Fire Tim Curley
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 8:14 PM EDT
159 comments
Ok, let's be honest here, I'm more or less rehashing a debate we've already had, and I realize that, but let's face the facts here. What happened tonight alone is a fireable offense for an athletic director, especially at a place like Penn State. A monkey could run a pretty successful athletic department across the spectrum if it had the money to throw at it Curley does, so, I really don't give him much credit for the success in those areas. I give the credit to Joe Paterno who built the football team into the cash cow it is, so that those other teams have the resources they need to be successful.
Tim Curley's job is to put the athletic teams in the best position to succeed. Thanks to Joe Paterno, he doesn't have to worry about the other sports, because all he needs to do is give them money, and generally, they'll do well. Basketball and football are a different story, and Curley has NOT put our teams, especially the basketball team this season, in a position to succeed.
Doug Gottlieb made a good point tonight when arguing for St. Mary's to be in. They played 8 straight games either on the road or at a neutral site. They went on the road to play traditionally pretty good basketball teams in Oregon, Kent St., and Southern Illinois. They brought Providence in to play them at their place.
None of those teams are eye-poppers, and had you told me before the season we'd have to played them, I'd have said we could beat every single one of them. St. Mary's RPI was in the 30s in a conference a quarter of the strength of the Big 10. That means they built it up, not by playing the college basketball elite, but rather by simply playing some decent basketball teams.
If Tim Curley had done HALF of what St. Mary's did to get our RPI to where theirs was, we'd be in right now, plain and simple. Take their non-conference slate, and mix it with our conference schedule, and you're talking about a team not only being in the tournament for the first time since 2001, but an 8 or 9 seed, maybe even higher.
The fact that we're on the outside looking in means that Tim Curley didn't do his job correctly. When you're a school like Penn State, opportunities like this don't come around everyday, and when your leader fails to take advantage of one of those, his head needs to roll. Indiana will be back next season. We're losing two of our top three scorers. Who knows where we'll be a year from now.
This is a disaster, and its a disaster of our own doing. And when you take opportunities away from yourself, you aren't doing your job correctly.
Fire Tim Curley.
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I'm not an ED basher
and I definitely think he deserves at least another year, but I guarantee you that he made this schedule and much of the responsibility should be put on him. That said a tool like Curley who has hurt the basketball program so much should probably be let go.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on Mar 15, 2009 8:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Dude Was Trying To Save His Job
Can you blame him? I don’t hold Ed responsible for that. When Ed handed that piece of garbage schedule to Curley, and AD worth $15 would have said, “uh uh”, and handed it right back to him.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless of the motives
that is who made the schedule their is no way around it. There is no job saving clause in the selection process. He can’t get credit for how this team played if he can’t take the blame in other areas.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on Mar 15, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I Agree
But, let’s be honest here. He needs to coach the basketball team, too. He has earned credit by getting this far to mix in whatever blame he should share. Tim Curley has not in my mind. He could have stepped in and told him “You’re going to earn this”, and I think Ed would have.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah
Curley is a tool, he doesn’t do anything it seems. ED had to realize that the schedule was terrible. I mean everyone on the pennstatehoops board saw this coming a mile away.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on Mar 15, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did They?
Did anyone see us being the #1 overall seed in the NIT aka the first team out? I didn’t. At the beginning of the year, all I thought Ed had to do was make the NIT to save his job. He could have done that with a better schedule. The truth is, no one compensated for over achievement, and thats the unfortunate thing. Curley could have said “Cmon Ed, you can do better than this. Just don’t embarass us, and you’re not going anywhere”, but he didn’t.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
These teams were terrible
The few marquee teams that were on the schedule PSU didn’t even beat. The schedule should not have hinged on beating Rhodie in a tournament. The home and homes were Temple and Penn. That’s sad. The teams didn’t have to be from BCS conferences, they could have just been teams with RPIs in the 100s not 300s. With all the talk that teams won’t travel to play midmajors PSU should change and take on all takers.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on Mar 15, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they don't have to travel far
Duquesne, Robert Morris, any MAC from Ohio. They’d all be good additions to the schedule. Unlike football, its how many games you win, not where you win them. Hell, go to Memphis. I’m sure they’d love to play us.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
EXACTLY
Buffalo, Akron, just anyone but the horrible dogs on that schedule. My argument is that an NIT type schedule could have been made without those dogs.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on Mar 15, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
He only had to make the NIT to save his job, but no one bargained that we’d be good enough for the big dance. And THATS why his ass needs to go.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He being Curley
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh...I don't think Curley's job was in jeopardy
even if we had another ho-hum basketball season
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 15, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No You're Right
But it should have been. And it REALLY should be now.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand why you feel his job should have been in jeopardy
I don’t agree with it, but I understand why you think it.
But I don’t think his job should be in more jeopardy when they performed better than they have in nearly a decade.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 15, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does that have to do with the price of eggs in Denmark?
You can’t go into schedule making saying “Gee, we suck, so let’s play the crappiest schedule possible to make sure the worst we can do is get into the NIT.”
You go in trying to make the NCAA Tournament every year. Period. This team could have made the NIT playing a lot tougher teams.
No one compensated for over achievement, and now we’re screwed.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He job can be exactly as much in jeopardy now
as it was when the schedule was first put out. The fact that the team over-achieved should not make his schedule any worse. The answer to this question may very well be yes, but were you as adamant about his firing when the schedule was first released?
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 15, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Firing? No
It isn’t my job to compensate for over achievement though.
How far over do you think this will go?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the point I'm trying to make is
you wouldn’t fire him if we had a terrible basketball team this year, but the fact that we had a good basketball team this year, but got snubbed by the selection committee is now apparently a fireable offense.
It just seems like your definition of handling over-achievement is firing, because they didn’t do better
PSU is not historically a good bball school. This is like when the AD or coach at a school like Toledo or Bowling Green or some other non-BCS school takes a terrible football program, has a year or 2 of decent to good teams, and then goes back to mediocrity. After tasting a tiny bit of success, all of a sudden the fans and media call for firings, and it is just ridiculous.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 15, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa
Just because you’re not historically a good basketball program doesn’t mean you can’t become one. My God. We Are Penn State. We should be able to at least have seasons like this in the middle of the Big 10 pretty regularly. I don’t expect deep runs in the postseason, but we should be able to get there.
We didn’t get snubbed by the selection committee. We played ourselves out before the season ever started, and thats on Curley. When you start the season in position to fail, you don’t deserve to be the athletic director at a school like Penn St.
