The Times They Are A-Changin'
by BSD on Dec 15, 2009 11:39 AM EST
in Big Ten Conference
496 comments
Come gather 'round people wherever you roam
And admit that the waters around you have grown
And accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth savin'
They you better start swimmin' or you'll sink like a stone
For the times, they are a-changin'
What started out as an off the cuff remark by Wisconsin athletic director Barry Alvarez...
Speaking to Wisconsin's athletic board on Friday, Alvarez, the former longtime Badgers football coach, said the conference already has investigated possibilities for expansion "from all over the country." And though he places no timetable on the search, Alvarez thinks conference commissioner Jim Delany will respond to a group of athletic directors and coaches who want expansion.
"I have a sense he is going to take this year to really be more aggressive about it," Alvarez told the board. "I just think everybody feels [expansion] is the direction to go, coaches and administrators."
Is starting to pick up steam...
Later today, the Big Ten will issue a statement acknowledging that the expansion issue has moved from the back burner to the front burner. Nothing is imminent, but the chances of expansion are stronger now than they were six months ago.
Big Ten expansion is back on the table. Frankly, I think it's past due. If you conducted a poll a year ago of the coaches and athletic directors of the league I think you could have found a slim majority. But for years the talk has been of two players opposing league expansion: Ohio State and Michigan. Today, it sounds like one of those players is on board.
Ohio State's E. Gordon Gee, one of the more powerful presidents in the Big Ten, said Monday that he sees the need for a 12th team in league, which would create a conference championship game like the SEC, Big 12, ACC and others.
"We have to be thoroughly modern and realize the world has moved on, and having a playoff for the Big Ten championship makes sense," Gee told The Columbus Dispatch. "I'm not planting a stake in the ground on that issue, but it's something we now need to tackle."
The biggest opponents of Big Ten expansion have always been Michigan and Ohio State. For years they have feared a Big Ten Championship game would take the focus off of THE GAME as the marquee event of the conference. But Michigan'sfailure to be competitive with the Buckeyes the past few years has already diminished the matchup, and the rest of the conference has suffered as they sit and watch the last three weeks of the college football season unfold from their couches and their teams get leapfrogged in the BCS standings. Ohio State has finally wised up and realized it'stime to move on with or without the Wolverines.
You can expect to see the names start flying around over the next few days and weeks. The Crimson Quarry is already on it. In my opinion, any discussion about Big Ten expansion has to begin and end with one school: Notre Dame.
Some people consider approaching the Irish to be a non-starter. Notre Dame has rebuffed the Big Ten's offers for years. The Irish are proud of their independent status, they have special status in the BCS agreement, they have their own network deal, and they make plenty of money. But if I'm the Notre Dame president and athletic director, I have to ask myself how much longer they can sustain the current model.
Notre Dame has been irrelevant in college football for nearly 20 years. They were a national program back in the 80's, but today there are no kids walking around California wearing Jimmy Clausen jerseys. There are no Joe Montanas or Theismans playing in the NFL and winning Super Bowls. Jerome Bettis was probably the last Notre Dame player to make any kind of impact in the NFL, and he retired a few years ago. Your fanbase is rapidly aging. The only people who are Notre Dame fans today are the old timers who can remember the 80's and the recent alumni who went there. At a small private school, that isn't much.
Sure, Notre Dame makes a lot of money, but how long can they keep that up? They just turned down a bowl invitation because their expenses probably wouldn't cover the costs. They can't count on BCS money every year, or even every other year. And now Comcast is buying NBC. As a guy who has worked for companies that have been bought and sold, I can tell you with each change of ownership comes a new way of doing things. How much longer do you think NBC is going to want to have the exclusive rights to broadcast an average team with a dwindling fan base get blown out by USC and lose to service academies? The only thing national about Notre Dame anymore is the national desire to see them choke and set new lows for Irish futility. NBC might as well offer Syracuse an exclusive contract if that's what they're into. The NBC cash cow will not last forever, but in the Big Ten Notre Dame would enjoy economic security without the pressure of winning ten games every year to avoid massive budget cuts. Heck, if I were Delany I would tell Notre Dame to keep their NBC contract as long as they can and keep all the money for yourself. And when the NBC money runs out we'll include you in the revenue from the Big Ten Network.
Look, I don't want Notre Dame to crumble and fail. I do think college football is more interesting when the Irish are near the top. I miss those epic battles against Penn State in the 80's and 90's. While Notre Dame fans may say they can't give up traditional rivals like USC, Stanford, and Navy, they would quickly pick up new rivals in Penn State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, and Iowa while keeping traditional rivals Michigan, Purdue, and Michigan State.
It's now or never, Notre Dame. The Big Ten can no longer afford to wait, and you cannot sustain yourself on your current path. When Jim Delany calls your office next week, you better pick up the phone.
The line it is drawn, the curse it is cast
The slow one now will later be fast
As the present now will later be past
The order is rapidly fadin'
And the first one now will later be last
For the times, they are a-changin'
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“The biggest opponents of Big Ten expansion have always been Michigan and Ohio State. For years they have feared a Big Ten Championship game would take the focus off of THE GAME as the marquee event of the conference.”
If the site were still like a Red Fox record as opposed to the newer family friendly form, I would have some harsh words to say about the arrogance of these two schools. ESPECIALLY Michigan. "Hey, nobody really cares about your crappy game. There are more teams in the Big Ten than just the teams in Columbus and Ann Arbor." I look forward to expansion and await the arrival of a title game, should be cool.
Delaney even admitted as much
but I think that has a tendency to devalue the season-ending game and have a negative impact (in terms of at-large BCS selection) on your losing team in season-ending games.
from the Chicago Tribune
Silly Paterno,
when is the senile old man going to keep his mouth shut about delusional things like instant replay, conference expansion and a D1 playoff?
Either the man has esp(n) or he actually knows what he’s talking about. it just take time for these stubborn, incredulous youngsters to get over themselves, listen and come on board.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
by rahpsu92 on Dec 15, 2009 11:51 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
How 'bout it
I wonder if he’ll get the credit he’s due, or if it will all go to Alvarez for starting the discussion and Delany for closing the deal.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
No way OSU and UM will get the credit
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Dec 15, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
things that would suck ^ this...
" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009
by BlueWhiteLife on Dec 15, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
He is the picture on the front page
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Dec 15, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
I can still remember how Delany nearly sh*t a brick when Paterno brought it up last year
My how the times have changed (btw Mike, I will +1 any Dylan quote, and this song in particular is so appropriate it’s scary). Joe will not get credit for this. They already told him to shut up about it last year, I really hope he PWNS Delany in some quote in a presser, because he really deserves it, but I expect Joe will be humble about this and not take the jabs he’s sooooo entitled to right now.
by dawsonPSU10 on Dec 15, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
I can totally see him making some comment like
“man, that’s a good idea, why didn’t I think of that” but really, it isn’t like it is his idea. In fact the only thing Joe really brought was the thought of dropping ND and moving on.
Speaking of dropping ND, it is kinda a catch 22. If ND really drops (or I should say “stays at”) the level where they’d lose the NBC deal and be tempted to take the Big 10 deal, well do we really want that Notre Dame team? Might as well get Syracuse if we’re into mediocre teams struggling to make a bowl ;-)
I’d actually like Rutgers, even though, admittedly, I like everyone else thinks ND first. But everyone just remember: Princeton, Harvard, and Yale all used to be the juggernauts of college football.
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 16, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
^this
…and a one!
" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009
by BlueWhiteLife on Dec 15, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Gonna Green Light ya here.
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Dec 15, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
Going back to when Penn State joined, I can’t remember any conversations to the effect of “did you hear we may join the Big Ten”. According to my memory, you woke up one day and the front page of the paper said “Penn State Joins the Big Ten”. It was that sudden.
At the end of the day, it’s not a reality game show. Step One is either, [a] A school approaches the Big Ten and expresses an interest in joining (what Penn State did) or [b] the Big Ten has a meeting to decide they want to pursue another member (like Notre Dame in 1999). Obviously, step one is done in secret.
Step Two would be [a] either the confrence taking or rejecting the team, or [b] the team either accepting or rejecting the confrence. Again, this is clearly done in secret.
I can’t imagine the Big Ten saying “We’re expanding!” and then acting like the Bachleor trying to find a soul mate. I’m real interested to see what this announcement is.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Good points
The thing that is different today is everything is driven by focus groups and polling. They may float a non-commital statement like “We’re looking at it.” to see how the public reacts. If the reaction is generally positive, we may hear some names next week. If it’s negative, Delany will hold a presser saying, “We talked it over and WHAT WERE WE THINKING?!?!?!” and it will be status quo as usual.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
There are no more secrets.
No secret lovers, secret rendevous, secret clubs, or secret dealings. The 16 years since 1993 have been the evolutionary equivalent of several generations if the subject has anything to do with the collection, processing, or dissemination of information. With the plethora of Internet megaphones available to everyone who knows a guy who knows a guys who overheard someone important saying something, I just don’t think the negotiations you described could occur secretly today.
Another interesting effect the current state of the media and the Internet (and the megaphones they provide to people without need for qualification, fact checking, or citing of sources) is that corporate and governmental changes are occuring in response to clamouring from important people and/or large masses of people.
That being said, we’ll probably find out next week that Central Michigan has joined the Big Whatever next week, proving me wrong.
Bacon is almost as great as being a Penn Stater
by NittanyTide on Dec 15, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Good thing Dan LeFevour is gone.
He would’ve dropped a dime on our secondary. And I literally mean 1000 passing yards. In one game.
"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"
That's not totally true
Seeing as the need for secrecy would be pretty intense. Hypothetically, the Big East almost died a few years ago, Rutgers could have approached the Big Ten then and asked if there would be any interest, and if what they might need to do to get in.
The answer would have seemed pretty clear, invest in your infrastructure and come up with a football program, and of course, there are no guarantee’s because we really want Notre Dame.
Five years later, the Big Ten is sick of waiting on Notre Dame, and they’ve got somebody lined up. All they have to do is vote.
I mean, hypothetcially.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
I think you are on the right track.
I think when Joe brought this up before the season, they were waiting for ND one last time. ND declined once again, so Delany put it “on the back burner”. I.e. we are gonna find someone else.
I think they have found someone else and they will be entering the big ten very soon.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
+1 for using
‘evolutionary’, ‘dissemination’, ‘plethora’, and….uh…..oh, yeah: ‘clamoring’.
In a single post, no less.
Thank you, Sir, for that stunning lingual display.
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Dec 15, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
Are you suggesting
He’s a cunning linguist?
"For me the game wasn’t grounded in reality. It was about the uniform you put on that turned you into a warrior. It was about the mythology of the battle, the victory, the defeat, the struggle." - Mike Reid, PSU '69
the downside to all that information overload from everyone with a megaphone
is that very little of it is fact checked. I recall a story on the net a week or so back all about Brett Bielema being considered for the ND job, all as an exercise someone did to see if they could get “credible” sources to cite rumors. It worked.
As it is now, you can’t believe every rumor you read.
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 16, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
This (if this is really what we think it is) is occuring far faster than I thought it would
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 12:02 PM EST reply actions
It is what we thought it is!
And yes, this is quick, relatively speaking. I wonder what kind of interest the other possible joiners have, and whether or not that is forcing ND into some sort of decision. This could be Tiger Woods’ mistress story quick, or it could take time .
"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"
I'm going to guess that the BXI already has a short list of interested candidates.
And from reading some of the Mizzou blogs, they have a feeling they are at the top of that list.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Dec 15, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Absolulely
The Big XII would replace Missouri before they ever played a Big Ten game.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
TCU: Big 12 conference champions by 2011
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure the rest of the Big 12 would love having *another* Texas school
That would be fun to watch.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Not so fast there (sound like Corso)
My sources tell me Arkansas is really lobbying hard to move from the SEC back into a more contiguous league.
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi
Only because they feel like they need to matter again.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Dec 15, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
THAT would be hilarious
Mizzou has already kind of declined a bit over the past couple years, I’d LOVE to see the EPIC PWNING that would go down when they play teams with defenses (NO Illinois does not count)
by dawsonPSU10 on Dec 15, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Via BHGP:
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 12:14 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Uh
I don’t quite understand the caption quotes. Please enlighten me. I’m just assuming there’s a pop culture reference I’m missing.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
would you like to play a game of chess?
Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance
how about global thermonuclear war?
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
I don't understand the quotes either
But I like it anyway.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
WarGames, with Matthew Broderick
Worth a watch if you find yourself bored sometime.
by gumbercules on Dec 15, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
I think I was forced to watch this at least 10 times in my school life
but it’s okay because it’s pretty good.
by PSUisMyHeart on Dec 15, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
I had "WarGames" and "Mr. Mom" on the same Betamax cassette
Sad, true.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Dec 15, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Sweet
Maybe we could trade sometime, I have weird science and half of one of my H.S. football games on a tape (I’m #86).
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
Aren't we all?
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Dec 15, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Notre Dame is the way to go.
I feel that Pittsburgh would be a plausible team. It opens your market to the east and includes a mid western town. Pittsburghers already hate the Ohio pro teams, so rooting against OSU and Michigan should be an easy jump. Pittsburgh has a big airport, and plays in a nice stadium. Maybe playing PSU, OSU, and Michigan would jump attendance there. The academics at Pitt are, as far as I know pretty decent, so this move makes good sense. I just don’t see Notre Dame willingly joining the Big Ten. You might be correct Mike that the times they are a changing but I see Notre Dame being a different Dylan song…
Once upon a time you dressed so fine
You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn’t you?
People’d call, say, “Beware doll, you’re bound to fall”
You thought they were all kiddin’ you
You used to laugh about
Everybody that was hangin’ out
Now you don’t talk so loud
Now you don’t seem so proud
About having to be scrounging for your next meal. !
I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.
BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.
Pittsburgh is great for every reason
except opening up major media revenue. It’s not a new market for the Big Ten. And that point may trump all others, since the each slice of the pie gets a little smaller.
How does Pitt open up a market to the east? They've no more presence in the east than we do.
But the real issue is thus: Pitt wants Big East basketball. Period.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno
I just don’t see Pitt happening. I’m not sure they’re interested in the Big Ten. They’re competing for Big East titles now, and with that comes BCS money. Join the Big Ten and they’ll be fighting Northwestern for the Champ Sports Bowl. And I think they kind of like what the Big East has done for their basketball program.
And on the Big Ten side, I just don’t see Pitt as an attractive partner. They don’t sell out their home games. Pittsburgh isn’t a huge market to begin with, and the Big Ten already has a big slice of it with Penn State. I don’t see what Pitt brings to the table for the Big Ten.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
They’re competing for Big East titles now, and with that comes BCS money.
Although the Big East does have more uneven revenue sharing than the Big Ten, this is totally incorrect. Pitt could win the Big East and go to a BCS bowl and they’ll make a little more than they would going to the Car Care Bowl, but it’s not a huge difference. And it certainly is peanuts to the massively differences in revenues that the Big Ten schools get from their TV deals compared to the Big East.
Pitt would jump to the Big Ten if given the choice, just like any Big East team (well, maybe not ND, but the regular Big East schools) would. The money difference and exposure is just too massive.
Again I will rec any fitting use of Dylan in a quote
but in the Like a Rolling Stone context, isn’t PItt just as bad a “bum” as ND is right now. Sure they’ve had some fair success the past couple of years, but I don’t see them being any different (or more appealing) than ND, and they sure don’t add any marketability to the Big11/12/what the hell are we going to call the conference now.
by dawsonPSU10 on Dec 15, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
Rutgers anyone?
No?
Schiano’s gotten quite a bit out of RU by pulling the “do (instert demand here) or I leave for another school”
and their basketball team hasn’t been relevant since… i don’t even remember. can’t possibly be worse off by joining b10 basketball.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
Eh
What happens if they go 5-7 in their first year? Say goodbye to any fans they earned.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Here's the thing
There is no other “Penn State” to be had. Anybody you pick is going to be flawed in some, possibly many, respects.
Hell, I don’t even like throwing the life preserver to Notre Dame. Does joining the Big Ten really solve any of the problems that Mike mentioned above? I don’t think it does.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
I'm not asking for another Penn State
But frankly, I’d be more interested in Cuse than Rutgers.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Why's that?
Because of basketball? Rutgers gives you an entry to the NYC market….
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
I don't buy that
New York doesn’t care about college football.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
It's coming around, I'm serious
People actually go to Rutgers just to tailgate now. Non students.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
they sure cared about football back when Rutgers had a run at the MNC back in 2006
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 16, 2009 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
They lit the Empire State Building
scarlet and white. Just saying.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
I know. I wasn't being sarcastic.
There was a lot of support in the area for the team that year.
But of course they were all bandwagoners, and since they wouldn’t likely enjoy much success in the Big 10, the “fans” wouldn’t really be around most years.
My perspective could be a bit biased, though, as my step-father (and various other friends/family) is a season ticket holder, and one of the most delusional fans I’ve ever met. He talks about Rutgers more than most of us talk about Penn State. I used to make bets with him about how Rutgers would do in a given year, and he’d confidently predict 7-8 wins, while I would predict 2-4. I never lost. I also know people who work for their football program (man, if only they worked for a program that I would actually care about getting inside info about).
So yeah, I probably heard more about Rutgers than the average fan, and so it skewed my perspective a bit.
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 16, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
They can’t even fill there newly expanded stadium and they have financial issues with their AD.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
But it's all about the Big Ten Network (mostly)
If New York area cable systems put the BTN on the basic cable tier, then we’ll make some serious bucks. (Also, there’s a better chance of Comcast Philly moving it off of their digital tier to their basic tier.)
That's my point
Rutgers doesn’t even fill their stadium what rationale would there be to put Rutgers all over NYC when no one gives a crap. Rutgers is a skid mark on the underpants of CFB. Plus we don’t know the specifics of the deals with the various cable companies or the deal with the BTN and the Big 10. There isn’t much of a guarantee to our knowledge that Rutgers would add that much. Plus they don’t add anything basketball wise.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Dec 16, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously
I doubt that adding Hofstra to the big ten would require Comcast to put the BTN on every TV in NYC
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
by jesse. on Dec 16, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
BOOM HOFSTRA OWNED.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Dec 16, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Like I said...
The man’s on a roll.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 16, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
you'd be surprised, they've always had a pretty vocal following
just not a following that went to games.
but tickets are still pretty cheap and the students are really behind the team, and it’s a pretty young team.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
This cheap?
Sorry, Waxman. Just…can’t….resist…….
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Dec 15, 2009 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
I vote for Rutgers
There are alot of similarities between RU and other Big10 schools. Even though the school is located mostly in urban New Brunswick, it has a very strong agricultural program. It’s a large state university. Academics focused on research. A shiny new addition to the football stadium. Lots of varsity sports teams. And it would hopefully pull some of the NY/NJ TVs away from Jets/Giants/Yankees/Mets/Knicks/Devils…..(eh, probably not)
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"
missouri
and we could change the name of the conference to “the big 12”
Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance
Just keep Missouri in the Big12
and replace the other 11 teams.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
How about
The Big 12 With a Defense Conference?
by dawsonPSU10 on Dec 15, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
So long as that's not tied in with Dreamcast:
a system which was great, but was a complete and utter failure. I’m pretty sure that’s the image were trying avoid at the moment (Thanks once again for all you’ve done Ohio State!)
by dawsonPSU10 on Dec 17, 2009 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
Dreamcast was way ahead of its time
People just weren’t ready for all the tech, plus Sega refused to let third party developers in on the fun. Thus people got tired of playing the same game in different forms.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
Mike and Rambler since my reply won't work here at work here is my post about your responses to me.
I think this clearly lays out what Pitt brings.
University of Pittsburgh
Football: The Panthers have a strong history and have won multiple national championships, but most recently in 1976. The Panthers’ fan support pales in comparison to that of Penn State, but in recent years have been reasonably respectable. It has been a generation since Pitt could legitimately be considered a football power, but the Panthers certainly wouldn’t be a stretch for Big Ten membership in this regard.
Basketball: Historically, Pitt has been an afterthought, but thanks to the accomplishments of former coach Ben Howland and current coach Jamie Dixon, the Panthers have transformed into one of the best programs in the country. In the late 1990s, Pitt tore down its football stadium, became a tenant of the Steelers at then-new Heinz Field, and built a state-of-the-art basketball arena where the football stadium once stood.
US News Ranking: 56 (five current Big Ten members are ranked lower).
AAU member?: Yes.
Fit/Big Ten interest: Pitt, as a large research university within the Big Ten footprint, has much in common with Big Ten schools, and would have been a good fit at any point over the last few decades. Still, the Panthers plow no new ground. The Big Ten, thanks to Penn State, already has a strong presence in Pittsburgh. The Panthers, even during an excellent 2009 season, averaged only 53,000 in attendance at a stadium with a capacity of over 65,000. Would Pitt, plus the addition of a championship game, result in a net revenue gain for the conference? I have my doubts.
Likelihood of interest:I suspect that from a financial perspective, membership would be tough to decline for Pitt. The Big East, however competitive, provides a fraction of the football revenue. In 2007-08, Pitt ranked #61 in Division I-A with $39 million in revenue. Northwestern was last in the Big Ten with $41 million in revenue that year, and Indiana was next-to-last with $56 million, nearly 20 million more than one of the most prominent programs in the Big East. Also, it would be an academic boon for Pitt. The interesting question would be to what degree Jamie Dixon and his East Coast recruiting would play a role. My guess is that Dixon would be opposed, but my further guess is that his opposition wouldn’t be enough.
This was lifted straigth off of http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2009/12/14/1199034/big-ten-exapansion-talk-again
But I think it lays out the options. I don’t think Notre Dame will budge, I don’t see it and I really do not feel that tying yourself down to one university is a good move for the Big Ten, look at all possibilities and weigh the options.
Also I worded myself wrong Rambler, I meant that by adding Pitt you shift the middle of the conference to the east. Plus do not underestimate the pull of Pittsburgh. People identify with that city from all over the country.
I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.
BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.
It’s my opinion that Pitt currently places higher priority on basketball and so Dixon’s opposition would be enough.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Let me be clear on what I said
I don’t think Notre Dame is the only option, but I think they should be the first option. Let’s not rule them out just because they shot down the Big Ten in 1999. That was ten years ago. Ten years of mediocrity for the Irish. The landscape has changed, and they might be open to it now. But they will always be too proud to approach the Big Ten. The Big Ten will have to call them first.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
They have to have somebody in mind.
They can’t just be throwing this open, that would be mass hysteria. Notre Dame may get one more chance, but they have, and I mean have, to have somebody on the hook already.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Never know
ND has a new coach and a new athletic director. They might be open to joining if it means economic security.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
Exactly.
I think they already have a couple invites out.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Dec 15, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think so
I think the league presidents have to get together and vote on it first. Something would have leaked out if that had already happened.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
You'd be surpirsed.
I read a post on here earlier that no one knew you guys would be joining the Big Ten until it happened.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Dec 15, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah but
There were no blogs, message boards, or twitter in 1990. You could do things in private back then.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
That is very true.
Anonymous sources are so easy to come by these days.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Dec 15, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Who said that??
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Dec 15, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
shhhh it was anonymous
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Dec 15, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
Think of it this way
Rutgers would join the Big Ten if offered an invitation is hardly a secret, it’s more of an assumption. I do think that Rutgers could have contacted the Big Ten with regard to membership at some point in the past, as far back as 1990 even, and been told thanks but no thanks.
The thing about the PSU/Big Ten negotations was that there was total agreement between everybody that nothing would be public unless it was a done deal. There wasn’t going to be a vote on Penn State, unless it was a 100% assured that Penn State was going to be granted admission.
Just willy nilly saying we’re going to get some undisclosed other school would be the total opposite of that.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
I have been hearing that Rurgers has recently approached the Big 10!
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi
Agree, that's possibly why
Paterno was handled so gruffly about this topic back at media days. Delaney’s trying to keep things under wraps and here’s Joe soapboxing about expansion.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
I asked by Pitt friend why they wouldn't want to join the B10
He said they would be between Purdue and Northwestern in the pecking order. At least he was being realistic.
Wow, a rational Pitt fan
They’re a dying breed me thinks.
by dawsonPSU10 on Dec 15, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
Hypothetically if ND did join the Big 10 what would the divisions be?
I imagine that Ohio State and Michigan would need to be in the same division to ensure they play every year. If the rest of the divisions are assigned geographically we would be in their division as well. Or would the conference try to split the 4 traditional powers evenly and throw us into a division with Notre Dame?
I think OSU and UM would be in opposite divisions but would still play every year
Just like the SEC does (UF and LSU play every year, Auburn UGA, Tenn and Bama, etc…)
by whiteoutonly on Dec 15, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno
I think they will insist on being in the same division. They will want to keep their end of season game as a big matchup. If they are in different divisions they could play in the regular season and meet up a week later in the championship game making the regular season game worthless.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
What?
So they could play two weeks in a row? Or in September?
Nope, they’ll be on the same side of the ledger.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
I just don't see how else to do it
Either way you split it (north south or east west) it looks like PSU and OSU would be in the same div and their not putting UM, PSU and OSU in the same division
by whiteoutonly on Dec 15, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
UM and tOSU in one division and PSU in the other.
Similar to this.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Dec 15, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Simular, except in that UM is not in the same division with OSU but PSU is
Ocean Breeze Soap: It’s just like taking an ocean cruise, only there’s no boat and you don’t actually go anywhere.
Nice reference
"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
This way
1
Michigan, Ohio State, Illinois, Purdue, Michigan State, Northwestern
2
Penn State, Rutgers, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Indiana
With one protected cross division game per school, this protects every traditional game on the Big Ten schedule.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Yeah
I don’t think they need to get hung up on geography. My God, the Dallas Cowboys are in the NFC East and it wasn’t long ago the Arizona Cardinals were there too. The Big Ten is geographically compact enough it doesn’t really matter.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
Geography
is a total red hering. The key will be preserving all of the traditional games.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
I'd be all right with the
Smythe and Norris Divisions.
The Newman and Seinfeld divisions would be fun.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
Here's an article from The Cleveland Plain Deal about this time last year
I agree with how the author aligned the conferences based on ND joining the B10 at the same time as PSU. I also like how well PSU fared in the mythical B10 Championships: What 16 years of Big Ten Championship games would have looked like
i refuse to play in divisions named after woody and bo
i wouldn’t even want to play in a division named after joepa…
We decide when you hear the snap count...
It was written by a Buckeye fan
So take it what for what it’s worth. Division names aside, the alignment makes sense.
is still don't see michigan and osu splitting
playing twice in one year (if they were to both make it to the champ.) bastardizes the value of the “the game” (or at least what is left to be bastardizeded???).
We decide when you hear the snap count...
What would happen to the Big East if a team bolts for the Big Ten?
Would they start inviting teams like Temple, Buffalo, FIU, FAU, Marshall?
Who cares
But wouldn’t it be poetic justice if they end up begging Temple to come back?
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
If Temple makes it back to the Big East, they'll beat us within a few years
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, I kind of hope they do.
And then never, ever again.
But it would be cool to see them reach that point.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
My guess
They go after Boston College. I hear the Eagles aren’t too happy with their move to the ACC.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
BC would be a great choice
I never included them in my thoughts because they’re located in a state that doesn’t border any other Big Ten state. However, if Delaney and co. are truly looking “all over the country” as Alvarez said they were, then BC becomes a very attractive choice for the Big Ten and for PSU in particular.
Yeah but
I was responding to a question about who the Big East would go after if the Big Ten plucked Pitt, Rutgers, or Syracuse. I don’t think BC is even on the radar for the Big Ten.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
they aren't even eligible
at least according to that “bordering current big-ten state” stipulation
We decide when you hear the snap count...
Big East
If the Big East lost a football team to the Big Ten, they’d probably pick up Memphis or East Carolina (or maybe Central Florida) to join. If they lost ND, it’s an interesting question as to whether they’d bring in an all sports/’football school to help with football scheduling or a non-football school to keep the balance at 8 and 8.
How about WVU
Good geography and fanbase, seems to be decent academics. And they could get back at SCUM/richrod!
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
NO WAY
Academics are way subpar for Big Ten.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
lol, academics.
okay, maybe that was a little harsh.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
No, it really wasn't.
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Dec 15, 2009 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
well, shows what I know
I really just threw them out there for the couch burning
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
right out in front of a bus, no less.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
And the monorail...
can’t forget the monorail. When I think WVU, I think rednecks, couch burning and monrails.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
Like the Indiana guy said
No way they take a Teir 3 school in the Big Ten.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
I think if we rocked the Orange Bowl
EVERYONE will remember it 5 years from now.
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 16, 2009 1:01 AM EST up reply actions
No new TV market either
But seriously, their academics aren’t even close to what the Big Ten wnats.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Here's a scenario...
WVU really wants and more aligns with somebody like the SEC. They have supposedly talked to Delaney about membership in the Big 10. Academically they don’t fit well.
Missouri (or Maryland) fits well because of a big state university, research, graduate school oriented, and good to very good all around sports. I think Pitt has about 1/2 the teams that other Big 10 teams have. However, I think Md. is pretty attached to the hip with the ACC.
So, my bad guess, Big Mo. comes in. Arkansas takes their place in the Big 12. WVU is invited and accepts the SEC opening and the Big East implodes to a lesser football league…losing their auto bid to the BCS, if the BCS stays around. They’ll get Eastern Carolina, Memphis, Central Fl. and or some other irrelevant team.
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi
Really?
Arkansas in the Big 12?
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah... they used to play the Texas teams a lot.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
I'm aware of that
But I can’t see why they’d be interested now.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
I've heard they are not happy with the power structure in the SEC
FL, Ala, Tenn, LSU…they are like Penn State, to an extent, in the Big 10….the little brother to some of the old time Big 10 members.
They just don’t get taken seriously with many of the SEC teams.
I have also heard WVU really wants out of the BE desperately. They want to align with more “all-sports” schools, instead of the Catholic BB schools. They have pitched the SEC, Big 10 and the ACC. I don’t want them in the Big 10 for the academic typ things.
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi
They used to be in the old SWC before it went asplode.
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09
twitter: @princessblueezy
Academically, WVU is a total nonstarter
WVU has a zero percent chance of being offered membership in the Big Ten.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
There are a few teams I think fit the total bill (ranked in order):
1. ND
2. Mizzou
3. Syracuse
4. Rutgers
5. Nebraska
The NY/NJ schools are there in the hopes that NYC will become a college football city, the others are more “realistic” in that they definitely lock down geographical regions (or ND regions) that we don’t already have.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
NYC doesn't need to become a "college football city"
NYC is NYC. It’s the largest TV market in the nation, and a foot into that market would trump anything offered in upstate NY.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
Syracuse is a big NYC draw as well, but its something like USC syndrome from the summer...
Remember the “we don’t care about college football” thing when OSU had 90k at the spring game or whatever? Not sure how the ratings translate in the season, but I always heard the lions share of NYC ratings go to pro sports.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
But what's to compete against on Saturdays?
… hockey? Please.
(Disclaimer: not a hockey fan)
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
Baseball for a bit
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Syracuse is the odd man out on that list
Mizzou, Rutgers, and Nebraska, as well as Maryland and BC, are all flagship schools for their state. Syracuse doesn’t represent the state of New York in the same way. It’s regional university more akin to Pitt. Like Pitt, Syracuse has a heavy basketball focus and, as a result, only occasional success in football (like once a decade, if they’re lucky).
Honestly, I’m guessing Pitt and Syracuse are both far, far down Delaney’s wish list.
If we got rid of the bordering state thing..
VT or UVA would be a good get.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
That's easy
Make WV join VA again.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
So the Big Ten is gonna rearrange the Union to get this expansion done, huh?
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
good call
DON’T GIVE IN TO THE CONFEDERACY, STAY IN THE NORTH.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
Could we make the Southerners
like, maybe, 5/8 of a member?
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Dec 15, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
Nice reference mr jefferson I want a national bank to
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Dec 15, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
Not really
We’ll form the new state of 717 to keep it at 50.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
I was just thinking this
VT may still be settling in, but how does UVA feel about the ACC?
They kinda suck and aren't at all competitive... can't be good for their self-esteem.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
What about the AAU requirement?
how hard would it for ND to become a member of the AAU if they wanted to join the big ten or would the big ten waive that requirement?
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
I can't imagine it would be too hard for ND to get into AAU.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
AAU membership is by invitation only
Of course the 11 Big Ten schools make up about a sixth of the AAU membership (I think the AAU has about 60 members). Consequently, since ND mostly has the stuff the AAU wants, I would think that conference members ought to be able to prevail on the other AAU institutions to issue an invitation.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
Is the religious thing any way an issue for ND joining the AAU?
I thought I heard something about certain research(like stem cell) that the AAU took part in that directly conflict with ND’s religious message.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
I don't know
but that is an interesting thought. The AAU is all about research.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
After further review
there seems to be some fire here. In stiffing around a little, I’ve noticed that the AAU’s only Catholic school, Catholic University of America, left the organization in 2002. Add academic freedom issues (discussion of abortion, birth control, homosexuality, etc.) to religious qualms about some research lines and you might have a deal breaker. I guess it comes down to how instant the CIC would be about AAU membership. My guess is very.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
For ND it would be different
They would bring in enough cash that I’d imagine they’d make some changes. Academics would be a kind of tiebraker for the other schools. I’m sure if ND thought it was time to make a change, the Big 10 would meet them halfway.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
accoridng to rittenberg AAU and bordering a big ten school is not needed
I know consider the source
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Dec 16, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
but rittenberg cites a source
which I believe is someone from the big11
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Thanks
I went looking for that but got distracted.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Dec 16, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
I posted his article in fanposts
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Dec 16, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
I figured it would be easier for popel to find
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Dec 16, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
people
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Dec 16, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Could adding a 12th team end in disaster in some way, or is it all good?
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
Nintendo 12 South, a la last year
Maybe.
As long as our tiebreakers weren’t completely retarded and out of order.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
Nebraska
in my opinion, will be the team they call immediately after Notre Dame. It makes sense geographically for this “midwestern” conference, it makes sense academically, it makes sense monetarily. Nebraska might not want to leave the Big 12 because of the rivalries they have there, but I’m sure the Big 10 would rather go after them than Mizzou.
Mizzou and Illinois have a
longstanding heated (hated) rivalry.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
Pitt
There has been a lot of talk in the last 5 years or so of Pitt becoming a private school and shedding all of their state funding. I don’t know if this would have any impact on the choice.
Really?
I mean I know the PA state gov is kind of reaming “state-related” schools right now, but how would Pitt be able to survive as a private school? Are people seriously going to pay ridiculous levels of tuition to go to Pitt?
by dawsonPSU10 on Dec 15, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I mean they probably would
I still have no clue why someone would pay out of state tuition to go to Pitt or PSU. Unless you are going for a select few majors that the school specializes in, why pay that much unless of course you have that kind of money. I think psu out of state tuition is up near 30,000 now.
I know all of the non academic stuff(sports, “prestige,” alumni base, if you are a legacy, etc) play into it, but how much can that be worth? Maybe its just my frugality.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
Well, you could make the argument that why would anyone go to any private school then, since virtually all of them would cost as much as PSU/Pitt non-state tuition. I mean, maybe it makes sense if you are Harvard or Yale and you are the elite of the elite, but there a lot of private schools that charge $30,000 a year and still get students to go there.
I'll go one better
I don’t think that you can justify paying 70,000 it costs to go to Penn State for four years on in state tuition. Undergraduate education, by and large, is all pretty much the same.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Have to disagree
Where you complete your undergrad studies at has a huge impact on what type of graduate programs will accept you
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
it has some impact
but not nearly the impact of what you did at that undergraduate school. For example, a 4.0 from PSU probably looks better to most graduate schools than a 3.0 from Harvard. And if you’re applying to law school, LSAT scores have way more influence than your undergrad career anyway.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Truth.
You couild keep going even deeper, but the point still stands.
That point was something to the effect of basically no matter the cost(i suppose there is some limit) people will pay to go to school. Particularly big name schools.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
I don’t think that really true at all. There’s a certain threshold of “name” school that is certainly out there and it does make a difference as to getting jobs or going to grad or professional school. Once you get much cheaper than PSU’s in-state tuition (unless you are talking the in-state tuition for flagship schools in other states, which of course wouldn’t pertain to someone eligible for in-state rates at PSU), you’ve basically eliminated most every top tier school.
I’m not saying that there’s not a difference between PSU and Yale (there certainly is). But there’s more of a difference IMHO between Bloomsberg and PSU, especially if you aren’t applying for work or grad school in PA itself or nearby.
I do tend to agree though that a big part of undergrad education is what you make of it.
Paying out of state
You do it for the love of PSU. A good friend of mine is a freshman this year, his parents live in Houston (his Dad and my parents went to PSU together back in the 70s so we grew up seeing each other relatively often despite the distance), I know his parents don’t get back to PSU (or the North for that matter) as much as they want to, but he really loved it at PSU, and I think that’s what it ultimately came down to. Yeah it’s ridiculous OOS tuition, but if you know you’re going to love where you’re going, and leave with a top notch education and degree, I’d say it’s worth it (especially if it gives his parents an excuse to come back up for a game or get together more often).
But get this, a friend of my sister’s brother (from back home in the burbs of Philly) for some reason decided to go to Nebraska of all places for school and his parents said OOS tuition was actually cheaper than PSU’s IN STATE tuition, and he wasn’t even on a scholarship! (btw, he apparently hated it at Nebraska and is now transferring to UDel)
A couple of ways
1] Pitt, like Penn State, recieves less than 10% of it’s yearly operating budget from the state. Frankly, for what the state kicks in, they are entirely too nosy.
2] Pitt’s academic endowment is larger than Penn State’s.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Pitt might like the Big 10
for better bowl tie-ins, as we can see this year, the 3rd place team in the Big 10 has a way better bowl game than the 3rd place team in the Big East. To me the only realistic teams are ND, Pitt, and Mizzou. Like Crimson Quarry stated, I also believe that accessing the NYC market is overrated, it’s not a college football city. All the other teams are too strongly identified with the Big East or ACC. I personally hate the idea of Notre Dame, let them go to the Big East with their basketball team.
New York City is better than any city on the table in terms of eyes on the TV
even if it isn’t a “college football city.”
Even if you get every person in wherever the hell Mizzou is to watch, is that even as many people as a 15th of NYC’s total DMA viewership?
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
UPDATE
According to si.com, the announcement will take place at 3:00.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Maybe that was confusing
The “statement” that they have been talking about all day, will come out at 3:00.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
no, it was clear...
still, holy crap
usually we have at least a few days to prepare for this kind of stuff
They probably already have the team signing contracts if they're announcing this.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
They DEFINITELY won't announce it
But the fact that they’re doing this tells me someone has agreed, they’re just working out the details.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
WHY IS IT
that when Barry Alverez opens his mouth, the entire conference gets silent and listens but when Joe Paterno says anything people just say “Dude, ur old”
by AdamShell on Dec 15, 2009 1:16 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Don't for a second think
That Joe didn’t have some effect. I’m sure his public bashing of Delaney had a lot to do with whatever happens behind close doors.
Yeah Alvarez seems more to be about timing
It’s not a coincidence there is a PC today about expansion. Joe is way out in front of this thing. When he talks people listen.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
I don't think this is a
Joe Paterno is old thing. I think it’s the fact that there were now two well-respected members hammering at this idea. That’s how it goes with most things – if it’s just one voice of power, it’ll get mentioned but put aside. Add a second/third/more voices, then the issue becomes harder to ignore. No reason to pull the “no respect” card at this point.
"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
For some unknown reason
in women’s basketball, Penn State deferred playing next year’s game vs. Pitt. Could that have anything to do with this? e.g. next year’s game will have to be scheduled as a conference game rather than a non-conference game?
Link?
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
from the Post-Gazette
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09347/1020633-175.stm
Berenato and her team likely won’t get a chance to play here again after Penn State decided to “defer” the series for a year. After the game, she made it abundantly clear it wasn’t by Pitt’s choice.
I was gonna make a Rene Portland joke, but...no.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW
There is nothing, I mean nothing, in the water in Pittsburgh with respect to Pitt joining the Big Ten.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
So...like it was in 1990?
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
I'm remembering some cryptic comment
at a presser by JoePa in the not-to-distant past to the effect of “maybe we need to play Pitt or somebody”. Also Wannstache was quoted I think this year as saying something like “We need to play Penn State.” Not that this necessarily means anything.
I love this
it further drives home the point that “THEY NEED US, WE DON’T NEED THEM”. Yeah, an in state rivalry would be fine, but I think we’ve been just fine w/o them.
by dawsonPSU10 on Dec 15, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
I think you’re adding you’re own imagined emphasis there.
Substitute “need” for “ought” (because in this case I’m confident Wanny meant them to be synonyms) if you want to know how most of Pitt community feels about PSU.
Well, the other thing that's imagined
is the pipe dream that Paterno is going to retire and this series is going to be renewed. Because it’s not.
Every Pitt coach is almost required to make some sort of snide comment about how they have been slighted by Penn State in one way or the other.
It’s a financial thing, it’s always been a finacial thing, and it’s always going to be a financial thing. It’s not personal. At all. Deal with the financial issue, and maybe the game comes back, but Pitt’s subborn refusal to admit that is not about Joe Paterno feeling slighted is nonsensically counterproductive.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Right. We offered Pitt the exact same deal we have offered Syracuse, BC and Rutgers and those schools accepted, but Pitt rejected it. I don’t see how that’s evidence of bias against Pitt as much as just a scheduling philosophy for PSU.
The only schools we’ve scheduled for longer than 2 games (other than Pitt in 1997-2000, one must point out) has been Temple, which has amounted to a 5 home/2 away deal. Is Pitt interested in doing such a deal?
Whoa; I seriously doubt that Pitt was offered the same deal as Syracuse. Link or proof?
I never understood how the “financial argument” holds any water in the same world where Georgia/Georgia Tech and Iowa/Iowa State games happen every year.
Wow, making quizzes is hard work, dude.
Two more games that noone else outside of their respective states cares about. Throw in the civil war, and you’d understand exactly how much the PSU and the rest of the Big 10 really wants Pitt.
Deus nobiscum, quis contra?
by chocochuck02 on Dec 16, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Keeping to form, I’d rather see Penn/Penn State.
Deus nobiscum, quis contra?
by chocochuck02 on Dec 16, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think the Big Ten wants Pitt
At all. Pitt auditioned to join the conference whenever University of Chicago left in the 40s; Michigan State was chosen instead. The Big Ten all about large research, land-grant, flagship programs with strong football traditions and numbers. Preserving that image and expanding the Big Ten Network is most important to them, not giving Penn State a rival.
GASP
Did you just poo poo the PSU/MSU rivalry?
Deus nobiscum, quis contra?
by chocochuck02 on Dec 16, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Not at all
…I know it’s a cherished and storied rivalry.
I just wanted to show that after the University of Chicago left, the Big Ten was not interested in urban universities, regardless of their academic or athletic qualifications.
Conversely
When the Big East rejected Penn State in favor of Miami, they showed they weren’t interested in rural universities, regardless of their academic or athletic qualifications. How did that “Da U” thing turn out, anyways?
Deus nobiscum, quis contra?
by chocochuck02 on Dec 16, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Certainly
The Big East likes to think of themselves as an urban league so they got the best independent that fit that mold. Miami won a national championship as a Big East member; so I’d say it worked out pretty well.
Whoa; I seriously doubt that Pitt was offered the same deal as Syracuse. Link or proof?
Not a problem:
Penn State Athletic Director Tim Curley said Penn State would be willing to bring Pitt back onto the schedule, but only for a two-game series.
Pitt officials have balked at that, saying the rivalry should be played every season.
Curley said the reason Penn State and Pitt broke off discussions the last time around was because Pitt wanted something more than a two-year deal, while Penn State was and is married to the two-game contract.
So, again, PSU is willing to treat Pitt just as fairly as they treated all the other old eastern rivals like Cuse, BC and Rutgers. Pitt wants more and is only willing to sign a long term deal. That’s entirely within Pitt’s rights if they want, but don’t act like PSU simply refuses to play Pitt.
look, you are completely ignoring the Pitt side of things
JoePa is old, and cranky, and is mad at Pitt for the whole Eastern Conference thing, and Pitt is better than those other eastern rivals, and waah waaah waaaaaah
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 17, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I'm gonna be so pissed if they announce it's BSU.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
how about devry?
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
Univ. of Phoenix Fightin' Onlines?
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Dec 15, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
i work for an Online campus of a University
and students always ask me if we have football teams.
"They say in Happy Valley that if God wasn’t a Penn State fan, why is the sky blue and white?" Fortt said. "Who am I to argue with God?"
Do you ever say yes,
and then spit out a ridiculous record, team name and resume?
People are oh so gullible.
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Dec 16, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, did you hear that my kid got into DeVry?
What did he have to do? Open the door?
by Bob Sacamano on Dec 16, 2009 8:22 AM EST up reply actions
How about BGSU?
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Well
Now it’s time for an hour and a half of twiddling thumbs.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
otherwise known as work
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
laundry.
damn room closes at 3pm in my building.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
negaunee, michigan
i moved to the upper peninsula.
i live in low-income housing made primarily for old people.
it’s baller.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
Sweeeeeet
Sailing on all that water will certainly pass the time
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
I've been playing FFVII a lot recently
I’m still a sucker for the old skool classics.
"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
you need to drop that V for it to really be old school
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 16, 2009 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
I realized the other day
that VII is already over 10 years old. That made me cry a bit inside.
"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Technically
the first FFII that came out in America as FFII was the original FFIV. The original FFII didn’t come here initially due to the length of time it took to create an English version. Square canceled it’s production and instead dubbed the English version of FFIV, FFII in order to not confuse those who played it (the same was done with FFVI, who’s english version was initially called FFIII). Therefore if IcersGuy were to play FFII in English he’d have to be playing the 2003 remake released in the FFI and FFII compilation called FF Origins, and thus it would technically be less old school.
Now, excuse me while I polish my badge.
by PSUisMyHeart on Dec 16, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
how did I know someone was going to call me out on that?
but still, AMERICAN FFII was awesome (aka FFIV…but then he’d have to drop the V again, since no V’s are allowed in “old school”, and he’d then be playing FFI, which was also good)
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 16, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Nonsene
We have another hour and half for wild and unsubstantiated speculation. By the time the announcement comes along (which will invariably be nothing) I’ll have you convinced that the Big Ten adding Notre Dame, annexing the Pac 10, to which it will add Boise State and Utah, and seceeding from the NCAA to form Super League.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Hmm
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
I know this slutty
girl, who banged a relatively famous golfer who is an alumnus of a Pac 10 school and was approched for money by said school to fund an expansion of the schools basketball facilites.
He told her in a moment of weakness.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
by jesse. on Dec 15, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
I TOLD YOU Harbaugh would be back in the Big Ten!
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
I'm interested in this plan
tell me more
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 16, 2009 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
I'm playing NCAA 2010 against future Big 10er...
Temple!
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Ok, here's my theory:
So, the Big Ten wants academics, good football, a new market, and oil money?
Boom:
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 1:29 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
i heard we have a branch campus there.
just outside of Kharj.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
i heard dubai was building a 300,000 seat football stadium
We decide when you hear the snap count...
and yes i know dubai isn't it saudi arabia
it’s in the united emerates of america…something like that
We decide when you hear the snap count...
Back in the 60's, my father took a break from teaching at Penn State ...
to teach at the University of Karachi in Pakistan for 2 years. Maybe there is still some old time connection. :)
Born and raised in the shadow of Mount Nittany
Why only one team, and why so little thought to Basketball?
If they are going to make a splash, they will get more than one.
I hate to say this, but could it be Temple? No football affiliation, and a few B-Ball rivalries that are not so hot any more.
Mizzou and ND/BC/Pitt.
"I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! I invented the piano key necktie, I invented it!" - Mugatu
Temple? No.
We’d prefer a school that actually has a fanbase.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Some PSU fans root for them cuz we feel bad...
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Love rooting for Temple
T FOR TEMPLE U
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
That isn't very coherent
I’m saying odds are Temple is in. They may also be going after the other schools listed. The announcement today may be that the B10 is expanding, without naming the school.
Temple of course has a pretty good Basketball fanbase, and are located in Philly with a proximity to NYC.
"I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! I invented the piano key necktie, I invented it!" - Mugatu
by Captain Hairdo on Dec 15, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Temple
What about academic standards? Their essentially non-existent fan base? Believe me you, I will be the first to root for Temple (I actually went to one of their games this year) but there is absolutely no way that they are the 12th team.
by Bob Sacamano on Dec 15, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Let's say 12th team is added today
when do they start to play? Our schedules are already done for next year
took PSU three years
But my guess is they would come in when current schedule rotation ends.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
according to rittenberg
The Big Ten Conference will explore the possibility of expansion in the next 12 to 18 months, according to a statement the league will release at 4 p.m. ET Tuesday. There will be no press conference to make the announcement.
The league will announce that expansion is now a front-burner issue, though there are no guarantees a 12th member will be added. The Big Ten last expanded in 1989 with Penn State and hasn’t seriously pursued the possibility since 1999, when it had discussions with Notre Dame.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4745381
We decide when you hear the snap count...
i was kinda hoping we at least wouldn't hear anything until the actual statement was released
just reiterates what was mentioned earlier about how you can’t keep secrets (although the way this reads is that they let the media in on the announcement beforehand).
We decide when you hear the snap count...
Sounds like they have agreed to form a committee
Whew, that is ground breaking. Why in the name of god would they have to wait until 3:00 to release that peice of information. Tools.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
This is the lamest
news story I’ve check in on, ever.
Also, no way the BT takes anyone but ND. There is a lot of revenue sharing in the Big Ten, so adding someone who isn’t above average (which is right around MSU-Iowa) in revenue generation means everyone makes less money. Not Missouri or Cinci or ISU or Pitt or Rutgers or anyone else even remotely available except Notre Dame can do this.
I know about your diabolical plan.
But
Adding another teams adds a conference championship game. Figure $5 million in ticket sales and a few more million in the broadcasting rights.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
who would get that game?
you’d obviously first think of ESPN or ABC because of viewership. But would the BTN try and keep it and use it as another bartering chip in expanding market share/availability?
We decide when you hear the snap count...
Seems small in the big picture though
Total share is probably something like $140M, so adding $5-7M to it (not a big deal, but I think this estimate is very high), then dividing by 12 instead of 11 doesn’t seem to constitute a major increase. And adding any of those teams besides ND isn’t going to give us much leverage at the TV contract table. Also remember we aren’t necessarily adding another bowl team, so right away bowl money isn’t necessarily increasing but the number of teams sharing it is.
I know about your diabolical plan.
ACC got 40 million a year in the TV contract for the ACC championship game.
by PSUinBOSSton on Dec 15, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
looked it up
you forgot the second part of the sentence:
As part of the deal, the ACC would earn over $40 million in revenue a year in exchange for the networks’ exclusive right to televise the ACC Championship Game and several so-called “big-name” games
I have no idea what ‘big-name’ games are, but to me that reads like: The ACC got paid $40m/yr for rights to every big game in the conference that is worth putting on TV. Correct me if I’m wrong, I sure could be.
I know about your diabolical plan.
Real number:
The dozen teams will allow the ACC to divide into divisions for football and hold a conference championship game, beginning in 2005. That game is expected to produce about $6 million in extra revenue. A site for the game will be determined later this year, with Jacksonville, Orlando and Charlotte, N.C., considered the leading candidates.
http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/051204aad.html
And I bet they vastly overestimated because when they wrote this they still figured people would show up for the game, when in reality there were quotes this fall that the league actually lost money hosting the game, ie rent and staging costs were greater than ticket revenue.
I know about your diabolical plan.
BTN and georgraphy
That’s why adding a team in a novel area — not a state already covered by the Big Ten — is probably critical if they aren’t getting Notre Dame. Adding a Rutgers or Syracuse or Maryland puts the BTN on basic cable (or at least the basic digital tier) in those heavily populated areas which increases the people with the channel and increases the amount the channel brings in with rights fees. Also, it will help with advertisement sales for the network.
That’s why, IMHO, schools like Cincinnati or Pitt have no shot at all at being invited.
i cincy with a 0% chance now with kelly gone
unless they go out and prove something in the sugar bowl…back to mid-level obscurity for them
We decide when you hear the snap count...
i would imagine that the BTN
is already on the standard tier in Maryland with the number of Big11Ten alumni in the area.
"They say in Happy Valley that if God wasn’t a Penn State fan, why is the sky blue and white?" Fortt said. "Who am I to argue with God?"
BTN
It’s not. Sports tier only (at least on Comcast, the dominant provider).
The way Comcast came to an agree with the BTN — and it’s something that most every cable company has based their agreements on — the BTN is on basic cable throughout the Big Ten states (except in the Philly area where it is on digital cable). Everywhere else, Comcast has the BTN on a sports tier where you have to pay extra for it. By adding a school representing a new state to the conference, in theory the BTN should be shifted from a sports tier to basic cable for all the households there which is a lot of extra money each year.
That’s why the Big Ten really covets the NYC market and all those TVs there. The big question I would have is would Rutgers (which is in NJ but close to NYC) or Syracuse (which is in NY, but far from NYC, kinda how PSU is with Philly) be a stronger argument for putting the channel in wide distribution in NYC proper (and Long Island FWIW). I’m not sure the answer. Similar question goes out for Maryland and Washington, DC.
You don't want DC proper
You want Fairfax, Montgomery, Prince William counties.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Which tails what I said a bit ago about VT or UVA
35+ people from my high school went to both of those schools, and those numbers translate across Fairfax County.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Plus, you get the Baltimore area
although Balt/DC is one CMSA, it’s two TV markets. Not as big as NY/NJ/CT, but a pretty nice consolation prize nonetheless. I think UMD also gets better penetration in those markets than SU or RU gets into NYC.
Agreed
Maryland in my experience is the most covered school in the DC area — Va Tech and UVa get good coverage as well and Georgetown in hoops, but Maryland is the big local school. Plus Maryland brings in a second good sized city with Baltimore. And it’s not like NYC because people in Baltimore (especially) and DC actually watch and follow Maryland to a much higher degree (keep in mind that Baltimore doesn’t have an NBA team and the Wizards in DC kinda suck).
Also, Big Ten school collectively have a crapload of alumni in the DC area. PSU especially, but there’s a lot of folks who went to tOSU, Michigan, Minnesota, etc. I think Big Ten games at Maryland would regularly have a good amount of visiting teams support from locals.
So how does scheduling work with a new conference team?
I mean, football schedules are usually mostly set for years in advance. If you were to actually somehow add another school to the Big Ten by next football season, how would you go about tweaking everyone’s sports schedules? Is it easier than it sounds?
MSNBC.com
puts the likely targest as:
“Short of the Irish, several schools have been bandied about as possibilities as a twelfth: Cincinnati, Missouri, Rutgers, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia and Louisville”
and puts possible divisions as:
East
Michigan
Michigan St.
Ohio St.
Penn St.
Purdue
Indiana
West
Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Northwestern
Wisconsin
(new team)
Personally, I don’t see why you would put us, OSU and MI in the same division. It rules out those three potentially playing in the championship game, which I think is a mistake.
They also seem to give Joe’s past lobbying at least some credit for getting things moving (though they mention Bielema in the same sentence . . . but it’s Joe’s picture that headlines the article).
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/3032773/ns/sports-college_football
"the secret to loving your job is having a hobby that you really despise"
Ugh
That would be a terrible split. It would be like the Big XII north and south. One division loaded while the other sent Missouri to the conference championship game every year.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
You do realize
That Big 12 football is quite successful despite divisional imbalance. ACC football, which set up wacky non-georgraphic divisions to try and protect rivalries and set up a big-time championship game, really sucks (I mean, on average its teams aren’t bad, but they haven’t had a great team since they raided the Big East).
The Big 12 is also traditionally much better at football than the ACC
so that probably plays a factor in the popularity of the ACC and its championship game, and inter and intra divisional rivalries
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 16, 2009 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
Back in the 80s...
The ACC champion routinely played in bowl games like the All-American Bowl and the Peach Bowl and some other horrible game I don’t remember.
So, tradition galore.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 16, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
The Big 12 was designed to protect rivalries too
Specifically, Texas/Oklahoma and ColoradoNebraska.
Keep in mind, when the league was formed, the north was the far superior division, Oklahoma had a some dark years of their own in the 1990’s and Texas was nothing special.
The flaw in their division alignment came from the presumption that Colorado, who traditionally sucks, but had enjoyed a pretty good run of success was ready to play with the big boys full time. Oh, and they thought that Nebraska would be an invicible force for all time. Which, of course, they aren’t.
What the ACC did is exactly the opposite, they put Miami in Florida State in different divisions for [a] competive balance, and [b] to set up a championship game that people would be interested in. But at the same time, in order to avoid them playing each other twice in a month, they moved the game to the begining of the season, figuring if they did wind up playing in the championship game, the fact that it was a rematch wouldn’t be a big deal.
Apply that to the Big Ten, Mich./OSU will insist on playing every year, and playing on the last week of the season. The other 9 (10) schools cannot allow them to dictate a set of circumstances where they would periodically play in back to back weeks. Hell, there would be some circumstances, where they would play the last game of the season knowing they would play in back to back weeks regardless of who won.
The only way Michigan and Ohio State can be in seperate Big Ten divisions is if they are willing to move their litte mutual jerk off session to October at the latest. Which is fine be me, because then we’d get one of the two on the last week of the season from there on out.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
by jesse. on Dec 16, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Two follow up points
1 Would moving Ohio State and Michigan to the first Saturday in October really be the end of the world? I propose no. Specifically because the result would end up being Penn State/Ohio State and Michigan/Michigan State on the last week of the season. Wisconsin/Iowa too more than likely. There is a really good chance that there is at least one B10CG play in game there.
2 I know some people might take issue with me calling the Michigan/Ohio State game “a little jerk of session”. You are correct, it is an enormous jerk off session.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
by jesse. on Dec 16, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Oh, he's on a roll
Rec’d again.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 16, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
outstanding
+1
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
Pure Awesomeness
Guaranteed Rec here.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Dec 16, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Two more follow up points.
1 It is generally considered a long shot that Nebraska would leave the Big 12, but why exactly? They have no history with the Texas schools and they don’t play them. of the seven Big Eight schools, only two, Colorado and Oklahoma are any manner of a “traditional rivalry”, but Oklahoma is now in the south so they don’t play every year. Colorado was never their rival, the Big Eight just moved that game to the end of the season because they were the best two teams in the league. The other five schools might as well be Maryland, Syracuse, and Rutgers to them, ie teams they lose to once every 40 years.
Academically, the Big Ten is a huge step up in prestige from the Big 12. Atheltically, what do they lose? Nebraska makes more sense in this discussion than I intially thought.
2 Last time I checked, there are 11 teams in the Big Ten, and they each get one vote. I can see why the preservation of Ohio State/Michigan is a big deal to those two schools, but for the life of me I can’t see why anybody else cares. Assuming that the league votes to expand, I doubt that OSU and Michigan are going to be in any position to dictate the terms of the new league structure to benefit only them. Especially if the 12th team is Nebraska or Notre Dame.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Followup point two
Jim Delany
You know what’s weird? We go on and on and on to prove to people that we’re not the Big Two and the Little Nine, when our commissioner basically believes that very thing.
That's gross.
Open thread for the statement?
"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"
uh, that would guarantee Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State play each other every year
kinda important don’t you think?
by Mr. Rosewater on Dec 15, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
idk
i think they’d rather have like, psu v. iowa and michigan v. jaOSU be in the last week before the championship game (meaning psu and iowa in one division, michigan and jaOSU in another). most years this would probably be the deciding game for each division on who they send to the champ game. every coupld years wiscy and/or MSU get there…but i think in the best interests of the conference (i.e money) at least one of those 4 teams is in the the champ. game, or else you get the equivalent awesomeness of GT v. clemson (i.e. no awesomeness).
We decide when you hear the snap count...
NOT IOWA!!!!
That means we’ll NEVER play for the championship!!!
So sez Bad Rambler
by Mr. Rosewater on Dec 15, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Wisky is usually better than Iowa
Also, whoever we bring in cough ND cough would be the “expected” team to compete with the top 3 now.
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 16, 2009 1:35 AM EST up reply actions
Wisky usually better than Iowa since when?
I was born in 1975, and Iowa is 25-8-1 against them. And five of those loses came at the end of the Hayden Fry-Kirk Ferentz transition.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Dec 16, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
Wisconsin had some good years in the 1950s and 60s, but they’re historically average to below-average.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 16, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the back-up Rambler.
Wisconsin under Alverez had some pretty good teams, and its looking like BB will field some really competitive teams.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Dec 16, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
well, since the late 80s
Wisconsin has historically been above Iowa. If you are gonna diss Wisconsin, then you are gonna have to diss Iowa even more.
And if we really wanna go “historic” win %
Wisconsin: 603-462-53 (46th in the nation)
Iowa: 568-509-39 (61st in the nation)
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 17, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Iowa has more Big Ten titles in the last 20 years and in this last decade
There. That’s the most important metric.
"Jeff Brooks....OHHHH! haHA!" - Gus Johnson
by ReadingRambler on Dec 17, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Your math is interesting
1990-2009 (last 20 years)
Iowa: 3 (though Iowa does have 2 in the last decade, so that part was “correct”), 1990 (8-4), 2002 (11-2), 2004 (10-2)
Wisconsin: 3, 1993 (10-1-1), 1998 (11-1), 1999 (10-2)
Appearances in Rose Bowl (general indicator of “true” Big 10 Champion):
Iowa: 1
Wisconsin: 3
I know you are an Iowa homer, but I’m just not going to believe that Iowa is a superior program to Wisconsin. This year? Sure. But generally when I think of the pecking order of Big 10 teams in football it goes like this:
OSU/Michigan
PSU/Wisky
Iowa/MSU
Purdue/Minny
Illinois/Northwestern/Indiana
Probably no coincidence that this correlates well with winning % over the past 20 years (except that Northwestern is actually above Minny, but they’re also Northwestern)
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 17, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
Wisconsin has been better than Iowa since we joined the Big Ten, I would think, which is the time frame most PSU fans started paying attention to the Big Ten. Most don’t realize how mediocre or even bad Wisconsin was most of the time prior.
that was the general timeframe I was using
Iowa 1993-2008: 108-83-1, 43rd in the nation.
Wisconsin 1993-2008: 135-62-4, 17th in the nation
Wisky is also better this decade, etc.
I’m not trying to say that 30 years ago Iowa wasn’t better, but in my history of following Big 10 football, Wisconsin has always been better than Iowa (and I wasn’t trying to go by head to head record, just overall record)
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 17, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Um, no
Not as important as preventing the Big 12 situation. Just make PSU-OSU a cross-divison rivalry.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Right, the SEC and ACC both have one team in the other division that is played every year and the other 5 teams are rotated through.
And, actually, the SEC used to have it so there was 2 cross-division rivals that were fixed, but dropped that since teams would only play the other 4 interdivision teams only 2 times over 8 years.
Who is to say they wouldn't
Whatever the division allignment is, it’s safe to assume there will continue to be “protected” intra-division games, not to mention just regular old intra-division games Penn State & Ohio State would likely remain one.
Penn State and Michigan already don’t play every year, while we’d play less in a division format that splits us up, I don’t think that it would be a big deal.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Notre Dame
With Notre Dame it is all about the money. The B10 needs to play hard ball, join now or prohibit B10 teams from scheduling them. Between the lack of quality opponents locally, travel expenses to continue to play the Big Least, and finally NBC being purchased by Comcast, Notre Dames days as a football independent should be numbered.
Eh
I’m not a fan of twisting arms to get a school to join the conference. I don’t see how that would work out for the parties involved long term.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
well they've got at least til 2015 on NBC
so in the short term, they don’t have much to worry about. basically it comes down to; can brian kelly turn around this program in 4-5 years and become a consistent BCS contender (meaning AT THE LEAST every other year). if not and the big ten decides to wait another couple years, i could see ND being ready to make a move.
We decide when you hear the snap count...
The NBC contract continues for a while, but already ND makes less money from TV than every single Big Ten school. And that gap is going to widen as the BTN becomes more profitable.
There’s no reason that ND can’t join the Big Ten and keep the current NBC deal until it expires and then join into the Big Ten TV deal (and higher revenues) come 2015. PSU home games were governed by the old CFA contract their first year or two in the Big Ten instead of the Big Ten deal.
i dont think thats true at all
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/sports/ncaafootball/20sandomir.html?_r=1
The traveling home game will give NBC eight Fighting Irish broadcasts a season and push its payments — which are never publicly disclosed but are believed to provide Notre Dame with much more TV cash than any other football program — much higher than the current deal, which will end in 2010.
i realize it says the total is never publicly disclosed…but those kind of statements are never really made without some “unofficial” info.
We decide when you hear the snap count...
I’ve seen reports that peg Notre Dame’s TV money from NBC in the $8-9M a year range. They also get some money from the Big East for basketball TV but it’s peanuts.
Big Ten schools share something in the realm of $16-18M a year each now from all their TV deals. SEC schools are in the same ballpark.
I don’t think it’s likely that the secret NBC payouts come close.
11 teams SHARE $18M means they get like 1.4M...
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Why Not?
Notre Dame has been stiff arming the BCS for years!
The answer:
If it’s not That Team from South Bend, then the only way to go is probably Mizzou. I explain why here, but the idea is Mizzou as the 12th team, and North-South divisions, where you would play each divisional rival every year, have one protected cross-divisional rival, and rotate playing 2 of the other 5 cross-divisional teams each year.
North: Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Michigan, Michigan State
South: Mizzou, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, OSU, PSU
Cross-divisional protected rivals: Michigan-OSU, Mizzou-Iowa, Northwestern-Illinois, PSU-MSU, and some combo of Wisconsin/Minnesota v. Purdue/Indiana (I’d go Wisky-IU, Minny-Purdue)
This plan saves ALL of the current protected Big Ten rivalries EXCEPT Purdue-Northwestern (and no Northwestern fan or Purdue fan will care…PU will love getting Illinois every year, and NU will be thrilled making Wisky and Iowa annual rivals), and makes a lot if not most of the “trophy” games annual events. Mizzou gets its two most natural Big Ten rivals every year (Iowa and Illinois), as well, and their is some balance in the conference by dividing up OSU-Michigan-PSU.
You will not split up Michigan and Ohio State.
Period.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
You don't.
You make them protected cross-divisional rivals. As long as OSU and Michigan plays every year (which the plan I outlined allows and in fact requires), you’re golden.
No you're not
Not at all. Ohio State and Michigan only want to play once, that’s all there is to it. I remember people on both sides arguing against a rematch. Partly because Ohio State won, partly because THE GAME is supposed to be holy, and a rematch ruins that for them.
There is absolutely no way you could convince them otherwise.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
this is what i was thinking
it would be bad for them to play multiple times a year and it would be horrible for the conference.
"They say in Happy Valley that if God wasn’t a Penn State fan, why is the sky blue and white?" Fortt said. "Who am I to argue with God?"
I know
I am already sick of them playing even once a year. Can we put them in separate divisions, and “accidentally” misfile the paperwork so they don’t even get to play each other every year? And then just make sure we never let whichever one is in our division to win, so they can’t play the other in the championship game?
That would make me happy.
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 16, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
But I don't care about stupid Missouri
I want a team that is interesting to play.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
Yeah, like Rutgers or Syracuse!
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Oh
So you want Texas? I don’t think that’s happening.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
You know
Obviously Texas sounds stupid. And far fetched, kind of like Alice in Wonderland is far fetched.
But google it. It’s something that the Texas people have periodically discussed, going so far as claim that they seriously considered joining the Big Ten when the SWC disolved in 1993. Obviously, they alwasy come back around to, well, it’s stupid. But it’s not that they’ve never considered it.
I was suprised too.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Obviously it didn't exactly go in our favor last year with tOSU
but I would really be interested to see Texas play in a strong defensive conference and see how they do. We’d finally be able to dispell the N12 superiority debate, which is complete crap to begin with.
by dawsonPSU10 on Dec 15, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
And you guys thought that IcersGuy dude was kidding
when he said he’d be building the football program here at Marquette while he was at grad school here. We’ll see you in 2013. WOO!
Oh, wow...
"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Oh, for God's sake
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Listen IcersGuy
This is supposed to be an honor. I’ll let you get away with it just once, but there has to be a process for this.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
What?
I’ll get to bring him out once, maybe twice a decade?
"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Do you know how boring it is during the off-season?
I need something to do.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
There is a troll approval system?
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Dec 15, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Just to ask
Why is Missu even an option? What are they bringing to the table?
I know about your diabolical plan.
Bacon
"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Historically mediocre football team, a usually decent basketball team, not particularly large fanbase, (presumably) entry into St. Louis market
Frankly, I think the Big Ten probably already has some footprint in St. Louis.
I know nothing about Missouri as a research school.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
And a certain amount of meh
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
Supposedly...
Mizzou has a decent journalism school. Not that that matters at all.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 15, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
ESPN employs people with "journalist" tendencies?
I don’t believe you.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Natural rivalry with NW!
That’s great, I guess.
I’d rather have Pitt.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Cuse, jNW...
and Mizzou are supposedly the three best.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 15, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Why would I talk to someone from..
Ohio U?
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 15, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
forgot the sarcasm button
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 15, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
You know who I would like to see in the B10, but doesn't have a football team?
Georgetown. The DC market would be huge.
I've thought this before as well...
But the lack of FB really kills them.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
maybe IcersGuy and start one there too
by Mr. Rosewater on Dec 15, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
final conf standings:
Final Standings
Team PL All
H.Cross 5-1 9-3
Colgate 4-2 9-2
Lafayette 4-2 8-3
Lehigh 4-2 4-7
Fordham 2-4 5-6
Bucknell 2-4 4-7
G’town 0-6 0-11
Also, Gtown isn’t really that big of a draw in the city, most people here don’t care.
I know about your diabolical plan.
You mean football, or the university?
Basketball’s a big deal.
by Mr. Rosewater on Dec 15, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see them ever..
leaving the Big East. Maybe ‘Cuse would leave if the upside was worth it, but not G’Town.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 15, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
I'd really like to see Harvard
they Ivy league blows; they make more sense in the big11…
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
How does Hah-vud stack up academically?
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Dec 16, 2009 6:45 AM EST up reply actions
G'Town...
I know, but they are a B-ball school and they would view a move from the Big East to the Big Ten as a step down.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 15, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
It has everything
money, academics, TV market…just no football tradition
by Mr. Rosewater on Dec 15, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
If that's the TV market you want...
don’t you go for Maryland?
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 15, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
ummmmm
not really…its a small, east coast jesuit school that is an academic powerhouse in public policy and foreign relations, not a state school that’s good at some combination of engineering, agriculture, natural sciences, i.e. money-intensive research.
There’s already a conference for small, east coast schools that love hoops…and g-town is happily a charter member.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
then why don't we go after stanford
they’ve got money, academics, a tv market…and a decent football tradition! give me a break
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Sure
But only if they fire their current coach and bring the old man back.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
DC
Um, that’s why you invite Maryland — to bring in DC (and Baltimore).
Not quite as good academically as Georgetown but more in character with the Big Ten (flagship public school, good research). And they actually already have football.
Maryland is also an AAU member
and have always seemed a bit of an outcast in the ACC despite having been there forever.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
ESPN College Football Live
Has a segment coming up on the B10
"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"
Rittenberg had a call in.
Said B10 is “exploring expansion” and it would take 12 to 18 months for “research.”
Now the in studio “heads” are discussing teams. Some guys just said TCU so I stopped listening.
"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"
Let me say, that won't and maybe shouldn't happen
However, I would be totally down for adding a major non BCS squad if it were possible. Tcu, Utah, Boise, BYU. Just because I think it is neat and no other reason.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
This article on BR was good for a couple laughs
my favorite points it tries to make is that texas will be able to sell their 4,000 away game ticket allotment. is that even an issue?
i think it also doesn’t address the issue of; why on earth would texas want to leave a conference it basically pwns?
We decide when you hear the snap count...
i think it also doesn’t address the issue of; why on earth would texas want to leave a conference it basically pwns?
Money and academics.
I don’t see it, but that would be the reasons. There’s more money to be had in the Big Ten than in the Big 12 (though not a huge gap). The TV deal for the Big Ten does allow for more national broadcasts as well. But the big rationale would academics, as Texas is a great school and very similar to Big Ten schools, but is in a conference with a lot of inferior academic institutions. Texas would love to be in the CIC.
Don’t see it happening.
i can't remember
do conferences split the total bowl game payouts?
We decide when you hear the snap count...
oops
in addition to the above:
if not, texas is giving up being an almost yearly BCS team (i.e. $17 million) to have to compete against teams with defenses. i know that is just football.
also, i can’t see the actual state of texas being too happy with them ditching teams like a&m, tech, and baylor. i wouldn’t be surprised if the state limited funding to UT…not to mention i almost guarantee you would see a drop in applications and alumni donations (whatever system they may have down there).
We decide when you hear the snap count...
The Big10 splitis it evenly
Other conferences might not. I’m pretty sure the BE doesn’t but I’m not sure about the rest.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
I believe ONLY the BXI does.
I’ve read grumbling over at Rock M Nation about the Big 12 not sharing evenly.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Dec 16, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Different conference are different. The Big Ten and ACC split revenues evenly and I believe the SEC does as well. I have no idea about the Pac-10. The Big East and Big 12 have sliding scales where payouts are higher for teams that make better bowls or are on TV more, etc. I believe the Big 12’s scale is more pronounced than the Big East’s (i.e. the haves in the Big 12 make much more than the have nots there).
That said, the Big Ten simply makes more money overall than the Big 12 and has a far better TV deal (not only in terms of money, but also the coverage).
This is the proverbial
They just want everyone to shut up and pretend there’s progress: unless ND budges there will be none. Delany wants ND, and only ND, and w/out ND he’ll never convince UM and jaOSU anyway. There’s simply no other school that makes even near the geographic, historic, or academic sense.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
Thanks, Debbie.
How nice of you to show up.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
Statement:
Dec. 15, 2009
The Big Ten Council of Presidents/Chancellors (COP/C) discussed the future of the Big Ten Conference at its winter meetings on Dec. 6 in Park Ridge, Illinois. The following statement is issued by the Big Ten office on behalf of the COP/C.
Penn State joined the Big Ten Conference in June of 1990 and its addition has been an unqualified success. In 1993, 1998 and 2003 the COP/C, in coordination with the commissioner’s office, reviewed the issue of conference structure and expansion. The COP/C believes that the timing is right for the conference to once again conduct a thorough evaluation of options for conference structure and expansion. As a result, the commissioner was asked to provide recommendations for consideration by the COP/C over the next 12 to 18 months.
The COP/C understands that speculation about the conference is ongoing. The COP/C has asked the conference office to obtain, to the extent possible, information necessary to construct preliminary options and recommendations without engaging in formal discussions with leadership of other institutions. If and when such discussions become necessary the COP/C has instructed Commissioner James E. Delany to inform the Chair of the COP/C, Michigan State University President Lou Anna K. Simon, and then to notify the commissioner of the affected conference(s). Only after these notices have occurred will the Big Ten engage in formal expansion discussions with other institutions. This process will allow the Big Ten to evaluate options, while respecting peer conferences and their member institutions. No action by the COP/C is expected in the near term. No interim statements will be made by the Big Ten or the COP/C until after the COP/C receives the commissioner’s recommendations and the COP/C determines next steps, if any, in this area.
Straight from BigTen.Org
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
Unless this is old and I'm just retarded.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
Like a young man coming in for a quickie I feel so unsatisfied...
one rec for first person to guess the movie
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
Pay the man his money
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
by spakajewia on Dec 15, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought that was Rounders?
Except Teddy KGB said it like “que-wicky” and “un-saties-fied”
by PaOhWi on Dec 15, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was thinking the exact same thing.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Dec 15, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
yes it was - didn't know how to spell it that way though
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
It takes 12-18 months for the WOPR to finish picking a school
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
42
"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
A completely ordinary number, a number not just divisible by two but also six and seven. In fact it’s the sort of number that you could, without any fear, introduce to your parents
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
by psu on Dec 15, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sleeper team in this conversation...
UNIVERSITY OF RHODE ISLAND.
The Big 10 wants the lucrative New England market, and URI is centrally located.
Centrally located in the very southeast corner of new england?
by PSUinBOSSton on Dec 15, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, Coventry, RI calls itself the "Center of New England"
because, I guess, it is right off I-95 between CT and Boston. Screw VT, NH and ME!
Yeah, I have no idea either.
by Nittany Lawyer on Dec 15, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
notre dame and big ten
i just signed up to tell you to go f yourself! you really think southern cal is the same level competition as pen st? nd’s been playing usc since the 20s, do you really think they’ll give that up for the chance to play penn state and iowa? please, you have 2 decent teams with any name recognition (ohio st and mich) and we’re already playing one every year. also, 1 of the 2 big name schools has been in the same crapper nd has been in and there’s no end in sight with dick rod. no thank you moron but nice job of selling your crappy article
by Q B on Dec 15, 2009 4:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
OH AND I ALMOST FORGOT
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
yes children should be seen and not heard. OR not read in this case
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
Wow.
Now that is how you make a point. Tell me, when does your term on the Board of Regents and the University of Notre Dame expire?
Seriously brother, this post has it all, spelling, grammar, name-calling, the works. Truly, the only better gold is on the helmets of your beloved Irish. I pray sir that you will be patient though, I’m sure soon technology will permit you to hawk loogies into cyber-space, and then your level of discourse will increase ten fold.
You’ve made a proud impression for your University today. Stand tall. You, you, troll among men (and women).
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
What would stop you from playing USC?
"the secret to loving your job is having a hobby that you really despise"
Well if you actually went to ND,
which I highly doubt, ND wouldn’t have the academic requirements to join the big ten anyway so I wouldn’t worry about it if I were you.
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
YES I'M SURE GIVING UP THE CHANCE TO PLAY WASHINGTON STATE AND NEVADA IS QUITE DEVASTATING
BUT HEY AT LEAST YOU CAN KEEP PURDUE, MICHIGAN AND MSU ON THE SCHEDULE.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
Very classy
A profanity laced tirade complete with spelling and grammar mistakes. If you had actually gone to Notre Dame, I would say you represent your school poorly, sir.
Have fun on your continued slide into irrelevance. It can’t be long until Army is beating you on a regular basis as well.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
you lost to Navy, dude
don’t talk about levels of competition when you’re losing to Navy.
by Mr. Rosewater on Dec 15, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
and UConn. Oh, and that Michigan team that's going nowhere under "dick rod"
"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Don't forget the Cuse coached by Gerg
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Dec 15, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I've heard this argument before
On Purdue blogs. “PURDUE IS NOT OUR RIVAL. USC IS. PURDUE HAS NO NATIONAL RIVALS.”
Then Notre Dame, you know, loses to Purdue.
In all seriousness, do we really want these jackasses in our conference?
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Cute
Makes my spelling look fantastic. People wonder why I abhor ND
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Dec 15, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
Rec'd
There is nothing, nothing more self-important than a ND fan. Especially ND fans who never attended ND, as I suspect this fine individual has never even set foot on ND’s campus.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
I can't help but thinking the NBC/Comcast merger precipitated the renewed interest in expansion.
With the NBC/Comcast merger, we’ll be down to four conglomerates: ABC/ESPN, NBC/Comcast, Fox/BTN, & CBS (). ESPN gets the BCS Championship after this year and will own the broadcast rights to practically every bowl game.
If the B10 gets ND, it basically takes Comcast/NBC out of the players and makes the BTN/Fox relationship a solid #2. I just feel like ESPN has been hating on the B10 ever since they partnered with Fox to create the BTN and this is a way for the B10 to affirm it’s place in the national perception.
Say what you want about Delany, but that guy knows his stuff when it comes to dealing with the networks. This could be a big time power move.
I would like to thank the Phillies and the Big 10
For giving me something to take my mind off of finals and carry me into some crappy bowl games. I LOVE SPORTS WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
HALLELUJAH
HOLY S***
WHERES THE TYLENOL
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
Yeah these 2 stories flying around have my head spinning
Not good for finals concentration
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
About Pitt
Pittsburgh is a top 25 TV market in the US. And to say the city is dominated by PSU’ers is a lie.
Lots of people saying Dixon wouldn’t want them leave such a great hoops conference. Not so sure that’s true — while the BE is a great hoops conference, it might hurt Pitt more than it helps. Each year after falling from the tournament (both BE and NCAA), the murmurs start about how the team gets too beat up in conference play and doesn’t ever have enough to last late into the tourney.
Don’t be so quick to assume Dixon would shoot the idea down.
Pitt gets lots of love from ESPN
Pitt plays almost constant top 15-20 teams in Georgetown, Cuse, UConn, Louisville, and WVU. And most importantly, Pitt (who gets many of their recruits out of NY) gets to play in Madison Square Garden on national TV every year. Big Ten basketball is improving, but I don’t think Pitt could get a better deal than what they have now.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 15, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
Big Ten basketball improving?
Wasn’t Michigan St in the championship game this past year having beaten Louisville and UConn on their way there?
Why is it that people think that B10 basketball is some kind of doormat and the Big E is some kind of powerhouse? Go back and look at the teams that made the final 4 this decade. You’ll find the B10 is tied with the ACC for first with 9 teams. Big East is towards bottom.
by catesinator on Dec 16, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying we were a doormat
But the conference is getting more and more talent than we’ve seen in years.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 16, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think it is more that the conference is competitive almost throughout the 16 teams
whereas the Big 10 is about 2 good teams, 2 or 3 more decent teams, and then a bunch of mediocre teams.
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 16, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
That kinda sounds like the Big East to me
Look at that league last year: good teams in Pitt, UConn, and L’Ville, decent teams in Syracuse, Nova. Mediocre team in Georgetown. Providence, DePaul, St. Johns? That league has way too many teams.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 16, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
People talk about how good the Big East is in hoops, but ignore that they have 16 teams, basically 25-50% more teams than other conferences. So, yeah, they might have an extra elite or good team than other conferences, but they also have extra crappy teams at the bottom. South Florida, Rutgers and Depaul were all awful last year, basically equivalent to Indiana.
dude
I didn’t read any comments yet but
While Notre Dame fans may say they can’t give up traditional rivals like USC, Stanford, and Navy, they would quickly pick up new rivals in Penn State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, and Iowa while keeping traditional rivals Michigan, Purdue, and Michigan State.
the only thing I can think of is that the Irish have more traditional rivals in the B10 than we do!!! That’s funny.
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
Merger, actually
Here’s where I think the rumored expansion ends up:
Big 10 merges with Big East, and maybe Notre Dame … end up with 20 teams.
2 divisions ..
1 is the old big10 + ND
1 is the old big east + PSU
On championship week, not only would you have a championship game, but from each division, #1 vs #1, #2 vs #2, etc…. One team left out — a tournament!
In most seasons the winners of each division or at least of one division would be undefeated going into the “tournament” and the winner would be very likely to get into the national championship game. Certainly the #1 game winner and either the #1 loser or #2 winner would make BCS.
If successful, other connfereces might do the same thing (ACC+SEC), (Pac10 + Big12), (MAC + Big West) …
Now going into the BCS you have 4 tournament champions. If you also add a plus-one game after the bowls, you’ve got a real national champion.
And the rest of the bowls are still fine …
And the tournament weekends will make a lot of money for everybody, even the bad schools.
And Joe Pa gets to see the big east of his dreams AND a playfoff is his lifetime … so when this takes effect in 2020 , he’ll probably retire!
by rdz on Dec 15, 2009 10:12 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think I love you...
And what am I so afraid of? Sry. Born in the 1970s, but not early enough to remember the Partridge family.
Just because I'm an occasional to frequent troll, doesn't mean I lack a heart or don't have a point. Rocky Top Talk blog ban: I did it for teh lulz.
There are only 8 conference games
Notre Dame can still play Navy, BC, Southern Cal, and Stanford every year they want to. Something tells me the Irish would quickly decide Navy is the only rivalry then have to have.
by GwinnettGamecock on Dec 15, 2009 11:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
What about WVU?
Has anyone mentioned West Virginia?
1. State School
2. Part of the Big East, so I imagine it would be easy to convince them to join.
3. They are “west” of State College so it wouldn’t be an eastward expansion, which some big tenners are against.
4. DickRod’s alma mater and previous employer. heheh
COUCHES
I mean they burn them, if that isn’t awesome than I don’ t know. But CLEARLY they are not up to academic par. See my suggestion 3/4 of the way up this thread.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
Yes, someone already mentioned WVU
The Big Ten would never even consider them and their academics.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 16, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
They don't bring enough to the table to overcome their academics
They are pretty far away from all the Big 10 schools
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Dec 16, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Also, not really a big market to enter into.
I don’t think WV has any tv markets in the top 100.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
they have way more than 100
they are all broken sitting in their yards next to their couches and broken down cars.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
ahahahhaha stereotypes
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 16, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
That's Alabama, dude
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 16, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
In Alabama
the big screen TV is inside the shack-like house and hooked up to the huge satellite dish
which is outside next to the car up on cinder-blocks.
just to emphasize ur point
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Dec 16, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
you lost me with this
Notre Dame has been irrelevant in college football for nearly 20 years.
If that was actually the case, then the Big 10 shouldn’t want Notre Dame any more than they’d want another irrelevant program. Moreover, this severely overstates the point. Yea, the last national title was in 1988. The Irish were also highly ranked through the mid-1990s, including being ranked #1 for a large portion of 1993. Sure, there’s been a number of bad Irish teams in the 2000s, but you lose credibility with the irrelevant tag.
Jerome Bettis was probably the last Notre Dame player to make any kind of impact in the NFL, and he retired a few years ago.
I don’t know what your standard is for making an impact, but this is severely overstating the point. Justin Tuck is making an impact on the NFL, and has for a number of years. Anthony Fasano is making an impact for the Dolphins. John Carlson is making an impact for the Seahawks. etc.
Your fanbase is rapidly aging. The only people who are Notre Dame fans today are the old timers who can remember the 80’s and the recent alumni who went there. At a small private school, that isn’t much.
Aside from a number of unsupported assumptions, this again raises the point: why would the Big 10 want this school? Apparently, the only way to have a young fanbase is to be in a conference, which explains the booming number of young Iowa State fans. I guess the ratings for the two recent ND-PSU games were dismal. I guess there were probably only 65,000 at Beaver Stadium for the 2007 game, which also explains why it was broadcast on ESPNU.
Werd
Overstating points has become a standard device of the modern anti-Irish demagoguery. I suppose we have Fat Charlie and his rare combination of arrogance and incompetence to blame. And yet, the Irish brand remains so strong that opponents still can’t seem to see far enough around their age-old hate to recognize fundamental contradictions, that the continued reliance on ancient distastes and this kind of lazy shared labeling actually perpetuate what might otherwise be allowed to fade, given our performance on the field.
Irrelevant. Harrumph.
Next year, baby, next year.
God, I despise you
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 16, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Nice Harrumph.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
Is there a difference between irrelevant, and not relevant for anything accomplished recently? The Big Ten wants Notre Dame because for whatever reason, you have a following well beyond the pale of what a niche catholic school in the middle of Indiana should have.
Justin Tuck, Anthony Fasano and John Carlson…only one horseman short I suppose. The point, and it’s a good one, is that there aren’t any guys in the NFL that are really capturing imaginations.
Rapidly aging? What percentage of Notre Dame fans are alumni? It has to be comically small. College football is a whole lot more accessable now that it was 30, 20 or even 10 years ago. More and more people go to college, and more and more local teams are competive. Hell, 10 years ago if you were catholic and in Idaho, you were a Notre Dame fan, because your alma matter, Boise State, stunk. It’s like that everywhere.
Notre Dame is a national program, but it’s a fading one. How far it fades may depend a whole lot on how much longer you folks keep pounding your cheasts yelling “we’re still great!”.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Or how loud the opposition continues to trumpet
our ‘irrelevance’
Next year, baby, next year.
Sorry, Jtot
You can’t top NDJerry90. You just can’t.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 16, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
If ND does join the B10 I can't wait to invite him over
I’ll sell tickets and everything.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
He'll probably pretend to be a Purdue fan or something
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 16, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
That would make his head explode
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
capturing imaginations? really?
that’s like 3 guys… maybe 5
how many Florida players are capturing imaginations in the NFL? how many Penn State players are capturing imaginations in the NFL? I don’t understand how this is somehow an important issue.
Notre Dame is a national program, but it’s a fading one. How far it fades may depend a whole lot on how much longer you folks keep pounding your cheasts yelling "we’re still great!".
where did I say that? I disputed the “been irrelevant for 20 years” claim
by Will McDonald on Dec 16, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Imagination
One difference you’re forgetting is Notre Dame has to attract fans. Penn State, Florida, Ohio State etc. have a pretty foolproof way of doing it….huge undergraduate enrollments. It’s one thing to have a nice competitive college football team when you have 150,000 members in your alumni association, it’s still another when you are a geographically and ideologically isolated private school, that depends not on being good, but by selling the illusion that you’re the greatest thing ever.
Simply put, Notre Dame depends not on it’s alumni base for support, but on “subway alumni” otherwise known as bandwagon fans. More and more people are (or at least should be) wondering why the hell they are Notre Dame fans. If they applied for admission they’d get laughed at. If they tried to by tickets, they’d end up in bankruptcy court. And for the last thirty years, they are, at best, a top twenty program. I mean, if I’m getting on a bandwagon, I’m getting on the station in LA, Austin, Tuscaloosa or Gainesville.
When your whole model for developing a fan base is siphoning off fans from other teams, eventually you’re going to have to sell them something better than ghosts and Lou Holtz. Because everybody, and I mean everybody, thinks that guy is insane. He is doing you no favors.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Notre Dame's best days are over...
And their football program is dead. They are the new Florida International of college football. They’ve just deluded themselves into not realizing it.
Just because I'm an occasional to frequent troll, doesn't mean I lack a heart or don't have a point. Rocky Top Talk blog ban: I did it for teh lulz.
I probably wouldn't go that far
but maybe something like “The New Minnesota”
Used to be great, now just middling.
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 17, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
For the most part, I agree with you.
If Notre Dame was irrelevant, their game with Stanford wouldn’t have been primetime.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 17, 2009 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
in an idealistic world
i’d like to think that ESPN/ABC did that to get toby gerhart some more national exposure before the heisman vote.
We decide when you hear the snap count...
Allow me to clarify
When I said “irrelevant”, I mean in terms of competing for national championships. If the best you can do is point back to being ranked #1 in 1993, thank you for proving my point. But that’s not to say Notre Dame doesn’t still bring in big ratings and make a ton of money. Nobody can dispute that. But I think joining the Big Ten would be good for Notre Dame because they wouldn’t have to go to a BCS game every year in order to stay financially stable.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
The best argument for ND joining the Big Televen...
Is that the Big Televen can use another weak, easy team to pad their schedule. Weis wasn’t the reason Notre Dame sucked during his tenure. Notre Dame is the reason Notre Dame sucked during Weis’ tenure. Also, “Rudy” is like an evil mutant offspring of “Freddie Got Fingered”, “Gigli”, and “Battlefield: Earth”, and it is the single most insipid and uninspiring “inspirational” movie ever made.
Just because I'm an occasional to frequent troll, doesn't mean I lack a heart or don't have a point. Rocky Top Talk blog ban: I did it for teh lulz.
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