Would Derrick Williams Be Able To Save Bobby Bowden Too?

It would have been a lot harder for Joe Paterno to get things going in the right direction again if we played 200 miles away from Florida instead of Pitt.

this is relative. if you replaced florida with california i’d say the same thing. the types of recruits we would be able to get would be quite different. unfortunately. of course i’m sure joe would have a much more difficult time stressing the academic things down there…

Bobby is the opposite of Joe — the coach that never cared for academics, the principles of a student athlete, or the image of the university.

Bobby simply did whatever it took to win, and he did it with little regard to the small things that make you a great person not just a great coach. The result is that when things turn bad for the football team, there’s absolutely no good will in the bank to act as a saving grace. With Joe you have the millions of dollars in money raised and personally donated, you have the commitment to high academic standards, and more than anything he’s someone who made the program proud every day.

Bowden is a snake, and a villain — he deserves no sympathy in my opinion. When you stake your reputation on the ‘win at all cost’ mantra you are bound to have this happen. The ultimate irony is that it didn’t work, and all that cheating and scamming only got him 2nd place.
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As Gump said, that’s all I’ve got to say about that.

Because, it could be like this if we have another downturn knock on wood here. Yet, I don’t think it’ll ever get as ugly as it’s going to get in Tallahassee up here though.

I remember being a student back in 01-06, some of the nasty things that alumni and students were saying about Joe being old and needing fresh blood to come in. Joe’s stubborn, that’s for sure but the big changes were: Mike McQueary became recruiting coordinator over Jay Paterno. Jay was responsible for those bad classes we had from 98-02 that led to a talent dip. I believe Mike became the recruiting coordinator in time for the 2004 class (Poz). Galen Hall came in as OC, not a complete outsider since he played for Joe but he coached at Florida and Oklahoma and taught Jay the basics of the Spread HD. Plus, the defense NEVER GOT AS BAD AS THE FSU DEFENSE!! The 03 season… that was hell on earth. 2004, if the O could have scored 5 more TDs, instead of being 4-7, that team with that D would have been 6-5. 2006 Defense kept the first year of Morelli from being as bad as it could have been. 2007 Defense was weaker. 2008… yeah. 2009 defense kept the Iowa game from getting uglier.

FSU is in a real free-fall and a change is the only thing that’ll keep that program from dying. I just hope that Joe, when its time, doesn’t fight it like Bowden is.

I know your question was rhetorical, but I’ll answer anyway. Bowden has signed 33 more 4 or 5 star recruits between 2005 – 2009 then PSU (70 – 37). So my answer is no.

issues were one of talent decline, then you would think that a Derrick Williams type of recruit could change the opinion of FSU in the eyes of other recruits. 2006 and 2007 were lousy according to Tomahaw Nation, but 2008 and 2009 turned it around. That said, it sounds like Fisher and the assistants are recruiting “against” Bowden.

The “Coach in Waiting” position at FSU has caused more harm than good. It undermines Bowden while giving no power over the program to Fisher. Thank God PSU didn’t follow through with what looked like interest in doing the same.

I think another thing that makes this situation different than Joe’s in the Dark Years is that Florida St. has never dipped to the level we were at. They’ve had winning records through all of this. We sucked, then we got much better. The Noles have flatlined, and I think that’s why you’re seeing the frustration manifest itself this way.

I guess what I’m saying is, there was always a feeling of “We can’t suck forever, we’re fricking Penn State” around here, and even though none of us saw 2005 coming, we knew we’d get better eventually. The coaches didn’t just get stupid the summer of 2003.

But at FSU, the idea of being hopelessly mediocre is diving people nuts, I think, and that’s why you’re seeing this happen.

I’m kind of conflicted. On the one hand, I don’t feel sorry that his legacy is going down in tatters and in flames. The guy has proven (to me at least) that above all else, he only wants The Record, and all else is secondary to him, including academics, which should never be below sports for a student-athlete. His antics this whole summer pleading and scheming for his wins back have lowered the already low opinion I had of him to begin with. As soon as it came up that he was looking back to his days as a junior college coach to count those wins as well, I lost any respect I had left, which was very little.

