Determining A Third Party Rooting Interest
With the season almost here, and the BTN up and running at most of our homes, I can't help but wonder how I am going to handle the Big Ten's non-conference games this year. I am talking about, of course, who I am going to be rooting for. While my third party fandom is usually rather pale, there are a couple of very exciting games this season. Each game has both real and imagined "perception" implications. Let's take a look...
Illinois v Missouri - 8:30 pm

Illinois enters this neutral site rivalry as 8.5 point dogs, with last season's six point loss fresh on everyone's minds. This year's #20 vs. #6 matchup will probably look similar, with the difference being the major upgrade in overall confidence, hampered slightly by the Zooker's loss of backfield monster Rashard Mendenhall.
A Big Ten Win Means....A major upgrade in conference respect. Overshadowed only by this season's Game Of The Century, a Big Ten win over a much-hyped (and much-talented, by the way) Missouri team would mean more ammo for you fearless conference debaters out there. It also means Illinois, a team I think is in for a bit of a regression, could actually be a legitimate threat to win the conference championship.
A Big Ten Loss Means...Not much, although I suppose it depends on the score. A game similar to the one played last year (minus with Williams being knocked out in the second quarter) would probably fit into everyone's preseason opinions nicely and do little in the way of perception damage. A blowout, on the other hand, means more trouble and more pressure on OSU to defend a Big Ten reputation they seem adamant (although too often unable) to protect. It could also take some of the luster out of the night game in Happy Valley.
Utah@ Michigan - 3:30 pm
The much anticipated debut of the Anti-Michigan Man against a "Mid-Major" capable to playing the role of spoiler. Michigan is just a three-point favorite at home and will likely be starting a "Hide The Children" quarterback. Utah has to smell blood here, and with 14 returning starters and a Rivals ranking in the 20's, this one could be fun to watch.
A Big Ten Win Means....Michigan isn't in for a 2007 Notre Dame type slide, and that Michigan has a really good defense. There is less upside here, of course, because Utah isn't Boise State and they obviously don't play in a BCS conference.
A Big Ten Loss Means...Another year with Michigan as a potential punchline. It also sets up a more troubling 2005/2007 type game against PSU, with the difference being this one will be in Happy Valley. What really makes this streak hurt is that there are some many games where Paterno had the much better team, and if he thinks Michigan is weak I worry the head coach will again find it appropriate to play zero-risk, zero-reward football and attempt to painfully grind out a win...a strategy that obviously hasn't worked in the past.
Michigan State @ Cal - 8:00 pm
One of the potential Big Ten sleepers takes its week one road show out west as 3.5 point dogs against a Cal team that is probably looking at a four or five loss season (worth noting that, with a lot of untested players, quicker than expected improvement could result in a much better record than that). MSU is probably lucky to have them early in the season, although, as we've discussed before, the Big Ten has struggled out west.
A Big Ten Win Means....Michigan State gets past the 'dark horse' talk and becomes a real life contender for the conference. With a seemingly quality win on the road, Michigan State will have the confidence to ride out six or seven wins before performing their patented late season FAIL. Or, maybe they're over that, in which case we can start building this rivalry already. A win means our Big Ten finale will have some potential implications, instead of being an afterthought involving a perpetually mediocre and downhill sliding Spartan team against a Penn State team that can't seem to get over the hump. It is also the first episode in a four part series involving the West Coast and Midwest, one that will surely be talked about when we do the whole "what conference is playing the best?" song and dance during the BCS Championship Game selection process.
A Big Ten Loss Means...that home field advantage was probably the difference in what Vegas considers two relatively evenly matched teams. It also means Michigan State might not be ready to make that leap into the top tier of the conference like everyone is "fearlessly predicting". Both of these teams have a lot of questions, so it might not be totally clear what this game means until later in the season.
