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So Long Pete - Now Don't Come Back


Like most college graduates, I didn't start out at the top in my first job. In order to start paying back those student loans I took a job as an operator in a chemical plant. It was a great experience that really benefits me as an engineer now, but at the time it wasn't very glamorous. I was doing shift work, so there were many nights when I would be standing out in the cold at 3 AM, the wind knifing through my blue jeans and long underwear, as I tried to get a pump primed or I tried to thaw out a valve with an ice ball the size of a microwave on it. I still remember the day I was mopping the floor in the men's room when a driver walked in and started laughing.

"I bet your parents would be so proud if they could see you now. Four years of college, and here you are on the night shift mopping piss off the floor," he bellowed.

"Shows what you know," I shot back. "I was in college for five years.."

But I digress. I bring up this story because I had a boss who got the bright idea one day he was going to give a reward to the operator that could make the most argon. It sounds like a great theory in principle. Reward the guy that performs the best. But it ended up backfiring.

When you're part of a 24 hour shift rotation, you depend on the guy before you to hand you off a stable process. You're counting on him to hand off a plant that is operating as well or better than he found it, and someone else is counting on you to hand off a stable plant to them. Well, when my boss instituted this program, it gave people incentive to screw the next guy. They did this buy pulling off more argon than the plant could really produce. You can do this for a few hours, but do it for too long and eventually you have to pay the piper. Think of it this way: if you're putting one gallon of water per minute into a swimming pool, but someone opened the drain and you're losing two gallons per minute, eventually you are going to run out of water. So many a night I came in to work, and about an hour into my shift everything got unstable because the guy that worked the shift before me cheated and pulled off more argon than the plant could handle. Basically, I was following the Pete Carroll of air separation.

Star-divide

Questions about the USC program started to surface just after the 2005 season. After Reggie Bush went pro there were allegations he and his family were given clothes, cash, cars, and even a home by a marketing firm that was hoping to secure a position as Bush's agent when he entered the NFL. The NCAA promised a thorough investigation, but as of today we're still waiting for the results several years later. Then when USC basketball coach Tim Floyd resigned after getting caught handing cash to a handler of a basketball player, the NCAA announced they were getting tough and investigating the entire USC athletics program.

Then a few weeks ago USC star tailback Joe McKnight was seen by a reporter driving around campus in an SUV that did not belong to him. Further investigation revealed the SUV was registered to his girlfriend, who worked for a marketing firm which had secured an online domain name that could be used to market McKnight should he one day enter the NFL. This is most likely the point where Pete Carroll saw the writing on the wall and decided it's time to get out. Though he had been courted by the NFL after each of the past few years, this year he decided to accept an offer from the Seattle Seahawks to be their next head coach, leaving USC to pick up the pieces of the mess he helped create.

Pete Carroll isn't the first coach to bail on a program he helped ruin. And he probably won't be the last either. It's a shame to me that athletic departments and student athletes have to suffer the consequences of programs out of control for years to come while the head coach resigns and instantly gets a new gig making millions of dollars without paying for the sins they committed. How many kids won't get an education because of the scholarships USC may lose? Granted, kids with the talent to go to USC will find a place to land. They'll go to Cal or Arizona. But then Cal and Arizona will have to pass on some kids they would have normally taken. So those kids will go to San Diego State or UNLV. And then the kids that would have gone to those schools will have to go to a FCS school. And those ten or fifteen kids that are the ones who are going to get screwed in all of this.

That's why I hope the NCAA puts a stop to all of this once and for all. Cheaters have to feel the pain even if they walk out on the situation they created. It's time for the NCAA to grow some balls and get tough on these coaches who cheat their programs into ruin and then skip off to make millions at another institution. That's why Pete Carroll needs to be banned from NCAA athletics for life if it is found that USC committed NCAA violations while he was in charge. Do it Pete Rose style. You know that once he goes to the NFL where he has to compete against franchises with equal facilities, equal money, and equal talent, he will revert to being the failed underachieving coach he is. So when he's fired for going 4-11 two years from now, he will look to come back and coach at somewhere like Arizona or Washington State. And when that happens, the NCAA must put their foot down and say, "No."

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Well said, Mike.

How viable would a system like that be, though?

I just can’t think of who, other than students, would benefit from this system long-term. I mean, obviously, the NCAA SHOULD have the students in mind first and foremost…. but c’mon.

Did justice ever come to the Pete Carroll of Argon?

We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.

by psuwxman on Jan 11, 2010 7:13 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Well this is just another case of JoePa outlasting a peer.

Here is the legacy of Peter Carroll, a decade long string of top recruiting classes and the inability to win the little games. Bottom line. Yes he won a pair of titles, but when he was on top, and expected to win, he could not get the job done.

Choker anyone?

I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.

BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.

by carolinaeasy on Jan 11, 2010 7:47 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

BTW if this sounds bitter it is...

I used to at least give Carroll the benefit of the doubt, but after watching the way USC carried on during the Rose Bowl last year I was totally put off by them. Their behavior was a reflection of their head coach, so grinding on a TV analyst, and dancing on the field after every touchdown shows the true character of Peter Carroll.

I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.

BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.

by carolinaeasy on Jan 11, 2010 7:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Point of order-

Wasn’t it actually 1.5 titles?

"I thought the kid we were using had the potential to be a good quarterback, and I blew that one." - Joseph V. Paterno

by leeharvey418 on Jan 11, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

did they issue half of a ring?

didn’t think so…

I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.

BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.

by carolinaeasy on Jan 11, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Do we have six?

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 11:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Auburn's OOC schedule was...

The Citadel, Louisiana-Monroe, and Louisiana Tech

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Unless you're talking about '03.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 11:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm talking about the year

That LSU won the BCS championship game and USC won the AP Vote anyway.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Then they're both national champions!

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't care either way.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

The 2003 season featured a ‘shared’ MNC.

"I thought the kid we were using had the potential to be a good quarterback, and I blew that one." - Joseph V. Paterno

by leeharvey418 on Jan 11, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Regardless they have a claimed National Title that was bestowed upon them by an outside institution

We can split hairs all we want but the truth is the truth.

I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.

BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.

by carolinaeasy on Jan 11, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fine.

Then I’ll start claiming the ’94 Championship bestowed upon us by the New York Times.

"I thought the kid we were using had the potential to be a good quarterback, and I blew that one." - Joseph V. Paterno

by leeharvey418 on Jan 11, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why not?