Nevermind the fact he was one of the people standing on Joe’s door trying to kick him out…
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's all I'm saying
is that if you thought he set us up in a position to fail before the season started, and wanted to fire him then, then I at least agree with your logic, if not your ideas.
But from what I understand (I could be wrong) was that you didn’t think he deserved to be fired at the beginning of the season, but now that the basketball overachieved (but didn’t overachieve enough to compensate for the poor OOC schedule) you think he DOES deserve to be fired. I just can’t understand that. Either he has been doing a bad job the whole time, or not.
I (obviously) personally don’t think he deserves to be fired. He has Penn State as one of the premier college programs (in ALL sports) year in and year out. We have 1.5 years of “bad” OOC games in football (I only count 2008 as half bad, since we wound up getting OrSt.), and one year in basketball where our crappy OOC schedule actually affected anything (I don’t know how this compares to other years, ie did we just not notice how crappy it was since we were never in the tourney hunt to begin with, or was this an especially weak year) and you want to fire the guy that didn’t even make the schedule (though yes, he did sign off on it, and ultimately it is his responsibility).
(PS yes, I am sorta dragging this out to see how far the comments will go…I just did the preview, though, and it looks like I’m replying to myself, even though this was a reply to fugi. BOO. I was hoping it would get to 1 letter per line ;-) )
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 16, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he needs to be evaluated...
What isn’t brought up here is the football schedule…The SOS for the football team is ridiculous as well. The guy needs to get more done, because not only does it affect the post season chances of the basketball team, and the BCS ranking on the football team it also affects the national perception of Penn State. I had three people today ask me why the basketball team schedules the same way the football team does, meaning bringing in a bunch of dwarfs and piling up wins… There isn’t much you can say. I know the whole “Syracuse Screwed us” thing, but that is no excuse….next year there are plenty of pushovers ect, Curley needs to be evaluated really hard for his role in these schenanigans.
Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno
by carolinaeasy on Mar 16, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Evaluation
Here’s how that will go…
The football team is selling out every game.
The basketball team had more support than ever this year.
There are new facilties all over campus.
The “secondary” teams are doing very well.
$$$$ OMG okay Tim you can stay on!
The problem is that the people who have influence in this don’t think the scheduling is a problem.
by speedomike on Mar 16, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then PSU as a whole
has a philisophical problem. They are more interested in making money than having success….New slogan should be $$$ with Honor
Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno
by carolinaeasy on Mar 16, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the football schedule is hard to defend
but it is just a blip. It isn’t a regular occurrance that we have such a creampuff schedule (though it does happen from time to time, but that’s how it is for MANY programs out there). And yes, there’s the whole Syracuse debacle, and 2009 will be even worse since we didn’t bring in an Oregon State type program. But then we move on to our next marquee team that will actually impress people.
People make it seem like every year PSU has had as bad a schedule as 2009 (or 2008), and that isn’t entirely true.
I can’t talk to the history of basketball scheduling, though.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 16, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But one good team
and a bunch of powder puffs has become a year in and year out occurance, and the main reason we won’t play pitt is $$$$$…….no other reason….strip it bare, lay it out and $$$ is preventing a marquee matchup every single year. Yes the schedule isn’t nearly as bad as 09 every year, but it rarely gets exciting…
Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno
by carolinaeasy on Mar 16, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happened to Jerry Dunn anyway?
And why was he fired?
Neil Rudel, circa this miserable day:
Dunn, who scheduled Pitt and Georgetown home and home and went to Kentucky on a one-shot deal – and won – and played Tennessee, ’Nova and Boston College, did a better job with non-con opportunities, and it paid off.
by Mr. Rosewater on Mar 16, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jerry Dunn
He’s an assistant coach at Michigan now.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Mar 16, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Michigan:
hiring assistant coaches who used to be head coaches that ran their programs into the ground since 1817
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 16, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's probably a great assistant
coach. Too bad as a head coach he was lazy. Late for practice. No show for recruits.
pinkertonpark.com
by rahpsu92 on Mar 16, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It paid off
In some 2 win big ten seasons.
by Tailgate Shogun on Mar 16, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Jerry Dunn didn’t quite payoff for the program as a whole. Unless you think a program in shambles is a payoff.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on Mar 16, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo- Granted, he didn’t put them in the greatest position, but if they win that game against Iowa, or even just show up against Purdue, this is a different conversation. I’d like to see better scheduling, but they had their chances, too.
John Madden told me 90% of the game was half-mental...
by TheK-GunNeedsReloaded on Mar 15, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats A Hollow Argument
This isn’t football. You’re going to lose basketball games, especially when you don’t have the elite talent other schools have. Some will be good losses, like to Purdue the other night. Others will be slip ups, like Iowa. Every team, even PItt, Carolina, Louisville, and Connecticut have to deal with them. The truth is, we could have afforded to lose even more games, like Michigan did, had we played anyone worth a damn outside the Big 10.
You can play the old man “just go out and win” card all you want, but the truth is, this team wasn’t good enough to do that. They needed a safety valve. Curley gave them no margin for error. Can his ass.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like your logic...
We solve the problem that Penn State wasn’t good enough to beat Iowa by playing a tougher schedule. It makes perfect sense, as long as you don’t think about it.
by VVeRPennState on Mar 15, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
This isn’t football. Its not “line ’em up and hit ’em in the mouth for 60 minutes” once a week. Its a marathon against a lot of good teams in a league like the Big 10. You CAN’T win them all, even if you are the best team. A good non-conference, or even a half-baked one in this case, give you the margin of error to slip up a few times.
For what its worth, I blame the football team for losing to Iowa.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I blame the coaches for the Iowa game...
Clark had the mental capacity of a tube of toothpaste for that game, devlin should have played….
Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno
by carolinaeasy on Mar 16, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea
“Coaches” would roughly fall under “team”
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 16, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well for most people
“team” represents the players first….I don’t think that was a lack of effort from the players in that game, I put that loss on the coaches, the schemes, the lack of challenges (intentional grounding anyone?), and throwing the ball early in a 30 mph wind gust on the road all sits on them….I just thought I would throw my 2 cents out that I differentiate between the players and the coaches.
Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno
by carolinaeasy on Mar 17, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
better schedule
We would have been in the NCAAs if we had replaced the total dogs on our schedule like Army, Lafayette and William & Mary with better patsies (whom we could still easily beat). That’s all we needed to do.
by Laaaaazzz on Mar 15, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curly didn't lose to Iowa, but scheduling did cost us BIG TIME
Ultimately, this conversation is about reputation, with PSU suffering from a “Big Fish, Small Pond” syndrome.
