A Defining Moment?
by Lionspride on Sep 25, 2009 2:13 PM EDT
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Print"...when a defining moment comes along, you define the moment, or the moment defines you." Roy McAvoy.
Every Penn State football season has one: a defining moment. Pick a season. Any season. The defining moments are easy to find in the good seasons. The go ahead touchdown at Michigan in 1994. The whitewash of Nebraska in 2002. The come from behind win at Northwestern in 2005. The pasting of Oregon State in 2008. The defining moments are also there in the not-so-good seasons (though remembering them doesn't really feel that great). The miracle completion in 1999 (vs Minnesota). The loss to Toledo in 2000. The 6-4 loss to Iowa in 2004.
The defining moment goes a long way to determining the course of the rest of the season. Had the Lions fallen to Nebraska, another losing season was imminent. Had the Lions not come from behind to beat Northwestern in 2005, there is a very real chance that the team never competes for the Big Ten title. Had Penn State lost to Oregon State last year, does anyone think a Rose Bowl trip would have been a reality?
This year's defining moment will not be against Ohio State. Not against a suddenly very scary Michigan team. No, this year's defining moment happens tomorrow night. What Penn State does (or doesn't do) in front of a national television audience will make the difference between a BCS contender and a middle of the road team in a middle of the road conference. A solid win against a solid opponent will likely pave the road for a shot at the Big Ten title. A loss means that the projections of Pasadena probably turn in to reservations for San Antonio.
So much of the game of college football is based on confidence. Had Michigan lost to Notre Dame, a sub .500 season would be considered possible. A win over ND, and the program is "Back" (a lot like what happened to PSU after the convincing win vs Minnesota in 2005). A good win equals lots of confidence and continued success. A bad loss means lots of doubt, lots of questions, and lots of pressure.
This 2009 team has a lot of similarities to the 2005 team. New wideouts, a solid running back, an unproven kicker. The 2005 team found its identity on 4th and 15 in Evansville, and again on a bone-jarring hit vs the Gophers. Where will this team find its identity?
We'll know soon enough.
For the Glory,
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good one
P.S “The 2005 team found its identity on 4th and 15 in Evansville” – Its Evanston
but who cares
Maybe I am alone here.
I think people are making way to much out of this game. We are currently a top five team in the country hosting an unranked team in what is considered by many to be one of the toughest stadiums in the country to play. Its going to be a whiteout. Its going to be at night. We are going to be a double digit favorite at kickoff. Really there isn’t any reason this should be a defining moment. Its another game that we clearly should win and I don’t think winning it proves a thing.
We are currently a top five team in the country hosting an unranked team
1) We’re overranked. We don’t know how good we are.
2) Iowa unranked? Who the hell cares? They should be ranked. More importantly, they’re a damn good football team with fast, strong d-linemen, solid linebackers, an improved secondary, good receivers and an improving offense.
Its another game that we clearly should win and I don’t think winning it proves a thing.
You’re at the same time overestimating Penn State, underestimating Iowa, and underestimating what a good win this will be. Iowa will be the second best team we play this year. I’m sorry, but this statement is just wrong. Winning this game will go a long way towards determining what kind of team we have.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Sep 25, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
How are we overranked?
If we don’t know how good they are. I agree that rankings are ridiculous this early in the year as espoused by many college football experts and posters on this site…..BUT……who is to say that PSU is overrated. Florida doesn’t look like the juggernaut it has been nor does Oklahoma nor USC. Ole Miss couldn’t beat SC, nor could its vaunted offense manage more than one touchdown. I have seen Bama and like us, they have a lot of question marks too. So as I said how can you say PSU is overranked or that people are overestimating the teams abilities. Despite the downfalls of the running game the offense is good. Not as good as last year but the potential is there. Our defense is always one of the best and LJ’s troops are going to be on Stanzi’s ass all night long!
Personally, I agree with VVeR. PSU and its fans should expect to win this game. Yes we should respect Iowa but we are the freakin returning Big Ten champ. Champions expect to win and with DC at the helm this team has championship potential.
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?
It's quite simple
I would put us at number 10 or so. This team has just not demonstrated enough to put themselves that high.
I blame whoever came up with the stupid idea of having rankings this early anyway.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Sep 25, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
If you look at the top 25
Its a struggle to find nine teams to put ahead of PSU. IMO neither Cal (struggled with the Gophers) nor LSU (struggled with Washinton) deserve to be in front of us and I cringe evens seeing Boise State in the top 10. Oklahoma, Ohio State, USC, Ole Miss and Va Tech have all lost. The Canes may be top 5 worthy but we will know that for sure after they play Va Tech this weekend. TCU and Cinci are right about where they should be. So to me….putting PSU at 10 doesn’t make sense.
Is there potential for us to lose this game…..absolutely! If we are a minus 3 in the turnover battle our work will be cut out for us and we may be on the L side of the game. That said the team (and the fans) should go into this game with the attitude that PSU, it it protects the football, will handle the Hawkeyes and win by a decent margin. I still think OSU will be “the defining moment” of this season. If we beat the Buckeyes at home and take our third Big 10 crown in 5 years….it goes a long long way to the national status of the program.
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?
I am a little confused.
So apparently it too early to know how good Penn State is, but we have seen enough of Iowa to know they are a really good team. Come on, Iowa almost loss to a DIAA school. Meanwhile we handled our cupcakes. Maybe we didn’t dominate them, but the games were never really in doubt. Flatly put we are a better team then them, we are at home, and we are favored. That doesn’t mean we can’t lose, but it means that we are expected to win. And if and when we do win, nothing changes.
by VVeRPennState on Sep 25, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I would like to point out that Michigan beat us the same year the lost to Appy State.
So I wouldn’t use losses to FCS schools as a barometer.
"Dr. Samuel Johnson's right about Olson Johnson being right."
Correction
JoePa, Morelli and Michigan beat us that year. Was there….miserable game. Appy would have probably beaten us that day too.
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?
You're missing the point.
The 2005 win over NW was the game that kind of set the groundwork for a successful season. It wasn’t a game that pollsters looked back on and said “Wow, what a quality win.” The biggest win that season was unquestionably against Ohio State. That being said, the NW game was the game that defined the team as a winner.
Yes, a win against a tough, possibly overmatched opponent can be THE defining moment of a season.
"Dr. Samuel Johnson's right about Olson Johnson being right."
I agree...
…as a Hawk fan it’s nice to know we don’t have to worry. It’s not like anyone ever expects our team to do anything (unless you ask the average Hawk fan in February- – winters here are long and cold, so we compensate). It must suck to think that you could lose everything tomorrow- – however, it must be nice to know that even if you lose tomorrow you could still end the season in the top 10, just because YOU ARE…. PSU (That IS how it goes, right? Wait.).
I mean, how does it feel to start nearly every season in the Top 25 (maybe I should be asking OSU fans that, but I refuse to talk to those Douchey McDouchersteins)? Enjoy the game… I wish I could be there. I just hope both teams have a good showing and we can both start looking at the rest of our schedules (no matter who wins). That having been said, I hope we knock off the #5 team in the country tomorrow, then maybe we could both be in the top 10 at the end of the year and we can watch everyone’s “OMG! The Big Ten is good!” face (or whatever).
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Sep 25, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
i completely agree
we are giving Iowa WAY to much credit just because they beat us last year.
defining moments shouldn’t be against unranked teams at home that we SHOULD beat
this could end up being a defining moment though, if our offense just goes apes*&^t and we roll 45-0
that would get people’s attention nationally, and thus be a “defining moment” as in everyone will say “holy crap, maybe PSU really is the #4 team in the country”
Frankly, people are putting way too much stock in Iowa's lack of rank
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Sep 25, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Regardless of rank...
