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Luck! Huh! Good God Y'all. What Is It Good For?

Correlation1_medium

(via xkcd, h/t mgo)

I had a history professor in college, I don't remember her name or even the class she taught, but she would routinely stop her lecture in order to make sure we understood that no one knew how to say things quite like the ancient Greeks. In a constant attempts to get at the meaning of something, she was routinely frustrated with the fact that the English language simply wasn't capable of getting at the truth.

And so I can only imagine if she somehow got herself into computing Points Per Possession for college basketball teams and indulged in the related analysis.

When you take the offensive and defensive PPP stats, you can get a net number that allows for a projected record (Pythagorean Wins, which are also commonly used in baseball).

When you stray from that number, the term "luck" is used to explain the difference. As John Gasaway of Basketball Prospectus explains:

Luck is defined by me as: the difference between a team's actual winning pct. (in-conference, the way I do it) and the winning pct. that would be predicted by that team's per-possession scoring margin. For instance if a team scores one point per possession and gives up one point, they would be predicted to go 9-9 in the Big Ten. If they go 11-7 they're "lucky." If they're 7-11 they're "unlucky." This post by a Georgetown blogger covers a lot of the same ground that I do and has way better graphics.

And here is where things take a horrible and tragic turn. 

Star-divide

Lucky, as we know it, is usually interpreted as a bad thing. It often means you didn't earn it at best and you don't deserve is at worst. So why is this variance called luck? "The English language has failed us this time," Gasaway goes on to say in his email, and he's absolutely right.

Why does any of this matter? Because the stats, and then the word, then get used the wrong way, for the wrong purposes. Big Ten Geeks suggests after the Iowa loss:

The loss by Penn State killed their chances at a #2 or #3 seed in the Big Ten Tournament. Maybe that's for the best, given their efficiency margin. It just doesn't seem right to hand out such a high seed to a team that's actually been outscored by its opponents in conference play.

Now I'm operating under the assumption that this is partly said in jest; BTG did a fantastic job covering the basketball season, often with keen observations, and so I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and dismiss the idea that they don't think Penn State would have earned a 2 seed with an Iowa win because their overall point total.

But to pick out of the comments for a second, something I hate to do but need to this time in order to illustrate poorly applied logic:

I don't see why everyone is assuming Penn State is in. I agree that 8 teams will be hard to get in and I really think PSU might be the ones left out. Not only am I pretty sure that they are the worst of the 8, but their rating on Pomeroy and RPI confirm my thoughts. I would be happy with 7 teams in the dance. As an Ohio State fan, I'm kind of hoping Penn State loses to Indiana, which would make me less nervous about the Buckeyes getting in. Their non conference schedule was a joke and they happened to catch MSU and Purdue on off nights. They also have a ton of close wins and are high up in the "luck" factor on Pomeroy. Great job (as usual) of pointing out that Penn State was outscored in conference play. That statistic is extremely telling.

This couldn't be more backwards. You play to win the games, as somebody famously said, not to look pretty doing it. This recent trend in both college football and basketball to selectively pull out stats to enhance or discount the actual result on the field is, well, to use an old person's word: disturbing. Coaches can no longer be coaches, they have to work as politicians after each game and sell their accomplishments to ill-informed voters and elite committees. It's sad, really.

I love more telling stats because they allow for enhanced in-game strategy as well as a better understanding of "what happened", but I don't understand the concept that they should be included in the standings, that they are 'telling' from a legitimacy point of view, or that ranking low in highly correlated but still flawed numbers means your wins are legitimate.

Gasaway gave me a heads up of an email sent to him that he published in his latest column:

Hi, John,

I had a comment concerning the column on "luck."

As far as I understand it, "luck" is the difference between the pythagorean winning percentage and the team's actual winning percentage.

In the business that I work in (economics), I would call that "error," not "luck." Calling it luck presumes the pythagorean percentage is the exact specification for winning.

Thanks!

Ben A.

This is what I've been saying all along: the confusion here arises from the English language, not from the numbers. "Luck" connotes meanings which I do not hold with regard to these teams. Therefore I propose to start calling this phenomenon a team's degree of DeChellis, in honor of the Penn State coach who's had an extremely high degree of DeChellis for two seasons running now.

Though, truth be told, the Nittany Lions actually lost a close game (!) Saturday at Iowa. It looked very strange. I didn't know that was possible.

So not all hope is lost, there are people out there who get it. It's just a matter of filtering out the noise, I guess. Either that or saying forget the whole thing and going back to talking grittiness with Joe Morgan.