1 recs |
46 comments
Comments
Torn
I just can never figure out if I should root for another Big Ten team not playing PSU or if I should just hope for a trainwreck. On one hand there’s conference respect and on the other there’s watching a team you hate go down in flames (Michigan).
by smashmouthsteel on Aug 26, 2008 9:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
This is probably the widest gulf between SEC fans and Big Ten fans. I have a hard time rooting for the top tier programs in the Big Ten to defeat non-cons. I honestly think conference disgrace is a better alternative to Jim Tressel smiling next to 3 NCAA trophies. Well, maybe not smiling, but looking less displeased.
by Cairo on Aug 26, 2008 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i tend to leand toward the 'flames' idea
Mostly because i don’t think the conference thing really matters. People will point out that if you go undefeated but your conference has no “respect” you may be shut out but it’s clear from the past that the voters simply look at the teams and the potential matchup, not sagarin’s conference rankings.
Also, laughing at your enemies is fun.
Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries
by Kevin HD on Aug 26, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I root for the other Big10 schools OOC, simply so it’s more impressive when we beat them.
I’m sick of people who say “You only beat Purdue, or you only beat Wisconsin.”
I get it that people are only impressed with wins over OSU or Michigan, but to demean our victories for not being good enough is silly. Curiously, it’s mostly PSU fans bitching about being 29-9 with three bowl wins over the past three years who say these things.
by Tailgate Shogun on Aug 26, 2008 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking 4 teams in the Pac10-Big10 Challenge
Ohio State – USC
Purdue – Oregon
Penn State – Oregon State
Michigan State – Cal
All of them are intriguing matchups of teams that are roughly balanced.
by Cairo on Aug 26, 2008 10:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i forget about purdue
Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries
by Kevin HD on Aug 26, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't we all?
They’re the most forgettable team in the conference.
by Run Up The Score on Aug 26, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tough But Gotta Be Big 10
As much as everyone would like to see a Mich or OSU loss, the reality is we want that loss to come against us, not out of conference teams. It only benefits the conference as a whole, as well as Penn State if we win our non conference games.
Ill has to be Mizz, cause then that night game will be more meaningful, and both teams should still be in the top 20. Same goes for OSU. They beat USC, odds are we end up playing them again when they are #1 in the country. You always want your conference to win so they have a higher ranking when we play them. It doesn’t matter if other teams are threats to win the Big 10 title or not, because if we can’t beat them head on, we don’t deserve to win.
by Craig07 on Aug 26, 2008 10:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Big 10....
I always root for the Big 10 no matter what. If you want what’s best for your school, you have to root to have the conference respected. That only happens with wins. Whether PSU goes 8-4 or 11-1 has nothing to do with Michigan or OSU winning all their OOC games. Michigan and OSU could still lose the Big 10 title after winning all their OOC games. Not to mention the fact that when your conferences overall OOC is so poor you REALLY cant afford to have your teams losing. In the absence of a playoff, public perception is to strong a force in slotting the teams. I think if you want your team to be in the NC hunt at the end of the season you have to root for your conference to do well.
Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.
by ech2os on Aug 26, 2008 10:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Always?
So did you feel bad when Michigan lost to Appalachian State last year?
by Cairo on Aug 26, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does not apply to Michigan
Not until we beat them, at least.
by Run Up The Score on Aug 26, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely.
I was embarrassed. The 2nd I would talk to somebody after that game, they would look at my PSU hat and say something to the effect of……..man, how bad is the big 10 ?
Herbstreit does a 30 minute radio spot each week on the local ESPN affiliate down here……wait…..actually it was on the college football preview show ESPN ran on Saturday…..to paraphrase………“The Big 10 is a punch line around the country”. That from an OSU QB and arguably an OSU homer when off the air.
Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.
by ech2os on Aug 26, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know how you feel
A week after the Michigan/App St. game a local radio station wanted to interview me the morning of our game against Notre Dame. So I dial into the show and I’m on hold getting all pumped up to talk PSU football. The guy comes on and introduces me as the blogger at BSD and gives me a nice plug. Then his first question goes “So, how bad will Michigan’s loss to Appalachian State hurt the Big Ten and Penn State.”