But on the other hand, it’s sad that a very long, storied career (granted it has been scarred with scandals and controversies) ends the way it almost did for Paterno: in mediocrity, with your fans, alumni, trustees, and school turning against you. In that respect, I can’t help but pity him, because it almost happened to Joe. So part of me actually feels sorry. But the other part of me feels like this is a classic example of karma coming back to bite him in the ass. So I guess that pity is the only emotion I feel for him. No sadness, no exuberant joy that his days are numbered. Just pity that he let it get to this point without cutting his losses, and leaving while his image wasn’t tarnished as badly as it looks right now.

Mike really brought it on this one.

But it’s a business, after all. In PSU’s case, I don’t believe we ever had the threatened mass revolt of big money boosters that FSU is dealing with. I’m sure there were a few annoyed bigwigs, but the difference between these situations is that Paterno built up decades of goodwill running a clean program and going out of his way to do whatever he could for Penn State as a university, not a football program. And I don’t say that to demean whatever Bowden does for FSU, because I really don’t know what he does for the university.

Part of this is a culture thing, as well. It’s impossible to quantify this, but I think winning and losing simply means more to FSU people. Their identity is wrapped up in winning. Our identity is wrapped up in Penn State (which also happens to mean a very successful football program, most of the time). It’s a slight, but important difference.

Perhaps a much lesser point — Florida State really hit its stride in 1979. Joe Paterno had already been coaching at PSU for 13 years. Joe really controls a lot of what goes on in Happy Valley, and he really doesn’t have any of the oversight that Bowden currently has (especially with the FSU president on his way out). Paterno basically installed the A.D. at PSU. Not sure Bowden had that same luxury.

Movin’ on up to the FP.

The general consensus here, and one I agree with, is that we’re suppose to be out in the streets celebrating the fact that our guy will probably come out on top when in fact we all feel a little dirty inside after reading the news. In hindsight I should have been wishing for a much cleaner version of justice, although this ranks ladders below the regret I felt after going back and reading Robinson’s story.

that Sue Pa was fighting Joe’s battles with the public -

Some of the boosters at fsu might actually remember bringing bobby to tallahassee – no one, other than Coach Engle, brought Paterno to Penn State.

It’s a different atmosphere, culture and situation – but it’s certainly not “nice.”

I know he was a long shot, but I remember being crushed and frustrated when I learned that Rolle committed to Florida State. To me, he represented everything in the ideal PSU player and almost nothing in an FSU player aside from athletic talent and an attraction to winning football.

I think he could have been an eloquent booster for FSU football, an advocate and leader on the field, and a way of rebranding the football program—much like Derrick Williams from 2005-2008. Unfortunately, he was the exception to the rule at Free Shoes U.

Interestingly, the end result of Rolle’s FSU experience is great from the perspective of a PSU fan: FSU gained very little from him in terms of wins and recruits, but he’s grown as a person and become a deserved Rhodes Scholar. I wish all the best for Rolle.

The situation in Tally shows us why, especially because the parties involved seem unable — and unwilling — to handle the situation discreetly.

Discretion is not the South’s most amicable of proclivities.

meh. I always thought the D coordinator (Andrews) was the secret to his success. I think Bowden has been a figure head there for 15 years. You could/can tell JoePa is involved in Xs and Os (for good or ill). FSU fans feel frustrated by the rise of the SEC and Florida in particular. For much of the 80s and 90s, “Southern” football was FSU and Da U. Now both are clearly second tier down there.

I think it’s funny how 2 short years ago, everyone was lauding Florida State for incorporating this succession plan while simultaneously pointing a finger at PSU and asking “hey, why aren’t you guys laying out a logical plan like this?”

And where has it gotten Florida State? Now, everyone is standing around, tapping their foot and getting impatient for the old man to get the hell out of the fast lane. They’re going to shove him out the door, ultimately tarnishing whatever legacy he had there. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m pretty glad we’re leaving things open-ended. I wouldn’t want the next step for the program to be known, because I see now that it would lead to a situation like this inevitably.

It is clearly taken from a larger video. Maybe it wasn’t the most motivational of speeches but he is saying what needs to be said. Take care of the little things and take advantage of the opportunity at hand. Without the entire video posted how do we know Bobby doesn’t get all fired up? Maybe he uses his crib sheet to make sure he covers everything. Who can blame him? I don’t care a whole lot for Bobby Bowden, but this whole things stinks…he deserves better.

Seems an appropriate place: