The Possibility Of A Big Ten Hockey Conference
In light of yesterday's press release, I sent Brian a quick email asking his opinion of NCAA hockey expansion.
His response was thorough, interesting, and what you might call pessimistic. A taste:
Any program willing to take up the daunting task of starting an expensive sport and balancing the Title IX implications out would face a near-pointless life as an independent. Much cost, no benefit, no expansion.
He goes on from there; for those interested it is a very good read.
Some initial thoughts:
- With the vast majority of Penn State students coming from hockey towns, it wouldn't take much to push the sport into a big deal on campus.
- As much as I would love to see the conference formed, I'm more than appreciative of the fact that hockey operates in a different environment and realize there is quite a lot of value in keeping the regional rivalries that make the sport great. Jumping to a Big Ten conference would empower the already powerful name brand programs and hurt the lesser known ones.
- That being said, there is no reason why you couldn't create a six team BT league that allows for plenty of the traditional non-BT games to be players.
- And going further, I don't see why more schools couldn't copy the Beat Pot format to raise the stakes. That tournament is one the best in sports (IMO) and if there is one thing college athletic programs do to perfections it's copy the traditions of others.
- Unless the other Big Ten schools like the idea of a BT conference as much as Brian and I do, it might be best to prepare for a long road to mediocrity. While the club team's success and regional interest are all very favorable, things are just too crowded right now.
- However, I don't see why the Big Ten would be incapable of doing the same thing the Big East has planned for lacrosse in 2010 (Penn State impact for those who care), a.k.a. make some major moves in order to build stronger leagues as well as make room for the sport to grow.
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A Big Bean Pot
would be great for the B10 teams to get to play each other and it would be a great weekend of hockey. Figuring out the logistics of a 6 team tournament, (partial round robin or something?) would be a bit tricky.
I like the idea that BlueAggie had in the other blog of the three conference allignment.
West:
1. North Dakota
2. Denver
3. Colorado College
4. UAA
5. UAF
6. UNO
7. Air Force
8. Bemidji State (this is a toughie, but I’m out of western teams)
Central:
1. Wisconsin
2. Minnesota
3. St. Cloud
4. Duluth
5. Mankato
6. Mich. Tech
7. NMU
8. LSSU
9. UAH (again, questionable)
10. Notre Dame (again, questionable)
“Eastern:”
1. Michigan
2. MSU
3. Ferris
4. Western Mich.
5. Penn St.
6. Niagara
7. Robert Morris
8. OSU
9. Miami
10. BGSU
The west stays strong and interesting, my beloved St. Cloud gets to stay with the MN teams and PSU gets to play with some closer, well known schools scUM and o$u in particular. The more I look at this the more I like it.
Onward to the Rose Bowl...Again!!!!!
Trapped in the SF Bay area.....nothing like kickoff at 9 am.
by bconway6 on Feb 18, 2009 1:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I thought that was interesting also
although you get a BE basketball problem, where you have so many teams it’s hard to play everyone enough and keep OOC schedules. I definitely like the “East” division a lot.
BSD
by Kevin HD on Feb 18, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True
I was thinking about that and I checked St. Cloud and oSu’s games this year and they will play 36 games total, and of those, 28 are league games leaving 8 non-conference games. They play in the presently 10 team WCHA and 12 team CCHA. Granted they do not play a completely balanced conference schedule, they play some teams four times in two series and others twice in one series.
With the above alignment I would like to see two, maybe four fewer league games to provide some more opportunity for traditional non-conference games (North Dakota-UMN, scUM-o$u etc). The BigEast has what 16 basketball teams?! That’s a pretty large number, contrasted with hockey where the biggest conferences have 12, and under the new alignment they would have 10.
Onward to the Rose Bowl...Again!!!!!
Trapped in the SF Bay area.....nothing like kickoff at 9 am.
by bconway6 on Feb 18, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hockey
I don’t know shit about NCAA hockey, how it’s alligned, or anything else…but…
Something tells me that if Penn State and Illinois decided to play D1-A hockey, that there would be Big Ten hockey, and St. Cloud State or whoever would just have to figure something else out. Would Minnesota and Wisconsin and everybody else be pissed, yeah probably, but I think they would simply have to deal with it.
This strikes me like UConn deciding to play D-1A football, the folks in the Big East simply had to suck it up and let them join the league. That’s the benefit of being in the league.
I think that a decision like this gets made way over the heads of the fans, and that if Penn State is in fact serious about playing hockey, things will fall into place.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Feb 18, 2009 2:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Another option
Something else that might be interesting would be if the Big Ten teams all had mandated games against each other — even if in different conferences - and had a Big Ten “championship” simply based on the results. The Ivy League teams do this in ice hockey - they award an Ivy League “title” even though there is no explicit Ivy League sponsored conference for the sport. Of course, all the teams are in the ECAC which makes things easy to do that.
Anyway, I would think PSU would only move forward with varsity hockey if they had a definite conference to go to once they go there. I don’t think they’d commit a bunch of money and build an arena to host the sport on the hopes that a potential conference would be formed. And given the somewhat volatile nature of conference affiliations in the sport, I don’t know how comfortable they’d be with planning on a new conference, even if contracts are signed and whatnot — too much can change in the years it would take from committing to the sport to actually playing.
by Laaaaazzz on Feb 18, 2009 3:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
I don’t know where that strike line came from but it was unintentional.
by Laaaaazzz on Feb 18, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You used two dashes
anything contained within two dashes gets a strikethrough. Likewise, anything between two asterisks gets bolded.
Now you know.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Feb 18, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and knowing is half the battle?
"I'm driven by greatness" - Derrick Williams
by HookMania on Feb 18, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hockey
Yeah, as stated, it wouldn’t take much to push a PSU hockey team into a very profitable, very successful sport. In terms of the offseason of football, and same physical nature of the sport, I see PSU hockey being capable of being something of enormous potential.
I’m not even a hockey fan, but I’ll tell you what, if PSU has a hockey team I’ll become a hockey fan pretty quickly.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
by millzners on Feb 18, 2009 3:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I grew up in SE PA and hockey was huge. GO FLYERS!! I know that Pittsburgh people are equally passionate about the Pens. And I definitely remember during my years at Penn State how many students watched NHL, wore NHL gear, etc.
I think big league hockey at Penn State would reeally take off.
"The sea was angry that day, my friends." G. Costanza
by NJ lion on Feb 18, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus games are on weekends
Unlike basketball with a random game on Tuesday or Thursday nights, they’re always Friday and Saturday nights. That’s a much easier trip to make for two games than a one game weeknight jaunt.
Onward to the Rose Bowl...Again!!!!!
Trapped in the SF Bay area.....nothing like kickoff at 9 am.
by bconway6 on Feb 18, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
New arena
Getting the new arena will be huge, and not even in terms of just seating. The building of a new facility of this magnitude will definitely grab the attention of everyone. Just like everyone knows where the BJC is, even if most people don’t realize that the basketball teams actually play there.
Right now, the vast majority don’t know where the Ice Pavilion is, let alone know that we actually have an ice rink on campus. A new arena will create that excitement and at the very least an awareness that it actually exists.
From there, it won’t take much to create a regular excitement towards the hockey team.
by IcersGuy on Feb 18, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Title IX
Would love to see Penn State go D-1 in hockey, but how can you add hockey without adding a women’s sport?
How many scholarships are required for D-1?
by CDRS on Feb 18, 2009 4:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Title IX
Nothing says you HAVE to add womens sports to equal things out. Title IX is just a guideline put out by the Nixon administration that says “No person in the United States shall on the basis of sex, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.”
It wasn’t long until people started suing for sexual discrimination in regard to scholastic activities, but the courts had a difficult time applying this standard on a consistent bases. So the Carter administration put out a three prong test as a guideline.
Prong one – Providing athletic opportunities that are substantially proportionate to the student enrollment, OR
Prong two – Demonstrate a continual expansion of athletic opportunities for the underrepresented sex, OR
Prong three – Full and effective accommodation of the interest and ability of underrepresented sex.
All Penn State would have to do is demonstrate compliance with one of these three prongs to avoid losing a lawsuit. Most schools seem to stick to prong one since it is the easiest to comply with and prove in court. You lay out your student enrollment figures, then you lay out your scholarship allocations and if the two are reasonably close you’re fine. Prong two and three are a bit harder to prove compliance, but it can be done.
Obviously, if nobody is complaining about a lack of a female curling team, then there is no issue with prong three. To comply with prong two all you have to do is demonstrate willingness to meet the needs of the oppressed sex.
In all honesty, after typing this the solution hit me. Just give scholarships to the women’s hockey team.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Feb 18, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just give scholarships to the women’s hockey team
Which is what they would have to do, but that makes the sport twice as expensive, and it’s already pretty expensive. You also have to keep in mind how many scholarships the football team eats up. It makes for a pretty substantial disparity, and pretty much mandates that we’d be handing out womens hockey scholarships.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Feb 18, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really though
I can’t imagine PSU having any title ix issues. Can anyone think of a women’s sport we don’t offer? For every men’s sport there is a comparable women’s sport except for football and wrestling. But the women have field hockey. Penn State’s women’s sports are top notch. We compete in every women’s sport offerred on the collegiate level as far as I know. We could form a women’s curling team, but who would they compete against? Canada? Sweden?