Seriously, which would you rather see in a season?
A loss to Duke, UCLA in the OOC, with the loss to Iowa = NIT trip
or
A win over Bloomsburg, NJIT in the OOC, with a loss to Iowa = NIT trip?
And about the money argument: bringing in Duke would sell out the BJC guaranteed, and that would account for at least 3 shitty home games, because hardly anyone goes to those.
by Mr. Rosewater on Mar 15, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A loss to Duke, UCLA in the OOC, with the loss to Iowa = NIT trip
Fundamentally disagree. We have those two losses on our schedule, we might have had a chance. We’d have had a similar resume to Michigan. They had two ranked wins out of the Big 10, and one in. We had 4 in the conference and none out. Tack on the losses to UCLA and Duke, and yea, the record is a little worse, but no worse than ’Zona’s, or Maryland’s, or Michigan’s. On the flip side, we have a waaay higher RPI and SOS.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's math dude
Wisky got in losing to UCONN, Texas and Marquette and not having as many league wins. Just having one more team might have given PSU a NCAA birth.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on Mar 15, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, maybe a loss to a good team is better than a win over a less gifted team, but I think the committee may still bump us out of the bubble saying “Well, they lost to those teams.”
by Mr. Rosewater on Mar 16, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Playing tougher teams
The thing is, we don’t have to play Duke, Pitt, etc. We just have to replace the Sacred Heart/New Hampshire type teams with not awful mid major teams. Replace Sacred Heart with Holy Cross, New Hampshire with College of Charleston, NJIT with Robert Morris, and you start to build a much more respectable RPI. Teams like Creighton and St. Mary’s (granted, who didn’t make it, but we would have made it with their RPI) didn’t get high RPI’s by beating top 25 teams, they just played a lot of teams in the 50-200 range and won. Are OOC was filled with sub-250 teams.
by pittnitfan on Mar 15, 2009 8:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Its not gonna happen
Tim Curley probably couldn’t be more powerless, and makes some pretty questionable decisions (ie treating the hockey and rugby teams like they are varsity sports, not finishing the indoor track facility to allow for national meets to take place there, etc). But the reality is, the athletic department is very successful and the people (person) who really matter like him. He’s not going anywhere.
by speedomike on Mar 15, 2009 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
If we’re going to judge a man’s job by the performance of his well-funded (perhaps even over funded) secondary sports teams, then we’re on the road to mediocrity when JoePa is gone. Plain and simple.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well-funded
Not sure where you’re getting that those teams are so well funded. Guess it depends on your definition.
And as far as JoePa goes, don’t be so sure that he has nothing to do with the weak hoops schedule.
by speedomike on Mar 15, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Take A Look At...
…Medlar Field and Jeffery Field and tell me we aren’t well funded.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
But when looking at comparable schools, we’re behind. In fact we’ve lost coaches (swimming and soccer) recently because we don’t pay our coaches well. Of course, a lot of that has to do with the number of sports that are funded, and the fact that one sport is funding all of them. That to me is the bigger issue here-why does the AD not make more of an effort to raise the level of the basketball team to a point where football doesn’t have to fund everything.
by speedomike on Mar 15, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which Is Precisely My Point
You don’t raise the status of your basketball team by playing a shit schedule. Not a single analyst came to bat for us tonight. We look like idiots. Now everyone has a bad taste in their mouths, and if we regress next year, the support for this team will fade rapidly if they’re playing little sisters of the poor in the non-con again.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FYI
Bob Knight came to bat for us saying we are a better team today than Michigan and deserved to be in…
by VVeRPennState on Mar 15, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn, you beat me to it
I blame Iowa
by ReadingRambler on Mar 15, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he really just wants to be our coach?
by mjs2103 on Mar 15, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
He’d want to make money, which is a non-no at Penn State.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what if we paid him in hugs instead of money?
by mjs2103 on Mar 15, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like how you use Saint Mary's in your argument
but they’re headed for the NIT as well
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 15, 2009 9:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Look at the RPI
They got an RPI in the 30s with no conference around them to speak of. The only team in it is Gonzaga, who they lost to 3 times. And still, despite all that, their RPI was pretty damn good. They didn’t play any great teams either, just respectable ones. The fact that St. Mary’s with 6 losses was even in the discussion speaks to the job THEIR AD did in scheduling.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you're at...
…or near the bottom,
the only way to go is up.
Has anybody here worked with the Athletic Department at PSU before?
by stonewall435 on Mar 15, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have the NIT selections been made yet?
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on Mar 15, 2009 9:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
2 seed playing George Mason
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on Mar 15, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the seeds hold...
we’ll play Niagra in the 2nd round and then Florida for a trip to the final 4 at Madison Square Garden.
by mfounds67 on Mar 15, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well That Could Be Fun
Back to back national champs of a couple of years ago? Not a bad consolation.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please....anyone have a link to the brackets? Stupid NIT.org does not have them up yet
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on Mar 15, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the closest thing. No one cares about the NIT
by psuphiman80 on Mar 15, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we weren't even the 1st team out...at best, we were the 5th team out
= LAME
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on Mar 15, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Neccesarily
That would mean that even if USC and Miss. St. had lost, we still wouldn’t have made it. Which gives me comfort.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who knows though
it sounds like PSU was close. They do the NIT for matchups and stuff because they actually have to make money.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on Mar 15, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rumor Alert!!!
This is just a rumor, not a fact and I apologize if this is already out there, but I heard that Coach ED and Curley were roommates. Does anyone know of this or if it is true? It would make sense why either person would create and/or accept a shitty schedule to cover the others’ ass.
by blt on Mar 15, 2009 10:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They weren't. I can personally guarantee you this.
Your rumor mill is way, way off.
by Tailgate Shogun on Mar 16, 2009 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fire Curley? Are you kidding?
When Tim Curley walks into the next board of trustees meeting he’ll fire up a nice powerpoint presentation with bar graphs and pie charts showing that he raised PSU Men’s basketball revenue by 50% this year in a tough economy. He’ll probably walk out the door with a big fat bonus!
I guarantee you that schedule did not get approved before it was run by Ed first. He’s just as much to blame if not more. I doubt Curley has time to scout all these teams to look for opponents. Ed and his staff are most likely coming up with the first draft for any schedule.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Mar 15, 2009 10:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Curley
Was a roadblock to basketball for awhile. My problem is that I just don’t see what he actually does. I feel like he’s Bob Smykowski in Office Space.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on Mar 15, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this whole argument is pointless
People say that a few tougher opponents even with a couple extra losses would have benefitted us. If you watched this team play you saw loads of potential but also wild inconsistencies, Its all hindsight. We have no idea if this team would have played the same and had similar results with a tougher schedule. And most of you out there had no clue or gave a rats ass what the basketball schedule was before we were 11-2 heading into the big ten. The fact is this season was still a success, and if we would have had this motivated of a fan base beforehand maybe we would have gotten that schedule.
I maintain that this is on the fan base. This season was a neccesary evil. We get some soft wins, drum up support so people pay attention, if we make the tourney great. It sucks but we can’t do anything. Instead of trying to fire people which we have no control over, how about we just support these great kids. It isn’t their fault, they tried. I hope we can gather it up and make a run in the NIT, Ill be at the BJC cheering on tuesday.
Also, I don’t care about our non con this year, it sucked yeah. I call bullshit on the committe. When I saw Minnesota and Arizona as what,10 seeds? Get outta here with that. I have no problem with us being out, but if Minnesota rates as a 10 we should have rated as at least in the field. That is what upset me. The Big Ten had 7 teams in. We were easily one of the 10 best teams in the big ten.
Well, like I said, lets regroup and send Jamelle, Danny, and Stanley off in style.
"They ain't got the tradition to hold our nuts." - Deon Butler
by Roland86 on Mar 16, 2009 1:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I meant 7 best teams in the big ten, sorry
"They ain't got the tradition to hold our nuts." - Deon Butler
by Roland86 on Mar 16, 2009 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Call on the Fanbase
But, we all scream over the football non-con, and that doesn’t change anything either.
Since the Big 10 network has given me the chance to watch the games, I’ve been behind this team all the way. I cared about the non-con, but no one else did.
In any event, I don’t hold the players responsible for this. You’re right. They did their best. It sucks that the people leading them didn’t.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 16, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ignorant Argument
Ive said it once and I’ll say it again, this argument is ignorant and can not be justified. The teams decide their fate by how they play. Schedules are done years ahead of time and no one, well unless the AD would be Jesus, can forsee the future. Stop looking for someone else to blame. I agree with what someone else said in another post. Thanks Iowa, again.
by MrBrianPSU on Mar 16, 2009 3:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We cannot schedule Bloomburg, New Jersey Institute of Technology, Hartford, New Hampshire, and Army. These guys will NOT make the field of 65 OR the NIT OR a winning record 10 years from now – Jesus or not.
And what if they did? It’s because they won their shitty conference. Not good for the RPI.
by Mr. Rosewater on Mar 16, 2009 6:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schedules are not done years in advance for basketball
Nothing really beyond home and homes are schedule, that’s as far in advance as it goes in basketball. It was glaringly obvious that Army Hartford, Lafayette etc. were going to be terrible and their were not marquee games on the schedule. If decent games had been scheduled Penn State would have lost it on the court. The committee has made it an obvious point that teams NEED a tough OOC slate to be considered for the tournament.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on Mar 16, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen
We’re not talking about the major conference schools here. Simply put, we could have found mid majors over the summer that would have been willing to play us that are far better than the crap we brought in this year.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 16, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa
Let me get this straight. If the team sucks, you make a crappy schedule, like we did, simply to make them look better? Thats BS. The job%2
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 16, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Bad
Let me get this straight. If the team sucks, you make a crappy schedule, like we did, simply to make them look better? Thats BS. The job of the AD is to put the team in the best possible position to succeed. If the team sucks, well then its on the team. If they can’t play and NCAA tournament schedule, then they don’t deserve to be there. But this team was capable of playing an NCAA tournament schedule. They didn’t, and THAT is Tim Curley’s fault. The schedule shouldn’t be made to fit the team’s ability level. The goal should be to make the NCAA tournament every season. You should hold the team to that standard. If they can’t get there, then its on them.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 16, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there are things called "baby steps" though
and for that reason you SHOULD make the schedule fit the team’s ability. Psychologically, if a team is constantly playing teams that will beat them, then that team is going to start believing they are losers, and won’t really care as much in later games. If the team went into the Big 10 with a record of 2-11 (against a tougher OOC slate, of course) I bet they wouldn’t have played as hard in the Big 10, and possibly not have gotten as many big wins as they did. Some people would call this “momentum” and it does play a big psychological factor in performance in sports.
With that said, though, I do agree that we could have played a tougher schedule (even with our crappier teams) made up of more “mid-level” teams and still come out with a very favorable record. What bugs me about this factor in the selection committee’s minds (and RPI calculations in general) is that they make it seem like playing the 150th ranked RPI team is really all that much better than playing the 200th or 250th ranked team, when really in the end you should be able to beat every single one of them. One problem with this (in the RPI calculations at least) is that they use the average of opponents win % (and opponents-opponents win %), which can be affected by outliers. I would like to see what the RPI’s would look like if they used the median instead of average.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 16, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you sure about that?
“But this team was capable of playing an NCAA tournament schedule.”
They lost to the only teams worth a damn in the OOC schedule. They caught some pretty lucky breaks with injuries in the Purdue and Michigan State wins. They couldn’t beat a 4-win Big Ten team to seal the deal, and had some miracle comebacks in other wins.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not supporting the schedule. But I think you’re making some assumptions about this team that may not be realistic.
by speedomike on Mar 16, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fugi, I think the dead horse you keep beating is, well, dead.
We’re all upset that this team didn’t make the tourney. But maybe people need to stop and realize that this wasn’t a powerhouse team. Could a better schedule have helped? Definitely. But you play the hand you’re dealt, and this team managed to fold 11 times. It was a good team, with three great players and a lot of heart. But not a great team. It has no bench depth. Can’t shoot FT’s to save their ass. The team was wildly inconsistent, needing inconceiveable comebacks to beat Iowa & Illinois (to name 2). They barely bothered to show up at Minnesota & at home vs. Michigan & Wisconsin.
We beat an awful GT team by 2. We beat Sacred Heart by 8. We beat an atrocious Penn team by 12. We beat someone or something called Mt. St. Mary’s by 5.
