Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Jeremy Lin Continues Rampage, New York Wins On Road

Secondary Exposed?

Obviously the secondary was the weak link in this game.  My question is, how much of this beatdown can be attributed to the atheleticism of our corners/safeties as it can be to defensive schemes created by Tom Bradley?  All i'm hearing is how bad our safeties and corners are, and how they just cant match up physically with the USC receivers.  I'm not buying that so much.  I really think Tom Bradley deserves the blame for this loss.  I don't think Tony Davis or Lydell Sargeant should be blamed much for the debacle in the 2nd quarter, specifically because they almost never went out of Cover 3.  Sanchez kept hitting his receivers on the deep slant/post routes and just putting in between the safety and the corner ALL DAY LONG.  After seeing two touchdowns on the same type of play, isn't the smart thing understanding that no matter how good your secondary is, your soft zone cover 3 continues to be beat? Shouldn't we change up the defensive scheme to man for a few plays?  Except for a few instances, I don't think the corners were ever really given a chance to go one on one with a receiver and show what they could do.  I personally think they have the talent to have done it, but were never given a real chance.  Bradley should be taking the heat for the dissection of our secondary, not so much the players.  Am I wrong?

Thanks for the fanpost! Please do not post any content from a premium site that requires a subscription. Also, if you just want to share a link, quote, or video, please consider using fanshots instead. Thanks.

Comment 27 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

We've

probably gotten by with Cover 3 this year because of the pass rush. And we didn’t really face any high-quality passing teams this year. A lot of the slants looked like the same play that we lost to Michigan on in 2005.

by Joe 96alum on Jan 1, 2009 10:44 PM EST reply actions  

exactly what I was thinking....

PSU will probably never win a NC if Bradley takes over after JoePa. Offenses have changed 180 degrees, while his defenses have not changed 1

by bbeck223 on Jan 1, 2009 10:45 PM EST reply actions  

Look, the Cover 3 zones just don’t work against decent receivers and a good QB. They’ll pick you apart and make your secondary look like a joke. Let’s face it — I’m pretty sure we were all a bit flustered watching Iowa/USC pick apart our secondary while they continued to play 5 to 10 yards off the receivers every down.

While I think Bradley’s scheme’s were definitely part of the problem during the USC game (i.e., they’re destroying your zone — try something new), you can’t help but notice how horribly the secondary got fooled on a few of those TD passes. They simply were outright fooled and never had a shot.

So, to answer your question, I think the play calling and just the overall talent of USC’s receivers (and QB) did us in. Sanchez picked us apart because all his throws were that easy.

by smashtheguitar on Jan 1, 2009 10:57 PM EST reply actions  

But if they're playing M2M or trail coverage

they’re not looking in the backfield and don’t have to worry about being fooled by Sanchez. USC’s receivers are definitely good, but I don’t think that Cal’s or Stanford’s or any other Pac-10 cb’s are that much better than PSU’s.

by Screen Name 20 on Jan 2, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe the DBs aren’t good enough to run anything but Cover 3? I’d love to know, but I’m not an insider at FOS.

"They haven't played us yet."

by ReadingRambler on Jan 1, 2009 10:59 PM EST reply actions  

IT IS THE SCHEME

Its the scheme. I’m tired of hearing about the players not being that good. Why did Brady Quinn look like a future hall of famer against us 3 years ago and Todd Beckman against us last year! Its because we play 10 yards off the ball on EVERY play. I was watching the game and a friend of mine who is a USC fan wondered why we were making it so easy for them. The worst thing is the torched us in the first half and we came out in the second and didn’t change shit in the scheme with our DB’s. It a shame because we had the talent to win that game, but again it goes back to coaching. I remember reading earlier this season about the players even begging the coaches to let them play man more often, but obviously that didn’t happen. Its not that we don’t have the players, it’s they are playing to not give up the big play and that is a shitty excuse. We will always loss the big games to teams with a decent qb and receivers. Can anyone really say they believe that we would have beaten OSU this year if Beckman was the starter? I don’t. We make ok QB’s look good and good QB’s look great. Just look Sanchez put up career numbers against us.

by Phan4life on Jan 1, 2009 11:27 PM EST reply actions  

its a combination of things

Aside from a few games this season, the secondary relied on the DL playing lights out and never giving the QB time to make his reads. This allowed them to sit back and play center field a bit more. Obviously SC has a better line and we weren’t able to get a good 4 man rush going to pressure their QB. What I can’t understand is why we didn’t just drop 7 and give their QB some different zone looks to confuse them. We could have allowed them to run and throw the underneath stuff but I just don’t think that Sales and Hull are that good in coverage.

I think the scheme and athletes of our corners played a major part as well. The last time I can remember PSU DB’s going man and playing more physical with WRS was 2005. Of course, in the infamous UM game, they got burned playing soft on a slant but overall, those DB’s I think were much more talented than what we’ve had.

I think that Davis and Wallace were the most capable at going man to man with WRs but seldom allowed to.

by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 1, 2009 11:33 PM EST reply actions  

My kids kept asking: "Why is Penn State letting them catch the ball?"