It was embarrassing for me to have to defend Michigan’s loss and our conference’s poor showing the previous year. I felt like telling the guy Penn State is taking care of business out of the conference and that’s all that matters to me. But the truth is how well Michigan and Ohio State do outside of the conference does matter to me.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Aug 26, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
I did not feel the same way. The thing that frustrates me is this game promoted a misguided belief that this was some sort of introduction of the Spread Offense into the Big Ten.
by Cairo on Aug 26, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PSU lost to the team that lost to App State
I was sooooo tired of hearing that after we lost to Michigan. Although I absolutely loved seeing them lose to App State.
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on Aug 26, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not even a question...
…you should ALWAYS be rooting for conference teams to win OOC games.
Let’s face it, the national perception of the B10 right now is absolute crap, whether deserved or undeserved. To prove that point, I’ll pose the following question to you:
Suppose PSU is in contention for the MNC. Apart from our great year, what do you think will be the first thing that the pollsters will think of? Will it be…
A.) The fact that PSU takes care of business in bowl games, or
B.) The fact that the B10 is 0 for 4 in the BCS for the past two years.
Anyone who says “A” is fooling themselves, which is exactly why this conference needs to build its credibility back up. Wins over teams like Cal, USC, Oregon St, Mizzou, Oregon, and even Utah will do this.
No brainer.
"We heard all that talk all week about the SEC and their speed, but we knew personally that they weren't nearly as tough as us."
-Tony Hunt
by Cpiritual27 on Aug 26, 2008 10:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great Point
But it’s still hard as hell to cheer for a Michigan or OSU or even Illinois. I’m a die hard Steelers fan and I’m still coming to grips with Santonio Holmes – let alone we just picked up Mendenhall – who freaking torched PSU last year.
by smashmouthsteel on Aug 26, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Can Be a Stillers Fan
And still hate Santonio Holmes. That dude’s a bitch. Vintage old-school OSU sucka.
Don’t feel like you have to come to grips with his punk ass. In fact, you can use this as you cheer your team and your quarterback: ’don’t you drop that you punkass bitch!’ ‘Ok, go ahead, show your colors, dbag; yeah, you caught it. You just invented sliced bread. Soak it up.’
Frick, I hate that guy.
Convivite Nudem!
by jtothep on Aug 26, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everytime Pittsburgh ESPN Radio interviews either
Larry Foote or Lamar Woodley they play “The Victors” in the background, just piss off the Penn State fans.
For the Glory; National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,
by jesse. on Aug 26, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
with few exceptions
In general I agree, but what you really want is for the teams you play that year to win. That improves your strength of schedule more than conference perception.
As a ridiculous example, the best case scenario for us is to win all our NC games, and for Oregon State to go 11-1 and win the Pac-10, and Syracuse to go 11-1 and win the Big East (yes, I know, neither is going to happen). So we should root for Syracuse to beat Northwestern, as we don’t actually play NU this year.
That being said, I’ll proably root for all Big Ten teams not named Michigan. That goes back way before “the streak”
by pjk on Aug 26, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My outlook exactly...
It only helps us when B10 teams beat everybody but us. But if we don’t play ’em, screw ’em.
"A setback is just a set up for a comeback." -Drew Brees
by kajpsu on Aug 26, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thursday Game To Watch
Oregon State at Stanford is Thursday night.
I can not believe this wasn’t mentioned as a game to watch because of the implications for next week with Penn State.
by DrDetroit on Aug 26, 2008 10:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
this was only meant to include games involving Big Ten schools.
I agree, that is a very interesting game, but I think we can all agree it’s going to be easy to root for OSU in that one.
Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries
by Kevin HD on Aug 26, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very interesting indeed
Especially because I think Mike Riley can coach circles around our staff. If they can fill in the gaps on their defense, they’re going to be a really tough game. So it’ll be intriguing to see what a supposedly revamped Stanford team can do.
by Run Up The Score on Aug 26, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just can't cheer for certain teams
Like Michigan. Just can’t do it. But sure, I’ll cheer for Michigan State and for Purdue in their games vs the Pac-10. Ohio State? Maybe I’ll be able to hold my nose and cheer for them against USC (but I won’t be heartbroken if they lose). I’ll definitely cheer for Big Ten teams in OOC games, as long as they’re not named Michigan or Ohio State. For those two, it’s a case-by-case basis.