We were national champs in 1994. I have no problems saying that.

And officially, by way of law, PSU is the 1-A college football champions in the Commonwealth of PA — the state legislature passed something to that effect.

by Laaaaazzz on Jan 11, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're right

Everybody agrees what the rules are at the begining of the season, the winner of the BCS title game is the champion. USC didn’t win the game, they aren’t the champion.

It’s actualy less legitimate than Penn State’s “NYT Title” because there was no criteria for determing a National Champion in 1994.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said you can split the hairs

I will recognize the AP poll as a legit institution that has bestowed a National Champion many times.

I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.

BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.

by carolinaeasy on Jan 11, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

USC was number 1 in both polls...

At the end of the regular season, yet somehow LSU and Oklahoma wound up playing in one of the worst MNC games I’ve ever seen. USC got screwed in ‘03 and legitimately won the AP title. It’s the last split, but there have been splits before, like Washington and I believe Georgia Tech in 1990. Point being, USC deserves to claim a share of the 2003 championship, at least how I see it.

by jjl207 on Jan 11, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh there is an argument to be made.

It seems like an unfair result. How much more unfair is it than Boise being undefeated and getting nothing? That’s debatable.

My point is that everybody agreed on the rules at the start of the season. Keep in mind USC ain’t exactly Boise here, they are a bit of a power broker in a major confrence. They agreed to a system that will periodically lead peculiar (to say the least) results. But I do think that it is kind of disingenuous to accept the results of a system when they benefit you, and ignore them when they don’t.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 7:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

When did USC ignore the results of the system?

The AP, which has been considered a legitimate National Championship, even if it does often align to the BCS, awarded USC their National Championship, why wouldn’t USC claim that championship? Even in 1997 Michigan split a title with Nebraska, and that was a year in the Coalition or the Alliance or whatever system that is designed to produce a 1 v 2 matchup.

by jjl207 on Jan 11, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And Boise State...

Should have been included in the system. I don’t think it was fair at all that they and TCU got put at the proverbial kid’s table. This is why we need a playoff.

by jjl207 on Jan 11, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Playoff?

Not the point. Boise has a beef because they basicly got a take-it-or-leave-it deal. The WAC is not at the table when discussions of how the BCS Champion is crowned are conducted. The fact that they are included at all is a political sop.

That doesn’t apply to USC. They are the most powerful member of the most powerful confrence. Somehow the rules they signed on for bit them in ass. That’s life.

They can claim whatever National Championships they like. But LSU is the “official” champ of 2003. USC’s version of is not dissimilar from the several disputed national titles that Pitt claims. It’s just more recent.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2010 8:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Everybody agrees what the rules are at the begining of the season, the winner of the BCS title game is the champion.

Nobody “agrees” to this. Well, except the people who vote in the Coaches poll I guess. There’s no NCAA ruling or vote by the schools that suggests that the BCS championship game winner is the “national champion” — it simply determines who gets automatically voted #1 in the Coaches poll.

It’s actualy less legitimate than Penn State’s "NYT Title" because there was no criteria for determing a National Champion in 1994.

It’s no different. The only thing that changed when the BCS came into effect is that it obligated the votes in the Coaches poll to vote the winner of the “BCS championship” as #1 in that poll. The AP poll has never accepted any sort of primacy of the BCS championship game and, in fact, sued the BCS for using their poll as part of the criteria for the BCS rankings.

As far as the AP poll is concerned, they operate the exact same way they always have and the existence of the BCS only serves to create some bowl matchups.

by Laaaaazzz on Jan 11, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, you are sort of wrong

Actually a lot of people “agree” to this. All of the conferences(and thereby their member schools) “agree” to this by signing the contracts for them to be included in the process.

And the AP poll actually did used to be a part of the BCS when it first started then they removed themselves, which is why the Harris poll is now used instead.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."

by Roland86 on Jan 11, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Again, I don’t know what you mean. The teams and conferences agreed to being part of the BCS and participating in those bowls, sure. But the fact that the “BCS championship game” (which is just a bowl game just like the Rose or Orange) winner gets voted #1 in the Coaches poll is up the poll itself. It isn’t an agreement between the schools/conferences and the Coaches poll, but a decision by the poll itself.

I don’t know exactly where this idea came about that there’s a national champion in 1-A football, but there is not. There is 2 major opinion polls that decide who they want #1 based on results up to and including the bowls — much like there has been for decades. Nothing has changed with the formation of the BCS except how some bowl matchups are setup.

by Laaaaazzz on Jan 12, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

winner gets voted #1 in the Coaches poll is up the poll itself. It isn’t an agreement between the schools/conferences and the Coaches poll

Yes, it is an agreement. One that was brought on by the USC fiasco.

I don’t know exactly where this idea came about that there’s a national champion in 1-A football, but there is not

Again, yes, there is. I get it, you don’t like the BCS. You don’t think it’s fair. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t a national champion. The champion may be selected by a method that you deem to be flawed, but there is a champion.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 13, 2010 9:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

BCS

It’s never legitimate.

Or, I guess, it’s as legitimate as one wants it to be. Myself, I see little reason to view the BCS/Coach’s poll #1 ranked team as more of a “national champion” than the AP poll #1 team (if the two are different).

by Laaaaazzz on Jan 11, 2010 9:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

50 guys decide to have a paper football tournament.

We all play ten games. The players with the best ten records are thrown into a hat at the end of the season. Two get drawn at random, and play for the title of our league. Those are the ground rules we set at the begining of the year.

The two people who get pulled out are both 9-1. Player A is 10-0 and beat both those teams. Despite the result, a completely independent organization that has no connection to my tournament names player A champion anyway. Who is the champion?

It’s the winner of the game obviously. Is the system that screwed Player A bizzare, and flawed? Sure, but Player A is a williing participant in it. So he has to live with it.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2010 8:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

how do I get in on this paper football tournament?

I love that game (especially when other, non-paper football objects are used, such as salt shakers and sugar packets at restaurants)

by The JuggerNitt on Jan 12, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The analogy is flawed because there is no “title” of 1-A NCAA football. There’s a bowl game that matches up the #1 and #2 ranked teams in the BCS rankings and the winner of that game gets automatically ranked #1 in an opinion poll (the Coaches). But that’s not a championship even is the mainstream media incorrectly refers to it as such. No team has agreed to “ground rules” for a “national champion” in 1-A football because there is no national champion in 1-A football.

Alabama ended the season as the #1 ranked team in the Coaches poll (and the AP poll as well). They aren’t “national champions” nor did they win an “official NCAA title”. They got a crystal football for being ranked #1 in an opinion poll. Nothing different from how it was pre-BCS.

by Laaaaazzz on Jan 12, 2010 9:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So I'm a Seahawks fan

And I’m not a fan of this hire. At all. And when the Hawks draft Jimmy Claussen in April……oy.

by speedomike on Jan 11, 2010 8:05 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Clausen

will be a solid NFL qb. He’s waaaay better than Brady Quinn. Maybe the most accurate qb in the NCAA last year, and he’s tough as nails. You have to be playing behind that line.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jan 11, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Zing!

"I thought the kid we were using had the potential to be a good quarterback, and I blew that one." - Joseph V. Paterno

by leeharvey418 on Jan 11, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If you're measuring a solid NFL QB as one that is better than Brady Quinn, then I'm a solid NFL QB.

I’m still not sold on Clausen. Sure he did have a great year, but he still acts like a manboy (which he technically is) and he really didn’t torch any big name opponents, did he? I could be wrong, but something about him doesn’t sit right with me. Stay out of Pittsburgh, Clausen! Stay out of Long Beach!

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There is only one person in Pittsburgh

who is permitted to have hair like Jimmy Clausen’s and that’s Jeff Reed. It’s actually the law.

I’m not sure that Brady Quinn isn’t going to pull it together next season. That looked like a different team toward the end of the seson. I think I’d trade Troy Polamlu straight up for Joshua Cribbs if they would do it. I’d at least consider it for a real long time.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 10:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Polamalu? Who's that?

Didn’t he die?

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No, he's still alive.

He’s a safety on the Pittsburgh Steelers, a professional football team in Pittsburgh.

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, the capital of West Virginia. I follow now.

/Philly’d

by MainLion on Jan 11, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs



"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

SIx Lombardi Trophys

/Pittsburgh’d

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and by the way:

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Only until Dallas gets their sixth this year.

"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me

by BStylin Hawkye on Jan 11, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, you just keep telling yourselves that.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes. The Cowboys will have to steal one of ours if they want one.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They would steal one from the Eagles.

But the Eagles don’t have one.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Huge Phillies fan. Eagles—meh. I only have one spot in my life for a coaching staff that makes questionable decisions, a secondary that makes a living off of playing 10 yards off, and a QB who goes liquid magma hot to icy stunnaz cold.

Pirates much?

by MainLion on Jan 11, 2010 8:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't care at all about baseball. That's always the trashtalk Philly fans go to for some reason.

But yes, as a historical enthusiast, I am quite interested in pirates. Calico Jack was the 18th century version of Josh Hull – ladies hate the stache, Anne Bonny and Mary Read love the stache.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well to be fair

Pittsburgh fans talk about football and hockey, but its wrong for Philly fans to bring up baseball? I don’t get that. I also don’t get the animosity between the two fanbases. Its so retarded it hurts my brain. I of course have to hear it all the god damned time being in State College. Quite frankly both fanbases are so obnoxious its unbearable. That’s why I am glad that I freelance with my fanship. No one area can tie me down.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."

by Roland86 on Jan 11, 2010 10:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In my opinion, there’s bound to be animosity when there’s two cities in the same state with teams that often play each other. Especially in a sports-crazed state like PA.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 12, 2010 12:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It really just pisses me off.

Maybe I’d understand it more if I had more of a geographical connection to any one place in particular.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."

by Roland86 on Jan 12, 2010 1:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't stand...

either fanbase and I refuse to be tied to a team because of geographical happenstance.

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 12, 2010 9:03 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No...

NEPA and I live outside Philly.

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 12, 2010 9:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he's a Red Wings fan.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 12, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree with Roland

I grew up outside Philly, so I was a Phillies/Eagles/Sixers/Flyers fan, but as I grew older really only cared about the Phillies. Went to PSU and junior year had 4 Pittsburgh roommates who were diehard yellow and black sports fans, but God forbid I ever talked about the Phillies. I still don’t understand it. When the Steelers were in the SB last year, I rooted for them because they were from PA, but was questioned by Eagles fans why I would root for a Pittsburgh team. I don’t think I’ll ever get it. My brain hurts too.

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Jan 12, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

People from Philly...

often see Pittsburgh as a small town. Diehard Philly people just think that they are better than everybody else. Frankly, I’ve lived around Philly for 12 years and I still don’t get it.

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 12, 2010 10:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Eh

Its not like Pittsburghers aren’t arrogant too. I’ve met plenty of assholes from either side of the state. And there are plenty of em right here in the middle too.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."

by Roland86 on Jan 12, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I just can't understand how anyone can argue about baseball.

To me, that sport almost as boring as soccer and Mark Dantonio.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 12, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I mean you are entitled to your opinion

Its just that it is wrong.

But srsly, why can’t all of PA just be happy that we have won a nice pile of trophies here in the last few years.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."

by Roland86 on Jan 12, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I follow and support all the Philly teams

I’ve always found the two city rivalry to be fairly good natured, unless it’s hockey.

The crack about baseball is about this; you tease an Eagles fan about not winning the Super Bowl, and he brings up the Phillies. But you and I both know, that he’d trade that World Series Trophy and his left nut for a Super Bowl in about a second.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree Jesse

Funny, there were no Phillies fans 5 years ago. Now they are like roaches.

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 12, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Funny...

There were no Pens fans, either. And when the Pens go back into oblivion and are forced to consider moving the team or filing bankruptcy AGAIN, I’m sure there won’t be any then, either.

394–129–3

by mushdamma on Jan 12, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How old is Crosby? 18?

Keep waiting for oblivion.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 12, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Lets not go down any of these roads

This is not the proper forum for this kind of thing. It just so mind numbingly retarded to me.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."

by Roland86 on Jan 12, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

He started it!

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 12, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Other than your point is totally wrong

It’s a decent point. The Pen’s fan base isn’t as big as the Steelers, but this has been been a pretty big hockey town for a pretty long time.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Polamalu trade? Now, maybe cause he's been injury prone. 5 years ago? No way.

And Reed cut those beautiful locks. They kept getting in the way when he was knocking air dryers off of Greensburg bathroom walls and getting into scuffles on the North Shore.

