BLAME THIS ON THE PLAYERS!

by fugimaster24 on Sep 4, 2008 9:41 PM EDT

People are going to rip Joe Paterno for the next few days, weeks, or even months over what happened the other night. They're going to say he has lost control, lost his edge, and his ability to connect with the modern athlete.

I'd tend to say that the latter two are false. If you read any interview with a player, or a recruit, they'll tell you they have the utmost respect for Joe Paterno, and are honored to play for him. I think he can still connect with kids, and, if he didn't have an expiring contract hanging over his head, would still be a solid recruiter for that reason. Would he be like Meyer, Zook, or Tressel? Probably not, but I still think he can get the job done with the players he has, and the staff he has around him to coach 'em up.

However, I would agree with those who say he has lost control of the discipline side of things. However, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Rather than having the more friendly Joe Paterno looking over their shoulders, the players have earned, with all their snafus and legal troubles, a new, much more fearsome watch dog than Joe could ever hope to be: ESPN.

The margin for error is incredibly thin now. Every misstep the players take will be scrutinized, and played out for a national audience. Guys like Evans have so much to lose, and so little to gain by getting out of line that any bad choice he, or any of his teammates make from now on will be completely their responsibility. For the stars like Wallace and Evans, Joe Paterno can't fine them, but ESPN can single handedly brand them with a "personality flaw" label that will follow them to their first contract in the NFL. For the lesser players, their names will be forever remembered for bringing shame upon their program, their coach, and their fans. This will overshadow any accomplishments they achieve on the field. Because of what they've done to themselves, the players, from here on out, only the players will be responsible for their actions. The consequences the public and the media will dole out for bad behavior are far more frightening than anything Joe can do.

Has Joe Paterno lost control of the football team? That is debatable. But one thing is for sure: ESPN can do far more harm than Joe Paterno, or any football coach for that matter. As a player, you'd have had to have been an idiot to not realize this. Thats why I blame this on the players, and the players alone. They knew the eyes of the world were watching them, and that should have scared them a lot more than Joe Paterno ever could have.

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A voice of reason

FINALLY, a voice of reason from the mob. Unfortunately it’s already started, and said mob won’t be happy until Joe Paterno is officially gone from this University. It’s sad that no one will listen, I can almost here the “Joe Must Go” chant from here in McElwain hall…

by dawsonPSU10 on Sep 4, 2008 9:47 PM EDT 0 recs

i agree wholeheartedly

Joe agreed to be a coach, mentor and a father-figure (because we all know college is a growing experience requiring guidance), but he didn’t agree to be a babysitter and a ball-cupper. these boys need to grow up and have some responsibility for themselves, something that seems to be lacking in recent years.

For the glory

by lionalum05 on Sep 4, 2008 9:48 PM EDT 0 recs

At The End Of The Day.....

its completely inconsistent to give Paterno all the credit he has been given over the last 40 years for running the “model program” and then to give him no shit when the opposite occurs. He is either responsible for the behavior, be it good or bad, or he is not.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Sep 4, 2008 10:16 PM EDT 0 recs

Definitely

it’s a two way street, but I think he’s put out way more upstanding citizens than he has thugs. Unless charges escalate to things like rape, murder, theft, hard drugs, then I think I have the patience to let him go when he wants to go.

The Nittany Tide

by psuphiman80 on Sep 4, 2008 10:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

I certainly.......

don’t disagree with you.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Sep 4, 2008 11:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

My point was...

…that he should be out of the line of fire at this point. What can he possibly do? No one seems to have the answer to that. If the threat of national humiliation doesn’t scare these guys into making good choices, what can Joe Paterno say that will? Hes a football coach, not a deity.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Sep 4, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

Fugi.........

spoken like somebody who has no experience in Corporate America.

Incidentally, I know its for effect, but your signature implies that Paterno is in fact a deity :)

I am not saying fire him, but he is the CEO. He needs to answer for this. Its soooooo beyond a few kids being kids. Its an epidemic right now.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Sep 5, 2008 9:46 AM EDT up 0 recs

Not trying........

to be a d bag either. :)

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Sep 5, 2008 9:52 AM EDT up 0 recs

What if all the tests come back negative......

Then it is just one or two morons having a get together on a game week….not smart…..but definitely not a syndrome of a program being out of control! Dude…..by most accounts Koroma and Evans were not even there and are being drawn into this because the party and weed/residue was found in their apartment. I think the only reason AJ Wallace got a pass is because his girlfriend or roomates confirmed that he was living elsewhere (plus we need all the DBs we can get this weekend). A good CEO waits until his advisors give him all the facts before making a decision. Let’s not jump to conclusions until we have the facts. And if, God for bid, the test come back positive……how is that Paterno or the coaching staff? Believe me……these kids are drilled constantly about what substances are banned by the NCAA. Moreover, although pot is legal in Oregon it is not legal in PA or any of the states where these players are from. If their parents have not hammered it in to them to stay away from drugs….then they are to blame! AGAIN THOUGH……..let’s reserve judgment until all the facts come out.

BTW……you headed to famous for any games this year? Game is on the deuce Sat…..so proabably will watch the game with some PSU people in Midtown.

I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Sep 5, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

PIC 15......

This is respectfully submitted, so don’t take what I say as anything other than my opinion and certainly nothing personal.

I don’t give people or a group of people the benefit of the doubt when either have displayed a penchant for certain behavior. I don’t have the time or emotional cycles to disect every single element of every single situation involving my family, friends, coworkers, or favorite football team. At some point, I play the odds. I don’t think its incumbent upon myself or any other fan to sit back and wait for the facts to come in after the run this team has been on for the last few years. Its incumbent upon them, given the last couple years, to make good decisions and realize that life is all about the compounding interest of your actions so to speak. The sheer number of players in trouble is frankly astounding. There is no defending that. I’ll go 2001 on everybody and say “perception is reality” and the perception of PSU football right now is not good.

Maybe these guys would still play football for Penn State if there were only 12 people in the stands and they were never on TV but I doubt it. That means they WANT to not only play football, but want to be noticed, admired, and applauded by the fans. I, as a fan, have expectations of those I notice, admire, and applaud. This team hasn’t earned my fandom.

Another take………I am short, bald, white, and blue eyed………if 20 people like me were responsible for 9/11, I would be upset with them not the people at the airport who pull me out of line in a “random” security search. I say the same thing to the PSU football team. If Mo and Abe are pissed at guys like me for not giving them the benefit of the doubt up front, I would suggest they talk to the other jokers who have shattered the fans confidence in the teams decision making.

Having said all of that, I absolutely plan on making it over to Famous at some point in time. I used to watch Steelers games over there when I lived on La Vista. I have a pretty full weekend this weekend, so will probably watch the game at home. Let me know when you are going over one of these weekends and I’ll come by and meet the group.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Sep 5, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

Understand you apprehension with regard to Quarless....

But…..Mo and Koroma by all accounts are good kids. The have not displayed a “penchant” for the certain behavior that you discuss. Also perhaps your expectations as a fan are too high. Chris Bell was a moron and for what he did, he deserved to be kicked off the team and prosecuted. After all of the facts came out…..I am not so sure that Austin Scott did. These KIDS are in college and fights and underage drinking happen. I think the Scirotto incident was WAY over-hyped and to be honest at 21…….I probably would have been looking to beat some ass if some punk sucker punched me and pushed my girlfriend to the ground. That incident was provoked by everday students as was the incident at the hub. Although the football players involved should have walked away they are 18,19, 20 year old kids. Football players or not, young men at that age do not always make the best choices. That does not mean they are bad or have questionable charachter…..it just means they are young and have a lot of growing up to do. I think that people do not realize that the minor incidents ( and yes they are minor ) that have happened at PSU have happened at PSU for years. Now though, more consequences exist due to a zealous DA and nazi-like authorities in State College more apt to arrest someone over a fight. I agree with bucci below. JoePA is not to blame for these incidents. He can not tuck each player in before they go to bed at night. As for the character of the kids we recuruit…han…..I have yet to here factual evidence to suggest that PSU was involved in recruiting bad kids. These kids are not toting guns or stealing cars and stereos…rather they are involved in the same shit that many other college students are involved in. Fugi is right…..I have heard many people on here criticizing the coaches for not getting the highest rival starred kids. PSU recruits athletes that they feel can compete…and I am sure we have stopped recruiting kids because of potential character issues. They do not and will never recruit kids who have felony arrest records (unlike some southern schools – FSU, Miami). Maybe we all of us just need to think how it was when we were in school. How many people on this blog were in a room where someone was doing drugs or got in a fight or better yet….how many people on this blog did drugs or got into fights in college? How many of us turned into good hard-working professionals? I think you have to be realistic and accept that 18-20 year old kids make mistakes. Hopefully in this case the only mistake was having a party during the season. I for one will give them the benefit of the doubt until the test results are published!

I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Sep 5, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

Sure......

