Stop The Punt Returner Madness
Took notice of this commentary from PennLive's Joe Hermitt advocating against Evan Royster as punt returner:
Is it just me, or does this seem like a disaster waiting to happen? Royster, a second team All-Big Ten choice in 2008 as well as a 1,200 yard rusher, is arguably the Lions' second most valuable offensive player, behind quarterback Daryll Clark. The valuable Royster has already taken one cheap shot fielding a punt against Akron, drawing a 15 yard penalty. Unlike carrying the ball from the running back position, fielding punts, with gunners flying down the field at breakneck speed, leaves the returner more vulnerable.According to the Patriot-News Penn State beat reporter Bob Flounders, Paterno said "Right now, Royster's the best one we have" While that may be true, several others seem like they could fill the role--speedy wide out Chaz Powell, cornerback A.J. Wallace or lightning-fast freshman Devon Smith. Paterno has historically chosen more experienced, sure handed guys to stick back there (remember Calvin Lowery?) so don't look for the exciting Smith anytime soon.
It's time for a little common sense here. The 15-yard penalty mentioned was an Akron player delivering a late shot and leading with his helmet. That has nothing to do with the action during a punt return -- it was just a guy making a stupid decision around the pile, which can happen on any play. It wasn't like Royster was looking skyward at the descending punt and was blasted between the numbers with a helmet.
Additionally, yes, we can name a number of players who are faster than Royster. Powell and Devon Smith have questionable hands, and did not perform well on punt returning duties in practice. A.J. Wallace dropped a relatively easy interception last week. These are not people who should be returning punts. Catching a punt takes a special kind of talent -- try it sometime. It's a hell of a lot different than catching a kickoff, both in trajectory and the distance between the point of catch and oncoming tacklers. It's not a position for the inexperienced or butterfingered.
If the coaches determine that Royster is the best guy for the job, why is anyone questioning it? What happened to the theory of getting the ball in the hands of your best players? Dez Bryant and Jeremy Maclin returned punts for Okie State and Missouri last year. They were pretty important to their teams. Same with Arrelious Benn at Illinois and Kyle Wilson (WAC 1st team CB) at Boise State.
Please, let's stop pretending that Joe Paterno is using a beefy fullback as a punt returner. It's an all-conference tailback who set up his blocks and has the best vision of any Penn State running back of the past 20 years. If other guys earn the coaches' trust and can catch the ball, they'll eventually get a shot. Relax.
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56 comments
Comments
Personally
I think they’re waiting for Devon Smith to get his hands together. He’s still young, and no one got a clean hit on him during his time out on the field. Given how much time Smith has seen I bet we’ll see him midway through the season. Just a hunch.
You’re right, this whole punt return thing is over blown. The coverage guys are the ones that take the big punishment.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Sep 10, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right about Smith.
And I think the Royster / Zug / Astorino combo is more of a caretaker role until other guys can prove they can catch the ball in practice.
--
"Not everybody is the perfect person in the world. Everyone does - kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me." -- Terrelle Pryor
by Run Up The Score on Sep 10, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
besides....
im sure royster is smart enough to fair catch the ball unless he has an obvious opportunity to return the ball.
"We are not normal. We are legends. We are Penn State." - Deon Butler
by Stately NOVA Lion on Sep 10, 2009 2:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
I’ve been waiting for somebody to come out and say this, and I agree completely.
The man is a football player; he’s not made of glass. He’s one of our smartest, most explosive, and sure-handed football players – perfect for the job.
by Larry Skywalker on Sep 10, 2009 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Amen brotha
I hate this argument that you can’t put your best player back there to return a punt. Get the ball in the hands of your play makers I say. But more important than anything, make sure you put a guy there that you can count on to catch the ball. I can’t think of any player ever getting knocked out of the game from taking a hit on a punt return.