If an 11-year old and 9-year old can see it, couldn’t the coaches? Try something different. Change. Adapt. Don’t let them keep catching the damn ball! This is the most frustrating thing about Penn State football – our D against a good passing QB. Ugh, don’t get me started…

by NJ lion on Jan 2, 2009 9:07 AM EST reply actions  

AJ and King

Came to PSU as SHUTDOWN corners out of high school, and over the past few years we haven’t seen their real potential. Whether it was injury or Joe’s dog house. We take this talented corners and stick them in a cover 3 all day long, then when they go back to man they get burned (King last year). I really think Scrap needs to just let the corners play. Not saying the outcome would be any different but run a nickle with AJ in there and PRESS their wideouts. Big receivers (a la Randy Moss) hate getting jammed and I bet it would be the same thing with USC’s big boys, but we sat back in that zone and well….

by cmdpsu15 on Jan 2, 2009 9:07 AM EST reply actions  

The Theory

Is that the offense will make a mistake by the time they get into the end zone. Penalties, interceptions, fumbles, or a sack by the DL. That works against poor offenses, but not against elite teams.

When you’re getting picked apart though, it does seem silly that the solution is “keep hoping they will make a mistake” rather than “come up with a scheme that can stop them”.

I think this is every bit JoePa’s theory as it is Scrap’s. Obviously he’s had plenty of undefeated seasons, so has beaten elite teams in the past. I think back to 1986 and wonder how we shut down Testaverde (5 INT’s). I watched that game, but I’m not old enough to have understood defensive coverages back at that time.

by The Man with One Black Shoe on Jan 2, 2009 9:39 AM EST reply actions  

1987 Fiesta Bowl was the greatest example of bend but don't break ever

They got into Jimmy Johnson and Vinnie Testaverde’s heads more than anything. They dropped back 7 – 8 men. When Miami completed passes, the DBs pounded the Miami WRs and made them fear getting hit, so they started dropping balls. A slippery field did not hurt either. Miami was still determined to throw the ball because that was their kind of football.

Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.

by WFY on Jan 2, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Bend but don't suck

sucked yesterday.

Defensive scheme = huge, catastrophic FAIL.

I bleed Blue and White.

by Horse N Buggy on Jan 2, 2009 10:03 AM EST reply actions  

i agree

i am constantly frusterated by the cover 3. we have a good and fast secondary…they can do man more. yes, the cover works inside the big10 where it is a primarily run offense, but when we start playing teams that can pass, we need to do man more.

i also think we should have blitzed more often. i saw very few of real attempts. it is crazy.

all in all it was very frusterating…but i’m proud of our guys for not giving up.

by amandakt on Jan 2, 2009 10:22 AM EST reply actions  

Yes

you are so right. When the front can’t get to the QB, and the D backs are getting burnt, the wise man will blitz the hell out of them.

No blitz yesterday, not one.

What a weird game. They pretended to play offense, we pretended to play defense.

by dr kill on Jan 2, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

also...

…i was reading i think the nytimes (b/c i refuse to go to espn today) and some USC player said all we did was blitz yesterday. i was wondering if he and i were watching the same game…

Sanchez poked holes in the zone all day, and when Penn State turned to a rare tactic — blitzing — he produced several big plays.

"They blitzed a lot more than they have, but we were prepared for it," said U.S.C.’s offensive coordinator, Steve Sarkisian, who is leaving to become the head coach at Washington. "We wanted to block them up and throw it down the field."

by amandakt on Jan 2, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

We blizted on one of the TD's....

Bowman got picked off and we gave one up

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member

by TheMightyErik on Jan 3, 2009 6:25 AM EST up reply actions  

years

This has been going on for years. The cover 3 has lost us some big games. How could they not change anything defensivley in that 2nd Quarter? do something different for gods sake. Give the kids a chance.

No matter the defense, Scirotto and Rubin were not good in coverage all year. Josh Hull still stinks and we better not see him on the field next year.

"I've gotto go with PSU. Ill make that pick every year till I die, and eventually it's gonna happen. Hear me now."- LL Cool J

by psuaar on Jan 2, 2009 11:14 AM EST reply actions  

Josh Hull's play yesterday...

I didn’t follow Hull play by play but I do know Bowman made quite a few plays and missed on a couple but he looked like he had a good game to me. At the end of the game the SC fan asked me who #43 was and I told him Josh Hull and he said ‘that kid is an animal.’ I said we get one of two kinds of games out of him and I wasn’t really sure which he had today and thanked him and left a bit later. So I guess that guy saw him do something I didn’t yesterday but it is hard to really focus on him when Sanchez is chucking the damn ball all over the field victimizing our back 4.

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member

by TheMightyErik on Jan 2, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

My Hull perspective

We got both versions of Hull in each half. First half was bad Hull – being eaten up by linemen, being a step behind on run plays, and being well out-played by the TE he was asked to cover. It was really one of the very few times all season I called for his head.

