Nitt Picks Is Polite, But Snickering
Spring practice is over so Joe Paterno has been hitting the alumni circuit lately. Dubbed "An Evening with Joe Paterno", these are supposed to be intimate settings where Joe can speak to big donors giving them an inside look at the program. But of course reporters work their way in there in hopes of getting a sound bite in a rare moment when Joe lets his guard down. Then they publish Joe's comments as if the elder statesman has spoken from high atop the mountain to enlighten the masses.
I'm a little late to the party here, but earlier in the week Joe made a splash when he offered his comments on Big Ten expansion, a topic for which the media has been pushing for years.
"We go into hiding for six weeks," Paterno said, referring to the hiatus between the end of the Big Ten regular season and the BCS bowls. The other major FBS conferences play into the first weekend of December.
"Everybody else is playing playoffs on television," Paterno said. "You never see a Big Ten team mentioned. So I think that's a handicap.
"I've tried to talk to the Big Ten people about, 'Let's get a 12th team -- Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt -- we could have a little bit of a playoff.'"
I think it would be great to bring in Pitt, Rutgers, or Syracuse into the conference to give Penn State a more natural rivalry. But I'm sure the rest of the Big Ten would not agree. We're still the guy that barely made the guest list to the party as a favor to someone. Bringing in one of our former eastern rivals would be like bringing an uninvited guest to the country club. I can already hear the Michigan fans complaining about having to travel to New Jersey.
Of course Paterno knew these comments would get out, and he knew they would be readily dismissed. So he preemptively got in front of those who would discredit him and his ideas.
Asked what sort of response he had received, Paterno raised his eyebrows in a facial shrug.
"You know, it's a conference that's dominated by a couple of people," Paterno said. "If I start talking, they're polite, but they snicker.
"They don't know I know they're snickering, but they're polite. ...I wish I were younger and going to be around [another] 20 years."
So people are polite, but they snicker. Keep this in mind. Now let's read Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany's response.
Delany responded to Paterno's comments Monday, saying that while a league championship game has its benefits, particularly from a marketing perspective, expansion requires much more.
"It's not the reason you would expand," Delany told ESPN.com. He also said Paterno isn't the only Big Ten coach who has stumped for expansion in recent years.
That's a very polite answer. But am I the only one that can envision Delany snickering when he makes that comment?
But that's petty and beside the point. Let's look at Delany's reasoning for not expanding.
"The issue has come up with our football coaches a couple times -- with the extra week and if we did expand, would we be more competitive?" Delany said. "I would say in some years they might be right. But has it enhanced the competitiveness of the ACC in football? Has it enhanced the competitiveness of the WAC? I don't know.
"Just because you have a championship doesn't make you more competitive. It's about coaching the players. The SEC game has been a marketing bonanza. I wouldn't discount that. But others have struggled with it."
So championship games don't work as well in the ACC and WAC, so we shouldn't take a chance on them? I fail to see this short-sighted logic. The SEC game is a marketing bonanza because it usually features two teams ranked in the top ten in with the winner going to the national championship game. Plus they have Vern Lundquist and all of CBS hyping the game like it's the Super Bowl and talking about Tim Tebow like the kid can walk on water. Marketing determines the success of the game, and that is Jim Delany's job. Get the deal with Conseco Field and ESPN to broadcast the game on prime time television and it will be just as successful as the SEC game.
But Delany is correct that more has to be taken into consideration than just a football playoff. There are dozens of other sports that have to be taken into account. Forcing teams like Iowa, Indiana, and Illinois to send their swimming, field hockey, and wrestling teams to Syracuse or Rutgers would be more of a burden on their athletic department budgets when they are replacing local games those teams can usually bus to. And academics have to be considered as well. The Big Ten should not lower their academic standards just to get a football playoff game.
I applaud Delany for being selective. I don't want to pluck someone like Eastern Michigan or Akron just to get 12 teams, but I get the impression Delany is playing hard ball and holding out for Notre Dame. While the Irish would make a perfect fit, they clearly have another agenda...money. Their fat television contract has them sitting pretty. And the BCS pays them $1 million per year whether they go to a BCS game or not. They are in no way interested in giving up that money or sharing it with Delany.
So it's time for the Big Ten to move on. There are plenty of good schools out there that would make a good fit geographically and academically with the Big Ten. The fact is not having a conference championship game is a huge disadvantage. A one loss SEC team will always leapfrog a one loss Big Ten team due to the extra feather in their cap that the SEC championship game brings. The day may be coming when a one loss SEC team may leapfrog an undefeated Big Ten team. The media was already pushing for that last season when it appeared Penn State could go undefeated.
If and when that happens, we'll see who will be snickering then, Mr. Delany.
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125 comments
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Comments
Ummm...
The WAC doesn’t have a championship game…
Let's Go State!
by Gopher Broke on May 6, 2009 9:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I didn’t think that sounded right. And you gotta love how he picks a basketball conference and a mid-major conference, but chooses to ignore the SEC and Big 12.
Mike makes a really good point about the non-revenue sports having to travel to a place like Syracuse or Rutgers. Something does feel right about Rutgers in the Big 10 anyway. Notre Dame is the obvious choice, but maybe a school like Pitt or WVU makes some sense too.