0 recs  |  Comment 27 comments |

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Trying to quantify luck/error/Dechellis

We are talking about men throwing a ball towards a hoop, each and every shot has its own percentage chance of going in. This is what makes basketball so exciting and frustrating, Kelley banking a 3 bad, Pringle banking a 3 good. It is a game of chance and error.

 Here is a ranking system that some other college professors came up with, and I cannot understand. But we are ranked 25th, so that’s good. LRMC

We just needed a couple players, a couple people to buy in to the fact and we were able to do it. --A.Q. Shipley

by psu on Mar 10, 2009 9:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think the new kids would say "that's whack"

not sure which english word there fails us more, though, the old person’s “disturbing” or the new kid’s “whack”

I would tend to agree more with the “error” word than the “luck” word (DeChellis is…interesting), but I think that “error” implies “wrong” in a lot of contexts, so perhaps using the more vague “deviation” would be better.

by The JuggerNitt on Mar 10, 2009 9:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Deviation.

Although luck and error both work when you train yourself to ignore the obvious connotations, I think deviation is the best word to describe Pythagorean vs. Actual winning pct. Over the last two years, Penn State’s winning pct. has had the largest deviation from Penn State’s pythagorean winning pct. It doesn’t sound right to say we had the most luck (implying we didn’t truly deserve it) or the most error (implying some kind of mistake in calculating winning pct.?), but the largest deviation from a prediction sounds fair.

by jimbo2psu on Mar 10, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hustle

The correct term should be hustle.

You can hustle for a few extra wins per year.

by DrDetroit on Mar 10, 2009 10:12 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It is a game

Points Per Possession is a useful tool for coaches to help improve a team’s offensive and/or defensive efficiency. It should not be used to compare teams. Each game played is unique. The Big 10 was a highly competitive league this season. The difference between #2 and # 8 is minimal. Two baked 3 point shots by Jake Kelly on OT can make a big difference is this type of league. Also, don’t down play the importance of injuries and illness on a game/season.

fran w.

by fran617 on Mar 10, 2009 10:15 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

LRMC

PSU, you linked to one version of the LRMC which shows PSU 25th but the version that is the best predictor of tournament success has us 66th which supports the arguement that we are a “lucky” team and maybe not deserving of a bid.

Angry Mike

by AngryMike on Mar 10, 2009 10:31 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

let's eliminate luck!

I guess since PSU has been lucky on occasion we should just eliminate them from the discussion. In fact, we should give the Patriots their perfect record and Super Bowl championship from 2008, since the Eli Manning to David Tyree throw was extremely lucky. We should probably also give last year’s Super Bowl to the Cardinals, since Santonio Holmes was lucky to catch that Ben Roethlisberger pass. Then again, the Cardinals were lucky to even be in the Super Bowl in the first place, so maybe they should give the Super Bowl title to their NFC Championship game opponents the Eagles, who were also lucky to be in their position. Actually, let’s eliminate luck altogether and just stop playing the games, we’ll just automatically give championships to teams based on projected stats so we won’t have to let that pesky ol’ luck get in the way.

by EaglesPhan53 on Mar 10, 2009 10:34 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

while we're at it

instead of projected stats, lets just give championships to the pre-season poll #1 team. At least that way the media can finally get it right.

by The JuggerNitt on Mar 10, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stastics like Pythagoreon wins are useful in describing a team and — this is key — being predictive. If someone wanted to make the case that our being outscored bodes poorly in terms of potential future performance, I think they’d have a case. But it’s absurd to me to use such metrics to knock what a team has already actual done and use that against them — if PSU was “lucky” (or hustled more or whatever) into more wins than you’d expect, they should get credit for that. After all, they actually won the games. Isn’t that the point of playing?

by Laaaaazzz on Mar 10, 2009 10:41 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

no no no, you have it all wrong

the point of playing is so that the media can validate their predictions. If the outcome of the game is different than their prediction, then obviously it was a fluke, and should bear no significance on any season or tournament standings.

by The JuggerNitt on Mar 10, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

With the death of the Boston Globe there

is one more media outlet we don’t have to worry about. What is Bob Ryan going to do?

Pretty soon there won’t be any print media and Blogs can be posted as the new enemies of sports.

pinkertonpark.com

by rahpsu92 on Mar 10, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bottom Line – defeat enough good teams and you will be invited to the tournament.

fran w.

by fran617 on Mar 10, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

Your first sentence couldn’t have been written better.

I think a better term, used by the guys at NBAStuffer.com, is “achievement level in terms of wins”. Penn State isn’t lucky, their record just overachieves their play in terms of expected winning %(based on pythag).

http://sportinvestments.blogspot.com

by HolyBuckeye on Mar 10, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"You are what your record says you are."