Then halftime came and went. And then the good Hull showed up. (I think Zug promised to give one of his song girls to Hull for the night if he stepped up his play.) Hull was in better position, and even started making hits/tackles behind the line of scrimmage.

Maybe not the best player, but seeing him as a stop-gap instead of a stud, he played his role well. A walk-on who was thrust into the lineup as a bridge between injuries and inexperience – he did as well as I could have hoped.

by IcersGuy on Jan 2, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for a solid perspective on it, Icersguy

I can’t bring myself to watch the game on DVR yet and I figured he must have done ok but not bad enough to have him killed as I have seen people do to him in here. Good for him and I hope he fills in for some of our guys well next year.

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member

by TheMightyErik on Jan 2, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Strange mix

I’ve always felt that this was the middle ground for the defense. The front 7 have always been a strong point for the Lions, so the secondary didn’t have to be the best players. And lets face it – they haven’t always been the best athletes back there. Not horrible, but by no means have we had All-Americans lined up year after year.

At the same time, I don’t think they’re so bad that we need to protect them in this infamous 7-yard cushion, cover-3 system. There has to be a happy medium somewhere.

by IcersGuy on Jan 2, 2009 3:10 PM EST reply actions  

My one question

After the game, my cousin and I were talking about some of the great players PSU had over the last couple years; MikeRob, LJ, Hunt, Kinlaw, Royster, trio of receivers, AQ, Ohrn, Levi Brown, Maybin, Hayes, Odrick, Alford, Hali, Lee, Poz, Conner, Bowman, etc. When we realized that we were stacked in certain areas, i.e. DLine, RB and one area wasn’t represented, the defensive secondary. So my question is, who actually coaches the secondary? Do they have a one-on-one coach like Larry Sr. or Vanderlinden for the line and linebackers, or are they just expected to go out and make plays?

by WPIALkid22 on Jan 2, 2009 4:43 PM EST reply actions  

Combo

TB takes the corners and Kermit Buggs has the safeties. Brian Norwood had been the safeties coach for about 7 years prior to his move to Baylor at the end of last season.

by IcersGuy on Jan 2, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Norwood

That’s right, forgot about him. I’m really thinking we got to get a new coach in this area. I think extra coaching would definitely help

by WPIALkid22 on Jan 2, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Pass rush was the real problem

PSU’s scheme relies upon a good pass rush to limit the time for the QB to read the zone. If the pass rush doesn’t get there, the zone gets destroyed. The scheme is fine as long as the foundation it is built upon is sturdy. The d-line just wasn’t up to it.

Additionally, only Bowman was really getting a good push on his blitzes. Sending a couple of guys on a blitz and not getting anywhere only leaves the zone with huge holes.

The other problem comes down to the players. Scirotto, Rubin and Astorino are not good cover safeties. On at least two of the TD passes the corners released their receivers to the second level and the safeties inexplicably had stepped up. That’s what lost the game at Iowa and USC knew how to exploit it. I was also perplexed by how we’d often end up with two linebackers dropping back into to coverage literally yards apart.

The BBDS is good at stuffing the run. People don’t acknowledge that fact when discussing its weaknesses. Beyond that it comes down to getting a good pass rush. This is true at any level. NFL defenses, regardless of scheme, rely on a pass rush to force quick reads. Defense begins and ends at the d-line.

by gcdyersb on Jan 2, 2009 5:47 PM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about the Penn State Nittany Lions.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Niceshoes_small
I know I said I only wanted to say this once...
Crystal_ball_small
Untarnished
Small
Ignorance Still Reigns...And I'm Not Letting It Pass
Joe_small
Sanctimonious Hypocrites Can't Diminish the Warmth for Joe Paterno
Psukoolaid_small
BSD Donations to THON in Joe’s Memory.

Recent FanPosts

Tipoffbasketball_t_small
2013 SF Brandon Austin commits to Penn State
Jessedotsmom_small
Food for Thursday: The Valentine's Day Edition.
Lion2_small
Penn State – the 2nd private school in the B1G?
Hugh_griffith_small
My Theory on Space, Time, Imaginary Numbers and Super Bowl Rings.
Kool-aid-man__small
Where's the love for Sukay?
Tom_mairs_photo_small
BoT Nominee: Ron Nervitt '62 Eng
Img110_small
BSD Want Ads - Prominent Penn State Blog Seeks Additional Recruiting Analyst
Joe_legs_small
question about severance for coaches
Small
Poem for JoePa

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SHOP THE BLACK SHOE DIARIES STORE

Gameday Depot University Apparel


Managers

Blog_gang_sign_small Chris Grovich

Powers1_small Kevin Powers

Editors

Zn_avatar_small Mike Pettigano

Img110_small Jeff Junstrom

Authors

Iron_armor_small Galen

New4_good_small Nick Blonde

Turd_ferguson_psu_small Tim Aydin

On_the_way_to_grad_small Kyle_Martin

N53100510_31463067_5584_small Adam Collyer

Aquateen_vol1_mastershake_1__small Ben Jones

Penn_state_mascot_small Peter Gray

Baller_small Eric Gibson