The Fallout: Penn State 13th In Coaches' Poll
by KevinHD on Sep 27, 2009 3:34 PM EDT
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PrintThe truth is that Penn State probably had no business being in the top 5. Coming off a strong year and returning some stars is usually a good sign, but Penn State played very poor teams early on, all almost 30 point dogs, and looked very mediocre (although clearly composed of a different level of talent) when they built a 3-0 record and an 0-3 mark against the spread.
After yesterday's loss the polls are, well, strange. The AP has Penn State 15th, two spots behind Iowa. I have no idea how the coaches' were able to justify us at 13, four spots ahead of Iowa. Strange, but what I would expect from a stupid polling system that is comprised of the worst possible pool of voters who don't (and can't) watch more than 5% of the games.
Here's your poll stalker. The highest vote is a 10 and nine people left Penn State off of their ballots.
Of interest: The coaches love Florida, bump Boise State into the five-spot, and slot Ohio State at #9 (Cincinnati is getting dangerously close at 4-0, the land at #11).
As far as undefeated drops go, Penn State actually got out in decent shape:
| Team | Last Week | This Week | Change |
| Miami | 13 | 21 | -8 |
| Penn State | 4 | 13 | -9 |
| Mississippi | 5 | 18 | -13 |
| California | 6 | 19 | -13 |
The good news is that no one outside of Florida, probably Texas and maybe Alabama seems that good. Getting back into the top 5 is not going to be an impossible task if the team takes care of business into November. And as awesome as Iowa looked on the offensive and defensive line, they've got a full slate to take on including road games against a some how 4-0 Wisconsin and Ohio State.
It's a long way to go until the finish line.
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Still feels too high for now.
Maybe working our way back into a t25 type team. But feel more in the 30 range to me right now. I also don’t think Iowa is the 15th best team in the land. But I guess we’ll find out.
We are a top 25 team
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Sep 27, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
We haven't showed it yet, if that's true.
by PSUinBOSSton on Sep 27, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither has anyone else in the top 25, if you've been paying attention
We deserve to be somewhere in the middle.
Seriously
this year is littered with mediocre teams. I wonder why.
by PSUisMyHeart on Sep 29, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Breaking through the finish line
looks a lot harder. I almost feel that a BCS bowl this year would put us in a “Rose Bowl” type situation again.
And no one else wants to say it, but I’ll say it: Anyone really thinking Joe Pa is going to get that MNC before the end now? Then the question becomes: does anyone want to send Joe Pa out on an 8-4 season? I’m not jumping off the ledge yet, but I’m starting to think that a fresh start is the best option, and sooner rather than later.
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will-Sam Cooke
I think you're over-reacting
We can’t go undefeated every year. Under Paterno, we have always been the program that has to rebuild every few years. Frankly, anyone expecting an NC this year was expecting way too much.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Sep 27, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just saying
The teams we like to mention are names with, we are not. If it would have been a close loss, this whole thing would have been different. But the team was outcoached and outplayed. I’m not asking for perfection which is impossible all of the time. I’m asking for someone to explain to me how you get beat by the same coach on a regular basis, and I don’t want to hear about the dark years because we have the talent. And the series with Carr shows this is not an isolated incident. And let’s not mention the refs this time. Being set in your ways comes at a price.
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will-Sam Cooke
We're set in our ways? Really?
I seem to recall Penn State changing their entire offense last year – something Paterno hasn’t done since, ummm, maybe ’82.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Sep 27, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I also remember the staff
Going to UT and studying how they used VY so we could adapt to Mrob’s talents better.
I also remember that freshman see significant time now, which never used to happen.
Joe has adapted more in the past 5 years than ever before. If he didn’t adapt, he would be at home sipping ol granddad while someone else roams the sidelines.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
Is it possible there hasn't been enough change?
Iowa has beaten us when they were bad, when evenly matched, and when better. Is all of that just luck?
Maybe someone just needs to analyze the loss better than I can. I just think there is enough blame to spread around.
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will-Sam Cooke
It has nothing to do with not changing enough
Iowa is better than us up front. There’s not much you can do about that.