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Cribbs is not that special

He’s getting a lot of attention because he’s the only athlete that offense has. He’s the return man du jour. Would you trade 2009 Devin Hester for Polamalu? Cause Cribbs is going to have a drop off in 2010.

by jigalion on Jan 11, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've only ever seen the guy play against the Steelers

And every time I’ve seen him, he’s been the best player on the field. This goes back a year to two too, not just this season.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

he’s good.

I know about your diabolical plan.

by Kevin HD on Jan 11, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

That he’s a very talented player. On a good team on he probably swings a close game or two in your favor just on big plays. I don’t think the trade value matches up between one the best safeties of the decade; and a hybrid burner.

by jigalion on Jan 11, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Clausen will make a better NFL QB than Bradford, McCoy, or Tebow, and might never be an All-Pro, but he’ll be, at the least, very competent. He doesn’t make terrible mistakes, already has a good idea on how to make progressions and reads, and throws a beautiful ball.

NittanyWhiteOut.com. Arguably the second best Penn State blog I know of.

by PSUdevon on Jan 11, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and if that doesn't pan out

he always has a job waiting at a zoo or safari

by The JuggerNitt on Jan 11, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Do the Emu's get paid at the zoo?

Unless you want to count bird seed, then by all means, zoos will be jumping at the chance to put him on exhibit, and he’ll take the bait.z

by dawsonPSU10 on Jan 11, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ditto Carolina

and hey maybe not choker BUT CHEATER…these guys are praised UNTIL they leave a program in shambles…The NCAA is the problem…thank Goodness for JoePa; he’s not perfect, but he’s certainly in a league by himself…this started years ago when he would not tolerate boosters running a FB program.

by DerryPharmer on Jan 11, 2010 8:15 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

A couple points of disagreement (although I agree with most of this):

(1) Do you REALLY think the kids going to the FCS are being hurt? I ask for a couple reasons. First, and I’m not sure, but are the other programs, like Zona (I hesitate to include Cal cuz… they’re Berkeley), clean? DO their kids actually go to class? I doubt it. I expect some of the UNLV level kids skip out on class, as well. But I really think FCS players DO – they have to be aware that they probably aren’t going to the NFL, so they have to make something of themselves elsewhere. Just my thought here.

(2) Is it really the NCAA that should be blamed, or is it ESPN? They BLOW dirtbag coaches like Pete Carroll and Urban Meyer until virtually every recruit with NFL aspirations thinks, “Hey, if I go to (USC/UF), I will DEFINITELY make the NFL. So, why should I go to class and be made accountable for my actions.”

Otherwise, I agree with making coaches accountable, but it would never happen, we all know its about money, not students.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Jan 11, 2010 8:36 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I went to an FCS school...

they don’t go to class much either. It’s college, even among the non-athlete population, class attendance isn’t all that regular.

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 11, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was going to make similar points.

Hell, some of the players at PSU aren’t ever going to be role models (Shanky McStaberson?), but I think the big picture is that 1) our graduation rate is phenomenal, 2) Joe doesn’t play by the dirty rules that the Carroll/Meyer’s of the world play by, and 3) we are not normal, we are legends.

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We don't know anything yet.

Hell, as of 10:45 he is still USC’s coach. My impression and/or guess is that whatever Pete Carrol’s sins are, they are sins of omission.

It always seemed to me that he went out of his way to not know what was going on. Even going to far as actively create a circus atmosphere around the squad, open locker rooms and the like where this kind of crap is bound to happen.

The only think Paterno wanted for the new football building was a moat to keep people out, they gave him a shower instead. But in the final analysis, maybe we should price a moat?

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, he's still USC's coach.

Just like the Seahawks are seriously considering the African American guy (forget his name now) they interviewed to satisfy the Rooney Rule.

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This guy:

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He would probably do better than Carroll.

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

^this...

as respects sins of omission.

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 11, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

damn it ... this response is too long ... whatever, here it is:

I generally agree with these guys.

Like Mike’s story illustrates, the plant was running fine until the incentive structure changed. Pete Carroll (and 90% of other school head coaches) decided to use the new incentive structure and there’s plenty of blame to go around: ESPN for its fair-weather hypemachine, inattentive ADs and academic institutions for allowing it to happen so the school pulls in more $$, the NFL for rewarding the pacman jones’, the kids themselves for taking the deal, hell, even the NCAA for creating a sh*t-ton of arbitrary rules and then picking and choosing when to enforce their own rules so that they benefit the most.

It’s clear why the kids get screwed … they’re the last ones considered by all those establishments.

The only reason PSU (and the other 10%) has been able to keep out of hot water is that Joe said F this system, and created his own set of incentives. As a result we’re don’t get much love from ESPN, the Terrell Pryors go to OSU and other schools (though they’ve cleaned up recently), our AD has to restructure the fan seating (among other cash-grabs) to make ends meet, our coaches are paid meager wages, and we bitch and complain about our own school until some outside event reminds us that hey, it’s not that bad.

Even after all that, we still get players that like to play stabby stabby rape rape.

The kids that go to FCS will be fine, they’ll get more playing time if anything. The ones that really get screwed are the clean freshman/sophomore/juniors, like this years USC basketball team. Not only will all of their effort go unrewarded (no post season play), they wont get additional help next year (if the NCAA reduces scholarships) in addition to all the promises that were broken during their recruitment.

AND if they go to the NCAA saying “Well F, mr. NCAA, I played by your rules … I didn’t ask for all this … let me go to Cleany U,” the NCAA will be like “sorry timmy, your options are taking these lumps, or sitting out a year … because we’re trying to punish all those people that just left.”

by g1184 on Jan 11, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that they should change the transfer rules for kids escaping a sanctioned team

so that they don’t lose the year. This would not only help save some of these kids, but it would be even more punishment to the institutions that committed the infractions.

by The JuggerNitt on Jan 11, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

1] What is the need for a draconian punishment here? The kid borrowed an SUV. Let’s keep this in propective slightly. There are millions of dollars on the line, and sancations would affect more than just USC.

2] For the sake of argument, assume a draconian sanction is in Order, what should it be? Death by stoning? In it’s absolute enforcement heyday, the NCAA had four sanctions available to it. 1] No TV, 2] No bowls, 3] Forfieture of games, 4] loss of scholarships.

Options one and two are effectively out. During the 1980’s and before, no TV was plausible because there was only one or two games on TV per week. There was no SEC or Big Ten TV contract. Today, if you take USC games off the TV schedule, you’ve breached your contract and/or made it substantially less valuable. So that hurts everybody in the Pac Ten, not just USC. Bowls are pretty much the same thing.