And here’s the thing-a 1-loss SEC or Big 12 team is going to jump a 1-loss Big 10 team right now because the reputation of the Big 10 is so down right now. Not because we don’t have a championship game.
by speedomike on May 6, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
does = does not
Some thing does NOT feel right about Rutgers
by speedomike on May 6, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two advantages, many disadvantages
There are really only two advantages to having Rutgers in the Big11Ten:
NYC TV market
A “natural” rival for Penn State
I don’t see how that would help Rutgers though.
Also, WVU and Pitt don’t bring in any new TV markets like Penn State did with Philly and Pittsburgh.
Virginia Tech would make more sense than either of those and there is no way they are going to leave the ACC to play in a midwestern conference.
Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.
by WFY on May 6, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TV Markets
I just don’t think Rutgers is going to create this open gate into the NYC market. New York is a pro sports town. Nobody cares about Rutgers. If the Yankees or Mets make the playoffs nobody pays attention to football in October. And after that it’s all about the Giants and Jets. Rutgers has no tradition and a take ’em or leave ’em fanbase.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on May 6, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but
It means the game would be televised in NY instead of say, the ACC. It’d say a mostly disinterested NYC TV market probably has way more eyeballs than say, an interested Pittsburgh TV market.
Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.
by WFY on May 6, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, Rutgers is not easy to get to from NYC
Since many/most people living in NYC do not have cars, there’s not a quick and easy way to get to the stadium, such as PATH or lightrail. NJ transit trains run to the rutgers area (I think), but not that close to the stadium.
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on May 6, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not so much for NY'ers
In saying the NY market, this case pretty much means the North Jersey portion of it.
Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.
by WFY on May 6, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither WVU nor Va Tech qualifies...
WVU doesn’t meet the Big Ten’s academic standards and Va Tech isn’t in a state that borders any other Big Ten state, so they’re both out of the conversation.
Two schools that meet most of the criteria quite well are Rutgers and Maryland (the latter of which no one ever seems to bring up). They’re both flagship schools for their state. They’re both top notch academically. They both border PA. The downside is that they’re both in prime PSU recruiting territory. But that’s not a good reason to shy away from them. We’ll continue to recruit just fine regardless. In fact, the rivalry with either school, if it develops properly, should actually encourage more HS athletes to want to stay in the region, rather than migrating south for their college career.
Syracuse would work as well, though the city is kinda crappy and they play their football indoors.
by BSM PSU 93 on May 6, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maryland isn't leaving the ACC
From a TV market perspective, it’d nab D.C. and Baltimore which would be huge, but there is no way they leave the ACC. It would hurt basketball and football for opposite reasons.
FWIW, Maryland’s campus by the way, is slightly more charming than Rutgers.
Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.
by WFY on May 6, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
That’s definitely a concern… though I’m not so sure they wouldn’t sit down and take the time to carefully consider it. They lose so many top notch football recruits to us. If they could keep them in state, they could put together a nice little program there.
I’d add that, right now, Maryland is the northernmost program in the ACC. What’s the real difference in becoming the easternmost program in the Big Ten?
Basketball? They’d very quickly become a contender in the Big Ten, though they surely consider the ACC a more prestigious league. So, there’s that.
I don’t know… if I were their AD or their President, I’d have to seriously consider making the move.
by BSM PSU 93 on May 6, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maryland would have joined in 1993
but probably not today. Once Penn State left the de facto though never realized Eastern League, most of those schools, but Pitt and Maryland especially, really threw themselves into basketball. 20 years later there is no way they are giving up ACC basketball to be a midling Big Ten football team, which is essentially what they would be.
Keep in mind that when Penn State joined the league in 1992/1993 the basketball confrence was much more highly regarded that it is today too.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on May 6, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You and WFY are probably both right...
Despite the good fit (academically, geographically, institutionally), the move probably doesn’t make good sense for them at this time.
I’d add that Pitt, Syracuse, and Temple all definitely committed to basketball at the expense of their football programs. They’re all basketball schools. WVU and BC are football schools (though the latter has a very good basketball program as well). Rutgers is neither. Maryland wound up being a basketball school, though I’m not sure if it was really a purposeful move (in the way that Pitt, Syracuse, and Temple committed to it). It probably came more as a result of their membership in a conference (ACC) with an incredibly huge basketball tradition (e.g. UNC, Duke, Wake… even NC State) and little football tradition to speak of.
by BSM PSU 93 on May 6, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WVU's basketball program is good too
Doesn’t get the national recognition of the football team, probably b/c the Big East only has a handful of teams in football, but the WVU basketball team always seems to make the tourney.
by Screen Name 20 on May 6, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Actually, WVU has only been in the NCAA Tournament 12 times in the last 40 years or so… and that includes having made it four of the last five years. So, they’ve definitely experienced recent success, but I wouldn’t say they have a tradition of being a basketball school.
by BSM PSU 93 on May 6, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
In the 1990s, SU football was excellent (you didn’t notice, because we weren’t playing you guys then). And we made the NCAA finals in basketball in 1996. So this ‘comitted to basketball at the expense of football’ thing? Nonsense. In coach P’s last years and the GRob era, SU football was bad (and probably will be at least for the first year or two under Marrone), but that doesn’t mean we don’t care about it.
by drothgery on May 7, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't mean to split hairs,
but BC is the northernmost program in the ACC
For the glory
by lionalum05 on May 6, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Word up
Good call, dude… they’re so far north, I completely forgot about them.
by BSM PSU 93 on May 6, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WVU has no chance academically
And that’s according to the fans on their Scout board.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on May 6, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer Pitt
and academically speaking, isn’t Pitt a decent medical school? I have no way of knowing other than they seem to have a big medical community at UPMC.
Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno
by carolinaeasy on May 6, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WAC
The WAC used to have a championship game when it was a bloated 16 team conference (pre-MWC split) and it was a huge failure. So, it’s possible that Delany is referring to that.
Furthermore, if Delany wanted to talk about pointless football championship games, he could have also pointed to the MAC and Conf-USA.
by Laaaaazzz on May 6, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Delany should have said
is that Big Ten school don’t grow on trees. Penn State was a perfect fit in almost every single respect, and barely got in. Realistically, how the hell would Syracuse, Rutgers or Pitt going to get in? They’re wouldn’t. This is all wasted energy.
The only team there is any maner of concensus on is Notre Dame. So if that’s not gonna happen, well, Big Ten expansion is not going to happen for a while.
It’s pretty simple really.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on May 6, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pitt?
I fail to see how they don’t make sense in the Big Ten. Academically they would qualify. They’re further west than Penn State geographically. They have a decent football history and an automatic rivalry with one of the teams already in the conference. As for Big Ten basketball compared to Big East basketball – which conference sent a team to the championship game this past year? Big Ten basketball might not get the hype the big east does, but they are just as competitive.
What reason does Pitt not make sense? Because they aren’t located in Michigan, Indiana or Illinois?
by catesinator on May 6, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To further your point
The Big East actually hasn’t even sent a team to the final game of the NCAA tournament in the last five years, so to say that it is FAR AND AWAY the best conference is ridiculous.
The $$$ in college football is significantly more than in basketball so the biggest factor in all of this is football revenue, i don’t see basketball as being as big of a factor.
I think Pitt would be a good fit, and I don’t think that Rutgers or Syracuse are good enough in football to warrant an invitation. Rutgers could go back to being the perennial doormat that it was for decades anyday now (it will probably happen right when we pick them back up on the schedule) and Syracuse is a joke (although good enough for us to renew our series with them I guess.)
by mundyscorner99 on May 6, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again...
Syracuse wasn’t a joke when we scheduled them. They were coming off a 10 win season.
Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno
by ReadingRambler on May 6, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Forgot about that re: Syracuse. I guess sometimes it is luck of the draw when you schedule so far in advance.
by mundyscorner99 on May 6, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nonsense
we were clearly in decline; Dwight Freeney produced that 10-win season single-handedly. In the two years before that we were 6-5 and 7-5; the three years after that we were 4-8, 6-6, and 6-6.
by drothgery on May 7, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
10-3 is not a "joke"
And hell, 6-5 and 7-5 could be worse.
Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno
by ReadingRambler on May 7, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We sure didn't think that at the time
… and so seriously understimated Greg Robinson’s ability to make things worse.
by drothgery on May 7, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From 6-5 to 7-5 to 10-3…you declined upward?!?
by Screen Name 20 on May 7, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a one-year anamoly
… produced purely by Dwight Freeney’s awesomeness. And this was obvious at the time.
by drothgery on May 7, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
We absolutly should have anticipated Syracuse sucking. Does Jim Brown have any eligibility left?
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on May 8, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I think you (or rather, JoePa) did...
… I mean, you didn’t play us in the 1990s when we were good. We had two near-.500 seasons and one good season based entirely off of a unique, superlative player and suddenly you scheduled us again.
by drothgery on May 8, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Penn State has a long tradition
of kicking Syracuse’s ass. Syracuse has a long tradition of having one good player every ten years or so.
I mean, do you wanna play or not?
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on May 8, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So many of these reasons have been posted before
Prmiarly to say Big Ten basketball and Big East basketball are comperable is simply folly. One run in the NCAA tournament doesn’t change that fact in the slightest. Pitt is not going to forgo the four or five games a year they get to paly at MSG, and all of the other NYC exposure to take the wagon trail to Bloomington and have the Indiana fans look down their nose at them. The same thing I said about Maryalnd applies, there is no way Pitt is gving up Big Ten basketball to be a midling Big Ten football team.
Pitt belongs in the Big East, they are a Big East type school, and there is absolutly nothign wrong with that. There is no gound swell of people in Pittsburgh who think that Pitt should be in the Big Ten.
Pitt is a regional school. Pretty much everybody who goes to Pitt is from Western PA, and pretty much there entire alumni base lives in Pittsburgh.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on May 6, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitt
There’s no doubt that Pitt basketball has been very good over the past 7 or 8 years, but I think that most true Pitt fans would much rather have them be relevant in football over basketball.
by mundyscorner99 on May 6, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fans versus those who matter.
You’re right about the fans. But when you bulldoze your football stadium and build a basketball venue on top of it, somebody more important that the fans has gone on record as to what is more important.
If the University of Pittsburgh, and frankly their alumni base, really wanted to compete in football they could have renovated PItt Stadium, or replaced it with a new facility. There is precedednt for such a thing. Cincinnati, Louisville and Rutgers in their own league all undertook new stadium projects or extensive rennovations in the last fifteen or twenty years.
The decision however was that Heinz Field would be good enough, and that needed a new basketball venue with all the bells and whistles. They’ve reaped what they have sown. The football team is “good enough” by Big East standards and the basketball team has been a raging success.
Yes, it’s only been seven or eight years. Joe Paterno had only been the coach at Penn State for seven or eight years in 1973 too. Similalry, you may want to pull up a comfortable chair, because the future of Pitt athletics is football not basketball.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on May 6, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or basketball not football...doh!
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on May 6, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dang
I thought you were taking us on one of your vintage wild spins there at the end. Bummer.
Hey, this game is fun too and you can make it fun. --j. odrick
But I’m biased towards tailgating, as you may imagine. -ts
Ignore the accolades – just enjoy the games. -bb&w
by jtothep on May 6, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Valid points, but...
As many people on here have pointed out in the past, money overrules all in college sports. And while, yes, Pitt has chosen basketball over football as their focus, things could change down the road. Look at it from a financial aspect, I would estimate that PSU gets more revenue from 2 home football games than Pitt does in basketball AND football COMBINED, and over the course of a number of years, that tends to add up. Not to mention the Big 10 has more and much better bowl tie-ins & number of bowl participants than the Big East (plus they’ve recently been getting two BCS it seems every year-justified or not)…and there is a large difference in the amount of revenue-sharing from those bowls between the two conferences.
i agree that the fans are the last ones considered in terms of making decisions regarding athletics, whether it be Pitt, PSU, or pretty much any other program.
I would debate “raging success” in terms of Pitt basketball over the past decade, but they are much more successful than the football program. I work about a long Danny Morrissey 3 point shot away from the Pitt campus, and I know that it a great place to watch a hoops game. Piitsburgh is still a football town though and it is not out of the question that there would be a shift in their thinking, especially at the right price.
by mundyscorner99 on May 6, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure he'll still be snickering...
because knowing our luck it would happen to us and not OSU or Mich. Things in the conference will always be the same until they start affecting OSU and Mich. negatively.
And screw this money stuff, they need to play hardball. Notre Dame doesn’t need to play any Big 10 teams if they don’t want to be part of the conference. Send them a freakin open letter telling them that everyone knows they are the perfect fit and they should be with the Big 10. If they don’t want to, they can move on. Take away those 2-3 Big 10 teams they play and it hurts them regardless.
They either jump to get weaker competition, which will hurt them, or they get better competition that will destroy them while they are down. How long will Notre Dame’s contracts and independent attitude last when they suffer through a few more mediocre seasons? Weiss would be done and then it would take a new coach some time to fix his mess.
I was out in the trenches, which enables me to paint such a powerful picture, like Apocalypse Now.-Cormega
by OMEGAMAN on May 6, 2009 10:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Where's my pitchfork?
I’m with you. If Delany is serious about getting Notre Dame, he should tell Big Ten teams to stop scheduling them until they join. They already have half of a Big Ten schedule with Purdue, Michigan, and Michigan State playing them every year. They get the benefits of playing Big Ten teams without having to share the rewards. Take that away and make them fill their schedule with MAC teams or travel down south to play bottom feeder SEC and ACC teams to get their easy wins.
But really, as long as NBC is in their pocket they’ll be set. I can’t believe the network still has any interest in them.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on May 6, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the way the economy is going
if ND doesn’t shapen up and fly right I don’t think it’s too far-fetched to believe that NBC will tell ND to screw off. The contract is up in 2015 so it will be interesting to see if anything changes in a few years. If Weis gets fired and the new guy has to rebuild ND again I could totally see a move happening.
Kath?
by psuphiman80 on May 6, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope not, even with this talk about them being in the Big 10
I would love to see that contract dropped after an extra five years of suck and Fat Charlie getting fired. It’s a sick, sadistic pleasure, but it’s also ND, so it’s worth it.
by dawsonPSU10 on May 6, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As Neil McCauley would say
There is a flip side to that coin. Purdue, UM, MSU, etc get to put ND on their schedule without sharing 1/12th of the conference revenue. ND has value as a football attraction, and right now those schools get that value with little financial commitment. Big Ten membership comes with far more cost, but really very little in added value.
by Wlvrn99 on May 6, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming ND gets competitive again soon
Wouldn’t the big ten get more to add to the pot? Another BCS caliber team, and a championship game to bring in lots of dough? I feel like there wouldn’t be any less to go around because bringing in ND would only increase conference revnue with their bowl payouts and large mobile fan base.
Black Shoes.
Basic Blues.
No Name.