Maybe next year we should sweep Iowa and beat Rhode Island. That would have given us a quality win and boosted the RPI, too, you know.
by Tailgate Shogun on Mar 16, 2009 7:40 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Thank you.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Mar 16, 2009 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Don't Need to be a Powerhouse
I’d say Michigan is hardly one. But we were tournament worthy. Of course we have flaws, but so does every team in the field of 65, or they wouldn’t have all lost basketball games.
-We beat Michigan at home.
-Mt. St. Mary’s might have been our best OOC win. They lost on a last second shot in the NEC final to Robert Morris, otherwise, they’d be in the dance today.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 16, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes we should probably be in over someone like Maryland, but when it comes down to it, team history also plays a part in the selection committee’s decisions just like how some BCS bowl match ups are done. Who has a better tourney history, us or Maryland?
This is not a firable offense is what most of us are getting at. No one even thought we’d be near as good as we were this year. You are essentially taking dirt and holding it to the standard of gold. Which when talking about someones job, isnt always the best thing. As much as we would all love every PSU team to dominate in everything, realistically, it won’t happen. So you, and anyone else who agree that Tim Curley should be fired need to just accept moments of success that some of our more non dominant teams achieve. Take it for what it is, and lets all hope that the team can grow from it, and that our team and facility will be more appealing to better recruits.
by MrBrianPSU on Mar 16, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then What is Fireable?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 16, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well here is what isn't...
Creating a manageable non-confrence schedule so that a young basketball team with clear depth issues has a chance to compete for a post season bid heading into it’s confrence schedule.
So basicly, you want to fire the guy, despite the fact that his plan clearly worked, because the team performed (way) beyond expectations during the league schedule and actually earned it’s way into the discussion for an NCAA bid.
That’s just crazy.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Mar 16, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If by "manageable" you mean "joke of"
I totally agree with you.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 16, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
breaking the law, running the athletic department into the ground, running a shady program, paying players, etc.
I
by speedomike on Mar 16, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Fugi DID open his post with the following...
Ok, let’s be honest here, I’m more or less rehashing a debate we’ve already had, and I realize that, but let’s face the facts here.
by Mr. Rosewater on Mar 16, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact is...
we did not have a team ready to play an NCAA Tournament schedule. Remember, we got pasted by Rhode Island. While they were good enough to come back, they were crushed (look at the statistics and the game flow chart).
(I agree with the argument that you can and should improve the schedule, which would improve RPI even when we lose those games. I disagree that we’re a NCAA tournament quality team; that’s why we were on the bubble in the first place.)
by Aaron PSU on Mar 16, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
100th comment
Schedule hurt us, Iowa beating us, Curley castrating us.
Dot Dot Dot…
by Mr. Rosewater on Mar 16, 2009 11:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Same Old, Same Old
This isn’t Tim Curley’s fault. He’s under orders to keep the basketball budgets in line and thus falls back into this predictable path of least resistance scheduling. Doing the same thing in football too. The 8th home game is more important than scheduling someone who might give us a real game. Scheduling New Jersey Tech and Bucknell are more important because we “need” the home games more than we need a real opponent.
The trouble is that the athletic deparment as a whole is on cruise control from JoePa all of the way to the Nittany Lion Club. We do things because its the way that we always do them. Nobody wants to take a serious look at anything and see if there is another, better way. So we’ll continue to be a great football power, have great volleyball teams and make excuses for not having a D1 ice hockey program. Until we have a discussion about the whole of the program we are going to be back here every year talking about why the men’s team isn’t going to the dance and why the women’s team isn’t even on anyone’s radar anymore.
by NoRebound on Mar 17, 2009 1:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well to be fair
The womens team isn’t on the radar anymore because we had an talented coach who unfortunately and stupidly was not to fond of gay people. I used to actually enjoy coming to women’s games more then men’s as a kid because I got to see top talent going against top talent. I remeber the final four and playing Duke at home (something like #2 vs #3)
"They ain't got the tradition to hold our nuts." - Deon Butler
by Roland86 on Mar 17, 2009 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give me a break
Hello, we just won the league in football, and had the best basketball season in a decade. This is what good is. Jesus, if you can’t enjoy success what is the point of even being a fan?
You guys won’t be happy until the football team goes 6-0 in the NFC east, and the basketball team makes the NBA playoffs.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Mar 17, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I take offense to that
I could care less if PSU goes 6-0 in the NFC East unless they bring home that Lombardi trophey as well. If not, the 6-0 in the east is a shallow feat.
"I'm driven by greatness" - Derrick Williams
by HookMania on Mar 17, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I don’t want you to take this the wrong way. I probably enjoyed this basketball season as much as any single season of any of my favorite sports teams ever.
Nevertheless, the fact that guys like Cornley and Pringle, who battled hard for the program all season and brought us to respectability, are getting screwed by the schedule is ridiculous. You’re right. It was the best basketball season in a decade, and its a shame it was ruined by someone as inept at managing that season as Tim Curley.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 17, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So true
“The trouble is that the athletic deparment as a whole is on cruise control from JoePa all of the way to the Nittany Lion Club. We do things because its the way that we always do them. Nobody wants to take a serious look at anything and see if there is another, better way.”
Best post in this thread yet.
by speedomike on Mar 17, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
getting screwed by the schedule
is ridiculous, insofar as they were not screwed by their schedule. They were screwed by not winning the games on it.
Beat Rhode Island, play respectably against Villanova, in the NCAA tournament.
Beat Ohio State in Columbus, in the NCAA tournament.
Beat Iowa in Iowa City, in the NCAA tournament.
Beat Purdue in the Big Ten Tournament, well, you get the picture.
How is that getting screwed by your schedule? To my mind that is garden variety choking, and the exact type of thing that keeps you out of the NCAA tournament by proving you don’t belong.
The kids had a great season, they way over acheived. But they screwed themselves. And to think it provides any basis in rality to fire Tim Curley is just silly.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Mar 17, 2009 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You're a Clown
Why don’t you just list the other 7 losses and say we choked in them, too?
No one besides Michigan St. had less than 7 losses in the conference this season, or 9 losses overall. Not a single effing one. Basketball is a lot more like baseball than football, which is what a lot of Penn State football fans finally having their eyes opened to basketball can’t understand. Taking 2 out of 3 is success, and thats what PSU did all season long, hence the perfect 2:1 win-loss ratio. Only GREAT teams can put seasons together like Pitt, UCONN, and Michigan St. had where they were able to do a lot better than 2 out of every 3 overall.
Our resume isn’t all that different than any NCAA team out of the Big 10 except the non-conference schedule. Period. The players went out and did everything else the other teams in the conference did, except play a difficult non-conference schedule. Did they have anything to do with that?
No.
If you’re looking for chokers, look at Tim Curley.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 17, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting?
This post is like freaking Groundhog Day, only instead of waking up to Sonny & Cher, we keep posting the following argument:
1. Our schedule sucked and I hate Tim Curley
2. Maybe we won 22 games because we had a weak schedule
3. But other teams with 22 wins got in because they had a better schedule
4. And maybe we’d only have 16 wins with a tougher schedule.
5. Repeat
6. Repeat
7. Repeat
8. Repeat
9. Repeat
10. Post funny picture
11. Repeat
I mean, are we done here?
by Tailgate Shogun on Mar 17, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I may be a clown...
But you know who is not going to be fired? Tim Curley.
No matter how many more thousands of words you write about it, he’s not getting fired. Not only is he not going to be fired, he’s liable to get a fat raise and a contract extension out of all of this.
Your opinion, while misguided in my opinion, is well taken. But you might as well be arguing for the annexation of Canada. You are wasting perfectly good moral outrage on a what is essentially a non issue.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Mar 17, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking about America Jr
BLAME CANA…ER…IOWA!!!!
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 17, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey
You’re little “Win ‘em all, and the rest won’t matter” argument is far more ridiculous than anything I’ve said. THIS ISN’T FOOTBALL. WINNING THEM ALL CAN AND WILL NO HAPPEN.
And you’d have to be an idiot to give Curley a raise after this, even if they only thing you were worried about is money. Anyone worth anything up there right now knows we should have been in the tournament, and they know that while bringing a few thousand more people into the Jordan Center for the NIT is nice, theres a lot more money to be made elsewhere.
You don’t think Spanier would rather be jetting about the nation with some rich alumni, asking them “See, isn’t having a good basketball team nice? Sign here please…”? Give me a break.
When all the big wigs sit down and Curley gives them the numbers for this basketball season, and he says “Basketball revenue was up x%”, you don’t think anyone in that room will raise their hand and ask “And what would it have been if we’d made the tournament?”. Yea, I don’t think thats going to happen.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 17, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You misspelled "Win one more game and we're in the tournament"
Talking about improving the strength of schedule is OK.
Talking about being dominated by Rhode Island is not OK.
by Aaron PSU on Mar 17, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
Sticking my fingers in my ears now and making sounds because I’m getting tired of hearing the BS that its the teams fault. The team did what everyonelse did except play a good schedule. That isn’t their fault.
lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 17, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arizona didn't play a good schedule either
but TRADITION, which means we needed a quality win.
Improved RPI doesn’t help when you lose to URI when TRADITION is in the way.
by Aaron PSU on Mar 17, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly...
…how many home games are played as a result of the NCAA tournament?
by stonewall435 on Mar 17, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Spanier wanted to go to the tournament that badly, he would have made changes years ago.
by speedomike on Mar 17, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
After seeing how all the chips fell on Sunday
I’m not sure that beating Iowa on the road was enough to get us in.
"Never. We would never shoot nuclear weapons at Decepticons." -- Gen. Jack Jacobs
by Run Up The Score on Mar 17, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's interesting
Would the committee have the balls to skip over the 2nd seeded B10 team? It’s easier to tell the 6th seed to pound sand but a team that finished tied for 2nd in a BCS conference. That would take stones.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on Mar 17, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially if we won our first game
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Mar 17, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right
I think beating Iowa in and of itself probably wasn’t enough, but it would have gotten us as the 2 seed in the Big Ten (very hard to ignore), and faced us off against Wisconsin (or would it have been OSU?), which granted we sucked against regular season, but at least it wouldn’t have put us against Purdue shooting 109i234932094% (the i was unintentional, but kept in because of how imaginarily high their shooting % was). and so we would have had a better shot at winning our first game (or at least not look as embarrassing during)
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 17, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would have been the winner of the 6-11
Wisky was the 5 so it would probably been them.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on Mar 17, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'm not sure that...
…beating Iowa and losing to Wisky gets us in, anyway (especially given where Wisky ended up in the NCAA seeding). But whatever.
"Never. We would never shoot nuclear weapons at Decepticons." -- Gen. Jack Jacobs
by Run Up The Score on Mar 17, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my $0.02
i’m admittedly, at best, a casual college bball fan. i watched about 5 PSU games this year, and maybe two dozen total.
penn state had a nice year, some REAL gutty wins, but guys, they are not that good. the NCAA tourney comes down to 34 at large bids up for grabs. it’s really close, but PSU is somewhere in the 30-40th best team range going for those spots. yes, they are better than some of these tiny conference schools that get an auto-bid, but that is the beauty of the tourney…the little guys getting a shot….if you wanna bitch about teams like Chattanooga getting in, that’s a whole different argument.
strong schedule or weak schedule the team was mediocre in the national scope of things…good for PSU standards, yeah, but mediocre in reality. build on this year, have the same shitty schedule and go 24-8 and there is no argument next year at this time…OR beef up your schedule a little, go 22-11 again, and we’re in. either way, this team needs to do a little more next year to get in. either the win column or the SOS. and either way, Curley is not getting fired as i somehow try to return to the thread topic. curley did not brick free throws all year and curley does not continuously fail to recruit talent rich local urban areas.
by hbeach08 on Mar 17, 2009 7:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Woah Woah Woah
This board doesn’t have near the same amount of boobies.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on Mar 24, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The blame game
You don’t have to blame someone for Penn State not making the ncaa tournament. It is not one person’s fault that Penn State isn’t the world’s greatest basketball team or even one of the best 34 teams that didn’t get an automatic bid the NCAA tournament.
Life is complicated, even if we wish it wasn’t. Basketball teams are living, breathing organisms. Sometimes they play well and beat teams they shouldn’t in East Lansing. Sometimes they choke, and lose to a bunch of hillbilly corn-lovin midwesterners.
This French Revolution approach to college basketball seems a little much. I thought the team played well. I don’t think anyone should get fired as a result of it. My guess is that few of us know what Tim Curley’s job actually consists of, so we are not qualified to determine whether or not he should retain his job.