Oh, and, in general, Iowa is not considerably less talented than us this year.
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Sep 27, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeez
we lose one game and it’s time to fire JoePa again!
Lucky gun, fake fifth, 8XY bitch
Daryll Clark, The Penn State Football Story Is...
How can you justify saying something like that?
I know this loss hurts, but look how far we’ve come this decade. JoePa was ready to be canned, and now we’ve returned to our status as a perennial Top 25 team. It’s foolish to think that a MNC is out of the question, but why does that even matter right now? I want to see Joe carried off the field on the team’s shoulders as much as anyone, but I think you’re letting one loss really get you down.
I don’t know if you’ve payed attention to the recruiting, but we’re getting a lot of great recruits showing tremendous interest in PSU, and what’s even better is that the team this year is young. We’ve got young guys everywhere, who while currently are inexperienced, are playing quite well (aside from the O-line, but with time, they can only get better..I think). Yeah, so we’re not pulling in #1 recruiting classes every year, but if there’s one thing I’ve learned about PSU vs other programs it’s that we have possibly the best coaching staff in the nation, and are able to develop relative unknowns, low/unranked players, and walkons into superstars in addition to making already hyped kids even better. With the way we develop players on a consistent basis thanks to the coaching staff, a MNC within the next 3-5 years is not out of the question at all (and in the past 4 years we’ve been one win away from that goal, so who’s to say that trend can’t continue?. JMO, but I think you’re letting this loss get to you a bit more than you should.
Understandable
That the young players are playing like Mushbooger’s ‘youngsters.’
"For me the game wasn’t grounded in reality. It was about the uniform you put on that turned you into a warrior. It was about the mythology of the battle, the victory, the defeat, the struggle." - Mike Reid, PSU '69
Sigh...
so what’s the recovery time like for Sean Lee’s injury? We’ll need the defense to be even stronger.
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will-Sam Cooke
Those rankings feel about right to me
Across the board, it seems like there isn’t much for ESPN to hype this season. Florida and Texas are undefeated because their schedules have sucked hard so far. Bama at least faced one respectable opponent and handled them, so they look like the real deal. As for the rest of the field…I think it’s a toss up. I don’t believe Virginia Tech, LSU, USC, or Ohio State are as good as their rankings, but whose to say what teams belong up there? The level of parity (or mediocrity) this season seems unprecedented.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
I always thought the #5 ranking was too high
Even though we won the first 3 games, they weren’t real dominant wins. We never seemed to get the running game going, and I was afraid that when we finally played some tougher D (like Iowa and their front 4) we were going to be in trouble. But I didn’t want to listen to that little voice in my head, so I’d drown him with blue kool-aid and say we’re going to win each week.
One consolation is that a loss early in the season is much better than a loss late. And maybe it’s better to get this loss over with to see that we’re not really as good as we thought we were and the team has a lot more work to get done and time to get it done.
"The sea was angry that day, my friends." G. Costanza
The problem is
I don’t think very many players on our team have any heart. They quit early last night, and they might quit early this season.
I agree
But what can be done about it, other than bringing back Michael Robinson, Kerry Collins, or Derrick Williams??
"The sea was angry that day, my friends." G. Costanza
Motivate the current players in a better way?
I thought Oregon was trash after what I saw that first game in the season. Then they got it together and killed the so called number 6 team. Beating OSU by 30 would go a long way to defining the season, the coaches, and the players.
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will-Sam Cooke
"It's a long way to go until the finish line."
This is true. But this is one of the things that sucks about college football. What are we really playing for at this point?
Next year?
Well, we could still run the table, though I think that’s probably asking too much. Sounds simple but I think we should use this year to try and win as many games as we can while also developing for next year.
by Screen Name 20 on Sep 27, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Who cares what we're playing for at this point?
How about you try to enjoy yourself with what’s left of this season instead of being doom and gloom about (possibly) not repeating as Big Ten champs, making it to the MNC or Rose Bowl. It looks like the traditional PSU pattern may continue (and like I said it’s WAY too early to say what will happen with this team this year at the moment). We almost always, aside from the dark years, have around two rebuilding years, and then compete for a championship. Just go to wiki and look for yourself. There are a couple aberrations (68/69, dark years, etc), but for the most part we’ve followed that pattern of making a run for a NC or championship, rebuild, and then compete again throughout the entire Paterno era.
Ummm
Big Ten Championship?
What are you really being a fan for at this point?
"For me the game wasn’t grounded in reality. It was about the uniform you put on that turned you into a warrior. It was about the mythology of the battle, the victory, the defeat, the struggle." - Mike Reid, PSU '69
I agree
At the same time I think what speedomike is getting at is that it’d be nice if we didn’t have the most stupid, ridiculous, worthless system for determining a champion in all of sports. It’d be nice if even when you lose a game, you can still play for everything.
But everyone already knows that, so I digress…
Playing for
a share of the Big 10 title if Iowa slips up, and their offense was shaky enough that they can falter.
I’m not really agreeing about the “no heart” comment. I think turnovers make it look that way. Gotta be more careful with the ball.
I don't believe anybody on that field last night quit, including the coaches.
They got their tails handed to them, but they kept trying. Nothing went their way towards the end and they didn’t have the physical capabilities to make something happen.
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi
I didn't think the D ever quit....
they just got tired after being out there all night. That and the fact that it is disheartening when your O gives the ball back to them 4 times and keeps sending you out there. I really give them a bunch of credit for hanging in there as well as they did while being short staffed. Hats off to all of them… even Hull… kid did as well as he was able and I am proud of all of those kids.
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member
by TheMightyErik on Sep 27, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks
I hate to see people getting down on these kids so soon. It is not going to help morale to have the fans give up on you after one loss
Lucky gun, fake fifth, 8XY bitch
Daryll Clark, The Penn State Football Story Is...
hey, I appreciate effort and heart when I see it...
and our D played about to the very best of their ability from what I saw. Maybe a few missed open field tackles here and there but they only gave up one 12 points and I believe all if not all but one started in our territory due to a turnover. The TD drive they had was after we gave up that INT and they ran it deep into our end and that was late in the game. I hope they get some credit from TB and JoePa because an effort like that normally wins you the football game
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member
by TheMightyErik on Sep 27, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
And on top of that
They were playing without two very important players that night, and despite that STILL gave it their all, kept it close (until the end, but that was more a result of good field position after the INT), and didn’t give up no matter what happened. THAT is heart, and determination.
Some food for thought.
I like Penn State so I really don’t mean this in any sort of flame, but consider the following:
-#4 Ole Miss is the away team on a Thursday night against South Carolina and loses by six. Ole Miss is absolutely lambasted by the media for losing and being too highly touted by everyone before dropping 17 spots in the AP poll.
-#5 Penn State is the home team during the Saturday night game of the week against Iowa. The Nittany Lions lose by 11, only to have the media shrug it off as “oh well, Kirk Ferentz just has Joe Pa’s number.” Penn State drops 10 spots in the AP poll.
Before now, I never believed there was an anti-Ole Miss or an anti-small school bias in the media. I had heard Rebel fans talk about it but it always came off as a paranoid delusion. Now, I believe it.
I hope for the best for Joe Paterno and his teams. He’s one of my absolute favorite people in all of sports. Thankfully for him, his players, and you Nittany Lion’s fans, you’ve got the media on your side.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Sep 28, 2009 7:01 AM EDT reply actions
I just realized that didn't make much sense.
Check the timestamp. Homie here didn’t have his coffee.
Best of luck, Penn State.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Sep 28, 2009 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Or maybe Iowa is considered to be a much better team than South Carolina?
DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?
by ReadingRambler on Sep 28, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
A week ago, they weren't.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Sep 28, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah because last year's bowls mean a ton right now.
Ole Miss beat #7 Texas Tech last January. Give ME the fuckin’ break.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Sep 29, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Look at the resumes. They're not much different.
