Nitt Picks Humbly Accepts Its Underdog Status
by Run Up The Score on Aug 12, 2009 10:12 AM EDT
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Lest Ye Be Judged. The next date of interest in the Florida State forfeit appeal is November 15, when FSU will go before the NCAA Infraction Appeals Committee.
FSU delivered on July 1 its rebuttal of the Committee on Infractions' response to the school's appeal in the academic misconduct case involving 61 student athletes taking an online music class.
...
[FSU A.D. Randy] Spetman said Nov. 15 is not a hard date for the hearing. Once FSU meets before the Infractions Appeals Committee, that committee would have at least another four to six weeks before a final decision is reached.
So, hey, good luck with all of that. Florida State season ticket sales are down 13%, due to what is more than likely a combination of fan dissatisfaction and economic ugliness. And speaking of finances...
Show David Jones The (Lack Of) Money! He'd like to know if Penn State's dull non-conference schedule is affecting the likelihood of midstate residents driving up scenic Rt. 322 to Happy Valley this season.
Does the fact that Penn State essentially has four pushovers on its home schedule -- Akron, Syracuse, Temple and FCS entry Eastern Illinois -- make any difference as to whether you will spend the money on gas, food and, uh, lubricants to make the trip.
I want to hear from you either way. If you basically don't care who the PSU opponent is and just enjoy the beautiful venue and friends and Saturdays in the early fall outdoors, then I want to hear your thoughts about that.
Uh, lubricants, indeed. What goes on in those RV's? I personally doubt it has much of an effect. Are people happy about playing Eastern Illinois? Well, no, but that stadium will still be 95% full. If there was an economic squeeze at play here, it would've affected season ticket renewal rates, and Penn State's was 98% this year. Might some people take a car instead of an RV? Maybe, but the schedule doesn't have anything to do with it. People have been showing up to watch Penn State throttle inferior September opponents for decades -- the weather, the tailgating, and the simple fact that football has returned is enough to overlook the presence of a directional patsy on the opposing sideline.
Border Folly. It's all Ohio all the time, if you've been reading much in the way of Big Ten previews. As Hinton points out, just about everyone except Phil Steele is picking the Buckeyes to win the Big Ten this season.
Nine of the 11 outlets tracked by Stassen.com break for the Buckeyes as the top team in the conference, all of . In other national polls not tracked by Stassen, Ohio State comes out in front of Penn State according to Rivals, ESPN's Mark Schlabach and the preseason coaches' poll.
That's fine, Ohio State is going to be very good, and TJLYOM. Rittenberg picks Ohio State, too. This Buckeye blogger says Penn State will lose to both Illinois and (naturally) Ohio State. In fact, here's a little challenge for you. Find me an Ohio State beat writer or blogger who thinks that Penn State will beat Ohio State this season, because I sure haven't read one yet. Seems weird, considering that Ohio State rang up a combined nine points against Penn State and USC last season.
Which reminds me, what's scarlet and gray and can move 15 yards in four plays against a non-hitting defense?
It's the Terrelle Pryor two-minute offense, of course!
| Ohio State runs a two-minute drill during practice |
That video is from Doug Lesmerises of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. He's taken some heat both here and elsewhere about his predictions for last year's PSU team, but at least he's owning it now, and suggesting that the league do a better job of promoting Joe Paterno and PSU:
Have you heard? Penn State coach Joe Paterno, 82, has won a lot of football games. Maybe you think he should retire, though that talk fades with every win. While he's arguably the face of college football, the Big Ten should be highlighting their legend's experience and expertise every day of the season.
If you've got it, flaunt it.
Example: Joe Paterno fact of the day: Did you know that Paterno has more seasons as Penn State's head coach, 43, than the 12 SEC head coaches have at their schools combined -- 37? Did you know that Paterno is crushing those SEC coaches in total wins at their current schools, 383 to 284?
I was flagrantly wrong when I thought the Nittany Lions were headed downhill last season. It turns out JoePa never goes out of style.
That's from an article about rehabbing the Big Ten's reputation, which has only been written 10,000 times in the past nine months (including by yours truly, in "We Are Penn State" BUY BUY BUY.)
In Scores Of Other Games. According to his father, OSU receiver and headcase Ray Small is expected to return to the Buckeyes pending a grade change in one of his classes, and the story sounds an awful lot like "let my academic advisor write a paper in my name and please give me a D+." Daryll Clark and Stefen Wisniewski are on the regional cover of SI's college football preview. A closer look at PSU's offensive line.
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Will season ticket holders go to all of the pre-season games?
Maybe not, but thanks to the ticket exchange and stubhub and craigslist, you can pretty much bet that someone will be in those seats for the games.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 12, 2009 10:33 AM EDT reply actions
um, I will
but I drink lots of kool aid
"If you let the men in you've got to let the women in. I don't want a bunch of women walking around in my locker room when guys take showers". Joe Paterno
When will this be available
as a t-shirt in Black Shoe Shirts and Pants?
Phil
is it bad
that i got TJLYOM before i clicked the link?
Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance
that two minute drill.....
looked familier…..where have i seen that ineffeciency before…..
o yeah. am an eagles fan.
Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance
Re: Small
Why is “his grade is going to be changed” not a statement that gets investigated by all of these Ohio newspapers that are reporting it? Is this that common that it’s not even news? I’m confused. Did he turn a paper in late and therefore get a break or something? Why is that okay? Because if it’s really that common I have some grades from Junior year I’d like to bring up.
Order your copy of "We Are Penn State" The offseason is long. So is this magazine.
I think I read that he revised a paper and the grade will go up.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Aug 12, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m probably being too critical here but: why is there already a finalized grade? If he revised a paper, shouldn’t that have been done before he was assigned and F or whatever it was? The report says the term ended like 3 weeks ago.
Order your copy of "We Are Penn State" The offseason is long. So is this magazine.
and i’ll stop being a school teacher now.
Order your copy of "We Are Penn State" The offseason is long. So is this magazine.
He's a football player
They are afforded special privileges. That’s honestly the only reason why this kid’s grade should be improved.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Aug 12, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Little known rule at PSU
You have up to a semester after your class to actually beg with a teacher or appeal with the student affairs to get a grade changed. Still sounds shady to me though.
So, you're saying it's too late for me to get a grade changed....
since I graduated in ’84?
Born and raised in the shadow of Mount Nittany
And
I’d actually prefer we be #2 on all of these lists. It’s the last list that matters and I think the team has gotten used to having to prove they deserve what they get rather than, like, well being T5.
Order your copy of "We Are Penn State" The offseason is long. So is this magazine.
JoePa would NEVER forfeit a game
(plus, I heard a rumor that he has a fetish for carnage)
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 12, 2009 11:34 AM EDT reply actions
"There is no gambling allowed @ Bushwood sirrrrr,
and I N E V E R slice..!"
"...goon-a-la-goun-ga...gung-ga-la-gun-ga...he said; there will be no money exchanged..."
by BlueWhiteLife on Aug 12, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Giger's Oline Piece
Fascinating to me about the possible move of Landolt. That tells me the coaches are superpsyched with the depth of Talent (smarts, athleticism) they have to play with. I can’t wait to see what they end up with here.
p.s. sweet Giger finish:
The bottom line: Last year’s line was outstanding, and this one probably will not be anywhere near as good. But as long as the line doesn’t stink, the offense should be effective.
p.p.s. re: the ruts/jones bromance, I’m saying nothing this time around ;)
"For me the game wasn’t grounded in reality. It was about the uniform you put on that turned you into a warrior. It was about the mythology of the battle, the victory, the defeat, the struggle." - Mike Reid, PSU '69
That’s a good jtot. You’ll get a nice paycheck from Jones and his legendary unnamed sources. tee hee hee
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Aug 12, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not a season ticket
holder, so I buy from Ticketexchange or StubHub for 2 – 3 games per year. I certainly won’t buy any for the pushover games. My cost to go to a game is the ticket+1 tank of gas + parking. I’ll be very curious to read the responses David Jones gets. A 98% renewal rate for season tickets is impressive, but people who buy season tickets are likely in the top 25% of wage earners so the recession wouldn’t affect them as much.