Iowa has had no problem this decade beating us. They’re not some patsy that took a payday to be a scrificial lamb in Beaver Stadium They’re a Big 10 school with a pretty good history of beating us.
So, uh, yeah, I don’t think it’s that unreasonable to respect them and anticipate a tough game.
"Dr. Samuel Johnson's right about Olson Johnson being right."
Iowa was preseason 20 to 22 in most polls.
We have not lost and have the 2nd longest winning streak in college football behind only Florida. That we are not ranked is not only a joke, it is weird.
PSU has lost twice since we last felt the pain of losing. Last I checked, it is a game of wins and losses. And we are not losing very often.
Anyway, if Penn State comes to play the week 1 Iowa, they will get waxed. If they come to play the week 3 Iowa they have a chance.
Remember. Ferentz is 3-1 at Happy Valley and we are 6-4 all time in the so-called greatest homefield in football. And finally, PSU is 16-27 since joining the BIg Ten against Iowa, Michigan, and Ohio State. You have feasted off of the Little 7. I think the Rambler is just being realistic.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. --Albert Einstein
by StoopsMyAss on Sep 25, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
blah blah blah...
waking up in Iowa on any given day would convey ‘the pain of losing’ more than any bad Saturday ever could. Just sayin…
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member
by TheMightyErik on Sep 26, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the Rambler is just being realistic.
For the record, I give a shit about this game. I do not give a shit about Michigan’s streak, or beating up on the Little 7, or Pitt’s 9 national championships, or any of that.
None of that has anything to do with the game being played today.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Sep 26, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Some counterpoints
We have not lost and have the 2nd longest winning streak in college football behind only Florida.
It helps when the only ranked team you played over that span was at home against a team with a recently concussed QB.
That we are not ranked is not only a joke, it is weird.
You know what is also not only a joke, but is weird? Needing two consecutive blocked field goals, which has never happened before, in order to beat a Division 1AA FCS team.
PSU has lost twice since we last felt the pain of losing.
I don’t see Iowa beating USC in LA very often. Ohh wait, it hasn’t happened since the 60’s.
Last I checked, it is a game of wins and losses.
Its apparently also a game filled with tired cliches.
And we are not losing very often.
If you consider 21 times since 2005 not very often, then sure.
Anyway, if Penn State comes to play the week 1 Iowa, they will get waxed. If they come to play the week 3 Iowa they have a chance.
I can’t argue with that. Iowa does have a chance to win, but also a chance to get waxed.
Remember.
I am sensing totally irrelevant stats coming up.
Ferentz is 3-1 at Happy Valley and we are 6-4 all time in the so-called greatest homefield in football.
Ahh yes, there are the irrelevant stats. After all, we all now that 1996 game that Iowa won by one will have a huge impact on the game tomorrow.
And finally, PSU is 16-27 since joining the BIg Ten against Iowa, Michigan, and Ohio State.
Read that again. Enjoy it. Its one of the few times you will see Iowa mentioned in the same breath as Michigan and Ohio State.
You have feasted off of the Little 7.
Yeah we just can’t compete against real football teams. Its not like we are 9-3 in bowls games since joining the Big 10 or anything.
I think the Rambler is just being realistic.
There is a difference between being realistic and pessimistic.
by VVeRPennState on Sep 26, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
well done, sir
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member
by TheMightyErik on Sep 26, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you just strengthened
my argument. Or at least, you did not rebutt any part of it.
I can tell…this campus will be Jonestown II if you lose. Get over it. You win some and you lose some. Lately, though, you have been losing some (to the Hawkeyes).
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. --Albert Einstein
"Get over it."
Get over what hawkeye? Nothing’s happened yet except a bunch of jaw flappin’ from a bunch of hillbillies who think they’re smart. Iowa? Where’s Iowa? Who are the hawkeyes? They needed two blocked field goals to beat an FCS team? Pathetic! Absolutely pathetic! Seriously if I were you I would keep my fool mouth shut until the final seconds are ticked off the clock tonight.
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
scoreboard
scoreboard dude…last I checked, we’re undefeated and took your ass out the most recent time we’ve played.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. --Albert Einstein
you are the only member of BHGP I dislike
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member
by TheMightyErik on Sep 27, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, please
It’s not pessimism. That’s shit. I just think this is a much tougher game than some realize or want to admit.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Sep 26, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Rank Schmank
Banka dink lank tank.
"For me the game wasn’t grounded in reality. It was about the uniform you put on that turned you into a warrior. It was about the mythology of the battle, the victory, the defeat, the struggle." - Mike Reid, PSU '69
I might not be as worried as Rambler
but there IS serious potential to lose this game. I don’t think we lose, and I also think there is potential for us to win big, but we still have a lot of questions and they are better than both their ranking and perception. Quite frankly I wouldn’t be surprised by any result, other than Iowa blowing us out. As far as defining moments go, this definitely feels that like that to me too.
Tremendous post
A defining moment often isn’t the biggest, most exciting, most advantageous to your ranking, etc. moment. A defining moment instead is the foundation for how the season will be progress and ultimately be remembered.
For that reason this game absolutely possesses the opportunity to reveal this season’s defining moment.
A huge question about 2009 Penn State is whether its better than 2008. While 2009 Penn State is ranked higher than 2008, its safe to say we all have our doubts. 2008 couldn’t top Iowa, 2009 has the opportunity to do so, and perhaps in the process reveal a defining moment.
even if we beat Iowa
I don’t think we’ll be better than 2008, at least not at this point in the year, if we continue to improve and get a lot better by the end, it’s possible.
by PSUisMyHeart on Sep 25, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
I think it could be a while until we see a PSU offensive line as good as last year’s unit.
I miss Shipley. /sniffle
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Sep 25, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I can see Rambler's point....
I am confident, but I would be more so if the offense hadn’t sleep walked through the first three games.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Sep 25, 2009 3:24 PM EDT reply actions
I don't think Iowa or PSU's rank is relevant
PSU hasn’t played as well as we all think they can. Either they step up and do, or they don’t. If they don’t tomorrow, this will be seen as a defining game for the season. If they step up their game and play great, then this will be seen as the point where they turned it on.
I’d argue that even a mediocre performance with a win is defining, because if they don’t turn it on during a whiteout, they won’t.
by InScoresOfOtherGames on Sep 25, 2009 3:49 PM EDT reply actions
They will play better because they finally have something to be excited about. It’s difficult to get up for games like Temple, ’Cuse and Akron… BigTen play basically begins a new season. B10 opener, at home, a whiteout… it’s the perfect storm. Finally game that really matters, a game that will reach every home in the nation. A nice win here will build a ton of confidence and really make them a strong force to contend with….
“the game is 90% half mental”. ~ John Madden… but seriously, the mental aspect of the game is so huge and I haven’t seen them come out with the confidence of last year… The swagger all the great teams had… It’s missing, but with a game like tomorrow, it could all come back.
I think that the defining moment that you cited
in each of the past season’s happened in a game when you didn’t expect it.
Maybe we’ll have a defining moment tomorrow night; maybe not. If we lose, I suppose its defining. If we win by 10, but struggle on offense, I’m not sure what we’ve learned.
Could be a defining moment, doesn’t mean it will be.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
I'll just say this...
I expect us to be in a dogfight in Ann Arbor. We might have even have to come back to win it.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Sep 25, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Retract...retract.....retract
Seriously…..just cause Michigan beat a BS ND team (that should have lost to MSU)….does not mean that they are good or can compete with the Lions. The DL is licking their chops for this matchup(true feshman QB)! Watch the IU game today and retract…Michigan is not yet an elite Big 10 program (though I will concede that Dick Rod will get them there eventually)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?
Ok......since I asked Rambler to retract his Michigan comments.....
I will concede that he was correct in his estimation of Iowa. The hawkeys played a hell of a game on the defensive side of the ball. The PSU offense looked inept in part due to the pressure from Iowa’s front four. No team in the country is going to win after turning the ball over 6 TIMES!!!!!!!!!! I still believe that PSU fans should expect to beat a team like Iowa whom they vastly outman (Wegher was a great grab for them though) ….all in all though our team was not prepared!
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?
What is very humorous to Iowa fans
is that you think that because you are wearing white that makes a difference. If you were wearing nothing…well, maybe.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. --Albert Einstein
You're right.
They’re just shirts. Home field advantage has never had an effect on a game. It’s all played on the field, right? Screaming obscenities never killed anyone.
The Whitehouse takes a loud and proud fanbase and makes them rabid. Even one false start, one timeout called before it’s supposed to means that it did it’s job.
But I assume Iowa is above all that. This is 7 on 7 to the Hawkeyes since they’ve had our number so often. Don’t understand how so many Iowans can play the no respect card and still tout they have beaten us 6 out of 7.
I was out in the trenches, which enables me to paint such a powerful picture, like Apocalypse Now.-Cormega
"What is very humorous to Iowa fans is that you think that because you are wearing white that makes a difference"
yeah that’s why you guys had a “green out” when we came last year. Not only was it ugly and useless, it was also totally unoriginal.
But the hawkeyes have never been unoriginal before. Oh yeah, except when you stole the Steelers colors.
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
Charming.
Anyway, if you were playing a marquee school this week — say, OSU or LSU or USC — and someone mentioned that they hadn’t given up a rushing TD in 25 quarters, would the school’s brand make it more concerning for you? Or would you call them hillbillies and move on.
In general, I think things would be a little quieter.
Culturally, you’re really missing it with respect to the hillbillies remark, but that’s okay.
Mr. Boh Knows ...
I'm not the one on the hawkeyes board (do they have one?)
talking about all the loses over the years and PSU’s record to OTHER teams like that matters. I didn’t start the trash talking.
I don’t know why you people would come on here and expect sunshine and flowers from us with that crap. I’m not here to make friends with you.
Maybe you didn’t talk crap, but then again I wasn’t addressing my comment to you.
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
Stoops is just saying that history matters.
And I agree. We play with more confidence, because of history, against PSU than even Iowa State. And DC, if he’s not careful, will squeeze the air out of the ball, trying too hard, because he’s obsessing on history as well.
Mr. Boh Knows ...
Thinking that way...
will make Iowa ripe for a loss.
“Take it seriously guys, but not too seriously. I mean, we have been beating them for years while some of you were still in high school. And what happened then has clearly warped their minds. The game is practically ours.”
I was out in the trenches, which enables me to paint such a powerful picture, like Apocalypse Now.-Cormega
WELL...SINCE YOU ASKED
Frentz is 3-1 at the Whitehouse and was favored only once. So, I guess we are ABOVE IT…so much so that we are 6-4 all-time. So, scream yourself hoarse, but the facts be the facts.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. --Albert Einstein
That includes a BS 6-4
win in the dark years were Robbie Gould missed at least 2 field goals. Maybe three….I try to block it out!
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?
Oh, I forgot
PSU fans only count years when they win….too freakin funny (and sad). I guess your GPA only included courses you got an A? That’s why you’re not taken seriously.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. --Albert Einstein
Um, technically...
Ferentz is 0-0 at the “White House”.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Sep 26, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Ferentz now is
1-0 at White House
Good game…I feel for Clark. Seems like a nice guy. Now, go beat OSU baby!
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. --Albert Einstein
by StoopsMyAss on Sep 26, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It was right when I wrote it ;)
Your defensive line is a pack of soul destroyers. Beat Michigan
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Sep 26, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a long road in the B10
but this thing is far from over. I think PSU can beat anyone. We have a hell of D and the turnovers killed you. We have a good track record forcing them, but they just were back breakers. And, we got a star making performance from Clayborne. We have known he’s good, but now it should get out.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. --Albert Einstein
by StoopsMyAss on Sep 26, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
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