Bowden's Hope For 'The Record', Dashed By The NCAA? [Updated Answer: Yes.]
Press conference at 3pm, we will update accordingly.
Speculation from The St. Pete Times, as dictated by Tomahawk Nation:
The St. Pete Times has taken a swing at what they believe will be the penalties:
[...]
-Forfeits in wins for various sports, including FSU Football from the 2007 season. This is only a good thing for those of us who believe this program cannot fully recover until all the old blood is drawn. The NCAA may be doing us a favor, applying this leach, then.
Update: That should do it then. I'm unclear exactly who played in how many games, but it looks like at least the majority of wins from 2006 and 2007 will be removed from the count, reducing Bowden's win total by up to 14 games.
From the release, emphasis added:
Vacation of all wins in which the 61 student-athletes in the sports of football, men's and women's basketball, men's and women's swimming, men's and women's track, men's golf, baseball and softball competed while ineligible during 2006 and 2007. This includes regular season contests, postseason contests and any NCAA championship competition. The individual records of the student-athletes shall be vacated as well. Further, the institution's records regarding all of the involved sports, as well as the records of the head coaches of those sports will reflect the vacated records and will be recorded in all publications in which these records are reported, including, but not limited to, institution media guides, recruiting material, electronic and digital media plus institution and NCAA archives. Any public reference to tournament performances won during this time shall be removed, including, but not limited to, athletics department stationery and banners displayed in public areas such as the venues in which the specified teams compete.
about 3 years ago
KevinHD
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Quick Question
Vacation of all wins in which the 61 student-athletes in the sports of football, men’s and women’s basketball, men’s and women’s swimming, men’s and women’s track, men’s golf, baseball and softball competed while ineligible during 2006 and 2007.
So is FSU vacating all wins from 2006 & 2007????
Not all...
Only the wins from the 06 and 07 seasons that the players who cheated played in. It will be a little while before someone does the research to figure out exactly how many that is.
by VVeRPennState on Mar 6, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I like this comment re: not having to give up the wins
Are you trying to make me break down and cry?
We, as a team, NEED those vaacancies.
It’s the only way to progress.
BSD
It's really hard to tell
TN is liveblogging the call and I’m attempting to read it while working…it sounds like FSU will go back and figure out (1)when the player was ineligible, (2)if they ‘participated’, which may or may not mean actually played vs dressed.
But then there is the question as to whether the coaches needed to know they were ineligible or not.
BSD
by KevinHD on Mar 6, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Knowing didn't matter
From ESPN’s article:
“We just don’t understand the sanction to vacate all wins in athletics contests in which ineligible student-athletes competed because we did not allow anyone who we knew was ineligible to compete. Our position throughout the inquiry was that as soon as we knew of a problem, they didn’t play.”
That quote implies that all the games will be vacated regardless of if the administration knew they were ineligible
by VVeRPennState on Mar 6, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
This is correct.
Personally, I think:
1. Ineligible when cheating occurred. Of course, that’s difficult to ascertain.
2. The participation argument is really complicated.
3. I don’t think knowledge matters.
If we “appeal” this, it will likely be just as lip service to the big money boosters, many of whom are buddies with Bowden.
We are very happy bout this. We traded poor seasons (14-12 record), for less scholarship losses.
In fact, in three of our last 4 years, we played with 82 or fewer players.
I think one of the funniest things
is a bunch of people on TN are actually HAPPY about vacationg the 2006/2007 season(s) (I’m not really sure exactly what games are potentially vacated), since it means vacating hte losses, too, and upping their win %
FSU fans
for the most part don’t care about the all-time wins record the same way that PSU fans do. IMHO we’re much more reverent towards JoePa than FSU fans are towards Bowden. I’m not saying that they don’t love Bowden but there’s clearly a difference between the way we feel about JoePa and they feel about Bowden.
well I think a lot of it has to do with their differences
JoePa still actually does some coaching duties. Also Joe seems to be a lot more involved in the academics/community side of things, and doesn’t just try for the wins, but instead tries for the wins, with “honor”.
Then there’s also the fact that FSU has been having their down period the past few years. Back in 2003-2004, there were a lot of people calling for Joe to go, as well, record be damned. Winning has a way of changing people’s attitudes ;-)
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 6, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think that was sarcasm, actually.
We’re spending a lot of money on coaches and if we can free up Bowden’s 2.25 million, that can go towards a new hall of fame defensive coordinator, to replace multiple time Broyles award winner, but now washed up, Mickey Andrews.
Isn't........
it really this simple for you guys over the last 5 years……..no O-line and big time HS QBs busting.
You guys are loaded year in and year out. I don’t think the Coaches are to blame. Sometimes things just don’t turn out the way you hope and oftentimes there is nothing to do about it. The ACC is much stronger than it was 10 years ago. I have watched a lot of FSU games over the last 10 years and in particular over the last 5 the QB play has been 8-4 ish. Hook your wagon to the wrong QB or Two and voila.
Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.
"If you hear Ric Flair is in town......WHOOOOO........you KNOW things are takin' place".
Ric Flair
For example, see: Morelli, Anthony
I was out in the trenches, which enables me to paint such a powerful picture, like Apocalypse Now.-Cormega
POST TITLE: Dashed by the NCAA?
More like:
Dashed by FSUs Blatant Disregard for the Most Basic Academic Rules
Since it’s all these sports, Bowden isn’t entirely to blame, but he has never had tight control of that program. Remember Foot Locker?
Also, I have never seen so many late hits in a football game as I did in the 2005 OB when we played them. They weren’t WAY late, but definitely after the whistle and away from the ball, just as guys were letting up. I was talking about it the whole game and finally got the FSU fan two rows in front of us to concede that it was no accident. Tough to see in a TV game, but live it’s unmistakable.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
- Benjamin Franklin
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