Foreiture of games, and scholarship losses…Yawn. The scholarship losses hurt, and making USC foreit their 2005 season (assuming Bush was ineligible) would hurt their pride. But they’d recover pretty quickly.

3] College athletes will get paid the instant somebody comes up with a feasible plan that won’t sink 30-50 percent of non-revenue sports in the country. So never.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I kinda like the idea of a sancation

Like I’ve been ordered to go on vacation. ‘I sanction you to 14 days on Bora Bora, to begin immediately!’

"We just forgot our pants. Nothing against the team or anything like that." -- take a guess

by jtothep on Jan 11, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Seems like

recruiting violations kill every great CFB dynasty. Which stands to reason I guess. With over 100 colleges to choose from, and with at least several traditionally at or near the top, it just doesn’t make sense that any one school would be top 10 for 10 years in a row.

by jimbo2psu on Jan 11, 2010 8:57 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

former

i LOVE this game.

We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.

by psuwxman on Jan 11, 2010 9:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

USC

We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.

by psuwxman on Jan 11, 2010 9:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If I were a Seahawks Fan

I would be really down about this.

The recent track record for college coaches moving to the NFL is dismal.

And without cheating, how is this guy going to win? Just ask Bill Bellichek (nice game yesterday, Patsies).

by CDRS on Jan 11, 2010 9:38 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Of course...

It’s not like he’s never coached in the league before, he actually has a winning record. I once had a conversation with a Patroits fan about Pete Carrol, and he told me that he couldn’t quite put his finger on why they fired him. I opined, “he seems kind of California for New England, no”, and he didn’t disagree. Seattle seems like a better fit for Carrol than New England or New York did, just from a personality prospective.

I don’t think it’s destined to fail, Seattle is a strong organization, in a weak division. Carrol’s still guy an eye for talent when it comes to both coaches and players.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 9:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agree

While everything Mike wrote in his post is true, and I agree that Carroll saw the writing on the wall and left without facing the consequences of his actions, the Seahawks are arguably the best fit of any franchise for him.

There’s been discussion about Carroll going to the nfl for years; the Seahawks made a good hire, in my opinion. Even if Carroll is a weasel.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jan 11, 2010 10:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt Carroll's ability to scheme against NFL coaches

I think his success will rest on his ability to hire capable assistants.

by jimbo2psu on Jan 11, 2010 10:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He'll...

be ok in the NFL. He was ok the last time around. As Tony Dungy (as an aside – I find him vastly overrated) said: It’s a lot easier to coach poor 19 year olds than it is rich 25 year olds.

For reasons I can’t explain, I liked Carroll better than guys like Urban or Saban. He seems to at least acknowledge a world outside of college football.

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 11, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He'll be taking some of his USC coaches with him, which will help.

But when he has to level the playing field and say goodbye to “recruiting” he won’t be as good. Paul Allen wants Mike Holmgren. Pete Carroll is Jim Zorn. This will be epic fail.

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Spotted in the LA Times classifieds:

Wanted: Head coach to take over a dominant Pac-10 program with serious NCAA infractions on the horizon. Expect scholarship reduction and/or postseason bans. Candidate will be expected to produce back-to-back championship seasons due to irrational expectations. Coaches with experience as defensive coordinators need not apply. All candidates will be expected at LAX: look for man in crimson and gold uniform with a “4” on it holding a sign—he will drive you to the interview location.

by Cairo on Jan 11, 2010 9:57 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Perks of the job

Sleeping with coeds, driving used Land Rovers free of charge, friends will think you’re “uber cool”

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe in the 90's.

And it was OK, she baked the hell out of a lasagna.

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

If this is a joke about the same woman who makes mean cookies, I’m going to lead the torch and pitchfork mob to your driveway.

by MainLion on Jan 11, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Mine was about SuePa, as thats what I thought jesse. was referring to.

Don’t know what yours is about.

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Besides...

He wooed her with a book report, and then made an honest woman out of her.

If that ain’t chivalry I don’t know what is.

"I thought the kid we were using had the potential to be a good quarterback, and I blew that one." - Joseph V. Paterno

by leeharvey418 on Jan 11, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly

I was trying to bait somebody into an angry response about how Joe Paterno would never stand for such a thing so I could make them look like an idiot.

But thanks for screwing up my diabolical plan.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if

USC will end up vacating the national title from 2005. If they do, does Penn State become the new #2?

by jimbo2psu on Jan 11, 2010 10:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Or in the alternative

Can we get a crack at Texas in the Rose Bowl?

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No

but we can print up “any place, any time” t-shirts again.

by Cairo on Jan 11, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Give Poz another year of eligibility.

by MainLion on Jan 11, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Since the NCAA doesn’t award any championships in 1-A football, there’s nothing to vacate. I guess the Coaches poll and AP poll could take away their #1 rankings (I don’t know if they’ve ever done such things before) but that would be it. The NCAA can make them vacate their wins, so it would be odd to see an 0-12 team be ranked #1 in the final polls.

by Laaaaazzz on Jan 11, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't like Pete Carroll or USC

but playing Devil’s advocate for a second… There really should be some way of punishing the players involved in the Reggie Bush or McKnight type incidents. What if the NFL took a position that they would not take players or institute some sort of sanctions upon players involved in these sort of issues (they may have attempted this with that supplemental draft BS back in the ’80’s). Joe McKnight can take an SUV from a company without USC’s knowledge. When the situation comes to light, basically everyone on the planet is punished except McKnight. Personally, I feel that Carroll’s NFL minor league mentality certainly fosters this type of behavior. However, what if Bush and McKnight were acting on their own?

by cpm126 on Jan 11, 2010 11:00 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Why...

would the NFL care?

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 11, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

To be more precise, why would Al Davis care?

I’m willing to bet that some organizations go out of their way to NOT draft some of these kids.

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

For the same reason they care when a player

is arrested. Sure, you can take the mentality that as long as the guy isn’t in prison, he’s good to go. However, the league is certainly trying to go a different route.

by cpm126 on Jan 11, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So there is already a system..

in place to deal with this. Teams asses the risk of each player and decide if and where to draft them based on their risk assesment. Didn’t seem to hurt Bush. Accepting a car or money from someone isn’t illegal per se, just violates the NCAA’s stupid rules.

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 11, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But I am saying a punishment along the lines of a league

 rules violation. There are a ton of rules set by the NFL not related to the legal system.

by cpm126 on Jan 11, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Again, why would the NFL...

do that? The NFL is very image sensitive, but do you think the average NFL fans cares if someone bought Reggie Bush a house or McKnight an SUV? I could see the league looking at an individual if they were a Pacman Jones type. Also, the player’s union would push back hard on stuff like that.