Since it’s St. Patrick’s day, I feel obliged to share the Serenity Prayer, which one of my Irish alcoholic uncles gave to my parents on their wedding day, and which hung in my house as a child:
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
by spakajewia on Mar 17, 2009 10:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It Isn't Just Basketball
As I said in the previous posts that were more football-centered, hes screwed up a bunch there, too. Hell, he thought it was a good idea to ask JoePa to quit. Can his ass.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 17, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One reason he asked Joe Paterno to quit
was because the fanbase was crazy with unreasonable demands and insisted that Paterno be fired. Sound familar?
You didn’t post a poll about who should be blamed for asking Joe Paterno to retire five years ago. If you did, I wouldn’t have said Graham Cracker or Curley Q, I would have said: “irrational fans.”
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
by spakajewia on Mar 17, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Missed the Previous Episodes
Scroll back through the fanposts, and you’ll find two more about Curley where we discussed more football than anything.
This is the latest, and most egregious error of them all, and I think its fireable. Will he be? Probably not. But if he produces another turd on an OOC next year, people need to start clammering.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 17, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does Tim Curley do in a typical workday?
How many staff members report to him?
What are his responsibilities?
How do Graham Spanier and his other supervisors measure his professional successes and failures?
Is he easy to work with?
What do his colleagues at the other big ten schools think of him?
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that you don’t have a clue about how to answer any of those questions. Therefore, you’re in no position to judge his worth as an employee and representative of Penn State.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
by spakajewia on Mar 17, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
The team had four losing seasons in five years, and he was what, 78 at the time? Not even thinking about saying it was time for Joe Paterno to hang it up at that point, in mind, might have been “fireable”. They were comng out of a 3-9 season for gods sake. The he turned it around was wonderful, but banking on it would have been a stupid, irrational, bet.
You keep saying that the basketball team didn’t have a chance to succede. That’s bullshit, every team in the Big Ten has a chance to be successful. This team was no exception. To say they didn’t quite get it done isn’t blaming the team, it’s reading the god damn box score. I’m not lambasting the kids, they had a great season, but I won’t get behind irrationally blaming somebody else because Talor Battle missed a shot at the end of the Iowa game, or because Purdue shot 98% from the field.
Shit happens. Deal with it.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Mar 18, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Irrational
Every team in the Big Ten WAS successful, and with the exception of Michigan St., little more successful than us. Again. The difference was the schedule. Period.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 18, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't completely unreasonable at the time, though.
"Never. We would never shoot nuclear weapons at Decepticons." -- Gen. Jack Jacobs
by Run Up The Score on Mar 18, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Q and A
Staff Members? Who cares
Responsibilities? Put teams in best possible position to succeed. FAIL
Measure of Success? Profit. Does he make oodles? Yes. Could he make more? Yes.
Easy to Work With? He’s a tool, otherwise he wouldn’t be scheduling NJIT.
Colleagues? If he sucked, do you think they’d say bad things about him?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 17, 2009 11:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wow, ignorance at its best
Staff Members? Who cares probably the staff members, and Spanier
Responsibilities? Put teams in best possible position to succeed. FAIL that is one of many responsibilities. And even then, it wasn’t a complete failure. Things didn’t work out, but the team still had many opportunities to get into the tournament, and they didn’t. As early as the beginning of February they had opportunities (don’t lose 3 straight to Mich, Wisky, and Purdue. Beat Ohio State. Beat Iowa. Any one of those things likely would have gotten them in)
Measure of Success? Profit. Does he make oodles? Yes. Could he make more? Yes. Could he make less? Yes. Could he rake in $100 billion? Yes. Could he lose money? Yes. Some are more realistic than others. Also, there are other metrics they use to define how successful he is. Do I know what they are? No. Do his superiors? I’d be willing to bet they do. They likely have milestones every year that he has to reach, and other milestones that likely improve his stock. I’d also be willing to bet that he exceeded his basic milestones and even reached a few of the bonuses
Easy to Work With? He’s a tool, otherwise he wouldn’t be scheduling NJIT. You are calling him a tool for “scheduling” NJIT? Wow, I don’t even know why I am bothering reading anything you write. At this point I should say something like “1/10, weak attempt, try harder next time, troll”. First off, did he schedule NJIT? Not directly. We entered a tournament. That tournament faced us off against NJIT. From everything I’ve read, ED was the one who put us in that tournament. But Curley is apparenlty a tool? Grow up. Also, apparently the ADs at St. Johns, Rutgers, and numerous other programs are tools as well.
Colleagues? If he sucked, do you think they’d say bad things about him? If he was a tool, I’d imagine there would be side comments about him. If he was hard to work with, I’d imagine there would be complaints. Overall, though, there’s probably a code of conduct where they don’t talk shit about each other
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 18, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever.
This is my final advisory. I’m done chasing my tale, and saying the same things over and over.
1. When the top 8 teams in the Big 10 are separated by 2 losses in the conference, and 7 of those 8 get in, there is a glaring weakness in that 8th team for them to be excluded. When you all are very close in the standings, the schedule is, and was the tie breaker. Period. The league was tough this year, and Penn State, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, lost basketball games. This “They should have beaten Iowa” thing is going to drive me straight up a tree. EVERYONE had bad losses because THATS HOW IT GOES IN BASKETBALL. Penn State is lucky (or unlucky depending upon how you look at it) THEIR bad loss didn’t come until the end of the season. Why should we have to win more games than anyone else just to get in? We shouldn’t, but Curley put them in the position that they had to, and its straight bullshit.
2. You’re right. I’m a dumbass. I mean what person in their right mind would think that failing to produce and NCAA tournament berth with one of the best teams PSU has ever had is a bad thing? I’m sure, when the brackets came out, and every expert alive was sticking it to Penn State on national TV and telling them that they’re schedule sucked, the trustees were just giddy. I’m sure they loved knowing that all the people who had finally jumped on the bandwagon, and started believing in this team are jumping right back off, saying “fooled again”, and “same-old, same-old”, vowing not to walk through the BJC doors again. The more we play games like this, the more the fan base is going to call the basketball team the program that cried wolf, and its going to be harder and harder to generate the excitement in the team that was there this year. But I’m sure the trustees love that too. They probably have some obscure success chart where missing the NCAA tournament is a good thing.
3. Not sure where you’re going with the Rutgers/St. Johns thing…Anyway, when Ed told him to enter the Philly Classic, and NJIT showed up on the list of participating teams, Curely should have said “hells no” and walked away. The buck stops with Curley, not Ed on these kinds of things. Period. Yea, Villanova was in it, but playing NJIT, the worst team in the RPI, was too, and having to add them as a black hole to our RPI just to play Villanova wasn’t worth it.