So in that sense I think PSU complies with prong three. We accommodate the needs and interests of the underrepresented sex. But add a men’s hockey team may change that as the women would want equal treatment.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Feb 18, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Bemidji State fields a curling team.
Onward to the Rose Bowl...Again!!!!!
Trapped in the SF Bay area.....nothing like kickoff at 9 am.
by bconway6 on Feb 18, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Women's wrestling....
sounds hot!!
"The sea was angry that day, my friends." G. Costanza
by NJ lion on Feb 18, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
though then if I think about any female (non-WWE affiliated) wrestler…and maybe not :-p
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 18, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How much do scholarships actually cost a school to give out?
I mean it isn’t like there’s tangible things that get handed out with a scholarship (I think they get a book allowance…room and board probably?)
I was under the impression that the real costs involved with teams was paying for the coaches/travel/room&board/trainers/medical people/etc.
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 18, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Women's sports
Among NCAA sponsored sports, we do not offer the following women’s sports:
Bowling
Ice Hockey (duh)
Rowing
Water Polo
We also don’t offer Rifle or Skiing, which are co-ed sports (like Fencing is).
On the men’s side, we don’t offer Ice Hockey or Water Polo. Bowling and Rowing are women’s only sports with the NCAA (oddly, IMHO).
Rowing is an interesting one because it is a Big Ten sponsored sport, the only one we don’t participate in. If we wanted to start that up, the conference affiliation would probably make it easy, but where would they compete? I’m not sure which if any of the local waterways near State College could accommodate crew.
I believe a school could also offer a non-NCAA sport if they wanted. I believe tOSU sponsors Synchronized Swimming as a varsity sport for women. I think Maryland just started sponsoring Cheerleading as a sport (and did so for Title IX compliance).
I would imagine, though, that if Men’s Ice Hockey started, you’d get women’s as well.
by Laaaaazzz on Feb 18, 2009 6:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
There's a PSU crew club
I too have no clue where they practice but I’ve seen the T-Shirts so they must exist.
Onward to the Rose Bowl...Again!!!!!
Trapped in the SF Bay area.....nothing like kickoff at 9 am.
by bconway6 on Feb 18, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Joke Shirts?
My sister had a “Omaha Coast Guard” shirt. Perhaps PSU Crew is like that.
by jallotta on Feb 18, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe,
but I remember seeing a lot of them and jackets…if it was a joke it was pretty elaborate.
Onward to the Rose Bowl...Again!!!!!
Trapped in the SF Bay area.....nothing like kickoff at 9 am.
by bconway6 on Feb 18, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Penn State crew
It’s been in existence since 1994. Found this on the web: http://www.clubs.psu.edu/up/psucrew/
The site has an entire history. Apparently they practice at Bald Eagle State Park.
Who knew?
"The sea was angry that day, my friends." G. Costanza
by NJ lion on Feb 18, 2009 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually knew some crew members
though for the life of me I have no idea where they trained (other than the weight room, which was where most of the training was, anyway)
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 18, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sad News
http://blog.collegehockeynews.com/?p=253
"So I made some calls. I called Penn State’s athletic department. I spoke to the athletic director’s office, and a spokesperson in the office of athletic communications. They never heard of the release.
They sent me to their facilities person, Amy Mann. She never heard of it. She said that, if there was such a plan in the works, she definitely would have heard of it.
So I e-mailed the club coach. No response. I called the old club coach, Joe Battista, who now runs the Nittany Lion Club. No response.
So I called the name of the person on the press release. She said she was just someone the architecture company hired to do some marketing. She gave me the number of someone at the company, David Miller. I called him. He didn’t answer. I left a message asking about the release, and wondering what the status and nature of the project was. No response."
by PizzaDelivery on Feb 18, 2009 7:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Let me quell some of the issues
A.) Plans have been created, even if just rough(er) sketches. I am still fairly close to the organization and people within the organization – I have confirmation that they have seen them and do exist. (Again, I have yet to see them, but that may do more with the fact that I only travel to State College on random weekends.)
B.) We do have a donor in line. Not sure who it is, but there is a group out there. That, too, has been confirmed by a few people around the organization.
C.) You’re not going to get in contact with Coach Balboni now – he’s in China as an assistant coach for team USA in that whole World University Games. Plus, he’s horrible at answering email from time to time.
D.) Ditto for JoeBa. His role as Director of the Nittany Lion Club makes him hard to get a hold of. Unless, of course, you’re willing to donate large sums of money. But then again, who isn’t busy for that phone cal?
I’m not saying to bank on it, but the fact that some guy calling/emailing around can’t get all the answers – yeah, I’m less than impressed. I’m not saying that everything is a done deal either – which might be part of the reason he’s not getting full answers either. But there’s a lot more in place than he’s trying to dispel.
by IcersGuy on Feb 18, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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