I hear what you are saying. I’m going to respond further later on. I have to read about packet fields that can be marked for Quality of Service purposes for a test I am studying for. Much more interesting than reading this blog :) tk.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Sep 5, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

I absolutely cannot believe how frequently people forget the biggest defining quality of Joe Paterno: he does NOT stand for this kind of behavior!! Forget how many incidents have transpired this year- Joe can preach and preach, but at the end of the day some college kids will be just that- kids. I don’t care who is coaching them, they are ignorant enough to make these decisions despite the circumstances and the support they have around them.

So stop blaming Joe Pa for the actions of these kids, and starting thanking Joe Pa for disciplining them unlike many other prominent NCAA coaches in the past and present.

Goodness….

by paul bucci on Sep 5, 2008 12:00 AM EDT 0 recs

Thats great but your wrong.

whether you want to agree with it or not Joe is the one responsible for the character of kids they recruit and he is also responsible for the actions of his players while they are on campus. Period.

by han_solo on Sep 5, 2008 8:48 AM EDT 0 recs

Wait

Are we trying to win football bowls or math bowls here?

I don’t mean to sound like a kid’s personality should not be part of his evaluation as a good, but I’m sure you’d be the first person on here criticizing Joe for shitty recruiting if we went 5-7 this year. Its a delicate balance. Some kids are bad kids, and I honestly believe we avoid those kind of guys, you know, the ones that play for Miami? But most kids are in the middle. They aren’t good kids, and they aren’t felons either. They make mistakes like this. Period. No matter what Joe says, and I believe he says the same things he said 40 years ago, ultimately the buck for your actions stops with you. These kids aren’t responsible. Thats all.

What Paterno does with this situation, with everyone watching, will determine whether he has lost control or not, not the actions of the players.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Sep 5, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

Well..........

according to your personal savior, we are trying to win both, not one or the other.

We are 3rd All Time in Fulmer Cup points. 3rd. That is pathetic. That is more than “boys will be boys” especially since last time I checked the other 115 schools in Div I that we are ranked ahead of have boys playing on their teams too.

Again………I am not saying Paterno is completely at fault, but I am not chalking this up to boys will be boys either. Its happening toooooo much in one place.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Sep 5, 2008 10:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

Fugi.......

I could have been less of a smart ass with my first line. Sorry about that. I had a few Pilsner Uquells last night :) Delicious beer by the way.

I woke up this morning to go to my tennis match and debated on whether to wear my PSU had. I said……ok…….don’t be that guy, where your hat.

Notre Dame fan………….“You guys have anyone not in jail that can suit up this weekend”?

Michigan State fan………“You guys going to be able to field a team this year”?

To ND fan, I said….yeah…I don’t know what’s going on up there, its pretty embarrassing. This completely disarmed him and he responded with, something to the effect of “Lord knows I didn’t smoke any dope when I was in college”. He seemed to be more annoyed with a comment by Paterno around the Scirotto incident that indicated these are aggressive high strung kids playing football and sometimes they have a hard time turning it off. I had never heard that one so I just said so.

To Michigan State fan……I said……“Hold on there Smoker……at least we aren’t dealing with cocaine here”. He laughed and then I said……..yeah I don’t know what is going on up there. It’s embarrassing. And he gave me the same response…….everybody has problems they just cover them up better.

Anyhow……whatever.

Go Lions and let’s go Paterno.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Sep 6, 2008 10:02 AM EDT up 0 recs

players

how dumb are these kids? i knew so many kids in college who smoked all the time and never got caught. its not really that hard to stay out of trouble. these idiots have a free ride and possible a lucrative pro career that they are carelessly flushing down the toilet. dudes, you can party and do whatever. watch your backs. you can be loud just know the limits.

"I've gotto go with PSU. Ill make that pick every year till I die, and eventually it's gonna happen. Hear me now."- LL Cool J

by psuaar on Sep 5, 2008 10:37 AM EDT 0 recs

joe

pa is responsible for recruiting football players who will compete, do well in school, and respect their opportunity. its like a job interview…..how many times in a job interview have you said what you think the boss wants to hear. these kids put on their best faces to get recruited and once they are here, it s up to them to act responsibly. when are they held accountable, or better yet their parents?

by farrellpsu on Sep 5, 2008 6:57 PM EDT 0 recs

I read the best line today about this situation

They’re not in trouble for having dope, they’re in trouble for being dopes (or something to that effect)

by NJ lion on Sep 5, 2008 9:09 PM EDT 0 recs

A day late and a dollar short...

…but seriously, it’s pot. Relax. Nobody would have given two shits if these kids went out and bought $200 worth of booze and gotten falling down drunk in that apartment. I understand that grass is illegal, but half of that campus would consider 1/3 of an ounce of pot almost enough to get through the weekend, so let’s not be too hypocritcal here.

"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008

by jesse. on Sep 8, 2008 11:08 AM EDT 0 recs