The Troubled Mind, And Building Of, Jay Paterno
by Kevin HD on Jan 15, 2010 8:48 AM EST
in Penn State Football
247 comments
Jay Paterno has been writing columns all over the internet (and maybe in print, but I wouldn't have noticed). They've been getting better, too.
The most recent one is even kind of newsworthy:
Broken Promises, Useless Contracts: The Current State of Coaching
Both cliché and totally accurate.
[I]n 1966 Joe Paterno shook hands with Penn State President Eric Walker and was told the pay was $20,000 a year.
There were no negotiations, no agents, no buyout clauses, and he was a tenured member of the faculty. Tenure was a bit of a safety net - and a reminder that the coach was part of an academic institution and not bigger than the institution.
This is no understatement. Football coach at a place like Penn State was no rock star gig. JoePoz gets to that on internet-page two. Paterno felt called to something that no egomaniac would have really thought much of back then.
The past few days have seen seismic movements in the world of college football coaching where vacancies have occurred at two of the more notable programs in the country.
It goes on predictably from there. Not to discount it, but you've been reading about Kiffin for three days now and I think you get the idea.
I'm actually struck by something else here, though, that doesn't really have much to do with this all-consuming coaching story: JayPa seems really grown up in this column.
After the anti-development of Anthony Morelli, Jay became a kind of punch line that still gets play even as recently as 24 hours ago. But guess what: the NFL didn't do anything with him either. And Daryll Clark sure did make a lot of progress in the last two years. The offense was nothing to shake a stick at under his leadership, in fact it was pretty good. The guys is doing his job with, at worst, competency. At best? Well much better than a lot of other guys in the league.
But enough about football, we've got higher things to discuss. One final pull from Jay:
This profession has lost touch with the reality of the world around us, and some coaches have lost touch with what the mission of our profession should be ... Coaches walk into a recruit's home and talk about how they will look out for that young man's future. When the parents or guardians pass their boy on to college, they put his welfare into that coach's hands. The expectation is that the coach will help to guide him through a very formative time.
Very few coaches are actually doing this now, obviously, and the burden Joe has taken pride in taking on for 40+ years has become a pathetic thing of bad scripts for most other coaches.
Don't believe that? How many of the real life coaches that cameoed in The Blind Side are still wearing the colors they acted in?
Michael Oher went NFL'n in 2009 after four years at school. Here are the coaches that recruited him* and appeared in the film:
- Lou Holtz (South Carolina)
- Phillip Fulmer (Tennessee)
- Ed Orgeron (Ole Miss)
- Nick Saban (LSU)
- Houston Nutt (Arkansas)
- Tommy Tuberville (Auburn)
And here are the salesmen who are still around at those schools:
- (nope, none)
Nice, right?
*Interestingly, Penn State is listed in the book as the only major D1 school Oher didn't get a scholarship offer from. I'm not aware of any beat reporter ever asking Paterno why that was, which is too bad because I'd love to know.
So Jay is understanding something none of his peers are: that the values Joe will be remembered for are as abundant as afternoon newspapers.
But there's something more self-serving here, I think, than just calling things as he sees them. Jay has quietly been building a personality. He got involved in the last presidential election, he's effectively and tactfully been tweeting, and more recently he's taken up this regularly published column.
And this whole ‘mission of coaching' thing, it's kind of Penn State's pitch in a way. The marketplace is saturated with offensive geniuses, unstoppable system specialists and programs willing to stray into the gray. But there aren't a lot of programs selling quite what Penn State has to offer, and when Joe finally does leave us, will the program still be able to advertise that?
It's an important question. Stability and loyalty sell, and how many people out there have the public image, energy and respect to push the name brand we're all so proud of?
Jay no doubt wants the job. With tribulation all around and his inheritance of the most stable name in sports, has he quietly become a legit candidate?
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If Cutcliffe goes to UT
Is Jay to Duke a possibility? I don’t see him going to a Non-BCS school to get experience so I’m having trouble seeing where he would go. And if he does go anywhere, does he have assistants that would go with him? Would he have a staff ready or would he be raiding Non-BCS and D-1AA staffs?
Actually thinking about, it just seems risky for him to try a head coaching job somewhere and run the risk of ruining his rep rather than sticking around Penn State and taking a chance the school chooses him.
"I'm driven by greatness" - Derrick Williams
btw I choose 3-5 years more experience at his current position
but I’d feel better if he had total OC control and was gaining that experience.
I’m still in the Pro-Scrap or LJSR camp for the next coach.
"I'm driven by greatness" - Derrick Williams
Cutcliffe took his name out of the UT running.
You KNOW things are bad when the head football coach at DUKE doesn’t want the Tennessee job.
"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"
This might be the most interesting post I've seen on BSD
I think JayPa has gone from a guy with no shot, to a guy you can’t count out as a possibility for next head coach. I don’t think he’s there yet, but in a few more successful years, maybe a few years as full OC instead of this half and half stuff, I could see it. I actually really like the guy.
However, I’d much prefer a defensive-minded Tom Bradley taking the reigns and JayPa staying on as OC. I think that’s our best formula. Bradley wouldn’t be head coach forever either, and by the time he’s done Jay would be a very plausible head coach candidate.
Forgot to add this in my original comment, but
Penn State is looking for much more from its head coach than just a football coach. It’s becoming less and less likely that a national search for the next head coach will provide such a guy, and Penn State is lucky enough to have possibly 3 choices within the program (scrap, maybe LJsr or Jay). I don’t think there’s any way Penn State’s next football coach comes from outside the Penn State family.
If it would come from outside the current staff, it would be a very short list.
Al Golden. Not very many others.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
Supposedly, Golden's getting a look from Tennessee
…now that Cutcliffe is out of the running.
Twitter: @scrappled
scrappled.com
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Jan 15, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree
I think that would be awesome. Say he goes and puts together a great program and wins a bunch of games, then you not only have a great guy like Golden find some major D-1 success (and with honor), but you have a legitimate claim that he’s make a good PSU HC.
If he tanks, then you know for sure he doesn’t have what it takes to be a major D-1 HC, and that’s the end of the discussion.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
I think
People are worried he might do to well there and not want to leave. (If we do indeed pursue him when Joe goes)
Then again, I would imagine the PSU would be his dream job.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
Which, if it were the case, would put Tennessee back in the same position.
Fool me once…
"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"
Yeah
it wouldn’t be a smart move for them, and honestly if they keep hiring guys who have very public and obvious “dreams jobs” that aren’t at Tenn, well then they’d be sleeping in the bed they made.
And I agree, it’s probably not a bad thing at all. Coaching at Temple, even if done successfully, isn’t a different animal than coaching at major BCS school.
I know about your diabolical plan.
Fair enough.
But i would like to see him turn it around. I hate Miami too, but Randy Shannon seems like a good enough guy, and I would not hate seeing him turn it into an upstanding program.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
Word on the street now
is that Tennessee is going with L-Tech’s Derek Dooley. So…yeah.
"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Jimbo2psu
I agree…that’s it….end of discussion !!! Not really, but your statement makes the most sense, at least in PSU’s unique position. YouAll know that this situation (PSU’s) has never happened before and it will probably never happen again…I am happy with the status quo, although Galen could step down and make Jay OC.
Does Jay want to be HC?
I get the sense he would prefer to operate in relative (national) anonymity. For one thing, he would have to tone down his commentary, both political and football-wise. Not saying I disagree with him, but there is a reason even Joe doesn’t say this stuff.
Tone down?
I would disagree with that. He’s rarely critical of much, and although he does get political people forget Joe did the same thing a long time ago.
As far as overall rhetoric, it would be minor leagues compared to the stuff SEC coaches have been saying the last two years. And don’t forget Spurier even got involved in the SC flag thing, so there is modern precedent for speaking on on more than just x’s and o’s.
I know about your diabolical plan.
Hmmm
I can see both sides of this. If Jay were to be the head coach, I think it’d be important for him to continue insights like this. He couldn’t 100% use JoePa’s template because he isn’t JoePa. Everyone knows what Joe is about by now so he can afford to be relatively silent. I think it’s important for Jay to stay out there more. Too much publicity, especially outside the focus of college football, might make some contributors uncomfortable though.
There is a difference
He is being directly critical of others in the college FB coaching profession, and that would be a huge story. Joe Tiller made an offhand comment about RR and his hat and that was a huge deal. Think of Kiffin vs. Meyer the last year. There is a reason Joe was pissed about someone reporting his comment critical of Switzer, and that was before ESPN camped outside team headquarters 24/7.
How would HC JayPa tell his players not to call out opponents before the game, when he is writing articles giving unsolicited criticism of his opponents? The point is playing at PSU is about doing the right thing at PSU, not pointing out others doing the wrong thing elsewhere. Same goes for coaching. Getting into national debates with your peers is selfish and detracts from the main focus of your job.
I still disagree. Kiffin was CONSTANTLY taking shots at guys like Meyer. In the Tiller thing, I actually think most people thought it was a big deal because they believed him…the criticism there wasn’t towards Tiller but RR. There were also a lot of coaches that were speaking out accusing the Navy staff of teaching and encouraging "dirty chop blocks."
This is a big comment about the biggest football story of the year, so I can see maybe trying to back of this a bit, but I don’t think coach v coach insult wars are that uncommon.
I’m not necessarily saying he shouldn’t tone it done, it does make more sense to try and keep your mouth shot. I guess my point is I don’t think he has to shut up to get the job.
And besides, all this stuff is really just free advertising for the program, reminding people that Penn State never, ever has to put up with this crap and there is value in that.
I know about your diabolical plan.
I don't disagree
with his message, or the need for it, but it shouldn’t come from a sitting HC. That is the equivalent of taking a 15 yard penalty for smacking a guy who is holding you all game. Let the officials deal with enforcement. Your job is to play cleanly.
unfortuntely in this case the officials (NCAA rules enforcement)
are fairly incompetent, and when you have incompetent refs officiating a gamethe situation can often get out of control.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
I'm actually afraid you can catch VD by just watching that show.
But it is fantastic.
Just keep swimin'...
I've never watched it.
I don’t regret this.
by ReadingRambler on Jan 15, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
though if you ever have watched it
then you need to watch this
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
I could not watch more then 10 minutes. It is embarrassing and now impressionalble girls everywhere will think it is cool to act like those little skanks
Also, only one of these tools/ho’s is from NJ. They are from NY
Sorry, I was on a plane last week which means I read a People magazine
Proud to be a PSU Homer
Hey...
I didn’t say that it should win any awards, and I’m sure glad I don’t have any daughters.
Don’t get me started on Hoarders…
Just keep swimin'...
LOVE Hoarders!
those poor, sick, wonderful people
Did you see the house where they found the petrified dead cats? And the woman’s dentures?
That show is performing a service
Jersey Shore is the worse kind of trash. My neice things the girls on there are “fun”, that scares me
Proud to be a PSU Homer
Or the lady that tied herself to a chair to sleep. Cuz she couldn't find her bed.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
She just didn't have room to sleep and didn't want to fall off.
Anyways she did fall off, got tangled up in some garbage and nearly had to get her legs amputated due to gangreen or something.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
I remember when A&E was Law and Order reruns and "murder true story" shows.
Sounds more young and hip now.
by ReadingRambler on Jan 15, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
I think Paranormal State is on A&E too, about the Penn State ghost busters. I don’t watch that, or anything else about the paranormal. I am easily spooked
Proud to be a PSU Homer
another great one is city confidential
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Jan 15, 2010 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
And watching 'Intervention',
which immediately precedes ‘Hoarders’, gives you a double dose of how crappy your life is not.
There are actually some ‘reality’ shows that aren’t complete junk.
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Jan 15, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
FTW
The deadliest catch
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Jan 16, 2010 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, I've heard fascinating things about it
and it scares me because I’m a little bit of a hoarder myself (nowhere near the level these people are, but things like class notes from freshman year, or some random piece of junk trinket I got from some place I for some reason “need”)
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
You'll throw it all away after you watch this show.
There was one episode where a family was sleeping in tents outside because they had bed-bugs and the house was too full of crap for the exterminator to work.
Just keep swimin'...
I remember when I first heard about the show
Then like a day or two later, I was looking for something to watch ondemand, because it was like 3am and I couldn’t sleep. So I put this show on and was nearly hiding under the covers it was so horrifying.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
guess I'll have to get rid of that Joe Paterno QB @ Brown card I was hoarding
into the trash with thee!!!
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
these people have DEAD ANIMALS that can’t be found under mounds of trash. Does your living room look like this?
Proud to be a PSU Homer
absolutely horrifying.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
lol, no
and I don’t keep actual trash around (eww), well at least no more than any typical single bachelor, and I do make an effort to keep things hygienic, though I have been known to keep my clothes in piles all over my bedroom floor :-p
I actually feel much better about myself now
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Watch this show and you will feel like an OCD clean freak. The woman who owned the home of the photo above had no running water in her house for 3 years. At first, the cleaning crew refused to clean the “bathroom”. Someone finally took one for the team and cleaned it up. There were two dead cats under that mess, along with her dentures. Which she wanted to keep. And she admonished the crew for not finding the bottom teeth, just the top. They say these people lose their sense of small. Apparantly also taste, because while they were cleaning her house whe was sitting on her porch eating raw hot dogs. Can you tell I love this show?
Proud to be a PSU Homer
I've acquired the first season
and I have high hopes
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
The point is not that they are or aren't from NJ...
but are the type of people that go to that particular shore point. The show is like watching a train wreck, no matter how horrible, I can’t turn away.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 15, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
I thought that was understood.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 15, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Can't argue with this,
I do think it would be important for JayPa to be more in the spotlight than Joe in general though. And while the lines about Carroll and Kiffin may be a bit of a stretch, the overall message is still a positive one and I’m ok with it.
Except if Joe said it
It would be the front page article on si.com right now. By having Jay say it, it generates some discussion, but it’s not a huge story.
Joe’s a pretty bright guy for being a senile old man.
Just keep swimin'...
The best part
Is that he would never comment on it in public, but you know Joe thinks those guys are scummy. That makes my heart warm.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
"Criticism of opponents"
Did Jay actually say anything that inflammatory? If someone acts like a doucheabag (i.e. abandoning your program and players who look up to you for greener pastures, and by greener I mean millions of dollars of cash, while simultaneously trying to destroy the program you’re leaving, like the story about Ogeron (sp?) calling Tennessee’s recruits and freshman AT THE SAME TIME the head coach is announcing he’s leaving), especially a head coach of a college team, why is that not setting a good example for your student athletes?
IMO, and I’m not to be as homerish as possible, but I think it actually sets a good example. PSU has been steadfast in it’s mission statement of turning boys and gals in to men and women, by putting academics before athletics. PSU athletes learn more than just their class material, or plays in a playbook, they learn maturity and how to become a respectable member of society (yes, I know there are a few PSU exceptions to this) . Look at Navorro Bowman. He started off on a really bad foot. Got into fights, law trouble, etc. Then two catastrophic events happened in his life, and he turned to the coaches as a mentors (and as the father figures he had just lost), and now not only is he a college graduate, he’s become a thousand fold more mature than he was when he came in, as well as a great athlete. So if one of the goals of PSU athletics is to teach maturity and responsibility to it’s student athletes, how is calling out two complete a-holes for disregarding the rules (see NCAA allegations against both UT and USC), as well as disregarding your role in the lives of these kids that you’re supposed to be turning into responsible adults by jumping ship as soon as you see more cash in your future.
Jay isn’t setting a bad example by “calling out” other coaches. He’s pointing out what NOT to be and act like, and how much differently we do things at PSU, which IMO is a tremendously good lesson to teach.
by dawsonPSU10 on Jan 15, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is a repost from the other thread, deal with it.
This and the other discussion about who should be talking for the program are actually two pretty interesting discussions in my opinion.
I read Jay’s article and I thought two things, first was that Jay is really developing a voice while saying some pretty interesting and provocative things. Then I had an “LL Cool J/Any Given Sunday moment” where I just wanted to scream, “what do you know, you’re an offensive. Coordinator. Paterno.”
What that was, was a shot a across the bow in recruiting wars. If you want to get top talent to come to Penn State, you have to sell them on what Penn State is. And every off season this crap goes on is a commercial for, “come to Penn State, ’cause this shit happens everywhere but here”. How many unhappy kids got left in the Pete Carroll/Lane Kiffin wake? How many of them passed on Penn State offers for golden promises of playing time and greener pastures? Our response to Joe Paterno is old is “yeah, but at least he’s not demonstrably dishonest”.
For all our bitching, our team is fantastically well coached. We fool the NFL constantly, with players that look great in college, but get to the league and all the sudden can’t quite get it done. That’s coaches getting the most out of players, not some sort of indictment of the way we do things. Perhaps we’re able to maintain our coaching staff, despite what seems to be below average pay and little chance for advancement for exactly the sort of thing Jay’s talking about. Come to Penn State; the uniforms a plain and the pay may be shitty, but at least you’ll be able to sleep at night.
One of my favorite Paterno quotes is, "where is a kid going to go if he’s an idealist?". I once said, "the trouble with a lot of kids is that they just don’t know they are Penn Staters yet. I think Jay is just trying to get the word out that you can still come to Penn State and avoid all this bullshit.
All that being said, who’s to say Jay can’t be the head coach? He seems to have a pretty good handle on what Penn State is supposed to be about. And he’s actively out there trying to sell it, which is, I think, a good thing.
Just keep swimin'...
by jesse. on Jan 15, 2010 9:15 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
The point you made that sticks out to me
Is that we need to sell the “Penn State way” of doing things, now more then ever because it contrasts so sharply with the way 90% of the other major D-1 programs do things. How many of the kids stuck in coaching transitions at Notre Dame, Florida, Tennesse, USC, and Michigan considered Penn State, and didn’t choose us because they believed we’d be the ones transitioning? That’s just astounding to me: our biggest perceived weakness has largely become our greatest strength in just a few years.
There’s an ebb and flow to college football, we’re reaching an apex of coaching transience and Penn State stands at the exreme opposite end of that spectrum. Somebody needs to punctuate this series of events with “and this would never happen at Penn State”, and I’m glad somebody did. I’d rather it be Joe, but that’s a lead-in to the another discussion.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
I'd rather it be Joe too...
But like I said below, it would just be too much of a “thing” Joe said it.
Just keep swimin'...
If nothing else
When Joe Paterno says something, it makes headlines, and it gets traction with the media. I would love for him to go out and toot the Penn State horn a little just to stir up some more press coverage of us. In these weeks leading up to a big recruiting deadline, you can never make your sales pitch too clear.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
I voted for go somewhere and get some head coach experience
and then immediately regretted it. I think that if he leaves and goes somewhere else only to then come back to Penn State goes against everything that he is saying now and why he would possibly be a canidate. What would distinguish him leaving whatever program he was at from Kiflin leaving Tenn? He would have lied to the kids he was recruiting.
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
Coaches can leave jobs
Does every position coach at PSU have to start as a GA and work their way up, never coaching in another place? Coaches change jobs, it has to happen, and you can make a good case that the diversity of opinion/process is a net benefit to the kids you are mentoring.
Obviously, there is a long way to go on the spectrum before you get to Saban/Petrino/Kiffin world, but I think there is a little overreaction here to the events of the past week.
Overreaction indeed.
Although I think there’s still a point to be made about the “right” way to do it. What Kiffin did was not the “right way”, and Saban has been a lying windbag though three high-profile moves.
The model IMO is Kelly. Sure, leaving is painful, but it’s a reality of life. He didn’t lie to anyone, he didn’t take shots on his way out the door, and even for a ND guy I respect him.
I know about your diabolical plan.
he didn't lie to anyone?
You don’t think there are freshmen there he told he would be there all 4 years?
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
18 years old or not...
why would you believe a coach would be there for 4 years? I would believe it if Paterno, Beamer, Sweater Vest or Mack Brown said it and that is about it and I would be wary if the last two said it, but would probably believe them. If your potential coach is younger and/or at a mid-level program, he may leave. Deal with it.
With that said, I love the PSU program because that isn’t an issue. It truly is unique.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 15, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
you are giving 18 year olds too much credit
at 18, I would have believed an authority figure, especially at that level
Proud to be a PSU Homer
At 18...
I didn’t trust anyone with authority.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 15, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Me too, gotta love that angst.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
I found a picture of Esteban and Roland with their friends in high school:
by dawsonPSU10 on Jan 15, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Nice work Dawson....
What are Joey and Pasey up too?
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 15, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
That's a great episode.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 15, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
I think Kelly as a model is a bit too far
seems like there had to be a better way than leaving your 12-0 team right before the Sugar Bowl against the Fighting Tebows with a perfect season on the line.
and what better way is that?
have Notre Dame pass on you because they can’t wait that long and leave recruits in limbo? Stay at Cinci after announcing you are heading to ND with no one respecting/wanting to play for you because you are abandoning them to coach at ND?
Those were about the only 3 options on the table for him, and that last one may not have even been an option for him.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Well, when I switched jobs
They wanted me to start right away. And I told them no, and that if they decided to hire me anyway I’d show them the same loyalty in that situation.
What should Kelly have done? IMO he should have accepted the job, sent a letter to every single Notre Dame recuit explaining to them that the reason he has not personally contacted them is because he had moral and ethical obligation to his current players, and the University of Cincinnati to do his job to the best of his ability through the completion of their bowl game. And then he should have done so.
Just keep swimin'...
This is a completely different animal.
I think he could have handled it better though.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
I don't think so
How many recruits, that weren’t going to bail anyway, leave or decide to go to a different school because Notre Dame, or USC, or Michigan decided to hire a guy with a shread of loyalty to their current school and their current players.
I’d also leak the letter so it got reported on and everybody would be saying that jesse. guy sure knows the right way to leave a job.
Just keep swimin'...
I'm not saying your completely wrong
I just think that its a different magnitude of situation and likely impacts a lot more people. No disrespect of course.
He definitely could have done things differently and likely should have, but this wasn’t like the worst I’ve ever seen.
I mean if he tells his players he is gonna leave for ND, but will stay for the bowl, sure some will really respect that but I feel like most of them will feel betrayed anyways and he would be a lame duck, no sense on staying on. You can’t be head coach at 2 different places.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
yes, but my point with the third option
is that once he announces he’s going to be the head coach for Notre Dame, then he can’t really fill the role of head coach for Cinci.
Picture this situation:
Kelly announces he’s going to be head coach at ND, but still coach Cinci’s bowl game.
Some player has a discipline problem, and acts out in practice. Kelly tries disciplining him, say by making him run a few sprints or something. Player refuses saying, “you’re leaving, you don’t want to be my coach anymore, why should I listen to you?”
How does Kelly handle such a situation? Heck, even if that doesn’t happen, why would any of the players feel compelled to listen to him? Sure they want to win their bowl game, but I know I’d feel pretty disillusioned.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Switching jobs is a fact of life.
I don’t see any difference. He was an employee of the University of Cincinnati, if he employer was concerned about what you described, they have every right to relieve him of his duties.
In my scenario you lead by example.
Just keep swimin'...
That posted before I was done
In my scenario you lead by example. And it has the added advantage of treating everyone involved like men.
Just keep swimin'...
