RANKING THE CONFERENCES

Which Sagarin ranking are you using?

And what was the logic behind introducing Steele’s Power Rankings? Just trying to get an idea of the thoughts behind these rankings.

"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

by IcersGuy on Nov 23, 2009 3:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Sagarin from last Wed and PS Power ratings from last Thursday….I wanted to get a cross-section,hence two different ratings. I’m a die-hard PS fan and I’m tired of my brethern thinking The Big 10 is better than they actually are! I offered this up as a bit of reality to those thinking the Big 10 is just a player or two away. Also to stop the Pitt and Big East bashing…..

by seebs2 on Nov 23, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You're tired of us thinking the Big Ten is better than they actually are?

What?

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."
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It doesn't matter if you "won't remember them" years from now because we'll probably all be dead years from now.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 23, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Kind of RR.....

10 years ago Big 10 was a medalist….if not gold standard. I know some are going to say admission requirements,top to bottom strength,more teams in other conferences,etc…..

From a purely football playing standpoint….Many other conferences have passed the BT and if winning a BT title is how you measure your program,so be it. I liked the olden days when PSU’s ultimate goal was MNC….though I have come around and enjoy watching and rooting for other BT teams..though it is very painful when playing OOC!

by seebs2 on Nov 23, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's not what I meant

What I meant was that there aren’t people on here overrating the Big Ten. I have never seen anyone doing such.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."
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It doesn't matter if you "won't remember them" years from now because we'll probably all be dead years from now.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 23, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's the second time you've said "your"

Your conference and your program? So are you a Penn State fan or not?

by speedomike on Nov 24, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmmmm

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 24, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To me, seebs2 is using

“your” as a neutral adjective.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Nov 24, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ND would finish 5th or 6th. I think they would lose to MSU if they played again. Maybe even Purdue.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."
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It doesn't matter if you "won't remember them" years from now because we'll probably all be dead years from now.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 23, 2009 3:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Really, ND should have lost both of those games

The idiot Emu’s quote about being how ever many seconds away from undefeated, is also how ever many seconds away from being completely defeated.

by dawsonPSU10 on Nov 23, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rank:

SEC
Pac10
Big Ten
Mountain West
ACC
Big East
Big XII

NittanyWhiteOut.com. Arguably the second best Penn State blog I know of.

by PSUdevon on Nov 23, 2009 4:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'd switch the Pac10 and the SEC and put the ACC on the bottom

by PSUisMyHeart on Nov 23, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Disagre

The ACC isn’t even close to the badness that is the Big 12

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."
-
It doesn't matter if you "won't remember them" years from now because we'll probably all be dead years from now.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 23, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't they both have unbelievably terrible OOC showings?

you might be right, but I’m confident the ACC Atlantic can give the Big 12 North a run for it’s money in the race for suckitude.

ACC Atlantic: 31-35
Big 12 North: 35-33

by PSUisMyHeart on Nov 23, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pac 10
SEC
ACC
Big Ten
Big East
Mountain West
Big 12

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."
-
It doesn't matter if you "won't remember them" years from now because we'll probably all be dead years from now.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 23, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Big East ahead of Big Ten

Can’t believe I didn’t fix that.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."
-
It doesn't matter if you "won't remember them" years from now because we'll probably all be dead years from now.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 23, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Forgive me if I LOL at Phil Steele's power ratings right now

He’s got Oklahoma at 132, tied with Texas Tech for second best in the Big 12, ahead of OSU, PSU, Iowa, and a bunch of other teams they’d lose to.

by PSUisMyHeart on Nov 23, 2009 4:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Thank goodness

Now I can stop thinking that the Big 10 is a good conference this year.

Nothing personal.

by smashtheguitar on Nov 23, 2009 5:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

there's no one who thinks the Big 10 is what it was ten years ago

by Mr. Rosewater on Nov 23, 2009 5:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Precisely

And I haven’t see anyone on here suggesting that.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."
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It doesn't matter if you "won't remember them" years from now because we'll probably all be dead years from now.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 23, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

but we're much better than the Big XII

which is Texas and nobody else.

NittanyWhiteOut.com. Arguably the second best Penn State blog I know of.

by PSUdevon on Nov 23, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why not just average?

Average the rankings. The way you are doing it is biased in favor of 12 team conferences since a slight below average B-12, ACC and SEC team is compared to the worst Big East team.

The PAC-10 does well, even with the 12 team bias. The Big East clearly needs some help. B-10, well, #5 seems pretty fair right now.

by gcdyersb on Nov 23, 2009 8:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Something to chew on...

http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm

Individual teams at the top, conferences at the bottom.

"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

by IcersGuy on Nov 23, 2009 8:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't pay very much attention to this stuff, and do not understand how to read or understand that. You've shown an understanding, so I leave it to you

TIA.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."
-
It doesn't matter if you "won't remember them" years from now because we'll probably all be dead years from now.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 23, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is from Massey

one of the 6 statistical rankings. He’s basically done a simple meta-analysis of 94 of different rating scales. The scales used in this meta-analysis are, as Massey describes it:

The comparison is open to any set of well developed computer generated ratings, as well as widely published national polls such as the AP or USA Today Coaches’. If you have a set of rankings that you think should be included, please let me know.

So the scale either has to be an advanced computer rating, or a well-known human poll ranking (like the AP). He then finds the mean/median/standard deviation of each team and each conference, and then posts the rankings accordingly. In essence, he’s developing a “consensus” ranking for each team and conference.

As to the addition to the topic at hand, here’s how the conferences stack-up:

SEC
Pac-10
Big East
ACC
Big XII
BIg Ten
Independents
MWC

"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

by IcersGuy on Nov 23, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Big 12

There are a bunch of ratings on there that have the Big 12 as the 2nd or 3rd best conference.

by speedomike on Nov 24, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for another view......

Pretty much how I had it figured. Everyone wants to dismiss the ACC and Big 12 …..I’m just trying to show an unbiased opinion and that BT has a way to go before reclaiming “Big Boy” status among the elite. I also think it would be a shame to play in a BCS bowl ahead of other more deserving schools. Remember guys….I bleed Blue & White but am a realist.

by seebs2 on Nov 23, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Something I found interesting

And I wish he had posted the st.dev for the conferences, but it seems like the middle group of conferences have a lot of deviation between ranking systems.

The SEC is usually #1 or #2 (saw an occasional 3, and a single outlier of 4). The Big Ten usually found itself between 4-6 – which sounds about right to me. However, the Pac-10 swung between 1-5 with some regularity; Big East swung from 1-6; ACC from 2-6 (with a couple 1’s, somehow); and the Big XII from 2-7.

The rankings could put the SEC at/towards the top, and the Big Ten towards the lower half of the BCS conferences. But the other 4 conferences, there was absolutely no consensus between the rankings. Interesting to think about as part of this discussion.

"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

by IcersGuy on Nov 23, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Stop with this "deserving" stuff

Seriously, it doesn’t matter at all in the equation.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."
-
It doesn't matter if you "won't remember them" years from now because we'll probably all be dead years from now.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 23, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't tell

if you’re a troll or just weird.

by jigalion on Nov 24, 2009 8:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who would be going ahead of that "deserves" it?

by speedomike on Nov 24, 2009 8:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

can't we just wait six weeks or whatever

for the bowl games, at which point we will have, you know, actual evidence about how the conferences stack up, instead of relying on ooc games from two months ago and a bunch of interconference games in between.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Nov 24, 2009 10:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

We can't do that

See, the Big Ten stands a fair chance of going 2-0 against the SEC in bowls, but, um, those won’t count.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."
-
It doesn't matter if you "won't remember them" years from now because we'll probably all be dead years from now.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 24, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is dumb.

As in, like, Tim Brewster dumb.

Sagarin’s ratings are skewed by Pac-10 and ACC schedule fetishism this year. Of the top 20 schedules in his ratings, 9 are in the P10 and 7 are ACC. That’s fundamentally absurd, enough to where his SOS ratings need to be called into question (and this is coming from a guy whose team is benefiting from the BCS computers).

As for Steele, well, it’s not been a good year for Steele. As mentioned above, his rankings have Oklahoma (as in 6-5 Oklahoma) (as in we’ve beaten one team with a winning record, and that was A&M Oklahoma) better than any team in the Big Ten. Without seeing his methodology, I’d have to say that’s pretty much false.

So go ahead. Find any arbitrary method of determining what conference you think is best. It doesn’t really matter. Come bowl season, either the Big Ten will prove itself (and draw out myriad explanations from its detractors) or it won’t (and draw out myriad explanations from its defenders).

Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.

by Hawkeye State on Nov 24, 2009 11:41 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

Yeah

Phil seems to be off his game a little this year. His latest bowl projections don’t make much sense. I think it’s great that he analyzes football as closely as he does. But it’s also a little insane.

by speedomike on Nov 24, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Phil seems to be off his game a little T/Y. His latest B/Ps don’t make much sense.

Fixed

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 24, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

VHT FTW

Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.

by Hawkeye State on Nov 24, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

DONT SHOOT THE MESSENGER

BIG 10 respect, computer rankings, etc. will come if the conference wins Bowl Games and Out Of Conference Games.
Can’t lose to FCS teams, get clocked in Bowls, and expect to be rated anywhere else expect where they are.
PSU signature wins this year? Northwestern (9-3) and Temple(8-2).

Big10 needs to start winning.

Elizabeth, the only person on earth working at the same job longer than JoePa.

by joefromboalsburg on Nov 24, 2009 1:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Which Big Ten teams have lost to FCS teams this year?

Unless we’re still perceving the conference to be weak just because the conference was weak in 2007.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 24, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

fwiw

I’d put the FCS Colonial Athletic Association above the Sun Belt. I haven’t checked, but I believe they have more wins against BCS schools this year than the Sun Belt.

by Cairo on Nov 24, 2009 4:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs