More Expansion Stuff
by Adam Bittner on Dec 18, 2009 11:53 AM EST
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PrintFound a couple of interesting articles over at the Pitt Blather as they pertain to Big Ten Expansion.
The first is brief commentary on the Big Ten expansion.
The Big 11 is doing this because it has to. All for money. It wants more money for a championship game. It wants to be able to push more adoption of the Big 11 network. It has seen the SEC blow them out of the water with money and the more fertile recruiting — which means more money in the bowls and BCS.
It has to worry about the ACC ever getting its football house in order and actually becoming another major factor to the East. Especially as the ACC is only checked on the B-ball side by the Big East. Again, eating into money.
Interesting.
The second article is the one I'm more intrigued by.
I really, really, really don’t look forward to 18+ months of mindless speculation over Big 11 expansion. The amusing thing is that it doesn’t seem my fellow bloggers from Rutgers or Syracuse are that enthusiastic about the matter either.
I’m a cynic and money always trumps all. And no doubt the money of being part of the Big 11 would be too great for any to turn down.
That said, I like the Big East. Yes, it is not a powerhouse football conference, but it is a better fit for Pitt. That said, if the Big East wants to survive it has to act. Sean at Troy Nunes is right, the Big East has to “Grow a F***ing Pair.” They have to stop acting like a b-ball conference and the whole Providence thing is over.
My feelings on this are much the same as when it went down in 2003. If the Big East is to make it and Pitt be a part of it, then the Big East needs to stop the hybrid crap and commit to being a real frickin’ conference. That means jettisoning the b-ball only schools and get to the magic number of 12 teams that compete in the major sports.
He then goes on to talk about what Big East expansion might look like, and proposes adding Villanova, Central Florida, East Carolina, and Charlotte for football.
If that's the best the Big East could counter with, I'm beginning to wonder if it's really such a far-fetched idea for the Big 10 to go for broke and add all three of the Big East teams in hopes of wrecking the Big East football conference to take clear control of the northeast. I know the idea of a 14 team league was quickly shot down here yesterday, but let's think for a second.
Football wise, the Big East is dead. No way it holds on to its BCS status. The Big 10 dominates straight from the midwest to the heart of the eastern metropolis.
Basketball wise, you add two powers in Syracuse and Pitt while taking two away from the Big East. You'd have to think at the very least, the Big 10 jumps onto the Big East/ACC tier.
Sure, there'd be a lot of issues to sort out, but would any of them outweigh taking firm control of the Eastern TV markets and knocking out what's left of the competition on your eastern boarder?
Probably mindless day dreaming but something to think about.
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"adding Villanova, Central Florida, East Carolina, and Charlotte for football"
I totally agree with you here, if we think that the Big East is a joke now, what would we think if it added the above? That’s pathetic.
I don't think the Big East could survive if we picked up a traditional member in Pitt or Syracuse
"Jeff Brooks....OHHHH! haHA!" - Gus Johnson
by ReadingRambler on Dec 18, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
I’m surprised that they are surviving right now, their teams are such a weak afterthought, that truthfully, I wouldn’t want any of them to join the Big Ten. The ideal would be ND, sure, then Nebraska and followed far, far behind by Maryland. The Big East does not do it for me at all, there is nothing appealing about any of their teams and frankly, I think that a random Big East team would only water-down the Big Ten even more than it already is (allegedly, according to the MSM).
by Bob Sacamano on Dec 18, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Maryland?
Whoa horse.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Dec 18, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
One thing
If you added Syracuse, Pitt and Rutgers, in addition to killing the Big East, Big Ten eastern & western divisions get a whole lot easier to manage.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
While this is far fetched
we’ve talked alot about “opening up the NYC market” Syracuse might, Rutgers might, blah, blah, blah. A confrence that had Penn State, Syracuse and Rutgers would be the only college league in that city that anybody cared about.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
Unless you dig St. John's
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Dec 18, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Which nobody does.
I say let's rock the Orange Bowl, because nobody will remember in five years anyway.
I do actually.
My step dad is an alum of St. Johns. I like to keep an eye on them in BBall.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
I've got a friend who goes there.
Cept he’s not really a friend, more like the annoying guy that hangs out with your group of friends that you feel too bad to tell to STFU and go away because they have no other friends so instead you just try to avoid them but it’s damn near impossible because they call and call and call and when you don’t answer they just show up to your place because they think it’s okay and sure you can ignore them and not let them in for 8 hours but then it’s really hard to sneak out and go do stuff because he’s sitting on your front porch which is where your car is and there’s no way to get in it without noticing so you’re pretty much stuck until he gives up. Then you’ve got a few hours of time to do things when businesses are still open before you have to go home and repeat the process the next day.
by PSUisMyHeart on Dec 18, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Whoa, Girl.