There are plenty of employers
who will terminate your employment the moment they find out you took another job (sometimes even if they just find out you are looking for another job), probably for this very reason.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
this is most likely if you are going to a competitor or staying in the industry
Proud to be a PSU Homer
See Pat Devlin
Keeping a “lame duck” around just causes distractions. Best to cut the strings. It’s always bad when a coach has to bail on a bowl game.
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi
which is complicated with the timing of everything
most coaches are fired after the end of the regular season, which means that is also when most places are looking to hire a new coach. Unfortunately it is also when most coaches (that are still employed) are preparing for their bowl game, and right in the heart of recruiting.
Perhaps they could institute some sort of blackout period, but I’m sure the shady schools would find a way around that.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
That was just Joe Paterno being petulant.
But my point holds. If Cincinnatti didn’t want him to coach the bowl game that would certainly have been a reasonable decision.
But in my opinion, Kelly had an obligation to finish coaching the season.
Just keep swimin'...
True
but I guess I would hire JayPa as HC just to keep the values and traditions. If he went somewhere else and then came back, he would be losing some of those values by lying to his recruits from the previous season.
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
Why would he automatically be lying?
You tell them what Joe does. “I don’t know if I’ll be around for your whole tenure” You tell them not to come because of you, you tell them to come because of the school.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
That's a possibility
and I very well may be wrong, but I thought JoePa only started doing that recently (within last 20 years) b/c he didn’t know if he would retire. I assume he didn’t tell that to recruits in the 60s and 70s and doubt that it would work for someone JayPa’s age.
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
Well I guess
Just tell them that there are no guarantee. Do not flat out tell them you could leave any moment, but let them know that anything happens and that they better be sure they wanna come here because it is a big decision.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
Just as a sidenote
Any one of the asst. coaches probably holds the same values and traditions as close to their hearts as Joe does, just as much as Jay does. You don’t stay on the staff, turn down offers to go elsewhere (for most of them anyway), and not at least have a little bit of JoePa’s Penn State Way rub off on you.
by dawsonPSU10 on Jan 15, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Everybody does it.
SO WHAT! That doesn’t make it right. Jay’s called a spade a spade. There’s nothing wrong with that. And to the extent that it insults those that it’s hit a little to close to the mark, tough shit.
I think the fact they our program has decided to start taking shots at the ones that participate in this crap is a good thing.
Just keep swimin'...
For one small reason, I want JayPa to be HC. and for a really long time.
Say Jay is HC for 20 or so years. Then you can say that PSU has been coached by a Joseph Paterno for the past 80 years. Har har har.
Anyways, I don’t hate Jay. I wouldn’t hate for him to be our coach some day, but I think I want to see him be more proven, and I definitely do not want him to directly follow his father.
It is often said that you don’t want to follow a legend, you want to be the guy that follows the guy. It would be a huge story that Joe is replaced by his son, and while PSU wouldn’t have the typical pressures, l would imagine that living up to daddy’s shoes when daddy is possibly the best there ever was at his position would be tough.
As someone stated above, I think that a logical procession would be either Scrap or LJSR (whom are both getting up there) with Jay going full OC. Then Jay taking over from them. There would be wonderful continuity that way, provided nothing apocalyptical happens by then.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
He graduated 30 or 31 years ago.
Twitter: @scrappled
scrappled.com
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Jan 15, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah as RUTS says, he is gettin there
I mean he could still coach for 10-15 more years or hell more if they have some of that age defying potion left that Joe has been taking.
and I think that LJSR is even older, like dang near 60.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
Also, AHHH NEPOTISM!!!! FIRE JAYPA!!!!
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
I realize that that comment is a joke
But responses like that are why Jay Paterno (or at least some peoples reaction to him) will forever be one of the biggest mysteries to me. I feel like people hate him for little to no reason and tend to use him as a lightning rod for everything that goes wrong with PSU football. Not to say he doesn’t deserve some of the ire he draws, but it seems like a lot is heaped on him for no other reason than this: he’s the guilt-free Paterno to blame.
It seems like blaming Jay is just as good as blaming Joe, you just don’t have to feel bad about saying disparaging things about a college football legend. If the offense doesn’t do well, Jay’s to blame. If we lose out on a recruit, Jay’s to blame. Hell, even if we win the game but its too close, Jay’s to blame. Yet when we take a 2 star QB recruit and shape him into an All-Big 10, MVP QB who is leaving with many of Penn State’s passing records, Jay gets little, if any credit. And I realize that most of the people with this attitude are just negative people, but you never see anyone actually come out and say “I like Jay Paterno”. At most, people will give you an “I don’t hate Jay” or “he’s alright”. Even I suffer from the same issue. I do think he is a good OC and I hope that our offense continues to improve and flourish over time so the negative perceptions of him fade away and people can look at him objectively and make a judgement about him without too much bias.
I'll do it
I like Jay
I didn’t always, but he has earned by respect
His political involvment does not bother me. He is respectful about it and I think that it positions him as someone who cares about the world around him
But I do agree he looks goofy
Proud to be a PSU Homer
am I the only one who voted for Obama here????
by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 15, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
let's not bring up anything ending in Bama here...please
thats like lighting a cig while you pump gas…
O-bama...Ala-bama
Ala is sorta like Allah. You’ve just proved it, Obama is a Muslim! (please don’t let this lead into a political or religious tangent)
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
+1
(Just evening things out, RR)
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Jan 15, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
No
I deleted the crack about whose politics I prefered seconds before I posted my reply.
Just keep swimin'...
good call..
it is tough to hold back though
I assume not.
Hence the one joke about RUTS working at the factory where they make Obama gimmick products.
by ReadingRambler on Jan 15, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Sorta.
I was thinking more like the Special Obama Coins.
by ReadingRambler on Jan 15, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Nice Sig
Barbasol wants you!
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Jan 15, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
I'm eating elitist tofu meatloaf and bean sprouts off these tonight
by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 15, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Are you washing that down with...
soy milk and reclaimed rain water?
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 15, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
i'd blow line across his daughter's bare back
by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 15, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
You know...
I’d never heard that story until today. I always figured a Biden child would be a fun drunk, not crackhead.
by ReadingRambler on Jan 15, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
she looks sweet, yet obviously wild
i don’t snow blow, but given a chance with her…
by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 15, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
???????huh
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Jan 15, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
yep
then I’m throwing it away in my biodegradable compost bins
by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 15, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
no ur not i volunteered for him
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Jan 15, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe I can shed some light on that mystery
For you to understand the “Jay Sucks” contingent of Penn State, you have to consider the “Joe must go!” contingent of Penn State because they are mostly the same people.
I come from a Penn State family, and many of the older alumni are unapologetic “Joe must go!” people. But try to understand it’s not because they’re ungrateful, it’s not because they’re stupid, it’s because my family predates the Joe Paterno era at Penn State. It’s offensive to them the notion that before Joe arrived, Penn State was nothing but farm fields, because that belittles the education and service of my alumni anscestors who attended and worked for the university before Joe was even born.
So for many people in my family, Joe’s arrogance and stubborness and the belief by many people (including Joe) that he single-handedly create Penn State out of nothing is a pure insult. And then Joe adds to that insult that not only is he the best thing ever, his KIDS are pretty great too! So he hires his own kid, who’s accomplished exactly nothing without his father but somehow ascends to the level of OC (because his dad promoted him). And just in case that wasn’t enough, we’re supposed to believe this guy’s a viable HC? They can’t stand his father who’s actually accomplished a great deal, and they’ll NEVER accept Jay.
I don’t agree with most of this, but I understand their point at least.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
by millzners on Jan 15, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he single-handedly create Penn State out of nothing
when I read this, I think he built the football program and not the university. but I can see why other people read it differently.
by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 15, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
A lot people don't draw the distinction
between university and football program. Otherwise, why is there a perception that Penn State is a superior school to places like Ohio State and Florida, when from a rankings prospective there is pretty much no difference?
Just keep swimin'...
I hate school rankings
mostly because there are crater-size differences in the quality of different programs, and even within the tracks of those programs depending on professors and course offerings. This has to be true at every college, and so the idea that there is some kind of “sum” just blows my mind.
Also: college is by and large what you make of it. I know kids at PSU that took night classes despite not having any day job, found the easiest gen eds and bought most of their notes. I would argue they didn’t even really go to the same school I did, so Penn State’s ranking doesn’t really apply to both of us.
Not sure why I just wrote all that.
I know about your diabolical plan.
I remember US News and World Report
once had us and UCLA neck and neck around the 40 range. Now UCLA’s somewhere in the top 25, and we’re somewhere between UC Irvine and Florida in the upper 40’s (last I checked).
What changed, exactly?
A bigger WTF: UC Santa Barbara and UC Davis are ranked higher.
by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 15, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with KHD here
but I think its important to add that part of the value of a degree is in the school’s reputation. You get a better education at Harvard than at Penn State, but its worth it to go Harvard and pay twice as much (or more) not because the education is better—but because you have Harvard on your resume.
To the extent that football made Penn State a nationally-known university, which happened under Joe’s watch, he did make the University what it is.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Except, so much of 'Elite Academia'
has become so PC, and diluted with pass/fail grading structures and way too many majors ending in ‘-Studies’ that many small to mid-sized businesses (that do the vast majority of hirings) consider their grads semi-tools, and unprepared for the rigors of the real world. A Top Dollar degree, on the whole, is not nearly as useful as it was 30 years ago.
Dollar for dollar, PSU rocks. The education is very good, the Alumni Family is huge and incredibly loyal, and we tend to favor our own.
That, my friends, is why…….We Are!
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Jan 15, 2010 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Correct, but also remember we had a pretty string of coaches before Paterno too. 3/4 head coaches before Paterno are also in the hall of fame. That’s part of it as well. It’s not like he invented success at Penn State, he just perfected it.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
I think Joe realizes this
not that you’re saying that he doesn’t.
And he definitely doesn’t think he’s perfected anything, particularly not success.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Joe Isn't nearly arrogant enough to think that way.
Rip was his mentor, I am sure Joe defers as much as he can towards him. The coaches before might be a little before his time, but its not like Joe is charlie weis here, I mean he has humility.
I would likewise think that being Joe’s son, Jay has humility as well. I doubt Jay struts around with his chest puffed out singing "I"M JOES SON YOU CAN"T TOUCH ME." Regardless of wether or not he was directly qualified to be hired as an OC, he has worked very hard. Its not like he just sits around and does nothing resting on daddy’s laurels
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
cough
scott paterno,cough
Just keep swimin'...
by jesse. on Jan 15, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This maybe?
by ReadingRambler on Jan 15, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
That, and I grew in State College. He’s the same age as one of my brothers, they knew each other. Let’s leave it at that’s not the first time that kid traded on his old man’s name.
Just keep swimin'...
I actually
Have a contact that’s involved with what he does now for a job, and what I heard was that he uses that last name for all its worth. He’s also incesantly lazy.
I’ll never forget seeing the PSU blue and white compaign signs littering the highways of Harrisburg that plainly said “PATERNO”.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
i actually feel bad...
for Cooper Manning. What can he possibly accomplish that Eli and Peyton don’t retort with (as only brother can), Hey Cooper, how many super bowls you win?
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 15, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Cooper
He was once an all-state high school receiver, catching touchdown passes from little brother Peyton, and a hot commodity headed for Mississippi.
But then came the numbness in the hands and fingers, and the tests and finally the diagnosis: Spinal stenosis, a narrowing of the spinal canal.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/lopresti/2008-01-30-lopresti-cooper-manning_N.htm
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Oh...
I know he had health issues, but I’m sure his brothers tease him. That’s what brothers do, but I mean, it must be hard to have two Super Bowl winning brothers and a famous QB dad.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 15, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
they do tease him
and if you read the whole article, you feel bad for cooper, but not really. he still has a pretty great life. but he’s no scott paterno; he seems to actually be a decent dude.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Future T: Jay Knows Football (Front); He Learned From The Best (Back)
I like Jay although admittedly I didn’t start out in that camp. After I began following him on Twitter & FB and read his articles, I slowly grew to really like and appreciate what he brings to the table even if I don’t always agree with his views. I also had the opportunity to meet and interact with him and he was the complete opposite of a docheabag. He’s not Joe, but he does Joe proud. IMO, he’s not yet ready for the HC job but when he is I will wear the “Jay Knows FB” T with pride.
"Losing a game is heartbreaking. Losing your sense of excellence or worth is a tragedy." - Joe Paterno
by SurfingLion on Jan 15, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
I think...
that there are a lot of good posts here, but I don’t think I read what I believe is the right answer…
If PSU is about doing what’s “right”, then they certainly aren’t going to just ‘play it safe’ and hand it over to someone internally – they want to ‘play it right.’ Who’s to say that when this job pops up that candidates won’t emerge from unlikely programs and places, be it at the pro or college levels – including experienced, successful head coaches that fit the mold, and continue the tradition seamlessly…
IMHO – I think Penn State will define doing ‘what is right’, by finding the best of the best (you know what I mean here), and while that could certainly come from within, that seems like a less likely scenario than everyone here seems to think….
by stewsplace on Jan 15, 2010 10:16 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Who's to say...
that when the old man leaves we won’t get drug down into the same sewer? Nobody, hell we might. But for today, we aren’t there and that’s something to be proud of.
LIke I said, this is about recruiting. It’s right about now you start either losing verbal comitments to other schools, or getting them from other schools. Both USC and Tennessee have pretty impressive recruting classes. Who’s to say that one isn’t a little bit disillusioned with the whole process, and maybe wants to go a different direction?
Just keep swimin'...
I've only seen one interview with JayPa
the rest I’ve read. I know absolutely nothing about him other than political leanings and various tweets. Maybe he should step in front of the mic more, be in the public spotlight more often.
had to laugh
the anti-development of Anthony Morelli
according to laws of physics and nature, this is impossible. yet, it happened.
according to those laws
isn’t that actually the most likely outcome? (entropy and all)
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
If by entropy you mean the universe (i.e. the QB position) was increasing in chaos
Then yes.
Side note: I HATE thermodynamics with a passion, the entropy stuff confused the hell out of me. It was all too “spacy” for me. I mean how the f**k do you measure the disorder of the universe? It’s like physics, it’s taught as science (we went over thermodynamics in both bio and chem classes), but it’s nothing more than glorified math.
I read Thomas Pynchon
and I still don’t know what entropy means
by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 15, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
ALSO Intersting.....
Not that I would know…but how can anyone articulate what JayPa’s coaching has or hasn’t done for our program? Morelli and Mills could have just been ‘busts’, but they also could have never fully developed due to inabilities of JayPa.
Similarly, Robinson and Clark brought success back to the program, but this could have been more attributable to their raw athleticism, ability to run and shake tackles, etc… than the coaching by Jay to the P …
Personally, evaluating JayPa seems impossible due to the extremely varied success of quarterbacks in recent years…so ‘head coach’ and ‘JayPa’ don’t seem to fit together whatsoever
Mills is at best an "incomplete"
He was hampered by injuries and had no one to throw the ball to. I actually thought he was a pretty good QB, considering.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Me too. After the shoulder injuries, Mills never had an arm
but I thought he was a sound QB with the talent/health he had left
Yes yes yes
The only thing Mills did wrong was being born 4 years too late. He could have been a senior with Derrick and Co.
by ReadingRambler on Jan 15, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Mills
Remember, before the injuries and when he had a decent receiver, Mills had one great year. Several 400+ passing yard games from what I remember. And he also was a short yardage running threat.
