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Nitt Picks Is Officially Lame

And So Is The Schedule.  The school released the official 2009 football schedule, listed here in the fanposts.  We've known the potential lineup for a while now, but the hold-up of the official release was an exciting notion because of the rumor that Penn State was pursuing a replacement for Eastern Illinois, and "an ACC team [was] a possibility".

Well, now it's not really a possibility.  For those of you asking, the Oregon State change happened in the early part December, 2007.  The official release means no one took them up on their offer, whatever it was they were offering.

My initial reaction is of course argg, but with a second to take it in the two things to consider here:

  1. The job of the athletic director is not to help the football team win mythical national championships, but rather to ensure all athletes stay safe, represent the school well, and, most importantly, stay funded.  It's unfair and ridiculous that Penn State required it's football team to play 7.5 home games per a year to fund the AD, but they spend what they spend and so it is what it is. 
  2. Syracuse really screwed us.

I can say that last part because that game was scheduled in the summer of 2002.  Cuse's record in 2001?  10-3 with a bowl win.  They were suppose to be this year's Oregon State, but things obviously changed.

Star-divide

So Curley quickly scrambled the last couple of weeks to find a sucker willing to take a bad deal that would add some name brand flavor to the 2009 schedule; no one bit.  Now we have to deal with it.

What it means, then, is that Penn State needs the rest of the conference to come up big time in out of conference games to avoid a major demerit in SOS that will perpetually be attached to any discussion about Penn State's record.  Some of those game:

Missouri vs. Illinois (Sept 5)
USC @ Ohio State (Sept 12)
Purdue @ Oregon (Sept 12)
California @ Minnesota (Sept 19)
Arizona @ Iowa (Sept 19)

So it's something, but I'm not holding my breath or anything.

The Big Ten Is Overrated, But With A Twist!  A couple of clips from Bracketology 101's latest projections:

Conference Breakdown
Big East (9), ACC (7), Big Ten (7), Big XII (5), Pac-10 (5), SEC (4), A-10 (2), MWC (2), WCC (2)

[...]

Last Four In

Wisconsin, BYU, USC, LSU
Last Four Out
Penn State, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Boston College

Since I like things in charts (and an example of how to make stats say what you want):

Conference Teams In
% of Teams In
Big Ten 7 64%
ACC 7 58%
Big East 9 56%
Pac-10 5 50%
Big XII 5 42%
SEC 4 33%

You see what I did there?  I called the Big Ten the best (deepest?) conference in the country. 

The Big Lead scoffs in our general direction, though, adding along the way: "Forget Penn State" and their chances of dancing. NQTC says not so fast my friend, and points us to Sparty and Friends, who break down each argument and conclude with this:

So, who will be the Big 10 participants in March?

1. Michigan State
2. Illinois
3. Purdue
4. Minnesota
5. Penn State
6. Michigan

but again, don’t go to sleep on Wisconsin.

We love our friend over at The Big Lead, but his Big 10 bashing is getting a little too frequent. Why don’t you take some time and look at the crap that is south of Mason Dixon line (SEC), and west of the Mississippi (Big 12 and Pac 10) before you bash the conference that has played as good as basketball as anyone else in the country.

(And while I'm linking everyone, h/t to mgoblog for pimping NQTC in mgo.licio.us)

Where Are They Now, Also With A Twist!  The Philadelphia Daily News ran an interesting story as part of the run up to the Super Bowl about former Penn State DT Scott Paxson.  For those of you who don't remember, he was looking at being selected in the late round of the 2006 draft after two years of starting for Paterno.  That is, until this happened:

Then, 7 weeks before the draft, he was blindsided by the justice system.

The Centre County District Attorney's office filed sexual-assault charges against him for an alleged date-rape incident 14 months earlier with a Penn State coed. Paxson admitted he had sex with the woman, but insisted it was consensual. The charges were dropped 6 months later, after Paxson agreed to plead no-contest to disorderly conduct.

All of the calls Paxson was getting from NFL teams went promptly silent, and he had to settle for being picked up undrafted and working his way up the Steelers' scout team. 

As for the prosecutor in his case (Austin Scott's as well, FWIW), assistant DA Lance Marshall, how come I never heard about this?

...DA Lance Marshall, resigned Dec. 30 after it was revealed he was being investigated by the state Attorney General's Office after allegations were made that he had improper contact with a victim of domestic violence in a case he was assigned to prosecute. Marshall allegedly sent the woman more than 100 sexually explicit text messages on his county-issued cell phone.

