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Penn State partners with FieldTurf

Link from Athletic Turf News HERE


Separate (and almost simultaneous) announcements by synthetic turf competitors FieldTurf and AstroTurf that they're partnering in ambitious research efforts with two of the nation's finest turfgrass programs is great news for the industry. FieldTurf has hooked up with Penn State and AstroTurf with the University of Tennessee.

In the case of the Penn State program, this will include research into all types of sports surfaces. Dr. Andy McNitt, who will be managing the new Center for Sports Surface Research at Penn State, says that although 80% of the research effort will be directed at synthetic and natural turf systems, surfaces commonly used for basketball, track and, as the program develops, other surfaces will be scrutinized as well.

Star-divide

Note that this doesn't affect the playing surface at Beaver Stadium.  I still believe (and hope) that PSU will continue to play on natural grass--but there's no guarantee in the future.

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Blasphemy!!

Playing on turf at the Beav? Thats like putting leaves on your helmet. May Zug bless your soul.

by JIMPSU on Aug 4, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions  

lol, Dr. Andy

McNitt.

How appropriate.

"Welcome to Tangares base. You’re just in time for the dance party. I’ve arranged a dancing partner for you. DANCE TO THE DEATH!"

by psuwxman on Aug 4, 2009 11:56 AM EDT reply actions  

That would not help the turf grass program

I figure they’ll keep it real, since the turf grass program has such prestige.

Ten years ago, I interviewed the groundskeeper. I’ll have to find it and put it up one of these days.

Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.

by WFY on Aug 4, 2009 12:12 PM EDT reply actions  

A couple of avenues for transfer to robot grass:

1) FieldTurf gives them an offer they can’t refuse, i.e. a free field. Think of the Nike agreement and placing the swoosh on the jerseys. If they think they can get 35 high school and small college athletic directors in the Northeast to make the switch once they inundate them with news about PSU’s new synthetic field, it’s worth it. They’ve done it before in other parts of the country. It’s no coincidence that FieldTurf and AstroTurf set up shop in two of the three largest stadiums in North America that have natural grass.

2) Whatever the head coach wants, the head coach gets. I’ve seen perfectly good natural grass fields transformed into synthetic grass because the coach is convinced the surface is better. Often the company’s will employ former players (either of the school or of the head coach) as salesman for their product. This will never happen with JoePa at the helm, but the next guy may have a different opinion.

3) A disasterously bad game on natural grass. It happens, but it’s usually due to a combination of bad design, bad maintenance, bad weather, and overuse. Think Heinz Field on Monday Night a few years ago. This is probably the least likely to happen at PSU since they won’t play anything that isn’t PSU football on it.

by Cairo on Aug 4, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I suppose anything is possible

But losing the grass field at Beaver Stadium would be a real shame.

I think that the reason that Tennessee and Penn State still play on natural grass is because of the turfgrass programs. My guess is that the research is geared towards creating some type of Cylon playing surface, one that looks and feels real, but isn’t. And wears a super hot red cocktail dress.

I’d suspect if their turf alchamey is successful, that they would use it.

"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008

by jesse. on Aug 4, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

+1 sir

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."

by Roland86 on Aug 5, 2009 5:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Edit:

Think Heinz Field on Monday Night a few years ago.

Order your copy of "We Are Penn State" The offseason is long. So is this magazine.

by KevinHD on Aug 4, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahahahahha. Good call. Heinz Field is terrible. That game he mentioned was after crazy rain and I think the high school finals the Friday and Saturday prior.

Let's Go State

by rmcmillen50 on Aug 4, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

personally on that

I loved the punt that actually stuck in the turf nose up.

Ben and Alex... first commits for 2024

by 3Yardout on Aug 4, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Turf

I read this article a while ago. It’s like a turf grass journal article about Penn State. It’s pretty interesting, especially in how it details how truly old fashioned the turf at BEaver Stadium is when compared to a more modern stadium like Heinz Field.

Of course this is the money quote.

Bobís communication with the football coach was usual-ly through intermediaries. The exception was when thecoach was dissatisfied with the field at Beaver Stadium andwould directly and forcefully communicate his concerns.Bob usually accepted these comments and concerns withoutverbal response.

Some of the old timers might remember the season that the turf had some kind of disease that caused it to literally come up in chunks during a game. The article is about how they replaced the turff before the next game in two weeks.

"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008

by jesse. on Aug 4, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions  

1993

I would guess that they’ve changed the base course and subdrainage system since then. Natural grass needs to be replaced every 8 years or so. Robot grass needs to be replaced every 8 years as well but is much more expensive.

I was watching the PSU-Michigan State game this morning with breakfast and noticed that the field had a layer of ice on it. A heated sub-air system might have melted that off. Of course, it may have led to a slippery field so they might not have turned it on to keep the surface playable for the wide receivers.

by Cairo on Aug 4, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will personally lead the revolt and burn houses

if they put in fake grass inside of that stadium.

Order your copy of "We Are Penn State" The offseason is long. So is this magazine.

by KevinHD on Aug 4, 2009 12:51 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

^THIS^

DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?

by ReadingRambler on Aug 4, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't forget these

"For me the game wasn’t grounded in reality. It was about the uniform you put on that turned you into a warrior. It was about the mythology of the battle, the victory, the defeat, the struggle." - Mike Reid, PSU '69

by jtothep on Aug 4, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is it wrong that it doesn't bother me that much?

Not that I want fake grass, but I am assuming it will change with the times eventually. You know some super steroid awesome, barely fake grass will come along and be put everywhere. The small bit of pessimist in me sees that happening.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."

by Roland86 on Aug 5, 2009 5:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Now that you say that

some kind of field turf that is barely fake would be pretty appropriate

by Lion on the Lake on Aug 5, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

barely appropriate

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."

by Roland86 on Aug 5, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

The drainage tiles were installed by PennDot....

…in 1960 when the stadium was built. They were installed incorrectly.

Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.

by WFY on Aug 4, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Similar situation at another BCS program.

The drainage tile stopped functioning and it they found the whole system was gooped up and causing localized flooding around the stadium. They had to tear out a 48" storm pipe (that also carried water from other parts of the campus) that ran through the middle of the stadium. Not a cheap fix.

by Cairo on Aug 4, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Drainage and Andy and Bob

You are correct about the drainage. The catch basins to drain surface water were place too high, above the turf level so they never worked.

I know Andy well, he has worked on the synthetic stuff from grad school till now and is a revered expert in the field. He is a good guy and would never suggest converting the stadium to plastic grass.

Bob was a class mate of mine in turf school. Class of 1976. He is a wonderful man. Joe treated him like dirt. The field coming up in chunks was all Joe’s fault in 93. Joe want a “friend” to get the sod job that spring but the friend didn’t have any good sod so the stadium got the “poor” sod. The rest is history and now Bob’s being blamed, too bad, not his fault at all. I know this story well.

Bob does a great job without the financial support most here would expect. Joe is never happy, he wanted the 1.5 inch turf cut to 0.5 inches for a game one week and then back to 2 inches the next week to benefit his faster and then slower team. You can’t do that to a good turf, it will damage it but Joe didn’t care. There are dozens of stories. Bob just moved forward and kept his head down like a good soldier, but he didnt’ like it and he was dealing with …… you know who so it was a no win situation for him. His reputation was sacrificed to protect you know who.

by FG Dreadnought on Aug 4, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair

99.99% of all football coaches, baseball managers, soccer managers, and athletic directors treat their turf people this way.

by Cairo on Aug 4, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

That does not make it right....

This has been a problem for years. The king is revered but most don’t know the inner workings of the university and the program. I know more about this than most. Bob took the fall for the sod in 93 but it certainly wasn’t his fault. The buddy / good ole boy system has hurt us over the years in more ways than are apparent on the surface, final comment.

by FG Dreadnought on Aug 4, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

not saying it is right

but I’d bet the “buddy/good ole boy system” is in effect in every major institution in the country. And I think pretty much everyone knows that JoePa is a stubborn pain in the ass to work with. Most successful people want everything their way, physically possible or not. Of course a lot of epic fail people share that same trait, as well.

by The JuggerNitt on Aug 4, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is an incredibly thin line

between Hero/Villain, Insane/Genius, epic Win/epic fail, etc. That was an excellent point you made in there.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."

by Roland86 on Aug 5, 2009 5:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I AM STEPHEN A. SMITH. I WOULD LIKE IT VERY, VERY MUCH IF YOU WOULD SEND THIS COMMENT TO MY FANTASTIC BLACKBERRY.

THANK YOU.

DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?

by ReadingRambler on Aug 4, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

What, no

iphone? C’mon Stephan A Smith, you’re an even bigger letdown than I remember.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Aug 4, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I learned a tiny bit about turf while working grounds crew

at a country club in Harrisburg, I do know that changing the heights that rapidly will murder a grass. Grass is a fragile and needy mistress.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."

by Roland86 on Aug 5, 2009 5:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

717 Love is always welcome.

But yeah Blue Ridge CC on Linglestown road is where I worked. Sweet course, even if the superintendant did go to Rutgers(although he is a die hard PSU fan)

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."

by Roland86 on Aug 5, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Grass is a fragile and needy mistress

Ummm, that’s what Evans said?

"For me the game wasn’t grounded in reality. It was about the uniform you put on that turned you into a warrior. It was about the mythology of the battle, the victory, the defeat, the struggle." - Mike Reid, PSU '69

by jtothep on Aug 6, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

turf

i had a class with mcnitt, good guy, good teacher. turfgrass was required for the golf major……chinchbugs

by farrellpsu on Aug 4, 2009 1:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Did you learn about the hybrid turfgrass of...

Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern California Sensemilia?

by Screen Name 20 on Aug 4, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Out: “I’d rather watch the grass grow!”

In: “I’d rather watch hot grass porno!”

Eh…

DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?

by ReadingRambler on Aug 4, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cannonball it,

Cannonball! Cannonball comin’ through, Cannonball!

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Aug 4, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice

Put a tarp on that circus! - showtime @ BSD

by bconway6 on Aug 4, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tomorrow

I’ll post my 1999 interview with the groundskeeper.

Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.

by WFY on Aug 4, 2009 1:41 PM EDT reply actions  

He doesn't even know anymore

Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.

by WFY on Aug 5, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Making teenagers depressed is like shooting fish in a barrel

"I thought the kid we were using had the potential to be a good quarterback, and I blew that one." - Joseph V. Paterno

by leeharvey418 on Aug 5, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here is the 1999 interview

http://www.yurasko.net/wfy/2009/08/from-1999-teams-have-sure-footing.html

Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.

by WFY on Aug 5, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

quick aside

how do you pronounce your last name

because the way I’m doing it, it makes me sound like I’m saying “you’ra a**hole” and I have a sneaking suspicion that’s probably not correct

by The JuggerNitt on Aug 5, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

With Mr. in front of it ;)

It really is pronounced the way it is spelled, maybe a little emphasis on yur, though the first two syllables are almost combined.

Until I was about 15, teachers always got it wrong, then the suddenly started getting it. It was very rarely mispronounced at Penn State/in Pennsylvania.

Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.

by WFY on Aug 5, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

heh, that's kinda how my last name was, too

all through elementary and middle school teachers (and others) would never get it right the first try, then it seemed like all of a sudden no one pronounced my last name wrong again.

by The JuggerNitt on Aug 5, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I found this line amusing

Wear and tear is also increased with the coming of the Big Ten season, as some of the conference’s teams, like Ohio State and Michigan are significantly heavier than some non-conference foes such as Akron.

by The JuggerNitt on Aug 5, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

How long?

Before we hear the P.A. announce “Todays surface brought to you by ……………”

by JIMPSU on Aug 4, 2009 7:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Two years

Tops.

DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?

by ReadingRambler on Aug 4, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Field Turf Or Not

Truth is that the playing surface at Beaver Stadium has come from a sod farm in New Jersey for the last 20 years or so. Maybe doing this deal is the first step toward some custom designed playing surface that would really be our own.

As long as it cuts down on knee and ankle injuries I am all for it.

by NoRebound on Aug 5, 2009 2:17 AM EDT reply actions  

Probably due to the profile

You have to remember that the sod is just the top layer of a multi-layer system. Sod farms in New Jersey are usually grown in sandy soil, so it probably means that PSU has a sand-based soil profile. USGA golf greens are grown in largely the same way. As far as I know, there are no sand-based sod farms in Pennsylvania. It’s more local than most—we’ve had to source sod from two states away just to make sure it was just right.

by Cairo on Aug 5, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

93 sod didn't

Know this for a fact. The 93 sod was from Joe’s buddy in Lancaster county. Trouble all the way.

To preempt the next post, although sod in NJ is often grown on sand the Beaver Stadium soil is cruddy clay and has been improved by aeration, topdressing, drill & fill aeration w/ sand, etc. by Bob Hudzik for years. Sand based sod placed on top of soil will almost always fail to root. The answer is to wash the sod so no sand remains and they may be doing that at Beaver Stadium, I don’t know.

by FG Dreadnought on Aug 5, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting cont.

I can’t remember to be forthright. I though Lancaster was the original and that is probably correct. The delay Lancaster caused, putting the project in the July time frame was the culprit. No way sod will work well and root well inside a stadium with no air flow and July heat. It it was done when scheduled, late May or early June it had a better chance.

Turfgrass rooting nearly stops after the end of May, this is a fact. You will get some large roots developing but they provide no root mass or feeder roots to gather moisture and nutrients or provide stability for use of the field. The washed sod was a great idea as they had the base of poor soil to work against. So a July sodding with washed sod was the best they could do. It was stressed to the max and contracted Summer Patch, a turfgrass disease that kills roots. Since there were few if any new roots growing into the native soil, no knitting of the sod could take place. All due to bad timing due to Mr. Lancaster, a buddy of the king.

Dr. Vargas (MSU) and Dr. Turgeon (PSU) provided the antiseptic version but between the lines it seems that they said the heat was a big issue along with the disease which comes with the heat in Bluegrass and kills what little rooting may have occurred. If the sod job had taken place at the correct time or at least a month earlier it had a better chance to be successful. Done with the timing in this article it was doomed from the beginning. Actually should have been done in April but the spring game, etc. prohibited that.

So, we had Bob Hudzik as the fall guy for all the incompetence of the project that he had no control over due to the buddy system, sodding at the wrong time due to University requirements and what ever else happened like a hot summer and stress induced Summer Patch of bluegrass. This is my beef. Bob is a highly respected turfgrass manager and is a featured speaker at conferences nationwide. He is a professional hampered by the whims of others and then is the fall guy when it fails.

The plastic grass deal is all Andy McNitt. Andy works in sports turf and is also a nationally recognized expert. He realizes that most athletic fields are not like Beaver Stadium. He deals in reality. Fields with 20 games a week, poor soil and non existant turf and multiple injuries. He knows that natural turf can’t perform in that situation and most sports fields are used just that way. So for years Andy has researched artificial turfs and is on the cutting edge of the development of good plastic grass that can perform under multiple games per week without the increased injury issues so prevalent in the older Astroturf fields.

Kudos on finding the info from Joe Vargas and Al Turgeon. Good investigative work!

by FG Dreadnought on Aug 6, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually jesse dug up the article earlier in this thread

but I had read it a while ago as well (perhaps jesse posted it then, too, I dunno)

by The JuggerNitt on Aug 6, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Everyone knows the best of the 717 is west of the Susquehanna.

DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?

by ReadingRambler on Aug 10, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jeez

The buddy system should really sod off.

(You get that, camera guy?)

DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?

by ReadingRambler on Aug 10, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought in 93 there was an issue with a drought or something else that prevented the sod

from the original supplier to be ready, and so they had to go to a different supplier. Was the Lancaster guy the original supplier or the replacement?

Beaver Stadium: A decision case in football field management

Regardless of the care taken to control soil water, aera-tion, and fertility—and protect the turf from paint-inducedphytotoxicity—the turf gradually deteriorated. Annual blue-grass (Poa annua L.) and creeping bentgrass (Agrostisstolonifera L.), whose presence is often indicative of poordrainage and excessive soil compaction (Turgeon, 1999),eventually invaded. As a consequence, the field had to beresodded several times since the time it was originally estab-lished to obtain acceptable turf quality. The last resoddingwas in the summer of 1993.

The 1993 Season: Following the intersquad game in May 1993, all sod wascut from the field with a sod cutter and removed. The soilwas deeply tilled with a chisel plow to open the compactedsoil, then disked, harrowed, and graded to break up severe-ly compacted clods. Sod that had been ordered early in theyear was scheduled to arrive in early June; however, due toa severe drought lasting through the spring, the sod was notsuitable for harvesting. Finally, after several false starts,replacement sod was obtained from another producer.Crews were ready to do the installation when the sod arrived1 July. By the time the first load arrived, it was 0830 h (8:30a.m.) and the temperature within the stadium had alreadyexceeded 24°C; by midday, it was 41°C. It took a day and ahalf to complete the job. Large, tractor-mounted rolls ofwashed sod measuring 1.2 m across and 9.2 m long wereunrolled and placed onto the carefully prepared plantingbed. By midafternoon of the second day, all of the sod wasin place and the entire field hand watered. Initially theresults of the sodding operation appeared favorable. Rootingwas proceeding as expected and the new turf was holding upwell, despite the above-average temperatures and droughtyconditions persisting through midsummer. On Friday, 13August, just 8 d before the first scheduled game, however, itwas obvious to nearly everyone that there was a problem.Even under light traffic, sections of sod were easily dis-lodged. What roots had developed earlier in the summerwere now gone; the culprit was later identified by PennState’s Disease Diagnostic Lab as Magnoporthe poae, thecausal organism of summer patch disease (Vargas, 1994, p.76–79).

by The JuggerNitt on Aug 6, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't read to much into this, especially OMG BEAVER STADIUM WILL BE FAKE GRASS

PSU has one of the best turgrass management programs in the country, and these companies are talking about doing a research extension with the university. Yes, we could probably get a free astroturf field out of the deal, but if I remember right, they also use Beaver Stadium’s grass as a teaching tool to TGM students. I’m not in the major myself, but I doubt they’re just going to convert every grass field on the campus to turf and miss out on being able to have TGM students seeing what they’re learning in action.

The College of Ag has a lot of research extensions with dairy companies (Land of lakes, etc.), but you don’t see Breyers or some other ice cream company selling Creamery ice cream in stores, or even having outside companies make the foods that the creamery makes on site in their own facilities, then being shipped to the Creamery (cheeses, milk, ice teas, etc.)

by dawsonPSU10 on Aug 5, 2009 3:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I would think a good turf grass field

make a lot of sense for the sports where the ball rolls like soccer or field hockey or such. No “bad bounces” from a divot or such. And in the spring rainy season they can play those sports with minimal effect of the turf.

However, the football fields across the country have pretty much cycled back to natural turf. Not to say it couldn’t go the other way again. Hope we always play on grass and the football players stay off the grass after hours!

by PaJoe on Aug 5, 2009 6:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Field Hockey was my first guess

as a “test” site for anything they work on for a new surface. I mean, the field they play on is called AstroTurf Field…

I guess it’s also feasible that they would try using any new/revolutionary turf surfaces at Jeffrey Field or Medlar Field (or inside Holuba Hall, for that matter).

"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

by IcersGuy on Aug 6, 2009 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I asked about that

Hudzik said field hockey preferred AstroTurf to grass. They may be one of the last places that use AstroTurf instead of grass or FieldTurf

Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.

by WFY on Aug 6, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

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