PIAA 6A Expansion

by fugimaster24 on May 6, 2009 2:11 PM EDT Comment 34 comments

As some of you might know, the PIAA is seeking to expand the number of classifications for PIAA football from 4 to 6. The WPIAL is opposed to this, and has gone as far as to say they'd pull out of the PIAA playoffs going forward should the plan pass through a 3rd vote (More reading here, here, and here).

Anyone have any opinions/insight on this one way or the other? I think it's really shorting the WPIAL in a lot of ways, from forcing them to not play their championship games at Heinz Field to taking 3 of the last 4 state champions in AAAA out of the state's top division in the future.

Anyone?

P.S. If you thought Terrelle Pryor was gonna suck because he was coming out of AA, imagine what a disadvantage a great player in AA will be at now...

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What's the big deal?

Texas, Florida, and California all have it, so why can’t PA? I think it benefits everyone. I played at a school that was 4A in football and 3A in everything else and we got our ass handed to us. This could truly prove that PA is a powerhouse in football.

by cjj127 on May 6, 2009 2:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

There are millions more people in those states than PA. 2000 Census:
State 2000 Census Population

California 33,871,648
Texas 20,851,820
New York 18,976,457
Florida 15,982,378
Illinois 12,419,293
Pennsylvania 12,281,054

by InScoresOfOtherGames on May 6, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not gonna happen

Thee’s no reason to make 2 additional classifications. I’m not aware of any overcrowding in any particular classification that would justify this move.

by RNF18 on May 6, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

One possibility to make additional classes may be to separate the recruiting Catholic schools from the rural schools they play…but I really don’t know

by pmm156 on May 6, 2009 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely!

It’s ridiculous that something hasn’t already been done about this. There are single-A catholic schools in PA that “recruit” from up to six or seven neighboring school districts and basically dominate their competition. Heck, look at the A and AA playoffs in football and basketball every damn year… it’s full of catholic schools because their student bodies consist of students from a geographic area five times the size of their public school counterparts.

Frankly, catholic schools should have to play one division above the one they’re categorized in. I don’t know what you’d do with AAAA catholic schools, but that’s neither here nor there to me. It’s the small public schools that get the royal screw job in the current system.

by BSM PSU 93 on May 7, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Coming from Bucks County...

I’m for this. We have one high school in the area (North Penn) that has/had a very strong football program, even though they come from a smaller school district than mine (Central Bucks). How is this possible? They stuff all of the kids into one high school at North Penn, whereas we split our district into three high schools (East, West, and South, and “North” will be built in a decade or so) – this meant that they had a much bigger pool of students to draw from. North Penn took advantage of the fact that there was no upper limit for high school enrollment; adding two “XL” leagues would take away that loophole (or at least reduce it).

by Sevay on May 6, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

also from Bucks County...

and we have 2 power houses…North Penn and Neshaminy…

They are the PSU/OSU of the big 10.

PSU Softball

by QBsneak12 on May 6, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

CB West wasn't too shabby

though maybe I’m just bitter, being from CB East (both schools were good when I was there)

by The JuggerNitt on May 6, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

...and I went to the Indiana of that group...

William Tennent.

by stonewall435 on May 6, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Does that make me Illinois?

Or is there a better analogy for Pennridge?

"...You know, Reemer, someday I'm gonna own a big sports bar."

by IcersGuy on May 6, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow

Id never thought id see shots taken at pennridge on here. At least someone know who they are. Makes me a little homesick just thinking about it.

"I've gotto go with PSU. Ill make that pick every year till I die, and eventually it's gonna happen. Hear me now."- LL Cool J

by psuaar on May 7, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think pennridge is actually more like coastal carolina than a big 10 school

"I've gotto go with PSU. Ill make that pick every year till I die, and eventually it's gonna happen. Hear me now."- LL Cool J

by psuaar on May 7, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha...what can I say?

Even though I’m a Pennridge alum, I can’t help but mock it sometimes. :)

"...You know, Reemer, someday I'm gonna own a big sports bar."

by IcersGuy on May 7, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

CB West = Iowa
CB East = Minnesota (hated rivals, and we did beat West for the first time in two decades when I was there)

by Sevay on May 7, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My alma mater has the biggest pool of all to draw from

and we can’t get our crap together lately so having a huge pool to draw players from isn’t the be all, end all.

Red Knights!!! Red Knights!!!

by RNF18 on May 8, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Knighttime!!
Where can I get “The Season” on DVD?

by InScoresOfOtherGames on May 6, 2009 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm from Upper St. Clair

and i’m pretty sure that we have the 41st biggest enrollment of the 43 WPIAL AAAA teams, and yet we’re one of the strongest football programs in the state.

I didn’t know that the current PIAA system was broken. Even with 6—or hell 10—divisions, some team is still going to be the smallest in any given division and it may seem unfair.

I respect Tim McConnell—he’s running the wpial now, right?—for standing up to the PIAA. I don’t really care that much about this, but I suppose I’d be disappointed if I learned that we now have six divisions in PIAA football.

What’s the argument for going to six? More revenue at playoffs, I guess?

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on May 7, 2009 12:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

No inherent advantages at all at USC. Who cares about enrollment, it’s tax basis that matters.

"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008

by jesse. on May 7, 2009 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ummm

I don’t really know what you’re saying, I guess.

Are you trying to argue that USC has a good football program because the taxes are high or the parents are wealthy? That’s insane.

USC’s football program is good mainly because of Jim Render, and yes, six figures is a bit much for a gym teacher, but other programs have bought coaches in the past and it doesn’t necessarily translate into success.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on May 7, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's funny

It seems like you know exactly what I’m saying, which is that USC is good because it is one of the richest suburbs in Pittsburgh and can afford to pay (and chooses to pay) a “gym teacher” as much money to coach their football team as Cael Sanderson gets to coach Penn State’s wrestling team.

USC is no small, underdog, little engine that could school. It’s a public school with better funding than most private schools get that has a good football team. My guess is more than a couple of kids have moved the 25 feet it takes to get from Bethel or South Park into USC just to play football there. There is nothing wrong with that, I went to one too, it’s just full disclosure on I went to (one of) the smallest schools in AAAA and we’re awesome so you can be too statement.

"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008

by jesse. on May 7, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not that funny

I don’t know of any standout usc players that moved to the district in order to play football there. I know of a number of families, like mine, that chose to move to USC and pay higher taxes, etc, to send their kids to a top notch academic schools, but that decision is usually made when you’re much younger. And as someone who grew up going to Catholic grade school with kids from Bethel, and then later played hoops at Bethel when fans chanted, “rich kids suck,” let me tell you, I lot of the USC rich is bs.

I grew up in a house that was smaller—and less well furnished—than half the kids in Bethel. I’m not saying I grew up poor, I’m just saying that families in Bethel and Peters and Mt. Lebonan have plenty of cash too.

Yes, USC has tremendous resources. But I don’t think those resources de facto translate into a great football program. North Allegheny is just as wealthy, has more kids, and, on average, a worse football program.

I think its crazy to argue that money is a determining factor in public high school football.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on May 7, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll Back You Up

I live in Bethel, and I know for a fact Jeff Metheny is the highest paid teacher in the school. He makes 6 figures just like Render, so to suggest that USC is doing anything dramatically different than anyone else in AAAA South (Great Southern if you wanna be fancy) is ridiculos. The truth is, all the schools in that league, Bethel, St. Clair, and Lebo all do that kinda stuff, so in my mind its fair game. Of course, when you’re comparing the AAAA South to the rest of the state, it might not be as fair, considering that one section has put three different teams in the state title game in the last five years. Plus, you’re also competing with money machine Central Catholic and behomoth Gateway in AAAA, so its not like most AAAA schools don’t have the money St. Clair has. I’d say, for the most part, we’re all on a level playing field.

O, but I can’t let you off the hook completely. You can’t spell suck without USC.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on May 7, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's crazy to argue that money is a determining factor?

Wow, that’s just wild.

Of course resources, and the willingness to use them, are a determining factor. Certainly not the sole factor, but obviously a contributing factor. Obviously money does not “de facto” translate into wins, but if money isn’t a contributing factor, how do you explain it? The Water? The genetic superiority of the Upper St. Clair athlete? Come on, it’s coaching and resources. Couple those with a commitment to win, and you’re going to be successful.

"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008

by jesse. on May 7, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"money does not 'de facto' translate into wins"

for proof, see: Notre Dame Fighting Irish

ok, that’s 2 random ND/Weis bashing posts in about as many minutes. Let’s hope I can find another message that gives me an excuse to go for the trifecta

by The JuggerNitt on May 7, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"A" Division

These rumors have been around for the past 15 years, so I doubt that it will come true now, but if it were to come true, I would expect only one new classification and that would be the separation of the “A” and “AA” Division because of the huge differences in schools like in District 3, where Scotland School is in the same division as Waynesboro because of how the Mid-Penn sets up its conference, even though Scotland has 74 males in the school, and Waynesboro has 575, or even another “A” school like Fairfield, which has 171 males.

by mahaffe on May 7, 2009 7:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey

You’re posting close to home. I’ve never seen anybody on here namedrop the Boro. Are you a grad of one of those schools? What class?

Hey, this game is fun too and you can make it fun. --j. odrick
But I’m biased towards tailgating, as you may imagine. -ts
Ignore the accolades – just enjoy the games. -bb&w

by jtothep on May 7, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Waynesboro

I remember reading in The Lion in Autumn that Rip Engle got his start at the HS there. I think it said he won a couple of state championships.

Anyway, just thought that was interesting.

Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno

by ReadingRambler on May 7, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Check out the big brain on Brett

He did indeed. A few years back, the Boro named the ‘stadium’ there Rip Engle Field. Or something like that. Not sure about the state championships tho. My grandfather played high school football for Rip Engle and his daughters (my mom and aunt) started going to PSU around the time JoePa took over from Rip. I think he really respected how much Joe respected Rip and coached from the same value system. It all made for a nice environment of Respect for jtothep to grow up in.

Hey, this game is fun too and you can make it fun. --j. odrick
But I’m biased towards tailgating, as you may imagine. -ts
Ignore the accolades – just enjoy the games. -bb&w

by jtothep on May 7, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just checked his bio on GOPSU

They were conference championships, not state championships. I thought so, but I wasn’t sure.

Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno

by ReadingRambler on May 7, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And BTW

That’s a great story. Not a whole lot of people who can say their grandfather played for Rip before he even got to State College.

Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno

by ReadingRambler on May 7, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can say it

My grandfather played for Rip before he even got to State College.

Not true, but I can say it.

by The JuggerNitt on May 7, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My father was a centurion in the S.P.Q.R Legio IV. He was one of the first men to be killed by Graham Zug.

Have a "great HD day!" - Jay Paterno

by ReadingRambler on May 7, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for Recognizin, Rambler

U ain’t half bad for a Pens fan.

Hey, this game is fun too and you can make it fun. --j. odrick
But I’m biased towards tailgating, as you may imagine. -ts
Ignore the accolades – just enjoy the games. -bb&w

by jtothep on May 8, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs