Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Josh Hamilton's Unique Public Statement On His Addiction

Hate Week: EVERYONE ELSE! WITH CHARTS!


BSD - Bumped. Cuz, like, duh...

Edit: The file can be downloaded here. Double edit: I forgot to re-randomize Okla St.'s RNvariable after testing something.  Just copy and paste one of the random number generators in cell P12.

The regular season is done.  Penn State stands at 10-2 and is the college football equivalent of a "bubble team."  Three questions remain:

 

1) What are the chances of us going to a BCS game?

2) Who are our likely opponents?  Who do we have no shot of playing?

3) Who do we hate?

Ladies and gents, I present The Chart of Answers:

Calculations-1_medium

 

The chart in all of its excel precedent/dependent glory. It looks like a plate of hurl.

Star-divide

The Chart of Answers is my attempt to determine the most likely result of the NCAA season from this point on. The entire system is run on the informational theory process of simple entropy.  Think of it has flipping dozens of weighted coins dozens of times.  Although you can't definitely prove what will happen, you can infer some trends as a result.  the trick is in providing the correct "weight" to the coins (or NCAA football teams) to give you the results you believe to be most correct.  It's quick, it's dirty, and it's inherently biased, and I'm sure some people smarter than me can provide a better method of figuring this stuff out.  I have tried to be as unbiased (a loaded word) as possible and put my best guesses in determining who would be selected after the results of the conference championship games.  Keep in mind, this is all IN FUN--I don't intend this as a slight to your program.

The first step is to determine which teams should be studied.  Ohio $tate is a certain invitation to the Rose Bowl.  The following teams are fighting for the remaining BCS slots as of right now:

Alabama, Florida, Texas, TCU, Cincinnati, Boise State, Georgia Tech, Oregon, Pittsburgh, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, Nebraska, Clemson, Iowa, Penn State.

Of these, all but Iowa and Penn State have games to play between now and the start of bowl season.  Virginia Tech and Miami, FL have very slight chances of making the big bowls, but they are on the edge of the Top 14 in the BCS standings right now.  I factored them in to the mix in a different way. 

The next thing to figure out is how to determine the odds of a team winning all of its games, losing a regular season game, losing a conference game, or losing all of its remaining games.  It is important not only if they lose, but when they lose as this has major implications on selection.  I think Bleed Blue 'n White has previously referenced this study concerning sports statistics.  Fittingly, it is titled, "Use and Abuse of Information in Sports." Don't mind if I do!  Their study determined that sports book spreads are one of the best methods of determining the winner of the game overall.  I'm not interested in beating the spread, I'm interested in knowing how often a favorite wins the game.  Overall, the team listed as the favorite in the spread would be won by the favorite 75% of the time.  Also, the greater the spread, the greater the chance the favorite would win.  Here's their findings:

 

  Games won
spread  by favorite
1 52%
1.5 47%
2 55%
2.5 51%
3 62%
3.5 57%
4 63%
4.5 67%
5 69%
5.5 78%
6 65%
6.5 71%
7 73%
8 80%
9 75%
10 74%
> 10 83%

 

Although there are obvious biases with individual spreads designed to sucker in bettors, it seems like a fairly effective method of "weighting" the chance of a team winning a game.  There are spreads available for every game this coming week, so I placed the percent values for this weeks games.  I then had to use a bit of creativity to  estimated the spreads of the games in the coming weeks.

 

 

Team Opponent Chance of win Opponent Chance of win
Alabama at Auburn 83% Florida 50%
Florida FSU 100% Alabama 50%
Texas at Texas A&M 83% Nebraska 73%
TCU New Mexico 83%   100%
Cincy Illinois 100% at Pitt 52%
Boise State Nevada 83% NM State 83%
GA Tech Georgia 73% Clemson 73%
Oregon   100% Oregon St 73%
Pitt at West Va 47% Cincinnati 48%
Okla St. at Oklahoma 73%   100%

 

These values can be calculated to determine the odds that a team will win.  For example, Alabama has an 83% chance of beating Auburn, and a 50% chance of beating Florida. 

0.83 * 0.5 = 0.415

They therefore have a 41.5% chance of winning their final two games at Auburn and versus Florida. 

You probably noticed the 100% values next to Cincinnati-Illinois and Florida-FSU.  The issue is that Florida, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Alabama are the only teams remaining that play each other with major implications to BCS placement.  There are so many iterations that even removing two games makes things much much easier.  Also, the odds of the Bearcats being affected by a loss to Illinois coupled with a win over Pitt is very small: they're pretty much a lock to the Sugar Bowl unless chaos happened above them and they go to the National Championship game.  The odds of Cincinnati beating Pitt, losing to Illinois, Texas losing, and TCU losing are very small.  Again, this system isn't perfect.  Also, some teams have a 100% chance against Bye Week.  Since none of these teams are coached by Charlie Weis, I feel they have what it takes to win against Nobody State.

I formalized the assumptions here:

Assumptions:

  • Florida will defeat Florida State
  • Cincinnati will defeat Illinois
  • If Pitt loses to West Virginia, they will also lose to Cincinnati (also for simplicity)
  • If both SEC teams have exactly one loss, with Alabama having one loss to Auburn and Florida having one loss to Alabama, both teams will still be ahead of an undefeated Boise State in the BCS standings if Texas, TCU, and Cincinnati also lose. (also for simplicity)
  • An undefeated Boise State will be selected over a 2-loss Big Ten school in the Fiesta Bowl

These again are not guarantees.  I also made an assumption about the wistful leanings of the good ol' boys in the technicolor suits:

Selection chance assumptions between PSU and Iowa only:
Sugar Bowl- 50% PSU, 50% Iowa
Fiesta Bowl- 60% Iowa, 40% PSU
Orange Bowl- 60% PSU, 40% Iowa

Selection chance assumptions between PSU, Iowa, and Oklahoma State:
Fiesta Bowl- 35% Iowa, 35% OSU, 30% PSU


Effect of assumptions (things that weren't factored in the calculations but are noted):

  • Outlier: A one-loss Pitt team that lost to WVU but defeated Cincinnati may be selected with the 7th-10th pick.
  • Outlier: Oklahoma State has a small chance of being selected by the Orange Bowl.
  • Outlier: A 2-loss Big Ten school may be selected over Boise State in the Fiesta Bowl.
  • Outlier: The calculations assume a 10.5 point favorite has the same odds of winning as a 40 point favorite.
  • Outlier: No style points.

Then I factored the BCS pecking order:

1 and 2. National Championship: BCS #1  vs. BCS #2

3 and 4. Rose Bowl: Pac-10 Champion (Oregon or Oregon State) vs. Big Ten Champion 
(Ohio State)

5. Sugar Bowl Pick #1: Replacement pick for SEC champion (in all circumstances except one)

6. Fiesta Bowl Pick #1: BCS at-large

7 and 8. Orange Bowl: ACC Champion vs. BCS at-large

9. Fiesta Bowl Pick #2: BCS at-large

10. Sugar Bowl Pick #2: BCS at-large

Conferences opponents can't face each other except in the National Championship, and only two teams from each BCS conference can be selected.  At large picks are determined by I then ran the exercise several hundred times and tweaked the system until I removed all of the errors--Pitt v. Pitt in the Sugar Bowl and the like.  There is still one error: about 2% of the time there are two Big Ten teams selected in the mush of 6th-9th selections.  Since Ohio $tate is locked into the Rose Bowl, that would lead to three Big Ten teams in the BCS.  I can't resolve it without a circular reference, and that makes my head hurt.  These results are thrown out. Otherwise things are pretty gravy.

So, now that everything is fine and dandy, I ran the exercise one hundred times and recorded the results.  Here are some highlights:

 

Fiesta_medium

Here's one of the more common results.  Everyone wins except for the loser of the SEC Championship game and Pitt.  As a result, the Fiesta Bowl representative against Boise State is determined between PSU, Iowa, and Oklahoma State (30%/35%/35% chance respectively) and PSU has come out with an invite.  The SEC Champion and Fiesta Bowl rep shifts, but this matches the projections of many people predicting the BCS games.

 

Orange_medium

Here's a less common scenario where PSU makes it to the Orange Bowl.  Texas loses to A&M in the regular season and goes to the Fiesta Bowl, while TCU goes to Pasadena.  The Orange Bowl has the 8th overall pick, and would likely choose the Big Ten 10-2 squad over the available Boise State and Cincinnati.

 

Sugar_medium

Here's a rare scenario that would bring the downfall of the BCS as we know it.  TCU and Cincinnati make it to the National Championship Game.  The Sugar Bowl would make the first pick after the Rose Bowl picks Ohio State and Oregon (or would they?) and would have their pick of either SEC school.  This would force Alabama to the Fiesta Bowl due to intra-conference conflicts with the SEC and Big XII.  There are a couple of iterations where I use a combination of outcomes such as the "Texas/Big Ten team/Va Tech" based on the slotting of teams around it.  In this case, it would almost certainly be the Big Ten.  This is one of the few scenarios where PSU could go to New Orleans.

 

Omgsec_medium


This is the death scenario.  Also known as the OMGSEC!!! scenario.  If this occurred, it would likely mean Florida and Alabama would have just enough points to play a rematch in Pasadena.  We see the "Texas/BigTen/VaTech" in the Sugar Bowl slot again.  Another possibility for PSU in the Sugar Bowl like last time?  No.  In this case, that spot would be the #5 pick, which would almost certainly go to Texas.  The Big Ten representative is in the Orange Bowl, this time the Iowa Hawkeyes.  In spite of all heck breaking lose, there would be no BCS bowl for the Nittany Lions.

I then broke out the results further for non-BCS games.  If Iowa makes a BCS bowl, PSU goes to the Capital One Bowl.  If neither PSU nor Iowa makes it to a BCS Bowl, there's a 50/50 shot of making the Capital One Bowl or the Outback Bowl.

So, I ran the calcs over 100 times.  Here are the tallied results:

PSU in the Capital One Bowl: 48.4%

PSU in the Fiesta Bowl: 23.6%

PSU in the Orange Bowl: 16%

PSU in the Outback Bowl: 11%

PSU in the Sugar Bowl: 1%

 

and the likely opposition, assuming Ole Miss goes to the Cap One Bowl and Tennessee goes to the Outback:

48.4% Ole Miss

14.0% Georgia Tech

13.0% Boise State

11.0% Tennessee

4.2% Oklahoma State

3.6% Nebraska

2.8% "2nd BCS School" (a catchall for certain rare scenarios: usually Okla State, Virginia Tech, or Oregon/Oregon St.)

2.0% Clemson

1.0% Alabama/Florida

 

How about some conclusions?

 

  • PSU can't play Pitt.  There just wouldn't be a credible scenario where they would both be selected by the same bowl.
  • It appears that PSU can't play TCU.  If TCU wins, they're either in the National Championship, or the Orange Bowl against the ACC champion.  If TCU loses, no one is going to select a non-BCS school fresh off a loss to New Mexico.
  • There is no "death" game for PSU's chances.  That is, there is no result from now the end of the conference championship season that would eliminate a second Big Ten representative from being selected.  That said, it helps most if Texas defeats Nebraska.
  • Iowa sucks.

Therefore, this exercise as proven that it is statistically possible to hate every remaining team on the schedule ranked above us. QED

 

 

This has trended away from the typical hate week format, so I'll close with:

 

 

If the BCS system was a West German music act from the late ‘70s/early ‘80s:

 

 

It would be Klaus Nomi.  Why? because I think this exercise has shown that Lightning will have to Strike for this system to actually work as idealistically planned.  For all of the conjectures, this would be a LOT simpler if, ohh... the eight best teams in the BCS rankings managed to play in an eight-team playoff???  We would be left arguing who the 8th/9th best teams in the country are, which are usually a team that has a messup or two on their resume anyways so they have little room to gripe.  Also, like Klaus Nomi the BCS is totally ga... gamey.

 

HATE!

Thanks for the fanpost! Please do not post any content from a premium site that requires a subscription. Also, if you just want to share a link, quote, or video, please consider using fanshots instead. Thanks.

Comment 100 comments  |  11 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

BRILLIANT

+1ELEVENTY0

"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.

by millzners on Nov 24, 2009 4:30 PM EST reply actions  

Jesus H. Zug

That was both intensely awesome and ravishingly brilliant. You’re like the Malcolm Gladwell of Penn State blogs. I’m speechless. I literally have no words.

by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 24, 2009 5:15 PM EST reply actions  

My brain-like computer hurts. But then I’m just a droid. Not sophisticated enough.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 24, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't get it

"For me the game wasn’t grounded in reality. It was about the uniform you put on that turned you into a warrior. It was about the mythology of the battle, the victory, the defeat, the struggle." - Mike Reid, PSU '69

by jtothep on Nov 25, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

hahaha

We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.

by psuwxman on Nov 24, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't laugh, Waxman.

You reporting all this income?

'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'

by Pete the Streak on Nov 24, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

genius

this might be one of the most genius posts I have ever seen. Can someone answer this question, should we root for Oklahoma to beat Oklahoma State or vice versa? thx

by pstaternj on Nov 24, 2009 5:34 PM EST reply actions  

Oklahoma.

Oklahoma State losing drops them out of the Top 14 and out of the equation for a BCS Bowl. The odds are much better for a Big Ten school getting picked if the Cowboys lose so long as Texas wins the Big XII championship.

by Cairo on Nov 24, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

hmm

are you factoring in the supposed likelihood of Ok St getting picked by the Fiesta over Iowa if they win out, and since we have a better chance at the Orange than Iowa, that would boost our chances over Iowa getting selected? Brain hurts.

by pennlion on Nov 24, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

But natch.

Seamus H. Zug on a bike – this is impressive stuff.

Rec’d with a capital REC.

'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'

by Pete the Streak on Nov 24, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

BTW -

Stephen Hawking called.

He wants his brain back.

'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'

by Pete the Streak on Nov 24, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno............

it sure sounded like him.

'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'

by Pete the Streak on Nov 25, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

If you are a PSU fan rooting for PSU to make the BCS, you root for Oklahoma St. Reason being that there’s the chance that the Fiesta Bowl takes Oklahoma St with their replacement pick (assuming they lose Texas to the championship) which leaves it to the Orange to take a Big Ten team. And the Orange seems to be more likely to take PSU over Iowa than the Fiesta (personally, I think either bowl would prefer PSU to Iowa, but I’m just not certain anymore).

Oklahoma St being knocked out of the top 14 does nothing. A Big Ten team is going to the BCS as an at large. Period. Nothing. And I mean nothing can happen that will change that. There is no set of results that will result in 4 teams that are better choices for at large bids.

by Laaaaazzz on Nov 24, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

So what happens if Okie St. loses, in your eyes?

Does PSU not still get picked, if your PSU > Iowa and Big Ten gets two picks theory is valid? By your account, the game is moo. JUST TELL ME WHO TO ROOT FOR!?

by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 25, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

If Oklahoma St loses (and assuming everything else goes according to plan with Florida/Bama taking on Texas in the championship game), then the Fiesta is virtually certain to take a Big Ten team with their replacement (first) pick. So, it simply comes down to “does the Fiesta prefer Iowa or PSU?” and some seem to think they’d go with the Hawkeyes. I don’t think the Big Ten team option falls to the Orange in that situation.

by Laaaaazzz on Nov 25, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

This is amazing

on so many levels.

A plate of bacon to you, sir. And +1 million.

We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.

by psuwxman on Nov 24, 2009 5:38 PM EST reply actions  

Good Lord!

Twitter: @scrappled

"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee

by Run Up The Score on Nov 25, 2009 9:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Iowa does not suck.

You suck.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 24, 2009 5:50 PM EST reply actions  

Go watch an Iowa basketball game

"Wherever you go, Penn State will go with you. You are now a part of her. Her image will be cast in your image. Your reputation will become her reputation."

by noodlebucket on Nov 24, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

They totally led #3 Texas for a minute

Seriously, they did

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 24, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

My over under on Iowa basketball wins...

3. Ugh. Well atleast the wrestling team will win the national championship. Again.

Fuck tOSU

by ajs1122 on Nov 24, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Give us a year or 2

We’ll be winning those NCs. Thank you Cael.

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Nov 25, 2009 8:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Go drive through Iowa

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face

by psupride on Nov 24, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Go drive through Central PA and tell me it's much better

Iowa: cornfields, hog farms
Pennsylvania: cornfields, cow farms, woods

Meh

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 24, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually really like central PA

(But I also like mountain biking and country music)

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Nov 25, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I do too

But I’m saying we’re just a country as they are.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 25, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Nov 25, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

"I doo too"

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 26, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

crap

“I do too”

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 26, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

PA has 2 major cities

or at least 1.5 major cities.

What does Iowa have?

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 29, 2009 2:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Who cares about major cities?

What are you, Pryor?

Get out of here, man.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 29, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Who cares about major cities?

What are you, Pryor?

Get out of here, man.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 30, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Adrian Clayborn drove through Pennsylvania for two hours, ate a sandwich, and sacked Clark again

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 24, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Dammit

"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"

by psuphiman80 on Nov 25, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Not really.

I was cross-eyed and brain-cramped within minutes of trying to follow your info.

Excellent work, excellent effort.

Ever consider getting a job?

J/K!

'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'

by Pete the Streak on Nov 24, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Impressive

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of"

by psu in the w-b on Nov 24, 2009 6:52 PM EST reply actions  

This is a big outlier

Outlier: No style points.

If only the BCS was not heavily influence by tWWL

by psdeuce on Nov 24, 2009 6:55 PM EST reply actions  

I made a similar chart last year

but my problem with the whole entropic/probabilistic methods is that if you “flip the coin” enough time, the answers always converge onto whatever the (usually biased/inaccurate) probabilities were that you input into the system, in which case it is easier, and just as much (if not more) accurate than allowing for the random chance to play in, but then the answers are always boring.

On the other hand, if you allow the random chance to still play a role, then you can get more diverse/interesting answers, but they’re not really any better than just making wild guesses to begin with, you’re just letting the computer make the wild guesses for you.

Either way, definitely an interesting read. My highlights:

Fittingly, it is titled, “Use and Abuse of Information in Sports.” Don’t mind if I do!

Since none of these teams are coached by Charlie Weis, I feel they have what it takes to win against Nobody State.

and of course

Iowa sucks

Oh, one more thing, you said that this all shows how we can statistically hate every team above us, but that’s not so true of TCU, as they don’t affect us, win or lose. Your other example of a team that won’t affect us this way is Pitt, but obviously we don’t need statistics to hate on them.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 24, 2009 6:55 PM EST reply actions  

Not true on TCU.

A TCU loss to a 40-something point underdog like New Mexico would have them tumble under Boise State and they would lose their automatic bid. The 6th, 8th, 9th, and 10th picks would be freed up as the Fiesta, Orange, and Sugar Bowl would have a choice between the Big East champ, the non-BCS qualifier (Boise State), and two at-large teams. TCU may still be eligible for an at-large selection by remaining in the top 14 of the BCS, but it’s debatable that they would be picked over other alternatives.

by Cairo on Nov 25, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I guess as I see it

both TCU and Boise St can (and probably will) make it to the BCS and a Big 10 team will still go as an at large (even look at your “one of the more common results” chart). Sure, TCU losing would improve the Big 10’s chances of sending a second team, but I think those chances are already pretty solid. This will still not affect the difference in choice between PSU and Iowa, either.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 25, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

wow

someone needs a hobby.

We have little tranquility but tons of tranquilizers.

by mikeissurreal on Nov 24, 2009 7:17 PM EST reply actions  

he has a hobby

and that hobby is HATEHATEHATEHATEHATE

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 24, 2009 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

lol, mine did pretty well last year, actually

I usually make something akin to this, and let it make my picks for me, then I go back and play favorites/hater and change teams based on that.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 25, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh my sweet lord

I understand there were lots of graphs and confusing words, but I could not find the hate.

A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby

by psu on Nov 24, 2009 7:55 PM EST reply actions  

I miss the hate too. I was hoping to have HATE WEEK: THANKSGIVING rant about the (Detroit) Lions, relatives, travel and much much more.

That said, excellent work. It beats my technique involving a Twister spinner and a bunch of post-its.

by TheK-GunNeedsReloaded on Nov 24, 2009 7:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I think you're supposed to hate the team we're competing with for a BCS bid

But if we’re going to have a hate week for Iowa, we should have a hate week for me.

Cairo, if you don’t mind, I’d like to do hate week for Iowa.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 24, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

hate week next october, mind you

This post is suitable for now.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 24, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

It appears that PSU can’t play TCU. If TCU wins, they’re either in the National Championship, or the Orange Bowl against the ACC champion. If TCU loses, no one is going to select a non-BCS school fresh off a loss to New Mexico.

Personally, I don’t think this is true. If Oklahoma St finishes 10-2 but the Fiesta decides to pick PSU or Iowa as a replacement pick for Texas, I think the Orange takes Ok State instead of TCU. Or at least it is possible. And that leaves the Fiesta to pair PSU/Iowa with TCU. I think this is more likely if the Orange ends up with Georgia Tech as the ACC rep because they don’t travel as well as Clemson and the Orange will want to maximize fans and TV ratings (and will feel like that is more likely with a Big12 team than TCU).

I could be wrong and it wouldn’t shock me to see the Orange take TCU over Oklahoma St, which would pair PSU/Iowa with Oklahoma St in that scenerio (I don’t buy Boise St going anywhere unless there is no other choice for the bowl). But I wouldn’t think that PSU/TCU has no chance of happening.

by Laaaaazzz on Nov 24, 2009 10:49 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah, and?

I’m talking about who the Orange takes with their other slot, the team that will play against Clemson/Georgia Tech. IMHO, if the Fiesta takes one of the Big Ten teams and the Orange is choosing between 12-0 TCU and 10-2 Oklahoma St, I think they take the Cowboys not the Horned Frogs.

by Laaaaazzz on Nov 25, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

It's not impossible, but...

It would require the Orange Bowl selecting Boise State over the Big Ten runner-up, Oklahoma State or TCU with the 8th pick. I don’t think that’s likely.

by Cairo on Nov 25, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

NO, it just requires the Orange Bowl to take Oklahoma St instead of TCU (assuming the Fiesta take PSU/Iowa). Then PSU/Iowa will face TCU in the Fiesta, Cinci/Pitt goes to the Sugar and Boise St is SOL. I’m not certain that the Orange would prefer Oklahoma St over TCU, but I don’t think it’s unlikely either and thus a PSU/TCU matchup is possible.

Boise St needs to root for Oklahoma St to lose to make the BCS IMHO. I don’t see Boise St being chosen over a 10-2 Oklahoma St for an at large spot.

by Laaaaazzz on Nov 25, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's why.
Assumption: An undefeated Boise State will be selected over a 2-loss Big Ten school in the Fiesta Bowl.

Outlier: A 2-loss Big Ten school may be selected over Boise State in the Fiesta Bowl.

This allows for Oklahoma State to be selected over Boise State in the Fiesta Bowl, but it ensures that a 12-0 Boise State will make a BCS Bowl somewhere. I did it for one main reason.

The BCS has recently been hammered in Congress by Orrin Hatch and other politicians for being a violation of anti-trust laws. If Oklahoma State doesn’t get selected, they will likely go to the Cotton Bowl against a premier opponent and get a $3 million payout. The Cap One Bowl payout is north of $4 million. All three of the WAC bowls have $750,000 payouts. If Boise State doesn’t get selected, they would play for a fraction of the money against either a .500 at-large school, a Conference-USA school, or Wyoming. The WAC would get $225,000 instead of approximately $17,500,000 with a BCS representative. This in spite of Boise State going undefeated with a win over a BCS Top 10 school (provided Oregon beats Oregon State). For all of the faults of its conference opposition, what is Boise State supposed to do? They have wanted to join the MWC for years but they don’t want any part of BSU. Additionally, I’m half-surprised BSU even had one quality opponent. In this day and age, I would think that big time schools would want nothing to do with Boise State and instead go with the safe money and schedule a directional school.

The anti-trust accusations against the BCS would be greatly expanded if Boise State were left out of the big bowls. It would be wayyy worse than Utah going to the Sugar Bowl instead of the BCS Bowl. I just think they don’t want the heat of another Congressional investigation. So, in my biased opinion, they’re in. As a result, PSU can’t play TCU.

by Cairo on Nov 25, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

This is really incredible stuff (I though you had a wedding to plan for btw? lol)

But the only fault I saw in this system, and you may have addressed this and I missed it, is BCS greed. Based on records alone, I have no doubt that this is incredibly accurate, but for some reason, I see our chances of a GT vs. PSU Orange bowl being much higher than 16% your results showed.

Also, I’m also not an expert on BCS selection procedure. Do they have to pick the automatic qualifiers w/o auto-tie ins (e.g. the TCUs, BSUs, etc. who meet the criteria, but aren’t BCS conference champions with an auto bid like tOSU, Floribama, and GT/Clemson) before they pick the BCS at-large qualifiers (like PSU, Iowa, Pitt/Cincy, etc.)? Again I think if it is that way, that greed is again a factor, and TCU/Boise doesn’t get picked in the first round of selections because they appear to generate less potential for monetary gain vs. a PSU or Iowa would.

Just curious.

by dawsonPSU10 on Nov 25, 2009 12:55 AM EST reply actions  

Then I factored the BCS pecking order:

1 and 2. National Championship: BCS #1 vs. BCS #2

3 and 4. Rose Bowl: Pac-10 Champion (Oregon or Oregon State) vs. Big Ten Champion 
(Ohio State)

5. Sugar Bowl Pick #1: Replacement pick for SEC champion (in all circumstances except one)

6. Fiesta Bowl Pick #1: BCS at-large

7 and 8. Orange Bowl: ACC Champion vs. BCS at-large

9. Fiesta Bowl Pick #2: BCS at-large

10. Sugar Bowl Pick #2: BCS at-large

That is literally the Fantasy Draft of the BCS. Technically, and correct me if I’m wrong, no team is guaranteed a pick (in the traditional sense), but the BCS crew will pick in this order, and honor the age old affiliations. Ergo, the first at large pick is #6. That’s when things get interesting.

by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 25, 2009 1:14 AM EST up reply actions  

There are guarantees.

The champs of the Big East, BigXII, SEC, Big Ten, ACC, and Pac-10 are guaranteed a slot, plus one (only one) champion from the Mountain West, WAC, Sun Belt, etc. if they are in the top 12 of the BCS rankings. If there are two slots available, and two automatic selections haven’t been picked they MUST be selected. It’s why the Big East champ is always the #10 pick. Even though nobody wants Pitt or Cincinnati since they won’t travel, they have to be picked per the rules.

You are essentially right about the at-large picks in most circumstances. the #6 pick would automatically go to the BigXII champ if Texas loses to A&M or if Nebraska defeats Texas. The #7 pick is guaranteed to go to the ACC champ. The first no-conditions selection would be the #8 pick.

by Cairo on Nov 25, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Giant catfish!

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 25, 2009 9:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Also....

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE

by speedomike on Nov 25, 2009 7:59 AM EST reply actions  

I don't know what any of this means, but I applaud the effort.

Twitter: @scrappled

"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee

by Run Up The Score on Nov 25, 2009 9:04 AM EST reply actions  

My brain hurts

I read an article on SI.com last night (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/ncaa/11/24/bcs-pool.ap/index.html) that says the BCS says that USC, Miami, and LSU still have a shot at a BCS game. I saw that none of these teams are in your charts. I’m assuming/hoping that none of these teams have a real chance in getting in.

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Nov 25, 2009 9:21 AM EST reply actions  

LSU has no chance.

With Florida and Alabama already taken, the SEC has its positions filled. There may be an obscure rule somewhere that allows a third team in extreme circumstances, but it’s doubtful.

USC has a very small shot of making a bowl. The best chance of the three is Miami, which would need Virginia Tech to lose to Virginia. Call it a simplified assumption.

by Cairo on Nov 25, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

LSU has a chance in the sense of “if Bama loses to Auburn and then gets blown out by Florida in the SECC then they might fall below LSU in the rankings and the Sugar might take the local Tigers over the reeling Crimson Tide”. But even if those set of results which seem unlikely come to pass, it’s still likely that Alabam gets chosen over LSU IMHO.

But I guess it’s possible for LSU to get picked and that’s what the SI article is talking about.

by Laaaaazzz on Nov 25, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Excellent fuel for my hate!

Great piece to read before heading to the 570 for some holiday hate. I’ll be dishin’ it out like the gravy on Thanksgiving to my pitt & ND in-laws. Gobble You friggin chodes. Especially after reading today about that turkey Charlie Weis being on a death watch. I might even have to deliver a bag of chips or some mashed potatos with a huge helping of hate to the people from Idaho across the street. Oh yeah! And the neighbors next door are from Texas. I’m just so blessed to be able to hate so much and do it up close and personal on such an occasion.

by penntatefan on Nov 25, 2009 9:30 AM EST reply actions  

One Note

I hate to be the guy who points out a mistake, but Oklahoma is a 9.5 point favorite against Okie St on Friday. That means Okie St is only ~25% likely to win (according to your chart), not the other way around.

I know it seems crazy, but Vegas doesn’t like Okie St very much (and they shouldn’t). Last week’s near miss against Colorado was no fluke without Zac Robinson. He’s likely to play on Friday, but I think it’s fair to say there’s no way of knowing what he’ll be able to do.

by Kunk on Nov 25, 2009 10:43 AM EST reply actions  

Crud.

You’re right. Well, that does change things-admittedly for the better for the Big Ten at-large pick.

by Cairo on Nov 25, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I re-ran the calcs.

Putting Oklahoma State as a 26% chance to defeat Oklahoma instead of a 73% chance.

PSU in
Capital One Bowl – 50.2%
Fiesta Bowl – 25.8%
Orange Bowl – 16.0%
Outback Bowl – 8.0%
Sugar Bowl – < 0.5%

Basically, it infers that our chances of making the Outback bowl are less, and the odds of making the Cap One and Fiesta are slightly better. hoorayz

by Cairo on Nov 25, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Cairo

I just saw this post featured on “Around SBN”. Gradulations.

How long until he’s a mod?

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Nov 25, 2009 10:44 AM EST reply actions  

VIOLENT CAIRO IN HIS WRINGING CHARTS

Hare Krishna,
Hare Krishna,
Krishna Krishna
Hare Hare

What’s left of my brain exploded halfway through.

Did PSU win the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP at the end?

Elizabeth, the only person on earth working at the same job longer than JoePa.

by joefromboalsburg on Nov 25, 2009 11:47 AM EST reply actions  

Hmmm

Wow that’s a lot of work just to tell me it’s between Penn State and Iowa for a BCS bowl which I think we already knew.

by catesinator on Nov 25, 2009 11:51 AM EST reply actions  

not entirely

There’s about a 1/5 chance of neither PSU or Iowa making it if Oklahoma State beats Oklahoma.

by Cairo on Nov 25, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

20%? No way.

A bowl (i.e. the Fiesta) might choose Oklahoma St over Iowa/PSU due to conference affiliation, but there is IMHO about a zero percent chance that Boise St gets chosen over Iowa/PSU as an at large.

by Laaaaazzz on Nov 25, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I just want to see us take something from Iowa

I would love to hear them cry about how unfair it is that PSU gets in a BCS game over them. If we can’t beat them on the field I’ll take a political victory. And the $17 million sounds nice too.

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on Nov 26, 2009 11:40 AM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about the Penn State Nittany Lions.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Ignorance Still Reigns...And I'm Not Letting It Pass
Joe_small
Sanctimonious Hypocrites Can't Diminish the Warmth for Joe Paterno
Psukoolaid_small
BSD Donations to THON in Joe’s Memory.
Joepa1_small
SuePa
Joe_small
Save the seat for JoePa

Recent FanPosts

Img110_small
OT Friday: Celebrity Life
Jessedotsmom_small
Food for Thursday: The Groundhog Day Edition!
Hugh_griffith_small
PSU joining B1G in offering 4-Year Scholarships?
Niceshoes_small
Joe Paterno Apologists' Club guest propagandist - planetrockville from PennLive
Small
Introduction and an epiphany of sorts
Psukoolaid_small
Second open thread for NSD
Small
How O'Brien Can Thrive at Penn State
Small
Failure with Honor
Kool-aid-man__small
tOSU e-mail to prospective students

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SHOP THE BLACK SHOE DIARIES STORE

Gameday Depot University Apparel


Managers

Blog_gang_sign_small Chris Grovich

Powers1_small Kevin Powers

Editors

Zn_avatar_small Mike Pettigano

Img110_small Jeff Junstrom

Authors

Iron_armor_small Galen

New4_good_small Nick Blonde

Turd_ferguson_psu_small Tim Aydin

On_the_way_to_grad_small Kyle_Martin

N53100510_31463067_5584_small Adam Collyer

Aquateen_vol1_mastershake_1__small Ben Jones

Penn_state_mascot_small Peter Gray

Baller_small Eric Gibson