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The Lost Art of the Form Tackle

In the wake of Ryan Clark's latest "questionable" big hit, has the art of the form tackle been lost?

It seems more and more safetys and linebackers are trying to go for the shoulder/crown of the helmet big blow a la Ryan Clark or Taylor Mays.  Where are the hits that Poz or Ray Lew make by squaring up a Wideout or a Running Back coming through the hole?

I tried to get into a conversation with a friend of mine about it and just kept rambling on about its legal, its part of the game, you're still bitter about Welker getting lit up (I am a Pats fan and thought that hit was utter BS), etc...  Yet more people I talk to that aren't a bias homer seem to think that either the NCAA or NFL needs to start cracking down on the use of the crown of the helmet as first line to hit a player.  We saw Taylor Mays get 15 for the helmet to helmet hit he put on Norwood, yet Ryan Clark does something similar and it's "Legal?"  I don't remember Norwook being a defenseless receiver, he was in the process of making a catch (which should have been reviewed and called a catch). 

Thoughts...

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Defense

Defense in general is becoming a lost art. It seems like whenever a coaching vacancy comes up these days the top prospects to fill them are all offensive coordinators or coaches that had a primarily offensive background. The offensive minds are dominating the game today. They take their best athletes and put them on offense. Then they take the kid that can’t catch and put him on defense. As a result these head coaches aren’t paying as much attention to the defense and leaving it up to the assistant coaches to teach them the fundamentals.

I think tackling is definitely becoming a lost art. It’s one thing when you see head hunting safeties laying into a receiver that isn’t looking. It’s another when you see Georgia linebackers trying to bring down Javon Ringer by leaving their feet and trying to throw a shoulder into him. Or Oklahoma corners just trying to grab a WR’s jersey and hang on for dear life.

by BSD on Jan 22, 2009 5:05 PM EST reply actions  

Good Point Mike

I completely forgot about everyone using the “Horse Collar” tackle like its perfect form. I cringe anytime I see a back for WR getting yanked down from behind via the collar.

by cmdpsu15 on Jan 22, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Must

be a Raisen fan eh? Ray Lewis should be in prison

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

by wookieeman on Jan 23, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually

if you read the initial post you will see I’m a Pats fan. I just mention Ray Lew because although most believe he should be in jail, put that aside, hes a damn good linebacker, and very fundamentally sound.

by cmdpsu15 on Jan 23, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

it certainly wasn't a lost art for the following:

Poz
Connor
Lee

all hail the white linebacker!!

"And the bottom line is that my love for you guys is really the deciding factor. I'm going to stay here and coach at Penn State University." - Larry Johnson, Sr.

by Stately NOVA Lion on Jan 23, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that the guys who do non-form tackles do not realize they can paralyze themselves going head first. The reason a form tackle is what it is, is so you don’t hurt yourself. Hitting head on can really hurt your spine, which we all know is not exactly something you’d want to dick around with.

by GreatScawt on Jan 22, 2009 5:09 PM EST reply actions  

The National Championship game

I forget the player, but I remember in the National Championship game some Florida safety deliberately throwing his head into the jaw of an Oklahoma WR along the sideline. I thought it was one of the dirtiest plays I’ve ever seen, but the announcers applauded it like it was a great hit. The NCAA should really consider some kind of punishment for kids who play like that. You can’t fine them, but you can suspend them a game or two. If the NCAA doesn’t want to do it then the conferences should step up and do it. I feel bad for the kid who has to take an exam on Monday when his head is still pounding from the concussion he suffered on Saturday.

by BSD on Jan 22, 2009 5:09 PM EST reply actions  

Fine the school

Fine the program’s scholarship fund. Helmet to helmet? $25000. Just like the NFL. Let’s see how many kids take those cheap shots if their scholarship dries up because of it. I promise you coaches will stress form tackling.

And you are absolutely correct, that hit on the Ok player was the dirtiest hit I’ve ever seen (aside from Marcus Vick’s stomp). The WR was defensless, eyes on the ball, and took a helmet to helmet before the ball ever reached his hands (the ball hit him as he was getting hit, but contact came first I thought). The announcers in that game didn’t even know what down it was half the time, but they sure as hell loved that hit — that should tell you a little bit about where NCAAF is headed.

"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.

by millzners on Jan 22, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Even an ejection would serve the purpose

How pissed would Mays (or that the Florida db – Major Wright) if they had been ejected after their respective hits. It wouldn’t be hard. And both would have been justified. As long as they don’t get too liberal with the rule and start throwing guys out for sacking a qb and lovetapping their helmets, this rule would be effective. Make it a 4 quarter suspension, starting immediately, to prevent a guy from not caring if he kills somebody with 45 seconds left in a game.

by blogue20 on Jan 23, 2009 8:49 AM EST up reply actions  

There’s a really fine line between a good hit that inadvertently hurts someone, and a dirty hit that does. I don’t want the game to turn into NFL Blitz or whatever that terrible fusion of Mortal Kombat and Madden was. You mention shoulder and crown of helmet hits. I think shoulder hits are great. Crown of the helmet hits are terrible.

Most everyone saw that hit Ryan Clark put on McGahee, and pretty much everyone, from the officials, to the league that I would guarantee reviewed it, thought it was a clean hit. When two players are flying at each other like that, people are obviously going to get hurt from time to time. (Addendum – not a Steelers fan). A cornerback or safety isn’t going to be able to stand up a running back with the ease of a linebacker.

I also saw the hit on the Oklahoma receiver in the Championship Game. I still can’t believe that a penalty wasn’t called on either the hit, or the asshole Florida players standing on the sideline basically taunting the player that was just illegally blindsided. The Mays hit on Norwood also falls into this category. I’m just happy that Norwood wasn’t hurt too badly by it. It certainly falls into the category of cheap shots I’ve seen. Not only are these cheap shots… they are just stupid for the tackler, and a great way to end up in a wheelchair.

Finally… with regards to the NCAA… fine the school and sit the player for a game or two. If a player gets a misconduct penalty in hockey, especially for an intent to injure penalty, they have to sit a game or two. There’s no reason that can’t happen in football.

Really, finally, I’m glad everyone agrees the announcing for the NC game was the most wretched thing ever. Maybe Bryant Gumble wasn’t available.

by shadowfax on Jan 22, 2009 5:32 PM EST reply actions  

Helmet to helmet

Wasn’t the only reason there was helmet-to-helmet contact on the McGahee hit because he tucked his head forward while Clark was in the air? I thought Clark went shoulder first for McGahee’s chest, and McGahee’s reaction to getting decked caused the majority of the problems from the hit.

by The Mess on Jan 22, 2009 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

The Mays hit and Clark hit weren’t even close to the same. Mays tried to kill Norwood and left his feet to go straight for the head, Clark keeps his feet planted and puts a perfectly clean yet brutal (intending to put a brutal hit on someone is legal, this IS football) hit on McGahee and everybody goes nuts. If McGahee gets up and shakes off the hit and goes back to the huddle, nobody even makes a comment about it. If the NFL doesn’t even consider fining him, that says something. Ugh.

by blogue20 on Jan 23, 2009 8:38 AM EST up reply actions  

didn't ray lewis

break Mendenhall’s shoulder with a form tackle?

by queler on Jan 22, 2009 6:20 PM EST reply actions  

Furthermore

Didn’t Ray Lewis stab a bitch?

Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.

by 06Lion on Jan 22, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

That's my point exactly

You can pound a guy with a form tackle.

by cmdpsu15 on Jan 22, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

but Ryan Clark’s tackle was legal because he led with his shoulder. Although he may have hit helmet to helmet, it was because McGahee dropped down right before the hit was delivered.

Either way, I’m not a big fan of this new trend that safeties and d-backs have started to utilize, which is the “flying torpedo” approach to tackling. Good receivers break those tackles. Just look at Larry Fitz’s touchdown against the Eagles. Dawkins tried to fly at him at the goal line and Fitz just bounced right off him and scored.

http://slovelace.blogspot.com - where journalism goes to die

by Deezy24 on Jan 22, 2009 9:32 PM EST reply actions  

Flying torpedo

In hockey if you leave your feet to check a guy it’s a penalty. Should be no different in football. If you leave your feet to hit a guy head on past the line of scrimmage and between the hash marks it’s a penalty.

by BSD on Jan 22, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

This could work, however the goal-line HB dive play might cause problems b/c the safeties and LB’s usually dive over the pile to meet the HB. I love that play.

I still think regardless of any penalties on the field or lack there of, just like in the NFL, the tape should be reviewed and the school fined for intentional helmet-to helmet. That way the rules don’t have to change, the players just realize that even if the refs miss the call they can still get in trouble.

"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.

by millzners on Jan 23, 2009 8:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Also legal because it wasn't a defenseless receiver. . .

Or so they said in the broadcast. MaGahee fumbled the ball, meaning he had already caught the ball and was moving upfield. Had it been ruled an incomplete pass, he could’ve been a defenseless receiver and it would’ve been a 15-yarder I think.

by The IC Lion on Jan 23, 2009 8:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Magahee looked at Clark

coming and clearly reacted to his arrival, while at the same time procedding towards the collision…Magahee took on the defender and added to the violence that insued…that is a clean open field hit…if it wasn’t the NFL would have fined Clark…

Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno

by carolinaeasy on Jan 23, 2009 8:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Spot on...

in your assessment. It is wrong to assume guilt based on the result of the collision. If McGahee wouldn’t have been hurt, I don’t think this hit would have really stuck out in everyone’s minds. If you look at any linebacker’s helmet after a game you will see a million scuffs and scratches from helmets of the opposing team, but that doesn’t mean he was guilty of a million illegal hits. Helmet to helmet happens, you just can’t lead with the head. It’s dangerous for both parties.

by jimbo2psu on Jan 27, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Form tackling = not sexy

I guess if you want to be known as a big hitter, you don’t form tackle. Yeah, you might miss tackles here and there, more than the form tackler, but all you need is several big hits to make the highlight reel, then you can tell your agent to SHOW ME THE $$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!

God, I’m cynical.

by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 23, 2009 1:52 AM EST reply actions  

Ray Lewis

Makes a ton of Big Hits, yet he’s noted for being a solid Form Tackler. Just ask Mendenhall.

by cmdpsu15 on Jan 23, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

He's one of the best.

Put aside the fact that he did kill a man, he’s a damn good linebacker.

by cmdpsu15 on Jan 23, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Hold on

He didn’t kill anyone. A member of his posse killed someone, and he took part in the cover up. Then with some arm twisting he eventually did the right thing and testified against his friend. Let’s be fair.

by BSD on Jan 23, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry Mike

I was always under the impression that he actually did the dirty work.

by cmdpsu15 on Jan 23, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope

He was never accused of murder. Just taking part in the coverup.

by BSD on Jan 24, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

How about we just leave it the way it is...

Mike, you complain about the loss of defensive fundamentals in your post at the top of this page, and blame it on the rise of the offensive jugernauts we see today. Football is evolving on us again just like it did back in the 1980s when the west coast forced changes in the way teams play football. Now we see teams that throw the football 40-50 times a game and literally play basketball on turf. The defenses today are getting shredded…one way to slow all this passing down? To knock the living daylights out of a reciever…now I understand and agree with the defenseless reciever part…Norwood was not looking when that hit took place and the ball was hardly in his hands at that point…but the Clark hit was clearly a great play by the defender and a RB looking to lower his shoulder and get body lean… The only way I see football surviving in the current form is if defeneders continue to punish recievers and force them to think about the catches they are making…otherwise in 20 years football will be a glorified ultmate frisbee match…

Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno

by carolinaeasy on Jan 23, 2009 8:41 AM EST reply actions  

also has anyone given any thought to the evolution of the positions...

if football is going to be played wide open with large areas of turf being covered by fewer defenders, the hits are going to become more vicious because of the need for defenders to be running at full speed to get to the ball carrier…you wouldn’t see as many of these hits in a wishbone offense because of the lack of open field space…but with the new spread concepts defenders are on an island and are going to be running full speed and SHOULD use their bodies as torpedos…

Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno

by carolinaeasy on Jan 23, 2009 8:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the difference

is that in a lot of these brutal, likely illegal hits, the offensive player is often coming towards the defender (or sometimes is leaping into the air to make a catch) when the defender launches himself “like a torpedo” head first into them. Those aren’t situations where full speed ahead is necessarily warranted, and leaving your feet and tucking your head like that don’t seem very necessary.

Now of course it is different if a guy is running diagonally to you and your only chance to even make contact is to dive, but those aren’t usually plays that put the players at risk for these injuries.

by The JuggerNitt on Jan 23, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I as a coach don't see a problem with hitting like that...

as long as you don’t lead with the helmet you are fine…it is the only realistic counter to the spread offense…don’t lead with your head, and don’t hit in the head…If you want to leave your feet as a defender to hit a player with the ball in their hands go for it…next time the guy will think twice about jumping for a ball…it is no different than blasting a reciever who comes across the middle to make a catch…

Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno

by carolinaeasy on Jan 23, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I just read your post

You are right on. I ball carrier on the goal line launches himself over the pile. How is that any different than a tackle launching himself. A ballcarrier exposes himself to fumbles and, worse yet, injuries. Similarly, a tackler makes himself vulnerable to missing a tackle and, similarlymm, to injuries. This whole idea that a receiver is defensless is just crazy. How about Limas Sweed’s block? That’s heralded as a nice block (which it was), but he, too, lowered his head. How many times has hines Ward earholed somebody? What about teh block on Rivers? Those were all part of the game, much like the Clark hit was.

by Spats on Jan 23, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

If you watch old footgae, especially 1960’s and 1970’s footage, there wasn’t a whole lot of “form tackling”. When you factor in the fact that guys today are bigger and faster, and the game is played faster than it was back then, you end up with some of the violent collisions you see today. If you’re a safety, you’re trying to run through a guy and separate him from the ball. You’re not going to see a lot of Ray Lewis, or even Poz, hits where he isn’t squared up because he’s typically meeting the guy in the hole. As a safety, you gotta bring some wood to seaparate the receiver from the ball – Kim Herring comes to mind. And Scirotto did it against Tennessee in the Outback Bowl in 2006. This whole idea that a receiver is “defenseless” is bullshit. If a guys doesn’t bring his arms on a tackle, and the receiver bounces off, shame on the would be tackler. If he takes him out and the hit appears vicious, too bad. It’s part of the friggin’ game! Every guy out there knows it.

I also disagree with the notion that the best athletes are on offense. The fact that defenses are so much faster and more dominant, despite rule changes intended to handcuuff them, demonstrates the shift in athletes from offense to defense. Hell, Paterno could be considered a pioneer in taking offensive players and making them linebackers.

by Spats on Jan 23, 2009 8:41 AM EST reply actions  

ESPN Awfulness

I think that the advent of the individual over the team has a lot to do with the demise of form tackling. I look at the way that ESPN glorifies the brutal hits with their "Top Ten Plays" and that horrible segment "Jacked UP!" I’m not sure if they do that stupid thing anymore, but whatever. I think that younger kids view these clips and want to see themselves on Monday Night Countdown or SportsCenter, thus leading them to think more of a highlight-reel tackle than a Concrete Charlie old-school leg-wrapper. More often than not, it seems that, aside from the possibility of a severe injury occurring, they have a greater chance of whiffing on the ball carrier and allowing the play to continue. These kids are trying to make a name for themselves and enhance their marketability and they think that there is no better way to do this than having their face splattered all over tWWL. So you can thank ESPN for ruining yet another aspect of sport.

by Bob Sacamano on Jan 23, 2009 9:04 AM EST reply actions  

I believe

the Jacked Up segment is off of Monday Night countdown.

by cmdpsu15 on Jan 23, 2009 9:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Jacked Up

was removed after “suggestion” from the NFL, believe it or not

by blogue20 on Jan 23, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Now it's called "Juiced Up"

The segment “Syringe in the Buttocks” was also removed. It showed botched plays.

by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 23, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait a minute

I love Chuck Bednarik, but his hit on Gifford was anything but a form tackle. He went up high and practically took his head off. That play has been immortalized, but guys like Mays and Clark are being brutalized in this post. Those hits are part of the game. You honestly think players are thinking about enhancing their marketability when they’re about to make a hit? You’ve gotta’ be kidding me! You run through the carrier. I’ll admit that a lot of guys don’t bring their arms, but that’s nothing new. So is a leg-wrapper that blows out a guy’s knee more or less damaging than a hit that results in a concussion? And keep in mind, a guy can form somebody up and if he explodes through and wraps up, and sees what he’s tackling, the crown of his helmet can still end up on a ball carriers chin. It’s a violent game. It always has been. The players understand that.

by Spats on Jan 23, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

This may be the best discussion in a while

How many times have we seen a back or receiver hurdle a tackler this year. This comes from the “poor form” tackling. The defender is coming in hard and at the last instant lowers his head, closes his eyes and tries to torpedo the ball carrier. If he is too early and too low, the ball carrier jumps right over him. So, the top guys know they have to come in higher, thus bringing in the helmet to helmet potential. And it started in the 60’s-70’s with Jack Tatum and Ronnie Lott and guys like that. We forget about those days when they used the “clothes line” tackle. Dick Butkus, Sam Huff and some of those nuts whould “take a runners head off”. (It was actually a little funny to see a runner come through the hole and all at once his lower body kept going but his head and helmet were still five yards behind.) But it was dangerous, so they outlawed that. Of course, back then we didn’t have linebackers and 235 pound safeties who ran 4.4, 40’s and benched 500 lbs.

by PaJoe on Jan 23, 2009 9:34 AM EST reply actions  

that is probably another drawback of the "poor form" defense

since it is also poor form for an RB or WR to hurdle a tackler. You completely expose yourself, and lose any control of your direction for the next second, meanwhile another guy is coming in to torpedo you, spinning you like a rag doll in the air as you come down on your head, and the ball pops loose. Sure, hurdling a guy will make a highlight reel, but unless it was one of those “leaping over a guy who is practically on the ground” things, I usually cringe when I see such plays.

by The JuggerNitt on Jan 23, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I used Clark

more because his hit was fairly fresh, and he seems to have a history of doing this. He was also quoted in AOL Fanhouse yesterday saying he had a little headache after the hit and that’s “normal” after a game for him. I don’t know about “normal.” He’s probably doing some serious brain damage, yet all he cares about are the big hits… Wow what a NFL we’ve come to see.

by cmdpsu15 on Jan 23, 2009 9:40 AM EST reply actions  

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