So make your own jokes here.  As for Paxson:

"Bitter? Yeah," he said. "But more to the extent that I just don't know how that guy was able to sleep at night . . . I almost want to have lunch with him - maybe from across the table so I don't strangle him - and find out why he did that to me."

Don't worry Scott, I'm sure Outside The Lines has the episode already in production.

In scores of other games...BHGP looks at an attendance problem, sound familiar?...The Daily Gopher wants to know what Lisa Saulters did to Billie Gillispie...a Michigan grad writes a novel set in State College because of Penn State's "mystique".

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Darn it...

Another year and no penn state games for me….I hate the south….Alabama in 2010 cannot come quick enough!

Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno

by carolinaeasy on Jan 30, 2009 9:41 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

That will be an interesting ticket

I’m not sure how many PSU fans are in ’Bama, but I suspect ESPN will promote the crap out of that game, especially if Paterno is still around.

BSD

by Kevin HD on Jan 30, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ESPN

I was about to make a comment about “why would ESPN hype a game on CBS” assuming that CBS would pick up the game at Bama (since they have first shot at SEC home games). Then I realized that the game at Bama is in week #2 and thus would end up on ESPN — CBS doesn’t carry college football in weeks #1-2 because they are carrying the (tennis) US Open and all SEC home games those weeks would fall to the ESPN family.

by Laaaaazzz on Jan 30, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention the ESS EEE SEE deal with tWWL

Would that have any effect on this game, as in who gets the rights?

by Screen Name 20 on Jan 30, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not really

The new deal between the SEC and ESPN (starting with the 2009 season) only affects the third tier games. What was previously available by distribution by Raycom sports will now be carried on ESPN Plus, ESPNU or ESPN360.

The deal for the first and second tier games — CBS and ESPN/ESPN2 is essentially unchanged from the previous TV deal.

A game between PSU and Alabama would obivously be a first or second tier game and would not fall below the CBS/ESPN/ESPN2 level of broadcast under either deal.

by Laaaaazzz on Jan 30, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Anything more...

than a 1 loss regular season is far below expectations, 3 loss = colossal failure, regular season losses > 3 = armageddon.

by platnumkid on Jan 30, 2009 9:52 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

And it's not just a 1 loss limit.

Most of these games can’t even be competitive without drawing a lot of criticism. It’s kind of sad.

BSD

by Kevin HD on Jan 30, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I could see 3 losses

Non-con PSU should easily run the table. But the O-line must be rebuilt and there are significant holes to fill in the secondary and D-line. Then there are the wide receivers. This last year basically everyone returned, and it was a 1 loss regular season. Even with an easier schedule, it’s hard to see PSU bettering 1 loss with so many more question marks on the roster.

The Big Ten is not going to be a cake walk. I’ll be disappointed with 3 or 4 conference losses, but it’s hard to have the expectation of 1 or even 2 losses until I see what the new guys will do. It’ll be really hard to fill the shoes of Shipley, Maybin, Williams, Butler and Norwood.

by gcdyersb on Jan 30, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have been mulling the following idea for a few days, but did not want to share it because I did not know if I could accurately put it into a clear and understandable fanpost. But with all of the talk about the schedule I feel as if it would fit into the discussion easily. Basically what I have been thinking about is the long term effects of the 2005 season and what they are doing for the program now. The basic premise to this thought, is that the team is back to the point where it can compete every single year, and that 2008s might be a regular occurance, much like the great run of the 70s and 80s. Why is this possible? Consider the following…

The program has reached a point of sustainability. There is little doubt about the PSU brand right now. Everyone is certain of what the program is about, and what you can expect at PSU. The white out is a big part of this. It has become a national symbol of the passion Penn Staters have for their team. When I see top high school players at combines and other football events here in South Carolina, I always ask them if they have considered PSU, the first thing many of them say is something along the lines of “Man that white out would be awesome to play in front of”. It is quickly becoming the defining image of the PSU brand. We have 05 to thank for this.
Recruiting has reached a level of consistancy and excellence. We may not have a top 15 class every year, but PSU has had very little trouble getting quality players to fit nicely into the program. Much of this is related to the recent success of the team, namely 05. We have enjoyed the resurgance in recruiting the past couple of years, and now are seeing the end results. I ask you to consider, while the class of 08 is seen as a good class, the next several classes where nearly as good. Should we expect a large drop off in on field performance or not? I don’t think we will because of the level of athletes waiting in the wings.