You had me after the first sentence. Which was pretty all-inclusive.
The second sentence was just icing.
Nice rant. +1 for emotion.
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Dec 18, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't be so quick
to dismiss the idea of a 14-team league, after all, if only one team is going to be added, why do you need 12-18 months to decide?
I agree
We took a look at a couple of different 14 and 16 team ideas (since the Big Ten isn’t ruling them out) over at TRE.
http://www.rivalryesq.com/
The quintessential Big Ten smoking room.
by Bama Hawkeye on Dec 18, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
it actually makes more sense to make it 14
and it makes the decision easier
by Mr. Rosewater on Dec 18, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
i.e. 6 divisional games and 2 cross-divisional games
as opposed to 5 and 3, respectively
We decide when you hear the snap count...
If I were adding 3,
it would be Syracuse, Missouri and Nebaska. Or Syracuse, Missouri, and Rutgers. To heck with Pitt.
adding Pitt, along with Syracuse and Rutgers
would “complete” Pennsylvania and New York and New Jersey.
Also, no one has stated this yet: I know the Big Ten wants institutions who can bring money into the conference, but the conference could also add interest into the Pitt, Syracuse, and Rutgers fanbase given that they will play the likes of Ohio St, Michigan, and ahem…PENN STATE.
Notre Dame’s endowments, by the way, are funded via pride. We’ll see how far pride gets them when they start falling from mediocrity.
by Mr. Rosewater on Dec 18, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
You know?
adding Syracuse, Rutgers and UConn would accomplish the same goals, maybe even better, and have the delicious benefit of absolultely f@#king Pitt in ways that Andy Dufrense can’t even imagine.
Beat LSU
by jesse. on Dec 18, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was thinking the same thing sir...
Plus you can begin to penetrate New England…
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Dec 18, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
All of New England?
I’m up for penetrating the cute parts only.
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Dec 18, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
I LOLed at that FYI
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Dec 18, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
The irony of it is
I actually believe that to the extent he could, Paterno would intervne on Pitt’s behalf. Which would probably be even cooler than the death blow to Pitt football.
Beat LSU
If only for selfish reasons.
It’d be the ultimate “I told you so” moment.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Dec 18, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
How is UConn’s academics? I haven’t thought much/at all about them as a possibility. Off the cuff, I picture them being a tad weaker than most Big Ten schools.
Also, don’t know how the Big Ten would feel about the off campus and smallish stadium for football that UConn has (and it’s not off-campus like Pitt, it’s in a different city).
UConn - Academics
UConn is a teir 1 school ranked in the mid 60’s of the the US News Rankings, and is one of the top 25 public schools in the country. It is not a member of the AAU, although it seems plausible based on what I’ve read that they could be admitted.
Football is certainly not a perfect fit, but that has to be made up for by their basketball program[s]. Further, their football program is better than our basketball program.
Beat LSU
The point here was...
…to wreck the Big East. Adding Nebraska would be nice, as would Mizzou, and on their own, I’d prefer both to Pitt. But if adding Pitt with the other two Big East teams destroys it’s football league, I’d much prefer it to either Big XII team.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Dec 18, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
here's the thing about destroying the Big East
the only reason I would want to do that would be to “get back” at the schools that screwed over Penn State. Granted a lot of it was because of basketball, and a lot of those basketball schools don’t even play 1-A football, but there’s also Pitt and Syracuse, who are the teams I want to see fail with the Big East. Bringing them into the Big 10 hardly accomplishes that.
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 18, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
I think the idea of “destroying” the Big East isn’t some sort of revenge, but a plan to get the Big Ten to be the pre-eminent college conference in the densely populated Northeast where a lot of media coverage comes from. If the Big Ten could replace the Big East as the “local” major conference in addition to having control of the Midwest, that’s a massive chunk of the US population that would follow (on some level) the Big Ten, which is a lot of revenue and exposure.
A woman
is only a woman, but a good Fugi is a smoke !
3 words (plus the)
The eastern football league.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Bill Cosby
If we go with 3 teams
I’d like Syracuse, Boston College, and Pitt. None of the 3 are perfect but all 3 would bring something to the table.