BarryP
2002
He set the passing record with 399 yards against Iowa, led a great game against Wisconsin, and did very well against Michigan IIRC.
And that’s not even to speak of the awesomeness in the ’01 games against NW, OSU, and MSU.
by ReadingRambler on Jan 15, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Response to footnote...
My understanding is that Penn State only recruits players we have a realistic chance at getting. I recall a story about Paterno refusing Archie Manning’s direct request to recruit Payton Manning simply because Paterno knew there was no chance that he was leaving the south. Possibly the same thing with Oher?
Just keep swimin'...
Maybe
but it wasn’t that PSU was the only school to not personally visit him, it was that Penn State was the only school to not even send out a letter. According to Lewis, PSU was literally the only major college that didn’t do this.
I know about your diabolical plan.
the fact that Joe didn't go after Peyton
is an interesting analogue. The book makes it seem like Oher chooses Ole Miss b/c his “dad” went there…I can’t remember his dad’s name now, but that guy IS a franchise in the south—he was the greatest white pg in the history of the sec, a broadcaster for the Grizzlies, owner of a bunch of taco bells. How in the world would his “son” come to Penn State?
I hope it’s true that Joe doesn’t go after players he knows we don’t have a shot it. That’s a smart use of resources and helps preserve the brand, in my opinion.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Oher
Having read Blind Side, I wondered what the comment meant. IIRC, it did say PSU was the “only major college” that didn’t offer Oher, but that’s not obvious as to what it means. Only 1-A school? Only BCS conference school? Only traditionally elite program? The book was deliberately vague.
With Jay...its all about identity...
Because he’s left is Mark on the program in several ways the past few years…
The general impression I got when I was at PSU from ‘01 – ’05 was that our QB/offensive play and offensive recruiting was horrendous because the Nepotism reared it’s ugly face in the press box every Fall Saturday alongside an old man (Galen) who had been drug out of retirement to satisfy the wishes of a former coach (Joe).
-There was the NFL, star studded team of ’02 looking incompetent every time they played a ranked, decent team.
-There was the shit storm that was ’03 and ’04 where it seemed like they were recruiting offense from the club flag football teams and we were attempting to have an athlete play all of the skill positions at once (if only MROB figured out how to throw to himself)
—Jesus, there was ’04 Iowa and I wanted to throw myself off of the upper sections of Beaver stadium. No offensive competency, never mind identity.
Then ‘05 happened, and with an athlete at quarterback, we had an offense again. He had relatively poor mechanics, but he was an athlete and most importantly, had the intangibles and instincts to win tight games. The ’06 recruiting class was perhaps the best of the decade. I wasn’t going to give Jay any coaching credit for MRob, but the offense has a quasi identity with a zone-read attack and a quasi-spread.
-The mediocre year we had in ‘06..I could accept…lost lots of talent and young guys hadn’t quite stepped up.
-Then ‘07 was a huge disappointment. No evidence of QB development. Jay was in my crosshairs again. I felt like he couldn’t run a pro-style offense or coach a pro-style QB..
-And the last two seasons we know what happened. A relatively unknown QB recruit from Ohio stepped up to be arguably the most consistent and competent B10 QB in the league. He may not have had the MRob instincts, but he developed (remember his passes in garbage time of ’06 and ’07…they were awful). Moreover the offense had assumed a real identity.
And I feel that this is what Jay deserves the most credit for… actually developing an identity for the offensive side of this football team. Now we know who we need to recruit and the players needed to get the job done. And its hard to argue with the results.
As silly as it sounded back in early ’08, the spread HD has helped make PSU one of the top offensive teams in the league for the past few years… something that contradicts the notion that PSU only wins with defense.
So with this long tirade, I end it by saying, Jay, I’m sorry. You’ve grown into yourself the past few years and have really made a positive impact on the program. With a slew of incoming QB talent coming in, I’ll hold off on assessing your QB coaching abilities, but your impact as an OC cannot be denied. I could care less if you blog about politics and voice your opinion on coaching shake ups, because maintaining your identity and sticking to your principles is what’s going to set you apart.
by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 15, 2010 11:02 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
The offense was fine...
But am I the only one unsure about the idea of PSU having an identity on offense? Are we a run spread team? Pass spread? I’ve seen us go from the shotgun 5-wide to the I-form in two plays. I’m not saying this is a bad thing, but I just don’t know what I would call this offense.
by ReadingRambler on Jan 15, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
it's a highly diverse identity...
hence the HD. ;-)
Seriously, I just think its the ability to run and pass the football equally well, and keeping the D honest. As opposed to the run run pass punt thing we we’re doing before that.
This year I felt we ran a lot more pro-style sets, but this formation really stuck out to me as being unique last year.
http://www.blackshoediaries.com/2008/9/24/620521/hd-formation-playmaker-s-d
by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 15, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Well it's players first
something RR and Tressel don’t value and sometime blatantly object to. They figure they can just get the right guys to fit their mindset, Jay (and Galen, I guess, who really knows) have done a very good job of getting good football players involved.
It doesn’t have an identity for me, but it somehow feels right.
I know about your diabolical plan.
And really it’s amazing the pass RR gets for “not having the right players.” What happens if he doesn’t recruit 22 perfect fits? Or a couple of them get hurt? Or a defense matches up perfectly and you don’t have the tools to throw them off guard? It’s kind of a stupid way to coach IMO.
I know about your diabolical plan.
Rich Rod is the new
Charlie Weiss.
He’s going to make excuses for himself until he’s happy with the results. Despite how “hot” they started, he didn’t really start complaining until they were on the cusp of a losing season.
by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 15, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
true..
I think Jay is smart enough to know you can’t win in the b10 without knowing how to run the ball really well.
That’s why I’m glad the spread HD isn’t a “Purdue Spread” where the running back is just there for looks.
by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 15, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Our Identity
Your unsuredness is just your Iowa roots bubbling up. And that was the diggiest dig they got on us this year. Because of both teams’ relative success this year, and especially head to head, it was all fresh and ready for their picking. Bellanca’d I believe: ‘does Penn State even remember its Core Competency?’ Damn that stung. But our Oline sucked this year and our Dline wasn’t as dominant as years past and their Dline was dominant and Oline serviceable and tough. So this year, it looked our identity was missing.
But it’s not. As this year will prove. Our trench play will be vastly improved on both sides. And I believe in the Spread HD. Core Competency? Not at all dissimilar to Ferentz’: Toughness in both trenches, physical disciplined D, and balance on O. Yes, we learned we need to pass better and we have. JayPa teaching Darryl freaking Clark to be a 65% passer showed us that.
What he does with this year’s quarterbacks will let us know if his teaching (and their collective judgment) was a fluke. But whatever happens there, our Identity will remain intact.
"We just forgot our pants. Nothing against the team or anything like that." -- take a guess
by jtothep on Jan 15, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well played.
What Bellanca said is part of it, but that’s not it entirely. I guess I’m just uncomfortable with as many formations as we seem to have. I don’t know.
by ReadingRambler on Jan 15, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
I'm probably being unreasonable.
But I can’t help but think of Nebraska players complaining about Callahan and his “War and Peace” style playbook.
Of course, I won’t be the only one wondering about this when Bama smokes us.
by ReadingRambler on Jan 15, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not going to pretend to be an X's and O's guy for football
I enjoy watching it, and I know what’s going on, what the penalties are for, what the rules are and everything.
But isn’t an offense that can change it’s shape and still perform competently a potent threat to an opponents defense? If you’re in the same shotgun formation the whole time, it may win you games, but it allows the defense to catch on to your system. The Spread HD, to me at least, would make me think that it’s not as easy to prepare for.
well there are problems if the system is overly complicated
because then it makes it easier for someone to forget their assignment, especially if it is one of 200 plays and you only run it very rarely.
Also, if you start having all different formations, but run the same predictable plays out of those formations, then the defense can key in on what play you will run just how you line up.