I feel like this coming year is a “perfect storm” of possibilites. You have a solid backfield coming back behind 2 returning starters on the line, and all of your TEs are back. Yes there are some holes to be filled, but the athletes on this team will be a great solution for these weaknesses. Defensively there are very few questions, yes the secondary will be young, and the defensive ends will be untested. But when you have quality ingredients, as PSU does, the end results will be of good quality. 2 losses next year is about the most I can reasonably expect, barring injury or other unforseen events.

Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno

by carolinaeasy on Jan 30, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bravo!

Keep it in perspective

by JuniataMan on Jan 30, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Syracuse Screwing us...

While in principle i agree with what you are saying, Syracuse was signed to be a good team and they let us down, i’d like to add a couple points for everyones consideration.

1. Syracuse was supposed to be the OrSU of this year, they were supposed to be the OrSU of last year too =)
2.I agree the constraint of filling 7.5 home games every year makes it hard on the AD, but why the heck do we ever give Temple home games???

by platnumkid on Jan 30, 2009 10:01 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Either we pay Temple for each home game

or save some money and travel to Philly. All things considered, it is probably a damn good cost savings.

Or I could be completely wrong, and really have no idea what the agreement is between the two schools. But I figure the 2-and-1 deal probably filled a slot in the schedule and saved us some money.

by IcersGuy on Jan 30, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I dont know the terms of the deal either...

But i would imaging that we dont pay them any money for when they come here, our payment is playing in Philly and allowing them to sell out a game once every 3 years. So really the total monetary gain would be the savings from of the trip to Philly vs. a trip somewhere else + 0.166666667 x home game revenue each year.

For that cost we could be signing Home and Home’s with high profile schools.

by platnumkid on Jan 30, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My guess

that would be my guess. We signed 2 different 2 for 1 deals with Temple (plus a seperate one and done deal for 2008) and I suspect we don’t pay Temple any guarentee money for those games in Happy Valley with the idea that a game in Philly 1 out of 3 years makes plenty of money for the Owls.

I think PSU likes the agreement because it enables the team to have a greater presence in Eastern PA and give a close game for the fans there (and those in NJ and NYC and Maryland).

by Laaaaazzz on Jan 30, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Completely with your first paragraph. And your second points makes alot of sense and probable explains the whole thing.

Now the question is how much does it cost to rent out the Lincoln Field and hold one of our home games there to facilitate E. PA /NYC fans and still maintain our home game ratio.

by platnumkid on Jan 30, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My company does the sponsorship sales for Temple Athletics. It costs $1 million a game to do a game at the Linc.

PSU Softball

by QBsneak12 on Jan 30, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Temple

I’m pretty sure the Big Ten and the MAC have some agreement (I quickly searched and couldn’t find anything) that means a MAC school gets a game (ie a payout) from a Big Ten team every year. Penn State wanted to keep the money in PA rather than help fund out of state schools, so Temple was added every year.

It’s not as obvious at other BT schools because there are often multiple MAC schools in each state (three in Michigan, six in Ohio, for example); PA only has one.

And no, Pitt is not in the MAC, they just play like it. (zing!)

BSD

by Kevin HD on Jan 30, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Curious on Temple as well

wasn’t Temple the filler for when the Big 10 moved to the 12 game schedule? Could be completely off base on this one…

by IcersGuy on Jan 30, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not against playing (read with a silent "L") Temple

I’m against playing @ Temple.

And we got Akron on the sched too, thats 2 MAC teams.

by platnumkid on Jan 30, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

2 MAC teams

It happens. I hate it too, but it happens:

2007 Ohio State: played Akron and Kent St.
2006 Ohio State: played N. Illinois and BG
2008 Michigan: played Miami (OH) and Toledo
2008 Indiana: played Ball St and C. Michigan

I’m sure there are a lot more examples, but I’m tired of looking.

BSD

by Kevin HD on Jan 30, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying 2MAC is impossible

If you’re going to put E Illinois on the sched there is nothing wrong with 2 MAC team. I was just pointing out that keeping Temple on the sched is unlike to be because of the Big10/MAC deal as we meet our MAC requirement regardless of playing Temple.

At any rate my real beef is that if we playing road games they could be in Florida or Texas or Cali. Not for the direct recruiting there but for the national exposure.

by platnumkid on Jan 30, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Temple Deal

I believe the Temple deal is a 3-for-1 deal. We get three home games, and when we go to Philly, Temple is allowed to lump the PSU game into a three game package. So when the PSU fans buy the tickets they are forced to buy tix to two other games too, so in effect Temple gets three sellouts too.

by BSD on Jan 30, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Also

There is a pretty big Philly contingent that loves that game in Philly. Even back in the old days the Rutgers and Temple series were unbalanced, 3-2 or something like that. But the Philly and Giants Stadium games through the 70’s and 80’s were huge recruting games for us.

No, this is not a reason to play Pitt.

"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008

by jesse. on Jan 30, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Two for 1

Our schedules with Temple are two seperate 2 for 1 deals (2006H/2007A/ 2009H and 2010H/2011A/2012H) as well a seperate 1 and done deal (2008). We seem to have a good working relationship with Temple (we’ve played them in basketball quite a bit as well).

As for the packaging of tickets, I don’t think PSU cares one way or the other. The game at the Linc is Temple’s home game and they can sell tix as they see fit (less the few thousand tickets they give to PSU to sell as away tickets). If Temple wants to package them, they can. If they don’t, they can do that as well.

But more specifically, Temple tried to package the tickets for PSU. Then after a certain date, they just put all the remaining tickets on sale — most of the Penn Staters I know bought the tickets at that point, realizing that there would be plenty of seats available without having to buy tix for other Temple games. If one is interested in going to the game in 2011 in Philly, I’d keep this in mind.

by Laaaaazzz on Jan 30, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

just a question

what would the penalty be if psu purposely scheduled below the predetermined limit of home games per year? i’m guessing some kind of fine.

would we be thrown out of the big 10? would delaney kill the firstborn in state college and drink their blood?

World F#$king Champions

by psudrozz on Jan 30, 2009 10:09 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Scheduled below?

Probably no outside penalties, but it would be a large disservice to our other athletic teams. I’m sure there’d be a number of business in the area that would also struggle without that push of revenue each year.

Of course, somebody could penalize us – if banks charge you for not having enough money in your account, somebody can fine us for not generating enough revenue internally…

by IcersGuy on Jan 30, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

As IcerGuy snidely stated

It’s not a real limit, it just a mark the Athletic Department uses to ensure that there is enough money availible to fund all the various sports. Also sorry if you were being sarcastic with your question psudrozz, its hard to tell on message boards

by platnumkid on Jan 30, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The way I feel about the schedule is the way I feel about everything PSU football right now-I’m just enjoying the ride and have hopes that things will change in a couple of years. Fran Ganter did an interview on BWI and has all sorts of excuses, but they can do better than this. I’m cool with 8 home games b/c I live in State College and don’t have to travel, but if I were still in Baltimore it’d be annoying. Even still, it’s not that difficult to sell tickets for face value on the ticket exchange, even for games like E Illinois.

Is that Bracketology site Joe Lunardi’s? We’ve moved up to last four out? Holla!

by speedomike on Jan 30, 2009 10:29 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

You give me hope - Thanks!

pinkertonpark.com - you owe yerself a laugh.

by rahpsu92 on Jan 30, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh, as a season ticket holder, right now I'm

looking at the home games and wondering – since I live 7+ hours away and usually only get to 1-2 games/year (this year probably only OSU), how the hell am I going to find buyers at face value for

Sept. 5 AKRON

Sept. 12 SYRACUSE

Sept. 19 TEMPLE

Sept. 26 IOWA

Oct. 10 EASTERN ILLINOIS

Oct. 17 MINNESOTA

Nov. 14 INDIANA

Maybe I should start sacrificing goats and chickens in hopes that Minnesota and Iowa can pull together better than average teams this year.

pinkertonpark.com - you owe yerself a laugh.

by rahpsu92 on Jan 30, 2009 10:32 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Well

You should be able to find buyers for Iowa and Minnesota fairly easily. Iowa’s starting the season off ranked (also the revenge game). Minnesota is homecoming.

by PizzaDelivery on Jan 30, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You should be able to sell 4 of those tickets easy

‘Cuse will have older alums decently intrigued, and it is a team that hasn’t been to Happy Valley in a while.

Temple will sell because you’ll get the Philly crowd out.

Iowa sells because it will be a revenge game.

Minnesota sells because its homecoming weekend.

As for the rest, Akron might sell, with it being the first game of the season. As for Eastern Motors Illinois and Indiana, well…. you might have to sneak them in with something like this

by IcersGuy on Jan 30, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The home schedule

is brutal this year. 6 home games in 7 weeks? I may as well ask my bosses to open a State College branch right now.

(almost) every year I think about skipping a game – but then I don’t – this season it may happen.

by PSUgirl on Jan 30, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure the turf-grass guys are pissed.

They have a reputation to uphold.

BSD

by Kevin HD on Jan 30, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll buy your Minnesota tickets

Seriously

Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.

by WFY on Jan 30, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

When I get them, I'll track you down -

I know where you blog!

pinkertonpark.com - you owe yerself a laugh.

by rahpsu92 on Jan 30, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ill buy the

iowa tickets!!!!