Joe Pa
Isn’t it outrageous that all those media folk want to talk endlessly about Joe Pa this and Joe Pa that when Ohio State has won exactly the same number of games over the years Joe Pa has been the coach. Are they saying he is mediocre? I really do not know.
All Buckeye fans know that PSU is the best team in the land. The performance against that powerhouse of the Midwest, Iowa, really showed them. You bet.
The OSU fans also are incredibly impressed with the chant borrowed from the Harvard of the Appalachians, Marshall.
...and I'm impressed you can actuallly round up 108,000 Ohioans who can spell half of 'Ohio'
"I thought the kid we were using had the potential to be a good quarterback, and I blew that one." - Joseph V. Paterno
by leeharvey418 on Aug 12, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
we really don't get enough bitter trolls on here.
Order your copy of "We Are Penn State" The offseason is long. So is this magazine.
What I don't understand is he seems to be implying
that 2nd on the win total list for the time period since JoePa has been head coach isn’t good enough to warrant being talked about? That it is somehow mediocre? I don’t think anyone here is saying that OSU is a bad program, or a bad program historically, just that they are overhyped (T-5 last 20 years, apparently), especially this year where their “star” was able to scrap together the 95th rated passing offense last year, and will likely have an inferior running attack to help out this year.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 12, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Implying
Joe Pa has won no more games over his career than the coaches at Ohio State over the same period. He actually has won fewer national championships and, since PSU has been a member of the Big Ten, fewer championships than the several coaches at OSU over the latter period.
and so you are saying that JoePa sucks?
because he’s only good enough to be tied with the 2nd best TEAM over that same time period? That he’s had more undefeated and uncrowned seasons during the time period?
Seriously, I really don’t understand you. All OSU coaches from 1966 combined = JoePa? Therefore, by rules of mathematics, any single OSU coach < JoePa? You sir are brilliant!
But really, I don’t get you. You seem to be trying to insult JoePa by saying he’s only as good as the second best team over that time period. Do you think OSU was bad during that period?
Your logic…it is confusing, and yet amazing at the same time.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 12, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Am I saying.......?
Sir,
I am saying that Ohio State has won more national championships, more Big Ten titles and the same number of games as Joe Pa has over the comparable periods. And, Ohio State has fired two coaches over this period, two for lack of performance.
The point is this: Is there something I am missing that is magical about one coach performing at a lesser level than at which three of the four OSU coaches have performed, and been fired for, over the comparable periods.
Your logic is even more confusing to me. And amazing.
And your mathematics is great in the same way Michigan’s is in saying it is the winningest program of all time. You do not take into account the fact that Joe Pa has coached so many more games. He may be one of the “losingest” coaches of all time as well, by your logic.
I am all in favor of all the awards for Joe Pa, but really, his overall record compared against PSU’s biggest rival is mediocre.
Wait a minute
So we agree that Joe Paterno has the same number of wins as Woody Hayes, Earl Bruce, John Cooper and Jim Tressel combined. Right? Cool.
We also agree that Joe Paterno has won less Big Ten titles than Ohio State during that time. Of course, how many Lambert trophies did Ohio State win from 1968-1993. None? Because Ohio State didn’t play for the Lambert Trophy? No s*#it Ohio State has more Big Titles than Penn State. We have not even been in the league 20 years.
He may be one of the "losingest" coaches of all time as well He might be. He’s not, seeing as he’s won in the vicinity of 70% of his games, but anything is possible I guess.
his overall record compared against PSU’s biggest rival is mediocre You’re our biggest rival now? How’s your record against Michigan. I’m pretty sure that other than recently, pretty mediocre is a good way to describe it.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Aug 13, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Over Comparable Periods
No, we do not agree that Joe Pa has the same number of wins as the aforementioned OSU coaches. He has the same number of wins as those coaches over the years Joe Pa has been the head coach.
Penn State has a losing Big Ten record against Ohio State since 1993, the year PSU came into the conference. And OSU has won 8 Big Ten championships and a national championship over the JoePa Big Ten era, while Penn State has won three Big Ten titles, two shared. PSU’s record looks downright bad by comparison. I was being generous in saying mediocre. I apologize.
No Jesse, PSU is by far not OSU’s biggest rival. OSU has too much dominance in the PSU Big Ten era for that.
OSU’s record vs Michigan is even over the last 80 years. Michigan was dominant in the late 1890’s and early 1900’s, when they won 19 of the first 22 games decided by a win or a loss. You are right- that is mediocre. PSU has been pummeled by UM, as you would understand quite well.
basically, the reason your post comes out as stupid is this
By no legitimate measuring stick is OSU in any significant way better than PSU over the period that Paterno has been coach. The same number of wins, though yes, PSU has a slightly worse win % (76% vs 75%), but Paterno has more undefeated seasons (5 vs 3) (& undefeated & untied,5 vs 2) seasons than OSU. Just because OSU was able to win more popularity contests doesn’t impress me. You may as well claim that OSU has had better pre-season rankings, I’ll care just as much.
And I’m going to take it you never actually watched any of the PSU vs Michigan games, as they’re not usually “pummeling”, and all too frequently bad officiating.
But hey, OSU knows all about benefiting from that bad officiating.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 13, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
In the 1960's
Just because OSU was able to win more popularity contests in the 1960’s doesn’t impress me.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
Here's a fun fact I just looked up:
We played tOSU under Rip Engle three times, the results:
11/7/1964 @ Ohio State (7-2) W 27 0
11/9/1963 @ Ohio State (5-3-1)W 10 7
10/20/1956 @ Ohio State (6-3) W 7 6
Notice the @ sign for all three of those.
Not to mention one of my favorite PSU historical stories about a certain 1912 beat-down.
Currently, PSU is 12-12 all-time against tOSU.
Someone remind me....
And OSU has won 8 Big Ten championships and a national championship over the JoePa Big Ten era, while Penn State has won three Big Ten titles, two shared.
With whom were our titles shared? Funny how important it was to mention that some of ours were shared, but not so important to mention that theirs were.
Born and raised in the shadow of Mount Nittany
Shared Championships
One of OSU’s shared Big Ten championships occurred when it won the National championship in 2002, went 14-0 and 8-0 in the Big Ten. OSU did not play Iowa that year, partly because OSU now agrees to play UM and Penn State EVERY YEAR.
So Iowa does not play OSU, goes 8-0 in the Big Ten, loses its bowl game but has the same overall record as OSU in the Big Ten. We are co-champs by rules agreed to by all parties. End of discussion.
Northwestern also has three championships they cannot stop boasting about. The did not play OSU, to whom they have lost 28 of 29, in any year they have claimed championships.
But those are the rules and OSU will abide by them.
PSU has a great record after stepping up to the Big Ten, doesn’t it? What, 136-86.? WOW! 4-10 against Michigan. OOOOOH! I still believe yau are overall better than Michigan State, but it’s close.
I DIDN'T KNOW THAT
Oh wait I did. Sucks when you have to share championships with a team that you’re better than though.
And this little part about OSU “abiding” by the rules? Pointless if you’re just stating it, so that can’t be it. And you can’t be suggesting that Penn State isn’t abiding by it. It’s not like we’re fighting it. And if you’re suggesting that we’re complaining about it and OSU isn’t, that’s crap as well. I’ve heard many OSU fans complain about sharing the title with Iowa.
It must be nice to be able to single out a time period and claim it as everything. Oh and really, don’t try and say it’s because the Big Ten is better competition than we had before, someone else already covered the fact that our Independent schedule wasn’t weak. Also, when we came into the Big Ten, with our team that we had recruited as an Independant, we went 10-2 followed by 12-0, so I don’t really think it was the competition. It’s been recruiting. We couldn’t dominate the east in recruiting as much as we used to. Now we’re recruiting very well and will sustain our success. Also, that record of 136-86 is compounded by our terrible years, which were a special occasion that is unlikely to happen again anytime soon.
And contrary to OSU, Michigan is not the rubric we use to determine success. Beat any SEC teams lately?
Finally, whether or not you think we’re just a little bit above Michigan State is irrelevant. All that does is make you look like an idiot.
by PSUisMyHeart on Aug 16, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you meant
barely above Michigan State
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on Aug 16, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
and Joe Pa's lack of many national championships
was not for lack of performance on the field.
by PSUisMyHeart on Aug 13, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Look.
Your comparison is wack, and it reeks of jealousy. Oh my god, someone might pay attention to something other than Ohio State for a second. No, No, we’re just as good, see we won a lot of games too. Love me, LOVE ME DAMNIT!!!!!
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
Dude!
Go easy on PSUIMH
"I thought the kid we were using had the potential to be a good quarterback, and I blew that one." - Joseph V. Paterno
by leeharvey418 on Aug 13, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
That went in the wrong place I guess.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
exactly 104 teams have more losses than JoePa does over the same timeframe
obviously no coach has coached the same period of time, but you can hardly say he’s a “losing” coach. Winning 75% of your games (and this number DROPPED from 79% because of the 2000-2004 seasons).
Your “won more National Championships” claim is as valid as Penn State claiming to have won more Paterno Poll Championships than OSU (was it the 1969 or 1973 season? I forget).
Also, where do you get this “lesser level” when you just previously said that the levels are EXACTLY THE SAME?
I was unaware that OSU was our biggest rival, but nice to know. And you are correct, Paterno’s 8-12 record against OSU is mediocre, but not terrible, considering we all acknowledge that OSU is a good program. Over the same period OSU is 20-21 against Michigan, 8.8% better. Break out the champagne, guys, you are AWESOME!!!
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 13, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Penn State's Biggest Rival
If your biggest rival is not OSU, who is it? Pitt? Please. WVU?
I did not say Paterno’s record against OSU was terrible. Mediocre to bad, yes.
You name the measuring stick, BCS games, BCS wins, wins head to head, Big Ten championships, total points scored head to head. Just name it. OSU cleans PSU’s clock.
I did not say he is a losing coach. I did say that the same boast that he is the winningest may also mean he is the losingest. He has won no more games than ODU over his coaching tenure.
I do not know what you mean by “lesser level?”
Undefeated Seasons.
That’s the measuring stick. There, I named it. Feel better.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
pretty good measuring stick, I'd say
don’t forget the untied part as well.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 13, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
heck, even undefeated AND 1 loss seasons, we still win
11-10 (unless you don’t count 1 loss plus a tie, then it is 11-9)
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 13, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Michigan counts one with three ties
How funny is that?
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
I was quoting you
The point is this: Is there something I am missing that is magical about one coach performing at a lesser level than at which three of the four OSU coaches have performed, and been fired for, over the comparable periods.
You make it appear that JoePa has performed at a “lesser level” than OSU over that timeframe, despite both teams winning 383 games. How exactly are JoePa’s 383 < OSU’s 383?
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 13, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless you mean that JoePa performed worse than Hayes, Bruce, and Cooper (the three out of 4 coaches)
over the same time period, yet those guys got fired?
Just so you know, Paterno actually performed better than those 3 coaches from 1966-2000 (the relevant time period)
Paterno: 322-90-3 (78%)
OSU: 300-97-8 (75%)
And yes, 2000, 2001, 2003, and 2004 happened, so they count, and Paterno was coach during that tenure. But 1966, and 1988 happened for OSU as well (including numerous other mediocre seasons like 1999…geez, what is it with you guys and the double number seasons?). Paterno had earned his choice to stay, and stay he did. Then 2005-2008 happened.
Are you advocating that he should have been fired for his performance in 2000-2004? It was quite terrible, we will all agree. We don’t call it the “Dark Years” for nothing. But since then, you can’t really say Penn State’s been all that bad, winning the outright Big 10 Championship two of those years (that you guys like to “share” with us…sorta like the little brother who likes to “share” his older brothers’ stuff), and if anything the 2000-2004 period was just a blip on the radar.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 13, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Jugger Nitt
During years when JoePa has been in the Big Ten, against common opponents,he has been far less successful than Michigan and Ohio State. As an Independent, he naturally performed much better. And what team wouldn’t?
I do not have an opinion as to whether he should have been fired after 2004. My point is, he has losing records against two teams he should be even with, talent-wise: UM and OSU. Nothing more, nothing less.
If anything, the most recent years should count more, not less.
I very simply have not th slightest idea what you mean when you say OSU did not share the Big Ten titles in 2005 and 2008? There are rules for this, the Big Ten schools all agree to them before the year, and the rules spell out how the champion is determined. If the two teams at the top have the same record, the title is shared. Now if the Big Ten were to change the rules, we could all agree in advance to these changes and everything would be right in the world. Until they change the rules, they are what they are.
As an Independent, he naturally performed much better
Really?
Because we were playing Miami, Nebraska, Alabama, Pitt with Marino, BC with Flutie, Notre Dame, Texas, USC, etc. back when the Big Ten was runinng the wishbone going 30 years without a national cahmpion. You really wanna compare schedules in 1970’s and 80’s with us.
You recognize that we’ve actually beaten SEC teams before. Lots of them actually.
Get it through your head. We are not Illinios. We are one of the 8 programs in the history of the sport. We have the most successful coach in the history of the sport. Recognize and respect. That’s all you gotta do.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
Wishbone
Who in the Big Ten ran the wishbone. And what is your record against Michigan? 4-10?
No you are not Illinois, but you are not Ohio State. Get it through your head, OSU has beaten you over the JoePa era more than you have beaten OSU. You keep wanting to come back to head to head, I have no problem with that. PSU is a fine third best program in the Big Ten, barely, and I maean barely, better than Michigan State.
I recognize and respect third best, believe me. But it is not best or even second best. How many times did Michigan beat PSU in a row?
You're awesome
If you use just the right sample size, not too big, or our record is the same, but not too small or, wait for it, our record is the same. Right, lets use ten years, that way it encompases the four years out of the last sixty or so that we sucked.
You keep telling yourself that you’ve got nothing to worry about. We’ll see you in November.
You’re right. The Big Ten never got sophisticated enough to run the wishbone. Straight power I and veer. Positively revolutionary.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
+1 to this
yes, the years happened, and yes, if JoePa was a perfect coach, then it shouldn’t and wouldn’t have happened, but it did, so it counts. It is hilarious how people conveniently only look at the time period that encompasses the 4 worst seasons out of 40+ years.
If anything, recent years should count more, not less.
Ok, then that means the MOST recent year should count the MOST.
Penn State: 11-2, def OSU 13-6.
Ohio State: 10-3
But in all honesty, no one here is bashing OSU; we recognize that they’re one of the top 5 programs in the country, especially recently. But PSU is no slouch, and is one of the top 10 programs in the country. “barely better than MSU”? Seriously? Even using the worst era in Paterno’s history, and taking just the past 10 years, Penn State is 76-47 (62%), while MSU is 64-57 (53%). The head to head record is 12-5 all time in favor of PSU, or 7-3 over the past 10 years. We all realize you’re just trying to be an inflammatory troll on here, but at least stop being ridiculous.
We know we had the losing streak against Michigan (thanks to our dark years, and some quesitonable officiaiting). Thanks for picking out the ONE instance where a team has had even a modest win streak against Paterno. We also know that Penn State has only beaten the OMG so awesome OSU 40% of the time. If OSU is apparently as awesome as you think they are, I’d say that’s faily impressive. For teams with at least 5 games against OSU, there are exactly 3 teams with better winning %. USC, Michigan, and UCLA. Man, Penn State is TERRIBLE.
But anyway, this topic has diverged from it’s original point, where you were trying to make some claim that Paterno is not all that great, and doesn’t deserve the credit and TV airtime and print that he takes away from OSU (you really want them to fill more space with how OSU has crapped the bed and made the conference look like crap) . Your point is just ridiculous, and to make matters worse, you try to claim how mediocre he is by only having 383 wins over a period where only 1 school has more (Nebraska, with 413).
We know that in recent history (last 10 years) PSU isn’t as good as OSU. Heck, even during our “revival” of 2005+ we’re still 3 games behind OSU, so OSU gets the nod. But to even claim that PSU isn’t one of the top programs in the country right now, AND historically, is just absurd.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 14, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Well Bo did like to use the wishbone as a goal line formation at UM.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Aug 14, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Awesome
Thank you Jesse.
I say use a sample using the years PSU has been in the Big Ten. OR, since JoePa has been your coach. OR, since either football program got its start.No matter how you twist or turn it, OSU will come out on top. It is NOT about picking just the right sample size.
And neither Michigan nor Ohio State ever used the veer. No decent Big Ten team did.
You are far less knowledgeable than the average poster here. I am sorry to say it.
I have never told myself that OSU has nothing to worry about when it takes the field against any JoePa team. Rest assured OSU knows the overall record ve PSU is dead even, that OSU has won only 60% of its games against JoePa and that PSU once stepped on OSU’s neck in a 63-14 rout. OSU will never forget that and your coach deserves some real respect for that.
I am not at all sure OSU will beat PSU in November, but I am surely glad the guarantor pf the PSU victory is you and not one of the other dozens of posters who know what they are talking about.
Now go back to your Mario.
I did not see where Jesse guaranteed any victory
I saw the “warning” for November, but no guarantee. They are quite different things.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 17, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Double Number Seasons
Are you saying 2002, when OSU was National Champion and 14-0 is a bad double number season? I swear to God, you must start doing your homework before you post. You need to step away from that Rolling Rock before you make such uninformed statements. I do not want people referring to you as JuggerNitWit.
I see that OSU education is paying off
DOUBLE numbers, my friend. JNitt quoted 66 and 88 as examples, 02 doesn’t exactly follow that pattern, does it? The next in that pattern would be 11, then 22, then 33. See how that works? I know it’s difficult to grasp.
Pre-school Math
In the year 2002 there are two 2’s. Most pre-schoolers understand this very basic concept. How can it get any simpler that that? Of course, as you may be able to understand, there are two zeroes in 2002 as well, as there are in 2001 and 2003 through 2010.
He said double number seasons, not two numbers in a row. Case closed. In most of the true double number years, OSU has, of course, beaten PSU.
You are no doubt the finest third best football school north of the Mason Dixon line. I want to give credit where it is due.
And why in God’s name would he be going back to 1966?
I said follow the pattern, 2002 doesn't follow that pattern
but I will apologize, I didn’t realize tOSU doesn’t teach anything as advanced as reading comprehension and being able to recognize simple patterns.
He brought up 1966 because you had criticized our record for wins in the Big Ten, in which we had the worst four year period in the history of our program, JNitt was pointing out that you guys have also had your share of crappy seasons, which coincidentally seemed to follow a pattern of 1966, 1988, 1999, etc.
don't sweat the moron, Dawson
according to his feeble mind, any year of the 90’s or 2000’s up to 2009 are double number years…dumb.
Everyone here with a reasonable (i.e. Penn State) education knew what you were saying.
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on Aug 16, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks HnB
I wouldn’t have wasted two posts arguing about this, but I was really curious as to how he didn’t get the pattern. I guess that was just my fancy pants East-coast, liberal, elitist, too-country education talking.
by dawsonPSU10 on Aug 16, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
wow...seriously?
Dawson was right that I was pointing out numbers that ended in double digits. Sorry for not clarifying that, as it led to someone being easily confused, as I did not intend to include any 2001-2009 season in that comment. Also, I did not actually intend for that comment to be at all serious or “relevant”, I just noticed a random pattern and made a little jab out of it. In the future I will try to remember that you are easily distracted and prone to forget the topic at hand.
Why did I go back to 1966? Joe Paterno, Head Coach of Penn State University, 1966-present. You seem to keep forgetting that this entire discussion started off with you criticizing Penn State during the JoePa era. That era started in 1966. Again, I forgot that you are prone to forget the topic at hand. I will try better in the future.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 17, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously
Yes, I have learned that you often write one thing yet, when pressed, claim you meant something else. Some believe this practice makes it harder for them to be pinned down.
Generally, I have not criticized Penn State. I have pointed out that JoePA has not performed nearly as well as TOSU in head to head meetings and that his record against UM if dismal. I also have pointed out several other items I believe are pertinent to JoePa’s record. He will, in fact, win more games than any other individual coach has.The win/loss records against Michigan and Ohio State are particularly important. as I have stated, because these are the only schools against whom Saint JoePa coaches who have nearly the same talent as PSU.
I have consistently pointed out that PSU is superior to eight schools in the Big Ten.
I Was Quoting You
Head to head record is the most important reason I say this. But also national championships, Big Ten championships, Big Ten win percentage, head to head record against Michigan, a common opponent.
Let's throw in bowl victories too
With Joe Pa himself having five more than OSU, with a supremely better winning percentage.
by PSUisMyHeart on Aug 13, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Biggest Rival
PSU is for sure not OSU’s biggest rival. Who exactly is yours?
Temple
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
Temple always has a heckuva football team
by PSUisMyHeart on Aug 13, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
They might do some things, they got this RB, we just gotta be ready
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
Big 10 Titles According to Wikipedia (so it must be true)
OSU joined the Big 10 in 1912
PSU joined in 1993
PSU will catch up
Ridiculous argument? Yes. But there is always a way to spin facts, stats and information
Let;s see who scored the most field goals next
(we can find stats to argue about all day)
"If you let the men in you've got to let the women in. I don't want a bunch of women walking around in my locker room when guys take showers". Joe Paterno
This is a cool cover....
… but it still feels awkward to me for some juvenile reason.
by smashtheguitar on Aug 12, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions
PARTY CRASHERS?
hahahaha. so ridiculous. Yea we’re party crashers alright.
on the BTN yesterday they were at OSU’s practice and the anchorman introduced ohio state as having won “4 consecutive Big Ten Titles”
My ass….
"I was looking for four things. Honesty, loyalty, trustworthiness and a man of character. Joe Paterno has all of that." - Derrick Williams
by Stately NOVA Lion on Aug 12, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Party Crashers
What part of the “four consecutive Big Ten titles” do you not understand? It is perfectly verifiable. Unfortunately, for Penn State, it did lose a game in the Big Ten.
For historical purposes, note that the Big Ten states that it had co-champions in 2002, the year Ohio State won the national championship and Iowa, the co-champ, lost it’s bowl game.
The ESPN “anchorman” did note that two of the titles over the past four years were shared.
We Are………Marshall, I mean Penn State!!!!!!!
We stole it from USC.
Silly Buckeye.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
yeah, but there wasn't a movie about it
how do you expect him to have learned that?
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 12, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
you do realize that just because their team died in a plane crash
doesn’t mean they had the cheer first. Just checking, since you seem to have a problem with the concept of numbers and logic. (do you get all your information from TV and movies?)
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 12, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
What part of the "four consecutive Big Ten titles" do you not understand?
The part where we beat you two out of the four years and went to the BCS. It’s called pride, look it up.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
well, they went to the BCS both of those years as well
but yeah, not as the B10 representative.
I wish the Big 10 would come up with other silly tie-breakers. Maybe for years that OSU has more losses than the B10 champ they can institute a tiebreaker where you can be crowned co-B10 champ if you beat at team that beat the champ (or beat a team that beat a team that beat the champ). And if the champ is undefeated, then they can use another subsection that states if OSU participates in at least 8 B10 games, then they can be crowned co-champ.
Just because it says so in a weird tie-break rule doesn’t mean people don’t laugh at you for claiming it.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 12, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
It might have been you, but someone did an analysis of Big Ten "championships"
and found that more often than not, tOSU had shared a championship with another B10 team instead of outright winning the conference.
If it makes the Buckeye’s feel better by allowing them to claim themselves as “champions” when they clearly lost the head to head and are not the true league champions as a way to compensate for single handedly destroying the image and reputation of the conference in a span of only two years, I say let them live in that fictional bubble filled with puppies, unicorns, and rainbows, because we’ll be right here laughing at how stupid they sound.
Penn State Prowess
Since Penn State joined the Big Ten, OSU has eight Big Ten titles and PSU under Saint JoePa three. Hardly the making of a rivalry.
PSU really helped the Big Ten’s cause with it’s effort vs. USC. Who do you play in non-conference games this year?
For the record, Ohio State has played in three BCS championship games and lost two of the three. The rest of the Big Ten, including Saint JoePa’ squad, has played in ZERO.
We are Marsh-all!
For the record, Ohio State has played in three BCS championship games
Yeah, I’ve heard that. It was hard to make out what the guys on TV were saying what with sound of LSU and Florida fans laughing at you and all, but I do seem to recall you playing in a few BCS title games.
We both have one undefeated season since we joined the league. One.
The fact that you guys got to play for a national title is because “St. JoePa’s” 1994 squad took the bullet for the league. Also, thanks to all you folks in Columbus and Ann Arbor who were courageous enough to vote your conscience that year. It’s great how you folks can get together to keep from being humilated about six seconds after we joined the confrence.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Aug 13, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
PSU really helped the Big Ten’s cause with it’s effort vs. USC.
Sure, our 14-point loss in the Rose Bowl did not help the Big 10’s cause….but I am sure your 35-3 loss to that same USC team earned the conference TONS of respect.
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on Aug 14, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Not half as awkward as the Oregon cover
Adding the feathers just makes it scream ‘Village People’ for some reason.
"I thought the kid we were using had the potential to be a good quarterback, and I blew that one." - Joseph V. Paterno
by leeharvey418 on Aug 12, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
WTF?
VT at #5 – you’re smoking crack
Ole Miss at #6 – no F***ing way
Georgia Tech at #12 – just ridiculous (yeah right 2 ACC teams in the top 12)
UNC at #20 – What is with this newfound love affair with UNC? Are they this year’s Vandy / ECU?
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on Aug 12, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't have the exact reference
someone somewhere did a statistical analysis of how FAR off SI is every year in their preseason poll and determined that they would have had better luck literally throwing darts at a wall.
I’ll have to look for it.
Question:
Which bear is the best bear?
If we’re down by over 50 at halftime and Sweatervest pulls the entire team except for Pryor, does he get credit for single-handedly beating us? Would he automatically be awarded the Heisman on the spot?
"I thought the kid we were using had the potential to be a good quarterback, and I blew that one." - Joseph V. Paterno
Wasn't Pryor already awarded the Heisman?
I read on Bleacher Report that, Pryor was awarded the Heisman, the Nobel Prize, and Medal of Honor this morning in the White House rose garden in a quite, dignified cermony presided over by the President and Pope Benedict XVI. I heard that after curing cancer he then ascended into Heaven, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father, but will return on Saturdays to smite the enemies of O$U with his arm-punting awesomesness. Barely.
When can I go home?
by mushdamma on Aug 12, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, no, no... you've got it all wrong
you’re clearly thinking of Tebow.
"I thought the kid we were using had the potential to be a good quarterback, and I blew that one." - Joseph V. Paterno
by leeharvey418 on Aug 12, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You forgot
retroactive PGA Grand Slam.
Order your copy of "We Are Penn State" The offseason is long. So is this magazine.
by KevinHD on Aug 12, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pryor and the Nobel, Medal of Honor, etc.
For Pryor only the Heisman. For Joe Pa, all the other honors. It is said that Pope Benedict is looking for only one more miracle to make Joe Pa a saint.
Does not having Pryor come to PSU count as a miracle for Joe?
I know I consider it to be.
by dawsonPSU10 on Aug 12, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know...drat
it “only” allowed us to get 3 top-10 QBs.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 12, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Barely
"We heard all that talk all week about the SEC and their speed, but we knew personally that they weren't nearly as tough as us."
-Tony Hunt
And even better
we were able to land three top ten QBs who aren’t afraid to compete with one another and don’t need their ego’s stroked every five seconds to feel adequate about themselves. There’s are many reasons we take pride in not having names on our jerseys, and selfless, unegotistical attitudes are among them.
+1 for you sir.
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09
Lesson:
Coaches are inelligible for the Heisman award. Pryor can have “only” the Heisman, that’s fine. JoePa will settle for the measley National Championship (I know that would be my priority, but I guess OSU is fine with the Heisman and other “voted based on hype” accomplishments. We at PSU prefer to earn ours on the field)
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 12, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Lesson
To whom? That coaches are not eligible for the Heisman? Who ever said they were?
Joe Pa will never again win a national championship. Take it to the bank. He showed his true colors when he lost, as the chalk and when the chips were down, to Iowa. Adnittedly, USC was a better team. But he got HUGELY outcoached at Iowa. Imagine OSU having that sort of letdown.
OSU has lost many much bigger games recently than PSU. Because OSU PLAYS IN THEM. OSU won the national championship in 2002, lost to national champion Texas in 2005 ,lost to national champion Florida in 2006 (OSU’s only loss), lost to national champion LSU in 2007, and lost in 2008 to Penn State USC and Texas in 2008. Now those games, while big, are not like losing to Iowa.
And OSU certainly has won more of those national championships that your “black shoes” Like having black shoes somehow makes you better anyhow. There is not a single bit of sense in that, as far as I can tell. if there were, I guess all drivers would drive black cars, since the Model T came out only in black. And hey, why wear face masks? Why fly to games?
Ah, more twisted logic
Quick to bring up losses as counterpoints, I see. Let’s look at Iowa: “HUGELY outcoached”? I see you didn’t bother to look at the score. We lost by ONE point. If that’s all it takes for a team to be HUGELY outcoached, I can’t imagine what synonym for HUGELY you’d use to explain how you lost to unranked Illinois by 7 in 2007 (at HOME for you by the way, not a road game, like Iowa was for us), or to PSU in 2005, or to PSU again in 2008 at your own stadium (wow, by you’re own logic, Paterno must be a hell of a good coach if he beat you by 7 in both of those games, so would you say Tressel was HUGELY outcoached?) . Or do you exempt those losses when you write a statement like:
“Imagine OSU having that sort of letdown.”
I’d have loved to see what Pryor’s arm punts would have done against Iowa last year in the same game if he was playing in freezing cold temps, 20 mph winds, and coming off of a concussion like Clark was in that game. And despite your assumption that Iowa was a crappy team last year, look at the scores of their games. Most of their losses were a difference in score of less than a touchdown. They were an excellent team last year, despite how their record looks (but that’s just a PSU perspective, I know nothing else matters to OSU fans except for records, and awards, right? Who cares about how strong another team was if they can’t win games.).
Now I can really see you must be desperate to find things to criticize us for if you’re going to attack “black shoes”. No one has explained the black shoes to you, have they? We don’t use black shoes as a way to say we are superior than another team. We don’t say they win us any games. “Black shoes, basic blues, no names, all game” is a little motto of PSUs that we take pride in. Unlike OSU players, who have to have names on their jerseys, Penn State takes pride in the fact that no one player is more important than another. We wear our plain uniforms, including those black shoes, with pride because we take pride in the team more than the player. Its a symbol of tradition and loyalty to our school, to honor the great players of the past, who wore the same plain uniform. Although I’m frankly not surprised you wouldn’t understand the meaning of honor or tradition, since the only way you seem to measure pride and success is if you get a shiny trophy for it.
Iowa Hawkeyes
Iowa lost to the Northwestern Mildcats. Repeat" MILDCATS.
End of discussion. But they sure beat you.
You are right that nothing matters to OSU fans, I can assume, regarding another team except whether OSU can defeat them, as we have done to PSU so often in the Big Ten and Joe Pa eras.
The model T was a fine automobile and the telegraph was a fine means of transportation, too. Leather helmets were fine, too, and we all know that facemasks are luxuries.
Do the Eagles have their names on their jerseys? Steelers? Bucs? Phillies?
For a school with the unbelievably mediocre record you have in the Big Ten , it truly is incredible to me the amount of nonsense spewed on these pages. We all respect Penn State, and I am sorry things have not gone so well as you would have expected against UM and OSU, but PLEASE cut out the nonsense of others not understanding the meaning of honor and tradition.
you realize that OSU won exactly ONE more game than the "Mildcats" last year, right?
Also, exactly 1 more game than Iowa.
If those teams are so bad, what does that make OSU?
And seriously, you bring up our loss to Iowa in 2008, and say “Imagine if OSU had that sort of letdown?”. Does your memory not span back to 2007? Remember that unranked Illinois team you played AT HOME and in decent weather, without your QB suffering from the effects of a concussion?
How about 2005, when you lost to that pitiful Penn State team that had losing seasons 4 of the previous 5 years.
How about 2004 when you lost to, in order, the “Mildcats”, Wisky, Iowa, and later in the season, to Purdue. But nah, you’d never be like Penn State and lose to * gasp * Iowa, and certainly you’d never lose to the “Mildcats”.
2001 anyone? I know Penn state had a terrible 5-6 record that year. A team of that calibre could never beat OSU, could they? Nor could 7-4 UCLA, 5-7 Wisky, or Illinois.
Stop pretending like OSU never has slip ups, or that they are significantly better than PSU. You said earlier that using ANY comparison, OSU is better than PSU, yet again it seems like you forgot that your VERY FIRST statement was how since JoePa started, in 1966, the teams have the EXACT SAME NUMBER OF WINS.
And if we’re gonna start criticizing other team’s uniforms. Stickers of leaves and a nut? Seriously? Why not complete your fetish and start using stickers of twigs & berries. All I know is I stopped caring about stickers validating my accomplishments when I was 10.
See how stupid comments like that are? Damn it, I forgot already, you can’t keep a logical train of thought going, and can’t stay at the matter at hand. Ooh, a squirrel!
But you are right. Penn State’s conference record is an abysmal third place (or second place since 2005).
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 17, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
To Uninformed
OSU beat N/W 45-10 in 2008 in Evanston. N/W was 5-3 in the Big Ten. OSU 7-1.
Again, I repeat, say it with me , OSU the same number of wins as PSU in the JoePa era. OSU has eight (8) Big Ten titles since PSU has come into the Big Ten. PSU has three over the same period. OSU has played in three National Championship games over the PSU Big Ten era. I have not veered from that point one iota. We are ahead of you head to head in the JoePa era. You are 4-10 against Michigan. You are third best, which is pretty good. Better than Northwestern, Indiana, etc. Even slightly better than MSU.
OSU football is, simply stated, superior to PSU football over Saint JoePa’s era. Please, please, please look at the OSU/PSU record and stop these ridiculous responses.
Your uniforms are fine, nothing great. Deciding not to have names on jerseys means nothing, but certainly is your right. It certainly has not helped you against OSU or Michigan. I suppose it helps versus Northwestern. But I certainly have no problem with your selection of uniforms. Or helmets.
Your nex comment may be that PSU is tied for the best record in the conference over the past year. Right Again!
Please give no one additional reason to refer to you as JuggerNit Wit.
OSU football is, simply stated, superior to PSU football over Saint JoePa’s era.
No it’s not. They are best the same. Ohio State has been better most years since Penn State joined the league. But that’s only most years, and the worm may be turning on that.
Over the Paterno era? Seriously, 1969 – 2001? Where the hell were you guys? You weren’t having undefeated seasons and you weren’t winning any National Titles. That’s for damn sure.
You take four years out of Penn State’s past 50 years and we’re better than you. You have to ignore literally three decades of doing nothing but having and irrelevant pissing contest with Michigan to consider yourself “better” than Penn State.
"far less knowledgeable than the average poster here"
Jesse
I beg you to research the facts before you write. Again.
I have not taken four years out of the past fifty. I have taken his overall record. You simply do not have the knowledge to play in this league.
I respectfully request that you go back to your Mario.
I shall no longer bother with responses to you. Your comments are not worthy of a dignified response. Seriously, your responses lack the depth of the other responders.
I wish you the best of luck. Federal assistance may be available to you.
1966-2002
That’s Paterno’s first season through Ohio State’s last national National Title.
Ohio State’s record, including those two seasons – 321-103-8
Penn State’s – 326-92-3.
Since that time, you’ve been better. But for three of those years everybody was better than us. We’ve split the last four games.
"far less knowledgeable than the average poster here"
Just some numbers
first off, I meant overall record. OSU: 10-3. NW & Iowa: 9-4
(sorry the formatting is off, I don’t know how to quickly fix it, but figure you can figure out what number belongs in what column)
Then some interesting numbers about seasons with certain #s of wins
#wins – PSU – OSU
0 0 0
1 0 0
2 0 0
3 1 0
4 1 2
5 4 0
6 1 4
7 3 3
8 5 6
9 8 11
10 6 8
11 11 7
12 3 1
13 0 0
14 0 1
AVG 8.9 8.9
STDEV 2.33 2.03
MEDIAN 9 9
MIN 12 14
MAX 3 4
So basically they’ve performed the same over the JoePa era, except that PSU has had more “great” seasons, as well as more “bad” seasons (mostly due to 2000-2004), while OSU has been more consistent with racking up 9 win seasons. To show this another way:
Number of seasons with AT LEAST # wins
#wins PSU OSU
0 43 43
1 43 43
2 43 43
3 43 43
4 42 43
5 41 41
6 37 41
7 36 37
8 33 34
9 28 28
10 20 17
11 14 9
12 3 2
13 0 1
14 0 1
So PSU & OSU are about the same, except PSU has more 5 win seasons, but OSU picks up the slack with 6 win seasons. Then things stay about the same, except that OSU has more 9 & 10 win seasons, while PSU has more 11 &12 win seasons, and PSU has more 10+, 11+, or12+ win seasons than OSU.
Just in case you ask again, I start at 1966 because that is Paterno’s first year.
But you are right, over the period of 1993-2008, which just happens to have our worst period in the history of Paterno making up 1/3 of the “score”, OSU is better than PSU.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 17, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Just Substance, not Format
Of course, one of the reasons for your lackluster record over the past 16 years is because you have had to play OSU, UM and MSU so much more often than you had to play them in years prior to you becoming part of the Big Ten. That is a bit different from Navy, WVU and Pitt every year.
With respect to non-conference scheduling, to what ends will JoePa and his entourage go to ensure that he has the most wons in NCAA history? It is simply wrong to play such patsies. And I know the schedules are made in advance. But not 40 some years in advance. Saint JoePa is responsible for that.
OSU was not exactly a “juggernaut” in the years immediately prior to Tressel. But bad years must be included. Avoidance of bad years is one of the marks of a good coach/program. I am reluctant to reduce OSU’s arguments to “If you control for about four years. we are better than you.” Unfortunately, others have no such reticence.
Obviously playing OSU and UM every year
is going to be hard, yet you make it seem like we didn’t play a similar schedule. Before joining hte Big 10 we had a very comparable schedule, with series with Alabama, Notre Dame, Boston College etc. If you are going to comment on the schedule, don’t just pick the 2 schools in the region and assume that was our toughest opponents.
As for OOC schedule, don’t make me laugh. Except for this year, OSU’s non-con scheduling is just as bad as PSU’s is. Again, look up schedules before commenting. The general formula for both schools has been 1 national power, 1 MAC school, 1 FCS school, and one “other” school since they’ve added the 12th game, which both schools have traditionally scheduled mid-majors or weak BCS schools. Syracuse was scheduled 10 years in advance when they were decent.
As for bad years, yes they must be included. I have not taken them out, but I have given the disclaimer that if you are going to use your “recent years are more relevant” argument, there is a caveat that your “recent years” just happen to include the worst 4 years in the program’s history, and are more of an exception than the rule. I was also showing those tables to point this out, and show that while we have had some worse seaons, we also have had plenty more better seasons, but on average the programs are the same. Personally I’d actually rather have more 11 & 12 win seasons, with a smattering of “rough years” than consistent “good but not great” 9 win seasons.
I’d say, though, during the 2000-2004 seasons, we suffered more because we didn’t have any WRs, and our QB didn’t have shoulders. That is likely an effect of not being able to recruit as well in areas we traditionally dominated because A) now Big 10 schools had a pipeline to the regions, and B) the recruiters were using the “JoePa is old, he won’t be there when you graduate” argument, even though JoePa has outlasted all of those coaches. (did you know that JoePa has been in the Big 10 longer than any other current Big 10 coach?). Those years did happen, though, and are included in my previous analysis. If I wanted to leave them out, then I’d point out that since PSU has joined the Big 10, except for 2000-2004 we are 111-26, PSU is 110-27, Wisky is 97-38, Michigan is 95-41, and MSU is 66-65.
(real numbers are from 1993-2008 OSU is 159-41 [best in the nation], UM 141-57, PSU 136-60, Wisky 135-62, MSU 95-96)
Just goes to show how just a couple of down years can really change the stats.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 17, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Quality Players
The reason Penn State has not performed well against Ohio State is more the quality of player at OSU than anything else. Since 1994, OSU has had 100 players drafted into the NFL. Penn State has had 65. First rounders: OSU 28, PSU 15.
Now make no mistake, players are not teams, which require many elements other than players. But Ohio State, and the state of Ohio simply put out a higher quantity of quality players than PSU and the great state of Pennsylvania. I did not say better all-time greats, but a higher number of NFL players, simply stated, come out of Ohio as compared to PA.
Having said that, JoePa has made his name, and for that he deserves immense credit. He will be the Cy Young of coaches. But his .625 pctg is nothing to boast about. And his record against OSU and PSU, at least so far, is poor.
I can agree with that, mostly
but I personally wouldn’t feel too bad about having a 40% record against a team that is tied for second over your career-span. It isn’t great, and there were missed opportunities, but it isn’t anything to be ashamed about. And even from 1993 on, while the record drops to 38%, that is against the BEST team over that timeframe, so again, not THAT bad. As I pointed out earlier, there are only 3 (or was it 4?) teams that have better records against OSU (with more than 5 games played). Again, not too shabby.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 18, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I saw a "Top-5 watchlist" type thing for the Heisman today on ESPN
Perhaps it was for Colin Cowherd’s SportsNation or something (briefly saw it, and there was no sound).
1- Tebow
2- McCoy
3- Bradford (so far so good)
4- Jevon Snead
5- Jahvid Best
A little tear rolled down my cheek when there was no mention of Pryor anywhere. :’(
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 12, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
We Do
We certainly think Penn State can beat Ohio State. Now that doesn’t mean we think Penn State will beat Ohio State, just means that they can and the game should be a close one.
Chalk it up to homerism or whatever, but given the fact that Ohio State has played at a level above the rest of the conference during the past five years (not every Saturday, but during this period as a whole) and you can maybe understand why there aren’t too many of us banging the drum that Penn State will win the game.
see, that's why we like you, eleventy
you have something called “reason” (a skill certain other posters lack). I don’t think anyone (reasonable) thinks that either team will beat the other team, as both teams are certainly well matched with each other.
Chalk it up to research (and picking a convenient timeframe as well), or whatever, but given the fact that Ohio State has won exactly 3 games more over the past 4 years than Penn State (and 6 games more than Wisconsin), you can see why I don’t quite see the whole “OSU is at a level above”. Slightly better? perhaps, but the series over that span is 2-2, also not quite so dominating.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 12, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOFL!!
I can’t believe I’m the only one to see this! They actually practice favorable spotting in Columbus. I guess they know the refs in this league well enough to know that if they’re close to a 1st and they’re Michigan or Ohio State then they get an extra 2 yards.
See for yourself. The very first play was close to a 10 yard completion but a guy runs in and spots the ball 2 yards beyond the ficticious 1st down mark. I bet Witvoet and the boys use this as a training tape for the season!! :-)
by RNF18 on Aug 12, 2009 2:53 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I was too busy watching the offense suck the balls
to notice the spot.
NOTE: JL was awareded 6 tackles during this two minute drill. Did you guys know his father was a WWF wrestler?
by Tailgate Shogun on Aug 12, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I was dumb-struck by the throwing motion
which has improved(?) so much from last year that it has created a tsunami of hype.
What everyone misses
Is that PSU doesn’t give a fu*k if you attend the game. Why? Because the season will be sold out – again. They already got paid. Do they lose a few bucks on hot dog sales or maybe day of game parking? Sure. But it’s a sell out, and the money from the home game (even if it’s less than they’d see vs. OSU) beats the $0 payout they see during an away game.
This being said, I’ll be at EVERY game, just like I do EVERY year. I will tailgate JUST as big as always. Recession? F that. Bad schedule? F that.
by Tailgate Shogun on Aug 12, 2009 6:22 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
If this wasn't such a good rant
I would have cheapened it with a “Suck it economy and bad schedule!” dog.
"I’ll be at EVERY game, just like I do EVERY year."
Amen, TS. I’m right there with ya.
Also, a big fat +1 to you, Sir.
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Aug 12, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's turn this bad boy green.
+1…I’ll be at every game as well!
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on Aug 12, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Zug bless you, Sam
"I thought the kid we were using had the potential to be a good quarterback, and I blew that one." - Joseph V. Paterno
by leeharvey418 on Aug 12, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
So you did!
Okay, there’s one.
--
Order your copy of "We Are Penn State", like, now. One team, 128 pages.
by Run Up The Score on Aug 12, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
There are more, but don't expect them to come out of the woodwork
Our fanbase has a nasty history of ostracizing anyone who disagrees with “12-0! PRYOR WINS 4 HEISMANZ!” as “NOT A TRUE BUCKEYE”. Like many fanbases, I presume, things get nasty when people question preseason optimism.
Nevertheless, I expect another classic on November 7th, no matter who wins. I’m thanking gods I don’t even believe in that it’s not a night game.
www.wewillalwayshavetempe.com
by Sam @ WWAHT on Aug 12, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
ONE OF US
JOIN. JOIN.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Aug 13, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
You should start spreading the Good Word about our Supreme Overlord
Sam sounds like he could be a potential believer.
by dawsonPSU10 on Aug 13, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah, thanks
I voted Leman
www.wewillalwayshavetempe.com
by Sam @ WWAHT on Aug 13, 2009 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yes, that was another one of those epic battles where nobody loses
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 13, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
No
More like the media personality that pushes every piece of his agenda. So maybe Rush Limbaugh or Keith Olbermann.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Aug 13, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
One friendly counter point to your argument
Don’t underestimate ANY game in Beaver Stadium, even if it’s not under the lights (and just a friendly FYI, half of this game (likely to be a 3:30 start) will be under the lights). Just because it’s not an 8pm kickoff after everyone has reached a roudy level of intoxication doesn’t matter as much when you’re playing a fanatical fan base like ours. Hell, we get loud even for the cupcakes. And that’s what makes PSU so great in terms of fans, even when we were struggling in the dark years, fans still came out to support the team, no matter how dismal or disappointing it got. So, just don’t expect us to let up just because the sun is still in the sky, my friend.
by dawsonPSU10 on Aug 13, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you very much for being one of the few level headed Buckeyes
Whatever happens in Happy Valley in November, will be exactly as you predicted: close. Either way it goes, neither is going to be so completely dominant or suck (although, being an extremely loyal homer, I would welcome the idea of OSU sucking when they play in Happy Valley). Both of these teams have taken hits in losing players to the NFL on both sides of the ball since last Fall, and while we don’t have a side to side comparison made up, I’d be willing to bet that those losses probably balance out the strengths that both teams have, which will make this one of the most exciting games all year.
by dawsonPSU10 on Aug 13, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
which will make this one of the most exciting games all year for people who appreciate the game of football.
Fixed, I believe. I have a feeling this will be another excellent defensive game that, despite the lack of OMG BIG 12 SKILLZ, keeps you on the edge of your seat.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Aug 13, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I do agree with your changes, but can we really count the Big12 as "football teams"?
I’d honestly just call it midwestern people who go to have some sort of fetish that makes them cream their pants watching touchdown after boring touchdown with no semblance of resistance against their offensive explosions.
by dawsonPSU10 on Aug 13, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
nintendo 12
"They stalk their prey to within two or three great leaps and then launch a lightning-fast charge, striking their prey. Victims are most often killed by suffocation with a prolonged bite..."--Hinterland Who's Who
Attending games
I’m planning on attending 4 games, which is pretty much par for the course for me. And two of them are non-conference games, so I’m not shying away from the cupcakes. I actually like attending 1 or 2 easy win games a season; they make for fun relaxing weekends in Happy Valley – different than a big time game, but enjoyable in a totally different way.
Pryor
Everybody needs to let this Pryor shit go. I’m glad he’s at tOSU. He got serenaded and seduced by the hype of Ohio State…and I probably would have too if i was the top rated mobile QB out of high school. At least, I wouldn’t have picked PSU. How many NFL ready QB’s has Penn State put out in the last 20 years? One, maybe two. And they (Collins, Richardson) are dropback guys.
Also, the “Spread HD” just started this last season. there was no body of work to pitch to recruits pryor to now.
Trust me, Pryor is feeling the pressure right now. And a bad game or two, he will REALLY be feeling it.
Not really sure what my point is; I guess just if/when we beat OSU this year. Our guys shake hands and wish them the best.
"if/when we beat OSU this year"
Somebody get hbeach some blue koolaid.
Did you learn nothing from It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown??
"The sea was angry that day, my friends." G. Costanza
Hmmmm let me try
I can think of one who has had a decent career from PSU – Kerry Collins
From Ohio State, uh Bobby Hoying?
So in the past 20 years, PSU has had 1 QB who went to a SB(and lost) and is top 15 all time in passing yards, made a couple pro bowls. A pretty good career, not great, but above average definitely.
Same time frame? tOSU’s best product was a career backup(not even a very good one). I would say jury is still out on Troy Smith, but Joe Flacco killed his dreams I would think. At least the put Herbie out there, he is pretty good on the TV there.
We are far from a QB factory, but how can anyone justifiably say OSU has been better, at least we have someone starting right now(who was drafted near 15 years ago)
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
Maybe.....
they count Bobby Hoyinnnggggg and that Heisman guy that I can never remember his name…it’s like a year that there was no Heisman. Oh yeah, Troy Smith. The jury is out on him as an NFL QB.
Do you mean this Troy Smith?
I bleed Blue and White.
by Horse N Buggy on Aug 13, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
That would be him.
You know, it’s a wonder that tOSU gymnastics coach didn’t recruit him for the Floor Ex. Looks like a ten to me! Oops, legs a little apart, half a point deduction.
true, true...
but Smith DID win the Heisman. Pryor probably saw a program better suited for his talents is all, I can see why he went to Ohio State. and TRUST me, no one dislikes Columbus, OSU and their fans more than me.
Just saying, this kid is still young and I’m sure he’s feeling (the much deserved) pressure.
Pryor has big time potential...
we sometimes forget he was an 18 (?) year old Frosh starting for an “elite” program without the benefit of a Spring Practice, etc. I am sure his reads and reactions and such will be much better this year. His passing can only improve.
"His passing can only improve"
Well I sure hope it can’t get worse! There’s going to be a lot of disappointed talking heads if it does.
I honestly never knew this happened until I saw a Top Ten Most Unsportsmanlike Moments thing.
"If you let the men in you've got to let the women in. I don't want a bunch of women walking around in my locker room when guys take showers". Joe Paterno
Sad and pathetic way to end a storied career is all I'll say.
by dawsonPSU10 on Aug 13, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
True, true
But, God help me, I crack up when I see that video simply because of the soundtrack.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Aug 13, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, no don't get me wrong
I think the video is freaking hilarious, and the music is perfect (I’m assuming thats a tOSU fight song or something…meh, I’ve heard better). I know the guy was relatively old, but what on earth possesses you to punch an opposing student athlete in the face (while he’s wearing a helmet and face-mask no less!)?
I said “storied career” having absolutely no information to back that up, aside from the fact that I know he’s highly regarded as a good coach. I didn’t grow up listening to tales of tOSU greats, or ND’s “championships” obviously, so I kind of lose respect for someone when they do something so incredibly stupid like this since I have no football info to form a positive opinion on. And I’m young, and not well versed in past histories of other universities (other than possibly Pitt, since I’ve heard plenty of stories about them from my PSU alum Dad, my favorite of which is 48-14, which he saw in person at Pitt stadium)
by dawsonPSU10 on Aug 14, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, that's their fight song "Across the Field" (was my HS's fight song as well...shudder)
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 14, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
don’t feel bad, my HS fight song was Notre Dame
"If you let the men in you've got to let the women in. I don't want a bunch of women walking around in my locker room when guys take showers". Joe Paterno
yup, you win. Sorry :-(
In terms of “I want to stab my ears when I hear it”, ND>UM>OSU>USC
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 17, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Woody was a "great" coach
and did many benevolent things for his assistants and the Columbus community. I understand he used to take the money he made for making dinner speeches and put it in a fund for his assistant coaches. Asst Coaches made chicken feed in those days. He was a very beloved man in Columbus.
That said…he was Bobby Knight’s idol! I believe there is another film cut somewhere where he takes the first down markers and tosses them round and bends them over his knee or something. I remember once when tOSU was on TV (maybe playing at U of Washington) and Woody was still coaching (so was JoPa by the way) that they mentioned that, with the exception of the Rose Bowl, this was the first time tOSU had played outside of the “Mid-west” in 20 years! So, OOC scheduling was just as bad in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s.
That was a game against Clemson, BTW.
OOC scheduling
I’m always impressed to see how long ND & USC have been playing each other (since the mid-20’s!!!!) That must have taken forever to do back then, and cost a lot of $$.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 14, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a beautiful home and home
Ever notice that when they play at Notre Dame it’s like the first week of October. Not too cold, one of the best weekends of the fall. And when it’s at USC it’s the last game of the year, and nice warm trip for the ND fans? Just beautiful.
"far less knowledgeable than the average poster here"
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