Let's Go State!
by Gopher Broke on Aug 26, 2008 10:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For Me
It’s a matter of two things:
1. Fan camaraderie
2. Hate
I’m with you: I also just can’t cheer for certain teams. Notre Dame sits at the top of my list of Teams I Hate. And there’s myriad reasons. Number one of which is the holier-than-thou-ness of their fans. I don’t have any friends who are Notre Dame fans. The people from my hometown who are, are just not cool. And I’m an openminded and very diverse guy. I’ve got friends in New Zealand and Korea, but no Notre Dame friends. Why? Mostly, their fans suck. And, I’ve also been lucky I’ve never met any cool people who also happen to root for those guys. But, it’s possible I may still. I’m only 37. That’s a bunch of years of opportunity to meet many hundreds of cool people. So, it could change. History says it will. (tho, granted, they’ll have to start out pretty freakin cool to sustain the hit they’ll take when I learn they’re an nd fan).
The older we get, these Teams We Hate do change. In the 90s, my top 3 were Nebraska, Miami & Ohio State. In 99, Chafie started a fuse that’s burned up through the larry coker caricature brawl era, them beginning to really suck, up to now a coach who I really respect in Randy Shannon. I couldn’t stand Nebraska’s cornfed stereotype and the fauxness of the ‘blackshirts’ on a bunch of white boys. And Tom Osborne? Hated him. He was always getting credit for being JoePa, but had no personality. 94’s shite nailed the coffin. But him leaving, them thinking Solich wasn’t good enough, a sweet beatdown under the Beav’s lights in 2002, and an unbelievably friendly visit to Lincoln in 2003 (tho we both sucked), and they’ve kinda dropped off my hate list. My gawd, those fans were great! And now I’ve got two good Ohio State fan friends. And with their dominance and my maturity, they’ve dropped off my Teams I Hate list and sit firmly atop the Teams I Want PSU To Pound the Shite Out Of list. But them goin out to Southern Cal? I only slightly cringe as I write ‘go buckeyes’
It’s all about people, man. Fans I meet can sway my Hate List real quick. In either direction. Right now, because of the people I know, I root for the Big Ten in OOC. Who knows? If I can ever get myself out to Columbus, or Madison, or Ann Arbor, maybe that would change.
Convivite Nudem!
by jtothep on Aug 26, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. I will NEVER root for:
Michigan
Florida State
Miami
Just can’t do it. As Dana Carvey would say, “Not gonna do it. Not gonna do it.”
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on Aug 26, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and ND....that's understood
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on Aug 26, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I usually support Big 10 but I want to see Michigan humiliated
I want them to lose by 10 to Utah. Lose to Notre Dame. Get doubled up by PSU. Generally get slapped around by the rest of the Big 10. But then beat tOSU so we can slip into the BCS.
I want to see Michigan limp to a 5-7 type of year.
When I need a pick me up, I watch the last play of the Appalachian State game on You Tube and get a good laugh.
by DCPSU on Aug 26, 2008 11:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's it!
Michigan gets one win all season, against Ohio State, who is then dropped 10 spots in the BCS for losing to a one-win team.
by Run Up The Score on Aug 26, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mich vs. ND
Lose to Notre Dame? How, oh how can you root for this?
Convivite Nudem!
by jtothep on Aug 26, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cause
Some of us hate Michigan just that much more than ND now.
by kmblue on Aug 26, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just rooting for everyone to get injured in that game!
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on Aug 26, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
It’s always a good day when Notre Dame loses. I don’t care who beats them.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Aug 26, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope...
both teams get a nasty case of the squirts… mid first quarter both teams go running into the tunnel grabbing the back of their pants, a la Joe Pa…
by erieisforlovers on Aug 26, 2008 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the one with the kid
“we beat michigan, we beat michigan!” awesome.
And then, on the way out, you hear some old guy “that’s the last time that happens!”…just priceless stuff.
Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries
by Kevin HD on Aug 26, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This one's prettty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vciehtQ-29k&feature=related
by ReadingRambler on Aug 26, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You missed it.
The whole game was on ESPN Classic yesterday from about 1-3pm.
I’m sorry to say, I have no life and I watched the whole thing. I never have been able to catch the full game, and I can’t tell you how much joy it brought me to see ASU flat out SHRED Michigan. I never realized how sweet a defeat it was, but App. State OWNED them that day. They were doing whatever the hell they wanted pretty much for 4 quarters. I loved every minute of it.
"A setback is just a set up for a comeback." -Drew Brees
by kajpsu on Aug 26, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep...
I got to see it in person, that loss wasn’t nearly as hard to take as many seem to think, we got flat out-played. It certainly was not a fluke.
That all said, it must be a pretty sad existence to have to live vicariously through another team, no?
Go Blue!
by ThoseWhoStay on Aug 26, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice jab....
But I assure you, I will need to live vicariously no more come (as all my fellow PSU fans scream ‘NOOOOOO’ at their computers) October 18, 2008.
Yeah, I said it!
What’s funny is, I was just about to type you a compliment on a lengthy post you wrote on another thread, and then I saw your Avatar. Lo and behold, I move to a different thread and here you are with your Ann Arbor BS.
I’m fired up now. PSU fans take heed:
(In his best William Wallace Voice)
“I see a whole army of my countrymen,
here in defiance of tyranny! You have come to fight as free men. And
free men you are! What will you do without freedom? Will you fight?”
Fight and you may die. Run and you
will live at least awhile. And dying in your bed many years from now,
would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for
one chance, just ONE chance, to come back here as young men and tell
our enemies that they may take our lives but they will never take
our freedom!"
LET’S GO STATE!!!!
"A setback is just a set up for a comeback." -Drew Brees
by kajpsu on Aug 26, 2008 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't apologize for the...
Avatar or the logic, but I’ll take it as a compliment anyways.
I cannot wait for the 18th of October, it is going to be my first game in Happy Valley (I’ve been to campus once before actually but not for a game) and from all of my experiences with Penn State fans coming to Ann Arbor, I know that I’ll be in for a great atmosphere.
Go Blue!
by ThoseWhoStay on Aug 26, 2008 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bottom Line
I tend to think that the Big 10 OOC results are pretty meaningless when it comes to PSU’s chances of playing in the MNC game. If PSU runs the table, there’s a 95% chance they play in the BCS championship. If you’re in a BCS league and you go undefeated, the odds are in your favor. I know it can happen (and has happened) that an undefeated BCS team can get shut out, but it’s not even close to likely.
Lose once and then you bring a whole mess of factors, one of which is perceived conference strength. But, hey, if your team lost a game, your argument becomes more about semantics.
That’s why I tend to root against the Big 10. My distaste for losing to these teams boils over my desire for my conference to be perceived as strong. That’s for SEC message board trolls to worry about.
by Kunk on Aug 26, 2008 12:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I see your point....
But don’t you think since the BCS is largely about POLLS, and since we know that Poll voters care about who you beat and how good they are that in the end it’s better if we play teams that have great records.
For example. If we beat an Ohio State team that has not lost a game yet with an OOC win against USC, don’t you think that can drastically effect our rankings in the Polls which factor into the BCS rankings.
That’s why I’ve always felt it’s best to root for all B10 teams. Not because I’m so in love with the B10, but because I’m selfish, and I know if the B10 looks good, that when we run the table (or not) we look that much better in the National picture. I do think it makes a difference.
"A setback is just a set up for a comeback." -Drew Brees
by kajpsu on Aug 26, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The goal for every team...
is winning a national championship. You get to that game by either going undefeated (extremely likely to get in the game) or by getting yourself in the mix of a slew of 1 or 2 loss teams (different for each situation, but likely less than 50%).
Once PSU is outside the picture for the BCS championship, I couldn’t care less what the effect of “perceived strength” does for them. Sure, it’s nice if they get a New Year’s Bowl or even an extra BCS bid, but for the fans, it don’t mean much.
Perceived strength of the B10 is only one factor to the national pollsters. Preseason ranking also plays a role. Your OOC schedule plays a role. So like I said, my dislike of the other prominent B10 teams is greater than any gain we’d get out of a tough conference. To me, the only gain is for water-cooler arguments.
by Kunk on Aug 26, 2008 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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