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 11, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Why should the NFL care about the NCAA’s rules? They just want to have a free minor league system to develop players. Beyond that if the NCAA wants to sanction programs or enforce rules about playing players, they can go ahead on their own — as long as NFL ready players are being produced, the NFL is happy.

Reggie Bush is a good NFL player helped by his time developing at USC. Why would the NFL care about why he went there? It makes no difference for their purposes.

by Laaaaazzz on Jan 11, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Pete Carroll goes out with class: "The Pete Carroll era in Los Angeles appeared to have ended late Sunday as the Los Angeles Times reported that Southern California players were informed of his departure for the Seattle Seahawks by a text message from an assistant coach." How Petrino of him.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/usc-players-are-said-to-learn-of-carrolls-departure/

I know about your diabolical plan.

by Kevin HD on Jan 11, 2010 11:16 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'm surprised he went that far.

As hip as Pete is supposed to be, I would have thought he would have just tweeted it.

"I thought the kid we were using had the potential to be a good quarterback, and I blew that one." - Joseph V. Paterno

by leeharvey418 on Jan 11, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Prater

Already saw he’s talking to Kiffin. I’m curious to see how many recruits from this class and the past 3 classes opt to leave regardless of who the coach is.

by kbrownpsu on Jan 11, 2010 11:41 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I hope Kiffin goes to USC

And then I hope Tennessee hires Jackie Sherill. We need more villians in this sport.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It almost makes you wish...

that Michigan was really good the last two years so that USC could pay him dump-truck full of money to get him to leave. Almost.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but then Michigan would hire someone like Jim Harbaugh.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's fine. Put all the respected coaches in the B10, and let us cast aspersions from atop our mountain.

Well, all of us except the Illini fans. And Sparty.

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And jNWU.

"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me

by BStylin Hawkye on Jan 11, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, this is a blackhole waiting to happen.

You hate to see it happen to some of the kids that came in with the levelheadedness and talent to actually play at USC, but then I can’t feel bad when this epic suckitude happens to a place like USC.

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm new to this concept of a level headed USC recruit

Do they actually exist or are they like unicorns? (at least until they get buried on the depth chart by other kids promised the same BS when they were being recruited, then they become human beings and mature enough to realize they just got fed a bunch of sh*t, and now their dreams are in jeopardy)

by dawsonPSU10 on Jan 11, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree wholeheartedly with the premise

but I feel as though I need to point out that it would be a hard policy to implement.

I should also remind others on here that our very own Galen Hall violated the rules of the NCAA back in the day when he was with Florida. Should Galen Hall never coach at an NCAA school again? That’s where this gets tough. Where does the line get drawn?

by LionsandBear on Jan 11, 2010 12:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Not so fast, my friend.

Hall was OC under some corrupt Florida coach (Charlie Pell?) in the mid-80s. He got the HC job after the other guy got canned for NCAA violations. Hall left after a couple of mediocre (by UF fan standars) seasons (thanks in part to probation). The NCAA investigated Florida again in the late 80s, and he was “forced out”. It seems likely to me that Florida had an established culture of cheating similar to SMU and that Hall had little to do with it.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and...

I forgot to mention that Hall wasn’t at Florida when Pell’s violations originally took place.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's easy to figure out who's cheating in the SEC

Look at the standings, the teams on top are probably cheating.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Burn. Now you're getting into blatant stereotypes, they likes of which we in the B10 are trying to shed.

Whatever, everyone does.

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Stereotypes are often based on facts.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 11, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

47.3% of statistics are made up on the spot.

INTERNET’d

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by PSUJunny05 on Jan 11, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Barely true

"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

by IcersGuy on Jan 11, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's terrible

And not entirely correct. The key is that you look at the SEC standings…. and every team listed is cheating.

by Laaaaazzz on Jan 11, 2010 9:43 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Not exactly

Pell broke NCAA rules, yes. But, he was the first coach ever to get UF football put on probation. It wasn’t exactly a “culture of cheating” and it certainly was nothing like SMU.

Hall himself also violated NCAA rules while head coach, though it wasn’t exactly cheating in the way most people think about it. Penn State gave Hall a GA job right after, and the PSU AD at the time said, “They’re not the type of infractions were used to hearing about. They were really both infractions of compassion.” Hall paid raises to two assistant coaches out of his own pocket and helped a player with child support payments.

Hall’s actions were against NCAA rules, but they’re not exactly SMU-style lawlessness. The ‘80s were it for Florida football and probation. The program never got into NCAA trouble before, and it hasn’t gotten into any since.

Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog

by Year2 on Jan 12, 2010 10:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It merrits a bit of notice

That Galen Hall came back to Penn State in 2001 (I think), but it was early in the decade. He left Florida in like 1988. He had a put a few years between himself and the infractions, whatever they were.

They did bring Galen to State College for a very brief stint after he was fired, it didn’t take him a long time to find other employment.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2010 10:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Right

Just after he left Florida in ‘89, PSU hired him as an unpaid grad assistant. It’s in the article I linked to.

Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog

by Year2 on Jan 12, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Another Seahawk's fan perspective

The Hawks needs to turn over about 90% of their roster before they will be competitive again. It’s an acknowledged matter of several years, at least two, before anyone expects the team to make the playoffs. So Carrol was hired to rebuild, and I think that matters because he did in fact rebuild USC. Does the skill set overlap . . . can Carrol rebuild a pro team like he did a college program? That’s a tough question, but the worst that can happen is Carrol gets run out of town on a rail a few years down the road – not the worst of outcomes since the team isn’t going to win no matter who’s at the helm.

There’s more to this story that no one outside of Seattle would really give a crap about. There’s interplay between resigned GM Ruskell, new Browns czar Mike Holmgren, Jim Mora, and Steve Sarkesian . . . there’s a lot of soap opera drama behind this decision. If things had gone according to everyone’s respective plans, Holmgren would be football czar here, Sark would be coaching USC, and Mora would be coaching UW.

BTW if all the best coaches are cheating to win, maybe we need to reevaluate the rules instead of just focusing on the fact that they cheated. We can start with paying the players a living wage.

Some people are born mediocre, some achieve mediocrity, and some people have mediocrity thrust upon them. - Joseph Heller

by NLseattle on Jan 11, 2010 1:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Players get a "living wage", none of them have to work jobs and all of them have houses and food.

