... MEETS New School!

by BlueWhiteLife on Jul 30, 2008 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mixed feelings on that.

Baker was a very good contributor on the field. Taylor…ehh, more wasted potential than anything, and FOS was reporting that he was far above 350 pounds after “working out on his own” this summer. I didn’t know that D.P. Dough had a gym.

by Run Up The Score on Jul 30, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

DP Dough Work out...

Are you not the king of the DP Dough “Construction Zone” workout?

Personally I was a fan of the “Burrito as big as your head” workout.

by SweepTheLeg on Jul 30, 2008 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

If my memory serves me correctly

I would’ve been the king of the Buffalo Zone workout.

by Run Up The Score on Jul 30, 2008 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Baker Yes, Taylor No

From everything I have read Baker would have been an important player on the D-line. He would not have been a starter, but would have been used often.

Taylor would probably only have played in blowouts.

The strength of the DTs was supposed to be depth, now that has obviously taken a hit.

by DrDetroit on Jul 30, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

The doctor!

One of my favorite bad movies, Dr. Detroit.

by Run Up The Score on Jul 30, 2008 10:12 AM EDT reply actions  

Absolutely!

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Jul 30, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't Forget.......

DC Cab.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Jul 30, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

And who is the knee jerk reaction from........

Spanier seemed much more willing to pander to OTL than Paterno did….again this could be editing…..but we will never know. I think we have to consider that the decision to remove Baker and Taylor came from the higher-ups at the University. Both are big losses for a depth standpoint.

I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Jul 30, 2008 10:26 AM EDT reply actions  

2006 class

So now Logan-El, Bell, Baker, and Taylor are all gone from the team. All are from that highly rated recruiting class of 2006. If anything, this discredits ESPN’s angle that Penn State sold it’s soul to the devil b/c we were losing so much. Those guys are all from a class that signed on after our best season in over a decade.

by speedomike on Jul 30, 2008 10:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Regardless

It just shows how sloppy ESPN was in their coverage. They completed speculated on one their main points that we lowered our standards b/c of the losings seasons from 2000-2004 and provided no further proof than Michael Haynes and Bob Lichentenfels making some very broad statements about it.

by speedomike on Jul 30, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

broad and dumb

with not one single tangible example. totally agree.

by KevinHD on Jul 30, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

A Loss

Going purely by play on the field, I think Baker might have been the best of the group last year. With a little luck, a good four man rotation will emerge from the remaining five allowing one that gets injured or just doesn’t pan out. This is a loss no matter how you slice it.

by hartmann on Jul 30, 2008 11:57 AM EDT reply actions  

Collegian Article

says that there was an incident at a pool party and that football players might have been involved.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2008/07/30/baker_taylor_removed_from_foot.aspx

"Boy that student section now is up and really making a gigantic amount of noise. You see the sea of white, the white out. Well they are 2 minutes and 28 seconds away from the whiteout of the Buckeyes here tonight." - Ron Franklin

by rmcmillen50 on Jul 30, 2008 2:32 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

If This Is True.......

Any Director’s Cup points for winning the Fulmer Cup ?

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Jul 30, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope

plus it’ll be tough to win this year. Bama and WVU have it pretty well locked up.

by psuphiman80 on Jul 30, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow...

Just wow…these knuckle heads are killing me if it was them.

by SweepTheLeg on Jul 30, 2008 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just a thought

The ESPN report said two players mentioned that Paterno sent a text to the entire team threatening to dismiss anyone that spoke to JA. And now today two players were dismissed. Coincidence?

by BSD on Jul 30, 2008 10:37 PM EDT reply actions  

my favorite part of all this mess...

Paterno’s quote:
“I don’t know how to send text messages, I don’t even own a computer!”

by erieisforlovers on Jul 31, 2008 11:32 PM EDT reply actions  

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