Pitt
1. $2.3 billion endowment
2. good in football
3. good in basketball
4. Academics that are comparable to existing Big Ten schools
5. Adds another rivalry game to the Big Ten which attracts attention to the Big Ten
Boston College
1. $1.3 billion endowment
2. good in football
3. good in basketball
4. bring in the New England market which helps the Big Ten Network
5. adds to recruiting base
6. Academics that are comparable to other Big Ten schools.
Syracuse
1. $1 billion endowment
2. good in basketball
3. potential to be good in football again in the future
4. Adds the New York market(upstate and NYC) to the Big Ten Network
5. adds to the recruiting base
6. Academics are comparable to other Big Ten schools
I think if we could pull off this trifecta it would benefit the Big Ten and the programs listed immensely. Could you imagine how good the Big Ten would be in football and basketball by getting to 14 by including these 3 schools. We’d instantly be considered a superpower once again in both football and basketball.
I don't see BC jumping again though
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Dec 18, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on how comfortable BC feels in the ACC
I’ve never seen them as a good fit for that conference. Their location alone doesn’t make much sense.
by LionsandBear on Dec 18, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
how fertile is the New England football recruiting base?
I imagine NJ is probably as good as most of those states combined. For that reason, plus it totally shores up the NYC market, I still see Rutgers as a better addition than BC.
The argument could be made, though, that some Boston share is better than the improvement to the NYC share we’d see with Rutgers.
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 18, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
NE Football recruiting
Silas Redd and Khari Fortt both from NE….
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
Not really. That's the tri-state area. Nobody counts fairfield county as NE.
They’re all NYC commuters and Yankees/Giants fans etc. The real NE recruiting ground is AWFUL. We don’t want BC. You’re not allowed to tailgate until 3 hours before kickoff, and you have to shut down exactly at kickoff. It’s an awful place to see a game. The town (Newton) hates the school, hates them. It will never be a good road spot unless you want to walk the city and T to the game. Boooooo.
by PSUinBOSSton on Dec 19, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
contracts
don’t these other schools have contracts with their current conferences? or can a team just up and switch?
My question as well.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
plus like 27 months notice requirement.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
well, why don't we ask Miami, VTech, and BC
besides, contracts usually have expiration dates, or just some penalty clause that may be worth it to just pay off.
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 18, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
They can't be overly limiting, just reasonable in geographical/temporal scope.
Otherwise our good friend Mr. Sherman comes along to encourage competition.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
big 14
I was thinking about this last night, and I agree that it’s a very compelling idea. For some reason, I see Pitt, Cuse, and ND…
I’ll touch on ND in a second, but its worth mentioning, as others have, that its much easier to go to 12 than to 14. KHD was making the argument yesterday that it doesn’t make financial sense for the big11 to add another one team besides ND. While I disagree that its that clear, the advantages of going to 14 certainly outweigh the advantages of going to 12. The BTN becomes a pretty major sports TV network all of a sudden, etc.
I also tend to think that if you go to ND with a proposal to make them the member of a 14-team big10 rather than a 12-team big10, you have a stronger case financially to make, and you’re already going to blow-up their hoops conference.
Anyway, thank you Delaney, for giving me the Christmas present of 12-18 months of fantastical speculation. Really, I love it.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
er
meant to say: “it’s much easier to go to 14 than to 12.”
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
I say Slippery Rock.
ESPN always reported their scores in the early 80’s, ala NASCAR’s Dick Trickle.
We’d have instant headline/side story cred.
Slippery Rock!
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Dec 18, 2009 2:25 PM EST reply actions
2 innuendos in one comment section.
+1 sir
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Dec 18, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
If the Big East was to be "killed" in CFB
would the MWC pick up the BCS autobid?
"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
No
The MWC would share it with their new allies in the Sun Belt.
I like all of this “killed” talk. It has a “Rome: Total War” quality to it.
Gauls. I hate Gauls…
"Jeff Brooks....OHHHH! haHA!" - Gus Johnson
by ReadingRambler on Dec 18, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
yes gauls are terrible
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Dec 18, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
Medieval 2: Total War is highly addictive
Being an armchair general is one of the greatest videogame concepts.
I would get Empire: Total War but my crappy computer can’t handle it.
Computers rank me number 1, blame the BCS...it's their fault.-Joe Budden
RE: E:TW
I’m in the same boat.
"Jeff Brooks....OHHHH! haHA!" - Gus Johnson
by ReadingRambler on Dec 19, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
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