They both struggled early. South Carolina was one play away from defeating a still-ranked UGA team. A UGA team which would give Iowa more than it could handle.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Sep 29, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know about that
Georgia was super overrated last year. They are just moderately overrated this year.
Given that Georgia carried Michigan State for the better part of three quarters last year, and that Michigan State had some pretty glaring flaws, I think UGa. might have lucked out by missing Iowa in the Bowl Game last year.
Where’s the Beer and the Bar-b-Que?
I disagree.
Georgia suffered something like 20 season-ending injuries last season. No, that is not hyperbole. They were missing several starters on both lines. While I doubt they would have beaten Florida, they could have kept it much closer against Alabama and certainly defeated Georgia Tech had they been healthy.
Of course, I’m speculating, but what is a fan to do?
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Sep 29, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Regardless
Georgia carried a Michigan State team that Penn State (and Ohio State too) just bombed. They still had Matt Stafford and Knowshon Moreno too.
Iowa had some really close early losses and improved over the course of the season. By the end of the year Iowa would have been a tough out for anybody in the country save maybe USC/Florida/Oklahoma. I think they proved that against Penn State and South Carolina. This year I just think Iowa would beat them (Georgia), and it seems many pollsters seem to agree.
Prehaps beating Penn State for a second time, this time in State College legitimized Iowa as a tough team. Sort of like the Big Ten’s version of a team like Ole Miss. South Carolina, ranked or not, Spurior or not, is famous for 80,000 people watching 3-9 teams. Kind of like the SEC’s Michigan State.
Where’s the Beer and the Bar-b-Que?
For a team that's had
four perfect seasons in the modern era with no national championships to show for them, it’s kind of funny to hear the media is on our side.
I don’t think I or any other PSU fan can explain why we’re ranked so high. Honestly, I’d like to hear a good case for why we’re ranked at all. The only thing I can think is that someone’s gotta be ranked and everyone looks like crap right now. No one stands out as dominant.
Still, that doesn’t explain why you fell so much more than we did. Even weirder, though, is that we’re still ranked higher than Iowa in the coaches’ poll. I think the best explanation for all of it is that polls don’t make any sense and are a horrible way to run a sport, but I think we all already knew that…
by PSUMark2008 on Sep 28, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
And I don't think you could've found a PSU fan
that wasn’t severely drunk on Kool Aid that actually liked being as highly ranked as we were. I know I sure as hell wasn’t. I like earning our way to the top like we did last year after starting in the middle of the pack, not having success handed to us when we’re unproven.
It's tough to reconsile
But at the end of the day my guess is this, it’s bias against Ole Miss from inside the SEC that’s hurting you, not some sort of pro-Penn State agenda. Because trust me when I tell you this, we’ve had more than our share of problems with voters over the last forty or so years. Like Utah’s, Auburn’s & Boise State’s combined.
While it’s probably a fair assumption that midwest and north east voters didn’t whack us hard as they could have. But I think it’s probably just as fair an assumption that the folks in SEC territory want to write you guys off as same ’ol Ole Miss, and get back to stroking Florida, Alabama and LSU as quickly as possible.
Where’s the Beer and the Bar-b-Que?
Fair assessment.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Sep 29, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Stunned
I can’t believe PSU is ranked #13 after that game last night. I really felt we would fall into the 20s or unranked based on the fact we’ve beaten no one.
Only falling to 13 does leave out the possibility of getting back into the top 5 again and in the running for a MNC if PSU should run the table. I personally don’t see that happening, but the season isn’t quite over yet. With the way college football has gone so far this season you gotta figure at least 8 of the teams ranked ahead of us are going to lose at some point. Really, I’d say all 12 teams will probably lose at some point. I don’t see anyone going undefeated.
That's a hell of a drop
Going from #5 to 20’s or unranked? We didn’t lose to a D-II school, we lost to a really good, very talented team who should have been ranked in the first place, despite nearly blowing it in the first week.
Just for perspective, Michigan in 2007 was #5 if I remember correctly when they lost to Appy St. THAT is deserving of dropping from the rankings completely.
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