And the idea that Carroll cheated b/c his players were all starving isn’t really how this thing played out.

The problem with paying players cash on top of the housing, food and travel stipends is that it will destroy the system that pays them. If every football program (and really ever basketball program, since you can’t really pay one and not the other) paid their players, say, a living wage of $30k, well that’s 100 players x $30k or $3 million per year.

There are 120 d1a football programs, maybe 25 of them would be in operation after 2 or 3 years of paying that out. So basically you kill revenue sports.

I know about your diabolical plan.

by Kevin HD on Jan 11, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Will be interesting to see how this plays out...

on ESPN radio the other afternoon they had a former Nebraska QB on that is spearheading a class action lawsuit against the NCAA for illegally licensing the names and likenesses of NCAA football players to Electronic Arts.

http://kotaku.com/5242988/college-football-players-joining-ea-madden-lawsuit-mob

Could open the door to college athletes receiving some sort of payment beyond scholarship and fees.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jan 11, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

no, if anything it will just prohibit EA from making an NCAA football game.

at least one that contains players “names and likenesses”. Don’t see how they’d prevent user generated rosters that have all those attributes that get distributed freely and are easily downloadable.

by The JuggerNitt on Jan 11, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree with the living wage Kevin, these kids are basically slave labor for their institutions

Sure PSU uses the money to fund other sports, and this is great and all, but for every PSU there are 12 SEC schools that are paying 5-9 million a year for coaches. This is all on the backs, knees, and shoulders of 18-23 year olds who are getting nothing other than a degree. And in some cases that degree isn’t worth the paper it is printed upon.

I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.

BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.

by carolinaeasy on Jan 11, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

'slave' is a strong word IMO

They live and eat better than at least half their fellow students. And the word also insinuates some type of force, but how exactly are the players forced to play?

Listen, I’m no apologist for these big schools and the money grabbing that takes place, but players are getting (1) a free education, it’s not my fault if they don’t take it seriously (2) free room and board, which is basically all people making $20-$25k can afford (3) access to the WAY better coaching and facilities than they would get either in canada, area or whatever would replace college football, and (4) exposure, sparking big sponsorship deals for the NFL bound as rookies and helping land either assistant coaching jobs or car dealerships after graduation that they would no otherwise have access to after being cut from the Paris Bears.

I’m just saying let’s no underestimate the perks. I respect your take, but I just see it differently. There are flaws in my argument (do players have time for school? all this stuff is still less than they are generating, what about the players cut from Saban’s team that leave with nothing?), but I feel like a lot of that stuff could be fixed with minor tweaks to CFB regulation that demand students be forced to act more like students rather than full fledged payment.

And I still stand by my point about payment: paying players destroys college football.

I know about your diabolical plan.

by Kevin HD on Jan 11, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

To pile on to your point

there is this opinion floating around that “they” are making all this money and taking advantage of these kids. However, at the end of the day, no one can really identify who “they” is and how the many is being utilized in an unethical fashion.

Yes, there are programs where coaches make a lot of money. However, they are running extremely high-profile operations with probably a three year average life span. Shouldn’t these coaches be making a fair amount of money?

by cpm126 on Jan 11, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Paying players...

I don’t see that it necessarily has to destroy college football, but this is isn’t a crack at CarolinaEasy specifically, nobody has ever put forth a plan that wouldn’t. At the end of the conversation, even if pay for play only applies to school with FBS football programs, it can’t be implemented legally or even fairly.

You have to pay every scholarship athlete or you’ll get rolled in a Title IX lawsuit. If you agree to pay everybody it becomes too expensive for many schools to afford, which disproportionally affects smaller schools, and smaller sports. Where does the money come from? TV? How does the fact that the SEC has a more lucrative TV deal than the Mountain West Conference get addressed?

I’ve argued this before, I don’t think anybody is morally opposed to giving scholarship athletes a bit of walking around money (living wage is like $10 an hour, it’s not going to happen, your looking at $150 per month). The second somebody comes up with a plan to make this work, I’ll be behind it 100%.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So in all this mess

Is there any indication, ANYTHING, that says the NCAA is going to actually do something? Do we really expect the NCAA to take any action? Call my a cynic, I don’t believe there’s going to be anything beyond the “double secret probation” for USC. I don’t think they have the stones to do anything.

"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.

by millzners on Jan 11, 2010 2:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and rumor around LA

is that Carroll was living with a co-ed. Maybe more than one throughout his tenure.

I think it’s also interesting that this is around the time that TMZ Sports is starting up. And where are they headquartered? LA

by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 11, 2010 4:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I’m going to love TMZ sports. All hell is going to break loose and its schadenfreude will be awesome.

"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09

twitter: @princessblueezy

by kmblue on Jan 11, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a Seahawks fan, and certainly no fan of the Pete Carroll hire

But a little perspective is in order before letting your righteous indignation fly.

People would do well to remember what sad shape the USC football program was in before Carroll showed up. People looked at USC then the way they look at Notre Dame now — outsized expectations for a program that was no longer realistic about its place in the college football landscape. FOUR GUYS turned that job down before they finally gave it to Carroll.

USC is now once again one of the premier jobs in college football, coming probation or not. Ask Thad Matta if he regrets taking over OSU with NCAA sanctions hanging over the program. USC will get a good coach, and the program will continue to be successful, and that’s because of what Carroll built.

by Jeff Nusser on Jan 12, 2010 9:33 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

It's ok to turn a program around if you use means that lead to NCAA issues?

I don’t think you’re going to find too many people who respect that kind of argument here.

"We've gotta execute! We've gotta have fun out there!" - Ed DeChellis

by ReadingRambler on Jan 12, 2010 10:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's see what the actual infractions are first.

My guess is that Pete Carroll’s primary failure was allowing to much access to his players, in order to create the ‘fun’ atmosphere that was no small part of the recruiting jugernaught he created. They were/are L.A’s pro team, that’s a lot of crap to keep under control, it will be interesting to see to what extent he even tried.

It seems pretty clear that USC has some booster problems as well.

Does it rise to the “lack of institutional control” NCAA death knell? We’ll see, I hope.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying Carroll helped plan this crud.

But it seems to me he turned on hell of a blind eye. Plus he let his kids act like dickwads on the field, so I can only imagine that he didn’t really care what they did off the field.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."

by Roland86 on Jan 12, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that about sums it up.