4. So why’d you ask the question?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 18, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put teams in best possible position to succeed?
Like the last three Volleyball National Championships?
Like the Big Ten Football Champions?
by stonewall435 on Mar 19, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh.
He put them in position to win 22 games, Fugi. A lot of PSU fans would argue you’re nuts – 22 wins is one of our best seasons, oh, I don’t know, EVER. A lot of long time fans would call this a huge success.
Plus, you do realize that Ed has quite a bit of say in who gets scheduled, right?
Listen, I doubt you ever met the man, and to want him fired because we didn’t get in the tournament is insane. Being in the tourney is nice, but do you think people remember who made the tourney on any given year (for those who aren’t regulars)? Did Ohio State make it in 2003? I don’t know. Did Minnesota make it in 2006? I don’t know. Does it matter?
And you really think some donor was ready to go T Boone Pickens on our athletic department, but ONLY if we get into the tourney? Please. Football drives NLC donations. The people who do exculsively support basketball are thrilled they can see a team win a few games. I mean, they’ve been writing checks during some god-awful years in the recent past.
We went to the Sweet 16 in 2001. Did that do a damn thing for our recruiting? NO. In fact, we had some of our worst years ever after that great run. No one died because we didn’t make the tournament. Would it have been fun, and a great reward for a great guy like Cornley? YES. Will life somehow go on without the bid? YES.
by Tailgate Shogun on Mar 18, 2009 4:50 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Success
I agree. I think this season was a huge success for the team, and it continues to be, especially after last night. I couldn’t be more proud, and I’m not going to stop watching them now. They’ve been electrifying all year long, and one of most exciting of my favorite teams ever.
But, for Curley, this was a massive failure. Missing the tournament with 22 wins shouldn’t happen. We didn’t miss the tournament because we weren’t good enough, and thats the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. They should have played good teams.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 18, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I give you credit Fugi
Despite everyone else seemingly being against your argument, you are still fighting. That proves you truly believe in what you are saying.
by STU Boy on Mar 18, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should probably wrap this up soon
I’ll just say this. If not making the NCAA tournament is a fireable offense for the athletic director, Tim Curley should have been fired years ago.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Mar 18, 2009 7:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When a Team Underperforms...
…you fire the coach. This team over achieved, and did everything a reasonable person should have expected them to do. And they missed the tournament.
That is the criminal thing, and it falls on Curley.
But your right, we’re just chasing our tales now. Let’s just enjoy what’s left and wait for the schedule to come out.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 18, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Makes perfect sense...
Fire the AD because the basketball team “over achieved”
by VVeRPennState on Mar 18, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
The team over achieved which has approximately this much to do with Tim Curley. The team’s success was earned without anything from him. Their downfall, however, has everything to do with him: the schedule. The team over achieved, and he wasn’t ready for it. His fault.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 18, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HE DOESN'T MAKE THE SCHEDULE BY HIMSELF.
"Never. We would never shoot nuclear weapons at Decepticons." -- Gen. Jack Jacobs
by Run Up The Score on Mar 18, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He approves it by himself.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 18, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
If he was approving that schedule without imput from the coaches he’d be fired.
If he was putting teams on the schedule that coaches didn’t want to play he’d be fired.
You think Ed DeChellis had lined up a road game with North Carolina, only to be foiled by a mustache twirling Tim Curley who was busy scheduling New Jersey Institute of Technology and Shippinsburg while at the same time tying a cheerleader to the railroad tracks?
Did he break Joe Paterno’s hip when JoePa wanted to play at Texas then schedule Coastal Carolina instead?
Because if he did that, we better fire him. But you’ll have to do because he’s one bad ass mother fucker.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Mar 18, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I See.......
where Fugi is coming from. The BB team schedule is the straw that broke the camels back. The same thing happened with the football team in that once USC pummeled them….the rest of the country felt justified in their opinion that PSU was over-rated…….the opinion being solely based on the level of comeptition the team faced in the Big 10 and out of conference. Guy on Yahoo was already baggin on PSU’s football OOC this coming year and we all know we are going to hear about it all year.
It probably is about money. I hate to say that because I usually find the cash argument the laziest and inapproriate……..BUT………it seems like the other sports where the success or failure doesn’t result in large windfalls of cash play anyone anywhere.
The fOOC ootball and basketball schedules need to be better. Its embarassing and people outside of the the Northeast notice.
Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.
"If you hear Ric Flair is in town......WHOOOOO........you KNOW things are takin' place".
Ric Flair
by ech2os on Mar 18, 2009 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Correction.........
it was Ivan Maisel on ESPN.
Who isn’t jealous of Penn State’s nonconference schedule? It’s even softer than the Dux bed that the Nittany Lions relaxed in last fall. Temple (5-7) and Syracuse (3-9) return, while the Nittany Lions swap out Oregon State (9-4) and FCS Coastal Carolina (6-6) for Akron (5-7) and FCS Eastern Illinois (5-7).
Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.
"If you hear Ric Flair is in town......WHOOOOO........you KNOW things are takin' place".
Ric Flair
by ech2os on Mar 18, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Final thoughts on this
-Fugi-while your strong stance on this is somewhat admirable, it’s getting to the point that you’re just looking stubborn and absolutist. You’re not willing to concede anything and have even resorted to namecalling. So, hard to take you seriously.
-I don’t love much about TIm Curley. We’ve got a great athletic department. But we should have had a new pool 5 years ago. We have one of the fastest tracks in the country but can’t host national meets becuase that project was half-assed. The only PSU athletic apparal in Curley’s office is for the hockey team, and Curley essentially mandates that certain people in the athletic department (ie the training staff) treat the rugby and hockey teams like they are varsity sports. No offense to IcersGuy or any other hockey fans, but that’s ridiculous for a place like Penn State. I wouldn’t have any problem if we got rid of TIm Curley and brought in AD that would be willing to take our athletic department to another level. But….
-Fugi you’ve brought up Curley wanted to fire JoePa in 2004 a couple of times. Tim Curley is still around because of JoePa. Penn State is stuck doing the same things the way they always have because of JoePa. The coaches are underpaid, a lot of things are done half-assed, there isn’t much forward thinking going on in the athletic department. But Tim Curley isn’t going anywhere, and a lot of that is because of JoePa.
by speedomike on Mar 18, 2009 8:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've Been Called Names too
Just so you know.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 18, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
I think this post has run its course, so I’m going to shut it down.
Thanks guys.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Mar 27, 2009 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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