--
Black Shoe Diaries

"Never. We would never shoot nuclear weapons at Decepticons." -- Gen. Jack Jacobs

by Run Up The Score on Mar 10, 2009 10:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hah,

great signature. Even if the Dow was trading below 2,000???

Sorry, back to the sports. That’s exactly my thought, too…this isn’t football where there is a tiny sample size with minimal connectivity. The record should be allowed to speak for itself in this sport (at least the conference record, where everything is close to equal).

by jimbo2psu on Mar 10, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody can escape the Doom Bunker.

--
Black Shoe Diaries

"Never. We would never shoot nuclear weapons at Decepticons." -- Gen. Jack Jacobs

by Run Up The Score on Mar 10, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is stuff not to get upset about

These are tools used to predict, the guys who make these sites even admit that. They are just for fun usually to make some “unbiased” predictions based strictly on computer numbers and taking the human element out of it. Of course these are proven wrong sometimes, but sometimes they are correct. Kind of like all human predictions.

For instance two years ago the Dolphins were the “unluckiest” team in the NFL. I think Accuscore deemed they “should” have been 6-10, which makes their turnaround much more understandable. This year it was the Packers who went 5-11 and were considered unlucky. Accuscore is saying now do not be suprised if the Packers make the playoffs this coming season.

On the same token, when a team is deemed unlucky, then naturallty some are lucky. If we are indeed a “lucky” team this year, who cares. Let’s prove next year that we don’t need “luck.”

by STU Boy on Mar 10, 2009 11:13 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ESPN had a committee member come in

SO all of their anylysts could do a mock slection and understand the process better.

I guess, last 12 games, wins over top 50 RPI, conference record are the statistics they claim to look at the most, and claim they pay little to no attention to conference affiliation.

If we take these as the most telling factors we should be in. Even if barely, but meh I think the only think stopping us is is a loss to Indiana. Even then it will be close.

"They ain't got the tradition to hold our nuts." - Deon Butler

by Roland86 on Mar 10, 2009 11:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

"luck" is the intrinsic value of a team that can't be measured

I think luck is the intrinsic value that can’t be measured that some teams have and needs to be accounted for when predicting a win or loss. Teams that had “it” in the past were termed “Cinderella” teams.This year,Penn State has some “it” with potential to become a Cinderella team.

by ageing lion on Mar 10, 2009 11:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Winning games is what matters

And Penn State has done that.

Efficiency numbers only matter to the extent that they’re useful for predicting future results. Trying to use them to throw out what actually happened on the court is totally asinine. In the end, ten one-point wins and a 30-point loss is still 10-1. It doesn’t bode well for your chances of winning in the future, but it doesn’t mean you actually went 4-7.

by SpartanDan on Mar 10, 2009 12:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

the confusion here arises from the English language, not from the numbers.

This is the laziest excuse I have ever seen. The confusion here arises from Gasaway’s usage of the English language, not some inherent flaw in it.

by PeteHoliday on Mar 10, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

RPI Top 50

List of teams with more wins vs. the RPI Top 50 than Penn State:

Pitt, Duke, UConn, Oklahoma, Michigan St., Kansas, Louisville, Illinois, Tennessee.

Period. Stop. End of sentence.

"I want to eat some dessert." - Brandon Ware

by The Man with One Black Shoe on Mar 10, 2009 1:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good News!

Depaul upset Cincy meaning Providence will play them next. That win will thus mean nothing, basically meaning they will need to beat Louisville to get in.

by STU Boy on Mar 10, 2009 2:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Also good news

All the small conference tournaments so far have been very chalky with their champions/automatic bids. In all the leagues where the #1 seed was in consideration for the NCAAs, the #1 seed has either won it or choked before the title game ([cough] Creighton [cough] Davidson [cough]), making for far fewer mid-major bubble teams as we head toward Selection Sunday.

Let's Go State!

by Gopher Broke on Mar 10, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Somebody's bubble just burst

Hopefully Cleveland State didn’t take away our berth. But hey, if anyone on the bubble doesn’t get in and wants to whine about it, they really should’ve won a couple more games so that they weren’t in that position. If PSU doesn’t get in, we’ll be able to point to their games vs Rhode Island, vs Temple, @ Wisconsin and @ Iowa as missed opportunities to seal the deal on their own, without leaving it up to the selection committee. That being said, I think PSU is more deserving than most of the other BCS-conference bubble teams that people keep pointing to, like Florida, Miami of Florida or Virginia Tech. 6-8 vs the RPI top 50 should wipe away a cupcake city non-conference schedule, at least I would think it’d count for more than the media seems to be giving us credit for.

Let's Go State!

by Gopher Broke on Mar 10, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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