It seems ideal to have a few set formations from which you can launch a variety of plays (with each play having a variety of options) so that you can keep things simple for your offense, but that the defense won’t be able to predict what you are doing.
But I’m not an X’s and O’s guy either. I, like you, understand pretty much everything that goes on, and while I know that the play in the trenches is about the most important aspect of what goes on, I can’t ever really evaluate line play past “oh good, he didn’t let him get by” or “good, he got by him” (and their converse, “darn, he let him get by” and “darn, he got blocked”). I was actually pretty excited with carolinaeasy’s writeups since it gave me some insight.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
CarolinaTeasy's writeups!
j/k, sounds like Mr. Easy had a busy autumn ;) And I’m mostly with you, except for use of the word darn.
Depends on which game I’m watching nowadays whether I focus my eye on line play first and watch the ball and skill players peripherally. I find myself doing this now for most PSU games, depending on the quality of the open thread. Even surprised myself watching the fat white 3stars of the Texas Oline fending off bama rushers enough for their freshman dorkily-named quarterback to briefly look like their senior dorkily-named quarterback and thinking that Troutman, Wiz & Lou might be able to do the same for The Drake next year.
For NC State/South Carolina, I’m scanning the stands for hotties and hoping Bhawoh Jue Says Whatup is on the thread.
"We just forgot our pants. Nothing against the team or anything like that." -- take a guess
I always liked Jue
didn’t he spend a few years in Green Bay?
I think it would be pretty cool if he actually did say “Whatup”
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree about ’02, a couple of breaks and that team could have been in the MNC instead of OSU. Iowa and Michigan were both OT losses that we like to blame the refs for, and the OSU loss was on the road against a suffocating defense that scored the difference-making touchdown.
Don’t throw that pick-6, get a call or two in OT and that team was undefeated.
But I’m nitpicking, that’s a good take.
I know about your diabolical plan.
agree...
but what sticks out in my mind is an offense that couldn’t do anything against Auburn. They were so hell bent on running the ball with LJ.
by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 15, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Indeed
That game has always left me curious.
A friend went to that game, though, and from what I remember the wind was very strong and the field soaking wet. That’s an excuse, maybe.
I know about your diabolical plan.
yeah that game was many years and beers ago...
so I forget a lot of details.
But we threw the ball a fair amount in the Cap One and we know what THAT field looked like.
by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 15, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
If we're gonna bitch about the refs:
We had a last shot in the ’02 Ohio State game, but the refs looked away when Chris Gamble literally tackled Bryant Johnson while the ball was in the air on 4th down.
CONSPIRACY TO GIVE OHIO STATE THE NATIONAL TITLE! Terry Porter! Back me up, jtothep!
by ReadingRambler on Jan 15, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
what do you want...
B10 loves OSU. If there was a way they could have reversed Pryor’s fumble in ‘08, they probably would have. They certainly weren’t calling holding on any of our DL.
But that’s in the past.
by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 15, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Nicely said
One other little point I’d add to that is the story of Jay visiting Youngstown, OH looking at different potential recruit for us, and he saw Daryll and went into, “we need to get this kid a scholarship” mode. Obviously Daryll was a very raw QB specimen at the time and his first few years at PSU, but it always struck me in hindsight that Jay saw the potential in Daryll, despite all his flaws on and off the field, and look where that “raw QB” is now in the annals of PSU history.
Oh youth.
Dislike of Jay Paterno is not new – it was not born in this century – it is age old. Its roots stem back to Jay’s clipboard holding days. Or ask any Little Lion what they thought of Jay Paterno’s command of the game of football…
Jay got a job, at a major University, in a major sports program, when recent grads were working at McDonalds and Kmart because no one was hiring. When Jay tried to escape Happy Valley, his father lassoed him back into the system. It’s a family business, you know.
Penn State is not a quarterback school – the few ‘stars’ we’ve had over the years were the beneficiaries of coaching (or natural physical talent) that did not emanate from the Family.
We’ll see – the longer Joe stays, the more I think Jay will be our next coach – things have been pointing in that direction for years. Spanier and Curry’s comments over the (last 10) years about how Penn State doesn’t have the $$ for a “big time” coach – and the whispers of an unpublished “exit plan.”
We (including JayPa) do not know Penn State without Paterno. He, in many respects, is Penn State -
you have to think that they're preparing for something...
-Because those PSL’s in Beaver stadium are going to generate a lot more revenue and they said the reason they’re doing it is to keep them competitive with other top programs.
-FWIW, a while ago Joe was on TV saying that he thought Jay needed some more experience before he could be a HC a psu probably because people would think he “rigged the whole thing”. Again, for what its worth.
by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 15, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
I'm sure this is said elsewhere
but this is a great post, KHD.
I think the best part about it is that it makes it abundantly clear that any talk of a “national search” is a charade. The next football coach at Penn State will be a Penn State guy; either a member of the current staff or someone with ties to the school. Its the only way to make the best use of our competitive advantage.
And, I don’t think JayPa will be that coach, though I agree that he’s made himself into a viable candidate. If he were named HC, they would be the perception of wrongdoing, or nepotism, or whatever, and that would hamstring him for sometime. It would be much better to just get someone else without that baggage.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
He's running out of time though.
Unless he would take a job somewhere else while Scrap or LJSR ran the program meanwhile.
by ReadingRambler on Jan 15, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think
Jay has what it takes quite yet. But I’ve had long extended football related conversations with him, and he really really knows his stuff. People rag on him hard, but he isn’t actually stupid.lol
Writing a good post / article does not mean they would be a good coach
If that were the case, a lot of you guys would be standing in line. Face it, if the kid was good, there would be others trying to snap him up. So what, he gets thrown in there and we float around a whie to determine if he can make it. Do you hire a CEO from 2 rungs down and hope he doesn’t lose the invester’s money. One has to prove themselves as a commodity, and only having DC as his only positive piece of work does not do it for me.
Let’s look at Skip Holtz. On his resume he has assistant head coach and two head coaching positions at smaller programs.
In terms of football mind, the X’s and O’s, what can your really say about JayPa. Certainly having integrity is critical, but the knowing the X’s and O’s are also critical. We know Bradely has it for the X’s, can you say the same for the kid? I am just not sold. As a premiere program, it deserves the right to have one of the best football minds, and this kid has not proved much to deserve it.
I don't think anybody is clamoring for Jay to be HC tomorrow.
He is still fairly young and has plenty of time to grow.
I think the initial point of this article was to point out how amazingly lucky we are as PSU fans to have the kind of continuity we do. And while we might fudge up sometimes, we have the core value set that makes this place special. Some people feel Jay embodies that and maybe someday can take the reigns.
I also don’t think it can be understated how much more important the integrity of our program will play a part in our next coaching search than it is at a lot of schools.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
That was a pretty impressive post by JayPa..
.. well done. To me, it contrasts the vast gulf between the values of what Paterno the Elder has passed on to Paterno the Younger, compared to Monte & Lane Kiffen. Full disclosure here, I am a lifelong Buckeye fan, but throug the decades my 2nd favorite team has been Penn State, becasue of Joe Paterno. You are very fortunate to have had JoePa associated with Penn State (football & institution) for all these years.
Jay's ramblings are quaint and old fashioned, however
it is nice to hear from time to time. Everything he is talking about is driven by a free market dominated by our collective obsession with college football…so it ain’t gonna change.
Jaypa will never get the HC gig. I think it goes against the Grand Experiment and everything that the program and Joe has built into the PSU brand…it would reek of nepotism, especially when you have Bradley waiting in the wings and LJsr who has quietly proven himself to be a hot commodity in the coaching world.
If PSU really wants to continue in a way that is consistent with how it markets itself, they would hire LJsr as the new head coach and REALLY carry on the Grand Experiment. I even asked as much of JoePa at an alumni function before this season.
I think it says something pretty good about your program
When you have two guys on staff that could/would be legitimate candidates for head coaching gigs at many d1A schools, three guys that have been head coaches at legitimate D1A schools, and another guy who is probably a year or two away from being a third guy that could/would be legitimate candidate for a head coaching gig at a legitimate D1A school.
Just keep swimin'...
Best case scenario for Jay
is for Bradley or LJSR to be named next head coach, while Jay remains as OC (or perhaps head coach of a lower tier school where it would be expected of a coach to “move up”) and then gets serious consideration next time around. If he gets handed HC when Joe retires, then he will be overly criticized, and any flaws will be magnified because no one will believe he is qualified (whether he is or not wouldn’t actually matter), all due to the shadow of nepotism hanging over him.
The only way people would think he deserved the job is if he went undefeated and/or won the MNC, but even if that happened, they’d just say he did it with Joe’s players, and Joe’s system, so he’d have to maintain a ridiculous level of success for 4+ years for anyone to believe he actually deserved the job, yet few can obtain that level, let alone maintain it. Better to have some space in between the Paternos if Jay is ever gonna get the HC gig.
I honestly feel as if there would be an mutiny within the
NLC and Alumni communities if Jay was hired to replace Joe. If the school wants to make money, this certainly won’t help their cause. I know I’d scale the donations back
that could always give hm the excuse
“I never had the comparable funding that my father had” ;-)
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Paterno Top Of The World, Pa!
I don’t know how I missed this when it was released, but Posnanski’s article is one of the best pieces of sports journalism that I have ever read.
Awesome post
Loved the combo of block quotes, original content and link embeds. And my favorite: ‘JayPa has been quietly building a personality.’
"We just forgot our pants. Nothing against the team or anything like that." -- take a guess
I few months ago
I came to the realization that I would be perfectly happy with Jay as the next coach. We need a different choice for that poll. Jay can be the next HC if he’s given a few years in charge of the offense and the Nittany Lions continue having offensive success.
The biggest positive Jay offers is that he would take everything that is great about Penn State and dust it off and give it a new shine. A few years ago I saw Jay join some players at a screening of Glory. Actually, that’s probably where he won me over.
The biggest challenge with Jay is keeping the staff together. Who doesn’t like getting passed over and leaves? Maybe Jay will watch Glory with the other coaches. Maybe Band of Brothers? Maybe Jay can just be a rally awesome substitute history teacher, instead.
The fact is is, I think we can handle a slight drop-off in success if Jay keeps up graduation rates, bringing in good kids, the Penn State brand etc., etc., etc.
by ChrisHarrell's_stache05 on Jan 15, 2010 2:31 PM EST reply actions
Let's just say
that JayPa is not one-dimensional as some of you like to think…he could (does) have other opportunities, but I know he really enjoys his current job !
I find him to be a rather interesting guy
And not just because our politics are very similar. He’s clearly a guy with a broader perspective than most tunnel-visioned college coaches, and the fact that he’s Joe Friggin’ Paterno’s son adds all sorts of layers to his perceived suitability as not only an offensive coordinator / QB coach, but also a potential head coaching candidate here and elsewhere. There’s always going to be a faction dedicated to tearing him down at any expense (if we’re drawing a Venn diagram, these folks would mostly overlap the DEVLIN 4-EVA! population).
Even the results he’s achieved at PSU don’t really present a clear picture, but much of that is due to QB14 and the always-circulating rumors that our assistant coaches are often knee-capped by Joe Paterno’s conservative ways. You guys have already gone through the QB’s — Mills (injured, exciting enigma), Robinson (elite athlete, rough passer with enormous heart), Morelli (Morelli), and Clark (lightly regarded, turned into two-time MVP in Big Ten). Really, Clark is the best evidence that Jay might actually know what he’s doing.
My brother’s interacted with Jay a number of times and likes him quite a bit. Even got him a private tour of the White House a year or two ago.
Twitter: @scrappled
scrappled.com
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Jan 15, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Clark
Is really the single biggest signal that Jay seems to know what he is doing. Clark was a dual threat guy under Morelli, meaning run first. Then in 2008 he comes in and suddenly he knows how to throw too. Then in 2009 they severely limit his running, and he STILL is successful.
Everyone I’ve heard discuss Jay’s supposed problems with Qb’s note that “Every year they seem to get worse!” But with Clark he got better every year as a passer even when they took away his running. That’s a huge signal that something is working up there.
Now my concern is that with Newsome, there’s going to be expectations that are not realistic. Clark was a diamond in the rough, but Newsome is supposed to be good — and if he doesn’t develop quickly there’s going to be the same groans we heard in 2006 and 2007. If Clark’s development from a 2-star recruit was a challenge for Jay then it may be an even bigger one to take a heavily recruited guy and get him to live up to his potential.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
I'm actually a bit optimistic about Newsome
This season they had to limit Clark’s running because we would have been toast had he gotten hurt. Newsome will be able to run, because it’s not like the guys playing behind him will have sustantially less experience. You hate to say it, but the kid is a bit more expendable than Clark was.
Also, as required by staute; You can’t discount Matt McGloin who is playing real well, it’s really 1 and 1a right now.
Just keep swimin'...
I’m optimistic but I’m trying to temper my expectations as well. I guess this is the youngest starting QB we’ve had since Mills, and we’re coming from one of the best Qb’s to play for Penn State. There’s going to be that feeling of “uh c’mon! Clark would have seen that guy wide open over there.”
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
I think Joe actually might give me a tryout
I mean I am a 6th year senior and all. And I played a little QB back in recess
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
I triple dog dare you to walk on
can you still do that since Spring practice really has not started?
Proud to be a PSU Homer
If I could I would.
But nay! Excess alcohol consumption and an addiction to nicotine and a deep adoration for all things fried will prevent things like that from happening.
But yeah, I’m not entirely sure how the walk on process works. At least the non-preferred ones.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
I think i can block better then stop sign.... since i nevre delcared then how many years do i have left of eligbility
so what if i am pushing 30
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Jan 15, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
I'm in!
now to just figure out how this whole walk-on thing works…and to transfer back to PSU
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 15, 2010 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure there is room on Sparty for ya
I heard they had a mass exodus.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
I was gonna say I could probably walk on at WR with the problems they had
love that their “backup/1a” QB was their #3 WR in the Alamo Bowl
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 16, 2010 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
Jay and Joe
When PSU was down, I was terrified at thought of Jay possibly taking over (and I still am!), but he has done a lot with this offense and has pleasantly surprised me. He’s done a good job. I would be curious to see how this offense would be if Galen Hall left. However, I believe both Jay and Joe realize it is NOT in Jay’s best interest to be head coach at PSU and follow in his father’s foot steps. The shoes are too big to fill. Jay could do well for himself going somewhere else first…and then down the road, you never know.
Tom Bradley deserves a shot
I love this guy and have the luxury of meeting him. He such a cool guy and he makes an impression. I hope he gets the shot he deserves. He has been there serving Joe for a long time…he’s earned it in. In addition, our recruiting would be unreal. if you think it’s good now…wait and see what happens if he gets his shot. Had he been the head coach, we snag Pryor…that’s how much Pryor loved that guy. Bradley had been recruiting him since 9th grade. I know that’s just one example (and maybe not a good one in some peoples’ eyes), but he is as good of a recruiter as there is.
Agreed
I know some parents of a D-1 recruit who went to a couple camps around the country. Bradley got the highest marks from the kid and his parents of all the schools they visited (ND, Pitt, UConn, MSU, etc) — he was honest and straightforward and above all very likeable. Kids meet him and want to play for him.
I believe he will become he next HC, with LJ Sr. coaching the defense. If that alone holds, we’re in for a very productive recruiting years.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
TB--LJ Sr.--JayPa
Hey what about me…I have eligibility left and I could prowl the sideline in my wheelchair, eh? The chair is an HD model…Heavy Derriere.
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