But if that’s all he did, other schools have allowed much worse, and maintain pretty good reputations to this day. I’m looking at Dr. Tom, Lawrence Phillips and the University of Nebraska.

Nobody got killed, raped or beaten up as near as I can tell. It doesn’t appear that there was any type of academic fraud. It’s hard for me to get riled up over Joe McKnight and a borrowed SUV. It’s certainly against the rules, and they should be punished for it, but it’s not kidnapping the Lindburgh Baby either.

Losing their coach over this is actually quite a kick in the balls if your USC.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I believe the thing frustrating people the most isn’t actually Carroll. He’s just a symptom of the problem, the problem being the NCAA’s inconsistent and lackadaisical approach to violations.

If this were another school, they’d have given USC their proverbial slap on the wrist, USC would have apologized and accepted it, and we’d all have moved on. But its USC, and for whatever reason the NCAA has failed to do anything about Bush and since then the other violations are just adding insult to injury.

"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.

by millzners on Jan 12, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The NCAA doesn't have unlimted power

Or even a tremendous amount of power. They have as much authority over Reggie Bush as they do over you and I. None. Reggie is stonewalling them pretty well right now, and until they get to the bottom of it there isn’t much they can do with USC.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I still don’t understand why that leaves USC off the hook, other than that they can’t prove anything without Bush’s input… But it’s not like he’s going to willingly sell anyone out anyway.

I guess I don’t understand why the NCAA’s abillity to hand out a ruling is tethered to Bush if Bush is no longer tethered to them. There’s got to be some ability by the NCAA to lay some burden of proof on the university given the charges and facts at hand even if that’s now how it works in a real courtroom.

"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.

by millzners on Jan 12, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Guilty until proven innocent?

They have to prove they didn’t know something? How the hell do you do that?

USC isn’t going to walk on the Reggie Bush thing. It’s going to come our sooner or later. Then USC will be dealt with accordingly. Bear in mind that the NCAA comes down especially hard on people who obstruct investigations, and USC strikes me as coming dangerously close to falling into that category.

SMU cat and moused the NCAA for a long time, then got crushed. I don’t think USC is that bad, but lack of institutional control coupled with obstructing an investigation will lead to some pretty strict penalties. Assmuning that’s what has occured. Which is all just an assumption.

USC isn’t off the hook. The NCAA has a long memory, and there is no statute of limitations in play here.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My guess is that Pete Carroll’s primary failure was allowing to much access to his players, in order to create the ‘fun’ atmosphere that was no small part of the recruiting jugernaught he created.

Sure, Carroll’s primary failure was to ignore NCAA rules which helped to create an unfair recruiting advantage over teams that followed NCAA rules. I guess that’s arguably not as bad as paying players out of your own pocket, but it’s pretty silly to not think that that’s wrong. And it’s silly to think that Carroll’s being loose with the NCAA rules didn’t give him a big advantage that was a part of building the juggernaught he had.

by Laaaaazzz on Jan 12, 2010 9:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

Having “open practices” does not violate any NCAA rule I’m aware of. Nobody can seem to point to any NCAA rule that Carroll directly violated, or was even loose with.

He clearly didn’t regulate who these kids were having contact with. But you’d have to admit that it’s probably a fair amount easier to keep kids isolated from agents in State College, than it is in Los Angeles.

Seriously, you’ve got college kids, some of them poor living amongst movie stars, agents, and other assorted hangers on. Both of the instances of “cheating” that we are concerned about had to do directly with the player, not USC. The guy that bought Reggie Bush’s parents a house didn’t give two shits about USC. He wanted 15% of Reggie’s first NFL contract.

You seem to be very concerned about fairness when it comes to the BCS Championship. Explain to me how it’s fair that USC gets punished for something that USC didn’t have anything to do with, that you can’t even conclusively say they knew about? Where is the justice in that?

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 13, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course it's not OK

But to call this the “ruin” of USC is a bit over the top, don’t you think?

by Jeff Nusser on Jan 12, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

embarassment or humilation may be a better words.

This is a Penn State blog. You’ll find that for better or worse we take a fair amount of pride in playing by the rules as best we can. You’ll also find that most us would rather lose than compromise our pride.

I’ll take an honest 3-9 over a dishonest 12-0. And giving back any win in our history for cheating would be just about the most distasteful thing we’ve had to endure.

I don’t know what the pulse of the USC fanbase is with regard to this. Maybe they figure, “Hey, we’re back on top. So what if we had to cut a few corners to get there”. We can really only look at it through the prism of how we do things.

If this happened to us would I say our program was ruined? I might.

Just keep swimin'...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's a fair point

Context is everything, I suppose.

by Jeff Nusser on Jan 12, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Cowherd: The ultimate Carroll apologist

I broke one of my rules and put Cowherd on during my lunch break, and yet again he’s pulling the same old same old.

1. Carroll is leaving b/c he’s frustrated with the BCS, that’s the only reason; he’s just a competitive guy who couldn’t understand why he can’t play for a NC just b/c he loses to a doormat every season. He is not leaving because of sanctions. Cowherd ‘just doesn’t think so’ (say it in a whiney high-pitched tone for effect)

2. Seattle is a great city, and this alone means Carroll will have no problem building a great team there. (Cowherd believes the zip code of a football program dictates their success). They have a ton of problems with their team: but this obviously works in Carroll’s favor. Carroll knows how to recruit so he obviously knows how to scout NFL prospects — that’s like, the same thing. He knows Clausen better then any other coach in football.

3. Carroll is leaving USC in an ideal situation: their schedule is ‘favorable’ and they have a ton of talent. They’ll definitely win 7-8 bowl games and go to a bowl game, no matter who the coach is. Everything is going to be great for USC football.

So there’s you’re pro-Carroll talking points. Of course I added the snark and what-not because I think Cowherd is vacuous.

"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.

by millzners on Jan 12, 2010 1:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Ah Cowherd

The guy who pretty much claimed the 2007 Patriots the best team in any sport in the history of the world, rode their jock for weeks on end, said the Giants had zero chance in the Super Bowl, then had to eat it all after that fine, fine Super Bowl Win.

At least this time he’s making a claim he won’t have to eat like a big bowl of crap ice cream later.

by CDRS on Jan 12, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My friend found on Amazon

a book detailing the season the perfect 19-0 New England Patriots, which was available for pre-order prior to that Super Bowl. Somehow, it disappeared from Amazon…

"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

by IcersGuy on Jan 13, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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