All Game.
by Roland86 on May 6, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bowl payouts
As it is the Big Ten gets two BCS bids most years. Can’t do any better than that. And our bowl tie-ins would stay the same. ND would just take someone else’s spot. We wouldn’t be growing the pie very much, and we’d have to cut an extra slice.
by Wlvrn99 on May 6, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
You get the added revenue from a championship game. How much is that? With ticket sales and an exclusive television deal I would think somewhere around $10 million.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on May 6, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For reference
The second at-large BCS team only gets $4.5 million I believe.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on May 6, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Which is what Notre Dame makes for a BCS bowl, which they’re guaranteed if they finish in the top 8 (effectively top 12, since at that point they can be selected).
The take home for a BCS team, after expenses and bowl revenue sharing, is about $2M.
by Screen Name 20 on May 6, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m willing to bet the Big Ten generates more than $115MM or so in annual revenue to share with member schools. That is roughly the breakeven point for adding a 12th school if there is $10MM in additional revenue.
115/11 = 10.45MM per
125/12 = 10.42MM per
by Wlvrn99 on May 6, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bowl games
I’d imagine we could potental upgrade the already good Big Ten bowl list by adding Notre Dame. Like adding a berth to the Cotton Bowl between the Citrus and Outback or mayeb adding the Gator Bowl somewhere. Admittedly, there’s not much room for the Big Ten to improve their bowl bids, but there is some and adding a 12th team (allowing for a bigger pool of teams in general) especially one with the following/history of ND would help the Big Ten’s negotiating position with bowls.
by Laaaaazzz on May 6, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OSU/Michigan
I love how PSU fans attribute anything they don’t like about the Big Ten to the fact that Michigan and OSU get special treatment.
Michigan has been negatively impacted by the lack of a conference championship game many times. Aside from 2006, when they dropped from #2 to #3 because Florida got to play another game while Michigan was idle, there were a handful of times in the 90s where the “longest Rose Bowl drought” tie-breaker cost them a trip to Pasedena. UW also sailed in at least once based on scheduling (ie not playing OSU).
Not everything bad that happens to PSU is a Big Ten/Michigan/officiating conspiracy. There just isn’t a school out there that fits the Big Ten, and I’m including ND. And if there was, Delaney wouldn’t say no just to spite PSU.
by Wlvrn99 on May 6, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh, I dont take it as far to blame UM and OSU, but...
PSU is definitly an oustider and is the least of a fit in the Big Ten. Not in the midwest, most recent member. Think about it, PSU was brought in because it was a juggernaut as an independant and let the Big Ten expand their market, it was perfect for them, we just felt the need to not be left in the cold when all the conference shake up stuff was happening.
Oh and Lloyd Carr can suck my balls, 05 was bullshit and at least 2 times in 02 the refs sucked, which you may or may not know is largely the reason the Big Ten was the first to get instant replay.
Black Shoes.
Basic Blues.
No Name.
All Game.
by Roland86 on May 6, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and ill readily admit
There are definitly PSU fans who are probably upset that joining a conference stopped our ability to win 10+ games every year, our at least so far.
And nobody likes losing a bunch to UM, nobody, but at least that is laid to bed now.
Black Shoes.
Basic Blues.
No Name.
All Game.
by Roland86 on May 6, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not everything
but certainly somethings.
Michigan and Ohio State, and the rest of the Big Ten screwed us in 1994 and it was nothing more than stone cold jealosy over the fact that we ran the table in “your” league, something neither of you had done in twenty years, we did in two Your guys all voted for Nebraska and that cost us a National Title that we earned, plain and simple. The voting was quite a bit different whn Michigan was in our place. It was bullshit, and we’ll let it drop when we get a letter of apology from every other school in the Big Ten whose ass we kicked up and down the field in 1994.
You know what, screw the apology, just admit it and that will be good enough for me.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on May 6, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Here Here!!!!
I agree that was the biggest bunch of bullshit ever!
Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno
by carolinaeasy on May 6, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Notre Dame
Anyone know off the top of their heads how long their TV contract is for? Is it redone one a yearly basis?
Is it possible that if ND keeps sucking for a few more years, they’ll eventually lose such privileges? Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but that’s probably your best chance at getting them into the Big 10.
by smashtheguitar on May 6, 2009 10:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure
But I think they just signed a deal through 2013.
It can’t last forever. Some day NBC is going to decide they want to do something else. Part of me thinks they keep carrying Notre Dame because it means they get to televise games with Michigan and USC too.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on May 6, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
There’s always rumors that NBC isn’t going to renew their contract whenever they suck (ratings drop way off), but they always seem to put in a good season just in time to get renewed.
by Brett Brown on May 6, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's an Idea
Why doesn’t the Big10 get NBC on its side and get a TV contract with them and screw ABC/ESPN. Align them with the big10network to show all the games every weekend. This will grow the big10network and help get NBC to bring ND into the conference. I’ve seen the writing on the wall with ABC/ESPN anyway, currently we get to see all big10 home games on either ABC/ESPN or the big10network, but ESPN just signed a deal with the SEC so they will probably favor them over us in a few years anyway.
by whiteoutonly on May 6, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, yeah, pissing off the Mouse ain’t such a good idea given ESPN’s control of sports info. And having games on ESPN/ESPN2 is a good thing in general for exposure.
That said, I think you could make a case where the Big Ten moves their network games to NBC (assuming NBC would be interested) from ABC but keeps the secondary games on ESPN/ESPN2 and tertiary games on the BTN. Don’t know how Disney would react though.
by Laaaaazzz on May 6, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
CBS gets the best SEC game every week and it doesn’t stop ESPN from still slobbing their nob. My plan would only work if the BTN grows into something the level of say ESPN2, where the BTN network is to NBC as ESPN/ESPN2 is to ABC.
When you say the ESPN controls sports info that is only partly true. The Big10 is the conference with the most fans and we have a lot of pull, put lately we have been letting ESPN walk all over us with their SEC and Big12 propaganda. The Big10 product is very sought after and if it was on a non ABC network people would still watch.
Hell, i’m not everyone but I switched to DirecTV just so I could get those 2 games a year on the BTN an their overflow channels. And the DirecTV was cheaper than cable anyway.
by whiteoutonly on May 6, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, its unfortunately dangerous to anger the wwl.
Just ask the NHL! They re not on espn anymore and they went to NBC (apparently) and some start up cable channel too and that’s worked out great! Who had hat tricks a few nights ago that I didn’t see? Oh yeah the two BIGGEST stars of the league.
"Even though it was bouncing, I knew it was so soft that it was just going to stay in," Battle said. "Then I ran around like a lunatic."
by bconway6 on May 6, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm liking the new avatar...
now if we could only get you to use the other screen name to match the avatar
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on May 6, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm kind of attached to the other bacon twins
on the other name, but I’ll do what I can to keep a mix of the two going.
Cant give in entirely to the internets peer pressures and all, next thing I know I’ll be stalking blogs all day…“come on, there might be an update you can go ahead and check it out”
"Even though it was bouncing, I knew it was so soft that it was just going to stay in," Battle said. "Then I ran around like a lunatic."
by bconway6 on May 6, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
missouri
would anyone think missouri would make a good fit?
yeah, i know ripping them from the big 12 would be difficult at best.
World F#$king Champions
by psudrozz on May 6, 2009 10:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hell
we could even switch conference names
World F#$king Champions
by psudrozz on May 6, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To keep with our roots, the new conference would be called the Big TwelevEN
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on May 6, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha
Seriously, I think a very small part of this might have to do with Delany not wanting to change the name of the conference.
Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno
by ReadingRambler on May 6, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rust Belt Conference
?
Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno
by ReadingRambler on May 6, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that hard
It’s kind of known that Missouri has not been happy in the Big XII. The Big XII north is not very competitive and doesn’t get nearly as much publicity as the Big XII south does.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on May 6, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Missouri
I may be in the minority, but they would bolster both basketball and football, have solid academics, and would have a nice rivalry with NW (the J-Bowl for the top two journalism programs). Plus they would get more media attention being away from the Big 12 South like Mike just said.
by STU Boy on May 6, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the J-Bowl?
you better watch out, we’ll have some of our guys transferring out thinking they’re gonna get a trophy that has a j and a bowl attached to it
For the glory
by lionalum05 on May 6, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Missouri has been
my choice for Big10 for some time now. I think they are a better fit than ND in many ways. Someone in another thread said they have a seething hatred for all things Illini – that would be fun.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
by rahpsu92 on May 6, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh
As a PSU fan, my main hope out of expansion is to add another eastern team to make PSU less of an outlier and give us a better end of season “rival” to play. Or at least if we add Notre Dame, we get the benefit of playing them every year. If we end up adding a team like Missouri, I’d just as soon stay at 11 teams. Nothing against Mizzou, who is perfectly fine, but I don’t want to see the Big Ten expand just for the sake of expanding.
by Laaaaazzz on May 6, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would obviously want to see an Eastern team added
for similar reasons, but if they divided the conference into the Big Twelven East/West then we wouldn’t have to go out west quite as often (just 3 games per year, rotating through the West).
Of course it depends on how exactly they would want to divide the conference, since they might not want PSU, OSU, and Michigan all in the same division, but probably wouldn’t want to split up the yearly OSU vs Michigan matchup.
by The JuggerNitt on May 6, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
19 comments in less than 20 minutes
I just thought I’d point that out. You’ve built quite a community here, man.
Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno
by ReadingRambler on May 6, 2009 10:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What's funny
Is that that’s pretty slow by this place’s standards.
Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno
by ReadingRambler on May 6, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what is even funnier is that by the time I got to this post
I’ve probably already read through 60 or so comments
by The JuggerNitt on May 6, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Pot bust post
Pretty much broke the speed record for comments.
by dawsonPSU10 on May 6, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about the logo?
We’d have to change up the logo….and a 2 will not fit into the words “BigTen”
I want a school to join the Big Ten that:
1. Wants to join
2. Deserves to join
3. Would make our conference better
PSU Softball
by QBsneak12 on May 6, 2009 10:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
stupid question?
but why can’t ND join the BigTen and keep their NBC contract?
by WETSU on May 6, 2009 10:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well
because the big ten has an exclusive contact with abc/big ten network
but the real barrier is not on which network is broadcasting nd – but nd’s share.
by PSUgirl on May 6, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would think
eventually NBC will get tired of paying millions of dollars for a 7-5 or 6-6 squad with an occisional 9-3 mixed in for good measure. The juice is not worth the squeeze anymore.