World F#$king Champions

by psudrozz on Jan 30, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Use the online ticket exchange

Just get them up there early. I was able to get face for the Temple game last year. I’d bet you could get at least face for most of those games. If not, you can probably get over face for a couple and even things out.

by speedomike on Jan 30, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I Saw Somewhere

That the average RPI for Big 10 teams was second only to the ACC.

by PizzaDelivery on Jan 30, 2009 10:40 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Was that

the article where it was talking about % of games vs. other BSC teams? Cuz that article was very positive for us but didn’t really take into account true strength of schedule, playing Florida = playing Syracuse.

by platnumkid on Jan 30, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Lance Marshall, Michael Madeira: The cat is out of the bag finally

Ok, I think of all the good info in this post, this is the most critical.

Related Story

We’ve been complaining for years now that the DA in Centre County, Madeira, is basically a megalomaniac out to make headlines by trumping up charges against PSU athletes. This reached it’s apex this spring with the OTL piece, which highlighted this guy’s good work, while leaving out that 90% of the charges he files get dropped.

I believe this is the fine gentleman who graduated from Bob Jones University when it was an unaccredited institution handing out fake diplomas. If I recall correctly this was the same university wouldn’t admit black students until a major Supreme Court decision basically forced it to in 1975. They didn’t allow inter-racial dating until 2000. Madeira graduated in 1986 while the university was still involved in various court cases regarding their apparent racism.

Anyway, flash-forward a few years, and this guy is trying to make a name for himself busting PSU players and making headlines. Now his buddy Marshall has been exposed as a sicko, and this is a guy Madeira stuck up for during the whole Paxon and Scott incident.

This story, and the resulting fallout needs to be made VERY public. If we had to sit and hear about how Joe’s lost control of the team and players are all thugs and criminals it needs to be also said that the guys involved with charging them are being exposed as corrupt and worse. In fact, I’m hoping Joe makes a statement about it — because no one has more power and influence in State College than Paterno. If he speaks up, hopefully the community will oust Madeira.

"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.

by millzners on Jan 30, 2009 11:57 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

compared to the 1986 season

09/06/1986 Temple
09/20/1986 at Boston College
09/27/1986 East Carolina
10/04/1986 Rutgers
10/11/1986 Cincinnati
10/18/1986† Syracuse
10/25/1986 at #2 Alabama
11/01/1986 at West Virginia
11/08/1986 Maryland
11/15/1986 at Notre Dame
11/22/1986 Pittsburgh

Feels similar to me, and we won it all this year (not that I needed to remind anyone). Minnesota might be the sleeper next year.

by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 30, 2009 3:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

PSU schedule is not that different than SEC teams

Check out the 2009 schedules for Florida and Alabama. Their non-conference games don’t appear to be difficult either.

I'm not saying LET ME BE ME, I'm saying Let me be me - Randall Cunningham

by Philly Nittany Lion 91 on Jan 30, 2009 9:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

SEC

The difference is when you have Florida, Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, and Georgia in your conference you don’t have to go out and schedule big games in your OOC schedule.

by BSD on Jan 31, 2009 7:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

True...no debate

" ...the pool or the pond; the pond is good for you..."

by BlueWhiteLife on Jan 31, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But

(and I might still agree anyway) you have to remember they miss three teams every year.

Florida doesn’t play Auburn or Alabama in 2009.

Alabama obviously misses Florida but also doesn’t play UGA.

BSD

by Kevin HD on Feb 1, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

True

But they also have a conference championship game. So even if they miss the best team in the other division during the regular season, the two best teams from each division are going to square off at some point.

by BSD on Feb 3, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

mostly true

see: Tennessee/Georgia 2007

by The JuggerNitt on Feb 3, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We need the home games

We need to have 7-8 home games per year to support the rest of PSU’s atheltic teams. Has anyone seen the story that Ohio St atheltics is losing money?

I think we all would like to see a tougher OOC schedule. Its coming – a home and home with Alabama in the next few years!

I'm not saying LET ME BE ME, I'm saying let me be me. - Randall Cunningham

by Philly Nittany Lion 91 on Feb 3, 2009 5:40 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I still don't completely buy this argument

since there used to only be 11 games on the schedule, and then we “needed” 6-7 home games a year. Other sports haven’t increased, so why do we all of a sudden need another game? Obviously you can never have “too much” money, but I don’t completely buy the “need” part of it.

by The JuggerNitt on Feb 4, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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