Sean Lee and Mike Mauti tore up their knees just making a cut in open space. Same thing with Matt Hahn. I’ll say it again. I’m more worried about Royster getting his ankle twisted on the bottom of a pile after a three yard gain than I am of him taking a shot on a punt return.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Sep 10, 2009 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Clearly
we need to take him out of the running game. He’s our second best offensive player and it’s foolish to set him up time and time again for tackles against opposing linebackers. I mean have you ever seen a linebacker? They’re scary.
BSD
by Kevin HD on Sep 10, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right on
Most of you have no idea what it like not having a guy that can handle punts. This was a problem with our great teams of the late 60s and early 70s. The D would give us 3 and out then we would hold our breath just hoping the punt would be caught. Forget about a run back. It was a moral victory when the ball was safely handed over to the offense. These are the early memories burned into Joe Paterno’s head. Royster will and should handle punts until someone else proves themselves worthy.
by ageing lion on Sep 11, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still feel uneasy about it
There has to be SOMEONE out there who can field punts, and even if they’re not as good returning, as long as they don’t fumble it, I’m fine. Unless you have one of those electric returners out there, you’re not gonna see much more than a 5-10 yard average difference out there, anyway, so why risk it with a guy not known for his durability?
I’m fine with this, as long as Royster doesn’t get hurt, but if that happens, there will be a lot of hindsight “we shouldn’t have taken the risk”, when right now we have the foresight, and are ignoring it.
by The JuggerNitt on Sep 10, 2009 3:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I understand the concern, but the risk of a key fumble outweighs the risk of injury IMO. I’ll admit to being totally petrified every time I saw DWill back there, and those forward-diving catches just killed me. I felt very comfortable that Royster had the hands last week and I don’t think anyone on the team is as good at waiting for blocking to develop than #22, so it’s not just his hands.
BSD
by Kevin HD on Sep 10, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still just don't like it.
I just don’t. And I won’t(well ok, if he breaks a big one or something maybe I will).
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
by Roland86 on Sep 10, 2009 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What does it say
I said before, you often see WR’s and backup TB’s returning kicks b/c you want to get those types of players the ball more often that is typically possible. In the case of a starting TB, you have the option and even the obligation of handing him the ball 20 times a game anyway.
I think Joe’s admitted openly he’s willing to sacrifice 5 carries of Royster for the punt returns. This is extremely interesting to me, b/c Royster averages over 6 yards a carry — so what Joe is effectively saying is that he trusts Royster to return more than 30 yards in punts a game…
The whole thing isn’t such a big deal to me, it just seems like a round-about-way of getting your TB the ball instead of just handing it off to him. Does that say something about our run game this year? Does it say Royster’s talent exceeds the limitations of a TB? Is this just filling time before they can trust Green or Smith?
My opinion is that Royster’s a fantastic football player, though he is not the most durable tailback. Hall wants to keep Royster fresh and healthy and so they are trading some tough-running between the tackles for punt returns and receiving work.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
by millzners on Sep 10, 2009 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
More carries for Royster, I say.
But, I don’t buy the sacrafice of 30 yards. Those carries will go to Green instead, who averaged 5 ypc last year. So, that’s a sacrafice of 5 yards. In exchange for even one less fumble on a punt return, I’ll take it.
And yeah, I think if Green or Smith prove they have the hands for it, you’d see one of them back there instead.
by Pallet on Sep 10, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After last week
I think you may be able to kiss those 5 and 6 yard per carry averages good by. If you take the the fake punt out of the mix, we averaged less than 4 against Akron. And we’re talking about Akron, not even practice, we’re talking about Akron.
And I’m not buying that we we’re not ready for the 3-3-5 nonsense for a second. Rich Rodriguez runs 3-3-5 at Michigan, and we had like, the enitire offseason to prepare.
"far less knowledgeable than the average poster here"
by jesse. on Sep 10, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I have that feeling too. Syracuse will tell us a lot about where our run blocking is.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
by millzners on Sep 10, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"we had like, the entire offseason to prepare"
or we could have just figured, “we’ll do fine against Akron, and Michigan doesn’t look to be too much of a threat now, but we’ll worry about them when we get to them” and didn’t practice against the 3-3-5 much, and focused instead on defenses we were actually going to see that would give us trouble?
by The JuggerNitt on Sep 10, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the record,
I’m going with the Akron 3-3-5 was so stout against the run that we were forced to pass. I guess we’ll see. Hopefully, there’s a lot more balance this week.
by Pallet on Sep 10, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If by stout you mean dedicated to run defense than I agree. I was probably a bit overconcerned on Tuesday, it’s just that I figured we would be able to do better than we did no matter what kind of priorities Akron came in with.
The line looked a little clueless downfield, but I don’t think they are incapable of blocking.
BSD
by Kevin HD on Sep 10, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 3-3-5
I think there is a tendancy to look at “3-3-5” and think “OMG How could we not run against that?”
But really, Akron was stuffing eight guys in the box all day. With only six or seven blockers to handle them, it’s easy to see why Royster couldn’t find room to run.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Sep 10, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The stand up guys in a 3-3-5 all play down hill
Tough to get wide and difficult for a young offensive line to pick up assignments because of all the movement. And, when their gameplan is a sell-out to stop the run, they’re gonna stop it to a degree. The offense did exactly what it should do – start chucking it to loosen them up. Pass protection isn’t much of surprise, either. The whole idea of the 3-3-5 is to sacrifice size for speed. I think the o-line just overpowered them in pass protection but were just confused and a step slower in teh run game because some of the guys on the line were making their first start in their positions. Tougher to play that way – and a big advantage for the defense that relies on speed. Blown assignments yielded a lousy day running the ball.
by Spats on Sep 11, 2009 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you quantify turnovers that don’t occur when Royster returns punts that would have occurred when his backup does?
Can we afford to sacrifice 30 yards as insurance against a big turnover momentum swing?
by Larry Skywalker on Sep 10, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops
Guess I should have read the response by Pallet, making the same case as me only better, before posting.
by Larry Skywalker on Sep 10, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sacrificing yards
I don’t see it as giving up 30 yards rushing to get 30 yards in punt returns. It’s more like giving up five carries to ensure zero fumbles. And if those 5 carries go to Green who averages 4 ypc instead of Royster’s 6 ypc, you only give up ten yards.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Sep 10, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Next
You will want him trying out for the Lacrosse team.
I think the problem everyone is having is that our confidence is shaky at best in our second RB option. If Beachum turns out to get more snaps and is a stud I don’t think you will hear any complaints about using Royster. I don’t mind him doing the job, but I would like to see a better RB backup if he goes down for any reason.
Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good.
by psu on Sep 10, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hear! Here!
Put a short stick in his hands and send him up to play for Coach Thiel!
"Sometimes, children, fear is an appropriate response"
by TexasLax on Sep 10, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thiel would probably make him a goalie…or spend the next couple years continuing in mediocredy
by farrellpsu on Sep 11, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget that Joe knows he has some talent behind Royster
Beechum, Green, Carter, etc…they are all capable of playing at this level.
I love ER as a RB but not sure if he is a gamebreaker returning punts, but I trust in Joe.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, GUIDO
by SweepTheLeg on Sep 10, 2009 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
respectfully disagree
i would want Royster as fresh as possible on first and ten. punts take a LOT out of you. i’d love to see a stat from the Akron game that showed royster’s ypc on his forst carry after a punt return. i may be way wrong
by hbeach08 on Sep 10, 2009 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bah
They usually go to a television timeout after punts anyway.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Sep 10, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
name one....
….starting NFL tail back to regularly return kicks in the last 20 years
it reeks of lack of depth
it’s a junior varsity move
by hbeach08 on Sep 10, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its different. In the Pros there is a S load of $$$$ invested in a player over the long term
In college, if you have depth its worth the risk…IMO
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, GUIDO
by SweepTheLeg on Sep 10, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reggie Bush
Your choice of college (USC) or pro (N.O. Saints).
"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
by IcersGuy on Sep 11, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha.
Reggie is also not the only guy in NO. He is not a “superstar”
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, GUIDO
by SweepTheLeg on Sep 11, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not typical
Because running backs aren’t usually considered good at catching the ball.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Sep 11, 2009 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Data...
Line after a punt return where the first play from scrimmage is a Royster run – 1 carry, 1 yard.
Line after a punt return where Royster’s first run comes at any point – 1 carry, 4 yards. (This was the 4th play from scrimmage.)
Totals – 2 carries, 5 yards. Difference of 3 ypc. With amount of data, it’s all negligible.
Wanted to note that I removed a data point of 1 carry for 10 yards from the second group, with my reason being that the “return” came in the 1st quarter, but the run didn’t occur until the start of the 2nd. The rest period between quarters should be enough to recover, regardless of punt return status. (Zug fair caught that punt anyway, making the data point even more null/void.)
Also note that he only had one actual return – for 2 yards. They used Green for much of the following series and scored a TD on the drive (thanks mostly to starting at the Akron 26). Royster also fair caught two punts (same number as Zug). Take all this info (or lack thereof), combined with an overall ineffectiveness to have a consistent ground attack, and I just don’t see enough evidence to prove the point.
Interesting side note – 6 of our 8 first-half drives started with a pass.
"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
by IcersGuy on Sep 11, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks...
…for checking that. agreed not a big enough sample.
Agree to disagree, some people are fine with Royster fielding punts, I’m not one of them.
It’s not an injury issue with me, I just would prefer to have him focused on taking handoffs. I’m sure he’s a “heady” enough player to manage return schemes, but I’s rather he be our #1 tailback and that’s it.
by hbeach08 on Sep 11, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Royster has the best vision in 20 years?
I’d say LJ
by queler on Sep 10, 2009 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd say Royster
LJ is/was great, but he also had the luxury of being able to bowl through defenders and carry them that extra yard. I think he also may have been a step quicker in the open field. Royster pretty much depends on his balance and vision, plus being quick, though not really “fast”, and not known for carrying defenders after contact.
by The JuggerNitt on Sep 10, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not so sure
I think Royster has better vision. He can see holes before they open.
Johnson was great at using his blockers and waiting for the hole to open. And once it did, he had the explosiveness to blow through it.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Sep 10, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Akron punter had a good game.
It’s not as though there were obvious situations where a player would start to run back his punts in that game. The punter never outkicked his coverage, and his short punts still had plenty of hang time.
If you want to argue that Royster doesn’t belong as PR, I wouldn’t say that he needs to be protected from injury. I would argue that he protects himself and plays conservatively as a result. I’m OK with it, but if you want to see more returns, put in a guy who’s a bit more reckless. It’s risk/reward.
by Cairo on Sep 10, 2009 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Additionally
There was never a punt where I thought, “Boy, Royster should have tucked that ball and run with it.” You take what you can get.
by Cairo on Sep 10, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
And I have to say I thought Royster looked good in catching those punts. He got himself under the ball and made the catches look easy. There was no bobbling or last minute shuffling of the feet.
I hate to say this because it’s pointed out to death, but I think this is where his lacrosse background helps him. Catching the ball in lacrosse is hard. It’s not like baseball or football where you catch with your hands. You are using a net on the end of a stick. You really have to watch the ball into the net. So I have no doubt that Royster’s hand-eye coordination is finely tuned.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Sep 10, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Explosive
Not the word I’d use for Royster. Vision, balance, patience, yes, but not explosive.
I wouldn’t have a problem with him fielding punts in big games, because I agree that his hands are the best. I also could advocate him in the role of the <50 PR in the >50/<50 punt returner model that they’ve featured the past few years.
But, for the most part I would prefer him to remain fresh and not to risk injury. Seems like there are so many other guys to use for this.
by InScoresOfOtherGames on Sep 10, 2009 5:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Royster reminds me of Marcus Allen...great vision/balance/leverage...doesn't lose many yards
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, GUIDO
by SweepTheLeg on Sep 10, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also reminds me of Franco Harris
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, GUIDO
by SweepTheLeg on Sep 10, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dez Bryant and Maclin
The difference between those two and Royster is that Royster is already getting hit 25-35 times a game between carries, receptions and blocks. A lot of those hits are coming from 250+ pound lineman and LBs, so you really can’t compare that to a WR. I do agree with the philosophy of putting your best players back there, but not when it’s a running back that has a history of injuries
by WPIALkid22 on Sep 10, 2009 6:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Steeler game starts in an hour....
Would there be any interest in an open thread. I don’t like other blogs.
"far less knowledgeable than the average poster here"
by jesse. on Sep 10, 2009 7:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Give your best players the ball...
So Anthony Scirrotto was our best option at returning punts last year?
by smashtheguitar on Sep 10, 2009 7:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When we were antipating a fake...
Yes, he was.
"far less knowledgeable than the average poster here"
by jesse. on Sep 10, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DFC
Designated Fair Catcher
--
"Not everybody is the perfect person in the world. Everyone does - kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me." -- Terrelle Pryor
by Run Up The Score on Sep 10, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How's the punting this year in the B10?
How are the punters this year in the B10? If staff thinks there are no big legs out there then they will seldom outkick the coverage and then less returns…just need someone with good hands not to drop the fair catch and keep the field position… hence Royster.
by '85Fan on Sep 10, 2009 8:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...
Didn’t Michigan have a space cadet kicker or something like that? I forget.
by smashtheguitar on Sep 11, 2009 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally missing the point
I enjoyed a lot of the comments in this post – I need places like this to hear well-formulated opinions on things like the 3-3-5 and why we didn’t run well last week. It’s my reprieve from the Dumas’s in the bleachers around me to just scream “Block somebody!” and “Quit forcing it in there, Clark!” (Seriously, I thought I’d strangle the guy who criticized a pass attempt to a single-covered Zug when the DB was out of position and could only break it up by interfering – which he did but was not called for.)
But everyone is missing the point – There is zero objective evidence that punt returners are getting injured at a greater pace than any other player on the field. I can’t even think of any anecdotal evidence to support that. Anyone remember a player being injured while returning a punt (not covering it)??? If not, then the entire argument is moot, and all hysteria is based on an irrelevant conclusion.
Bacon is almost as great as being a Penn Stater
by NittanyTide on Sep 11, 2009 9:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The basis for the hysteria:
Returning punts looks scary. The returner is standing there with at least a couple of guys running full bore straight at him, and the only thing between him and annihilation seems to be the yellow hankie in the official’s pocket.
The reality is that it’s not as dangerous as it looks… certainly no more so than being a receiver who exposes himself to an unblocked safety coming across the field (see Norwood in the Rose Bowl).
I think at the end of the day, some people just like to hear themselves Pryor, and they’re not happy unless they’re Pryoring about how they could coach the team better than Paterno if given the chance.
"I thought the kid we were using had the potential to be a good quarterback, and I blew that one." - Joseph V. Paterno
by leeharvey418 on Sep 11, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It looks scary
I think that hits the nail on the head. It’s a guy standing there defenseless as the gunner bears down on him at full speed. Sometimes they take a nasty shot if they aren’t smart enough to call for a fair catch. But those shots are almost always to the torso which is the most protected part of the body. Usually when an athlete gets an injury it’s in the limbs. It’s an arm, a shoulder, a hand, a leg, an ankle, or a knee. Those things can get injured on any play.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Sep 11, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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