PSU Softball
by QBsneak12 on May 6, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if they still have enough eyeballs watching the game
it makes sense. It must make sense for NBC from a business perspective, or they obviously wouldn’t keep renewing the contract.
by Screen Name 20 on May 6, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I almost wish that they'd let ND join the conference
and keep it’s NBC deal exclusively (and keep the revenue from it). With games broadcast on the home team’s network, as currently is the case. To me it would seem like a win-win for everyone.
More Big 10 teams play against popular ND, so their home games get more viewership (increased ABC/ESPN/BTN ratings), meanwhile ND’s schedule becomes more interesting (increased NBC ratings). Everyone makes more money, but the Big 10 doesn’t make as much money as they’d probably feel they “deserve” despite still making more money than they were prior to the deal. Then if/when ND/NBC end their contract, they can come into the ABC/ESPN/BTN deal, and share like everyone else. Heck, they could even try to negotiate in a time period where they would have to give up the NBC contract (like say through 2020, or even later).
by The JuggerNitt on May 6, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Delany
I think we are missing the real issue at hand and Tim Curley is truly to blame for all this!
by cjj127 on May 6, 2009 10:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Iowa is to blame too
I bet you Iowa’s officials are the people that JoePa referred to when he said that only a few people control the Big Ten. I can see Ferentz and their AD snickering behind JoePa’s back right now. Down with Iowa!!!!
by RNF18 on May 6, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True. Very true
Hell, the entire world is controlled by a cabal of corn farmers based out of Des Moines.
Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno
by ReadingRambler on May 6, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're in it with the aliens!
Didn’t the Dead Milkmen warn us about that or something
Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.
by WFY on May 6, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TEXAS
I saw that Mack Brown pic and I thought someone might have thought of it…
Texas would more than offset any lost cost, and it fits perfectly in every way (except borders). It also opens Texas up for recruiting. Texas could keep its rivalry with OU, and the Big XII could pick up TCU. Everyone is (at least sorta) happy.
Especially me, because I hate Texas. And they would lose a lot more often in the Big Ten.
by psume06 on May 6, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Since I live 2 hours from Austin
I wholeheartedly endorse this idea.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on May 6, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way
Would be cool though.
Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno
by ReadingRambler on May 6, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
While Texas may be a good fit for the Big Ten, the Big Ten is a horrible fit for Texas. They have nothing to gain by leaving the Big XII.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on May 6, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about USC?
Or the Green Bay Packers? That’s it, the Packers would be perfect, they’d be a natural rival for Wisconsin and everything.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on May 6, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Steelers!
Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno
by ReadingRambler on May 6, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Then we could party with these fans:

Hey, this game is fun too and you can make it fun. --j. odrick
But I’m biased towards tailgating, as you may imagine. -ts
Ignore the accolades – just enjoy the games. -bb&w
by jtothep on May 6, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just in Wisconsin last month
And I didn’t see anything remotely close to this.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on May 7, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure you did
well, at least the same mass and width of this…unfortunately it was only one woman
by The JuggerNitt on May 8, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Texas
Texas would be an awesome addition, but the only motivation I could see for the Longhorns is a more academically appropriate conference (theortically improving Texas’ rep by association) and the CIC combined with the potential for more shared conference revenue. Adding Texas would make a huge difference to the BTN’s bottom line and make negotiations with TV networks and advetisers much more lucrative for the Big Ten.
But, yeah, I don’t see it happening.
by Laaaaazzz on May 6, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A General Question Mildly Pertaining to the Subject at Hand
Do you think conference championship games are inevitable in the future of college football?
Half of the BCS conferences have conference championship games, and both Rose Bowl conferences’ fan bases have shown interest in expanding to 12 and adding a championship game. It simplifies the BCS process, and may make for a nice weekend of football.
The problem would be the Big East, I have no idea what to do with them. Would they lose their BCS bid? I don’t see enough quality football programs in their region for them to add, and it wouldn’t be fair to the other conferences to allow an 8-team conference automatic access. Note: I’m not saying they should lose the bid because they suck, conference strength is cyclical.
They're after our precious bodily fluids
by chowder on May 6, 2009 1:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Even if we added someone
the division alignments would be a mess. If you cut it reasonably east/west or north/south you end up with 3 or 4 of the best teams in the same division. Now obivously teams can come and go competitively, but face it, the big ten is very top heavy. I would hate to have a divisional alignment that causes the whole Big12 south situation to happen.
Black Shoes.
Basic Blues.
No Name.
All Game.
by Roland86 on May 6, 2009 1:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If push comes to shove...
We could decide to not base the layout solely on geographic reasons.
Let’s say we add Notre Dame. We’ll name the divisions after Union generals, and go with something like…
William T. Sherman Division:
Michigan
Ohio State
Wisconsin
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
Winfield S. Hancock Division:
Penn State
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Minnesota
Northwestern
Iowa
Or something like that.
Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno
by ReadingRambler on May 6, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I speak for everyone when I say this- WHY IN THE HELL DID YOU PUT IOWA IN OUR DIVISION!?
I want them far away.
Penn Staters belong at Penn State. The problem with a lot of kids is they just don’t know they are Penn Staters yet. -jesse. @ BSD
by TheK-GunNeedsReloaded on May 6, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine, fine, we’ll take those guys in Madison instead.
Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno
by ReadingRambler on May 6, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here it is
Div. A.
Michigan, Ohio State, Illinois, Purdue, Michigan State, Northwestern
Div. B
Penn State, TBD, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Indiana.
Six Protected Cross Division games
Michigan vs. Minnesota
Ohio State vs. Penn State
Illinois vs. Iowa
Purdue vs. Indiana
Michigan St. vs. TBD
Northwestern vs. Wisconsin
The only trophy game lost is the Land Grant Trophy, and the nonsensical Illinois/Indiana protected game is eliminated as well.
You play two additional teams from the other division every year, and three teams rotate off.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on May 6, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like it
Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno
by ReadingRambler on May 6, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not really geared at geography at all
It’s geared at making sure everybody gets to play their really super important can’t miss it ever rivalry game that nobody else on the planet cares about.
That’s a lot tougher than it sounds.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on May 7, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like it, but I also don't
this is basically an East/West conference, but with Penn State thrown into the West.
by The JuggerNitt on May 6, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I approve of PSU in the west.
But then again its just selfishness PSU being a bit closer to home a few times a year.
"Even though it was bouncing, I knew it was so soft that it was just going to stay in," Battle said. "Then I ran around like a lunatic."
by bconway6 on May 6, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Big12 is stupid
They should be like the SEC where you have an auto rival from the opposite div that you play every year. (for example Auburn and UGA) That way Okla and Nubraska could still play every year. How dumb were they busting up that rivalry.
For example in the Big10 if we added ND I would slit it into north and south:
South:
PSU
OSU
Ind
Purdue
Ill
NU
North:
UM
MSU
ND
Wisc
Minn
Iowa
Auto cross div rivals:
UM-OSU
ND-Purdue
PSU-MSU
and the any combo of the other six
The only problem with this is you could end up playing your auto rival again the the conf champ game.
by whiteoutonly on May 6, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Michigan and Ohio State would never go with that. It just wouldn’t happen.
Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno
by ReadingRambler on May 6, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, they NEED to be in the same division
for sake of THE GAME.
I don’t really understand the logic there. If in opposite divisions with an automatic rival, you’ll still play the other team, and you might get to play them again in the championship. That’s a chance for double-the-hate.
by Screen Name 20 on May 6, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because, like, they’re the MARQUEE MATCHUP, and they can’t play twice because that would “cheapen” the rivalry.
Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno
by ReadingRambler on May 6, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did this once
I split the teams into two divisons, then added protected games from across the divisions, and saved every single current protected series and trophy game save Penn State and Michigan State. I can be done, we get the new team no matter who it is though.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on May 6, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It can be done...
East Division: PSU, OSU, IU, Purdue, Pitt, NW
West Division: Michigan, MSU, Wisc, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota
Seems pretty balanced to me. Go back and look at the records in this decade. The Eastern division would have a total of 371 wins and the Western Division would have a total of 373 wins and from a geographic standpoint it would mostly make sense.
East division you’d have your general doormats of IU and NW, Pitt & Purdue are basically on the same level of average team and PSU and OSU are the headliners.
West Division you’d have a little more balance with Michigan (assuming they rebound), Wisconsin and Iowa all solid teams. MSU seems to be up and coming. Minny and Illinois are the perennial doormats.
by catesinator on May 6, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally I'm not sold on the conference championship thing
I think the main problem is that we don’t play late enough and loose a lot of exposure. Plus its football weather and we should be playin’. This is going to be addressed with the bye week coming in 2010. I think the bye week is overdue and will help.
by markpsu on May 6, 2009 1:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just to throw it in the mix...
Friends over at WWAHT discussed the idea of expansion as well. He’s on board with adding one more, and goes through some ideas for teams and divisions.
I, for one, am holding out for the powerhouse of Ball State. Either that, or just wait a few more years, and when I’ve got the Marquette football program up and running, I’ll start pushing to jump into the Big Ten. And then I’ll start requesting we make the change to the Big ZUG Conference…
"...You know, Reemer, someday I'm gonna own a big sports bar."
by IcersGuy on May 6, 2009 4:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: MAC teams
I don’t want to pluck someone like Eastern Michigan or Akron just to get 12 teams
Miami of Ohio actually isn’t a huge stretch if the conference ever gets to the point of needing a 12th team for purely logistical/financial reasons and can’t poach ND or another major conference team.
They’re the most highly-regarded public university in Ohio academically and they’ve had enough historical success in football and basketball that they could conceivably build Big Ten-level programs.
Cheer for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on May 6, 2009 8:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
also, I'm sure there are enough people
that would mistake them for the real Miami
by The JuggerNitt on May 8, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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