Closing The Book On 2009
And so ends the 2009 season. Like all seasons, there were highs and lows. There were moments of disappointmen, and moments of euphoria. There were times when we felt like we were on top of the world. And there were times when it seemed like nothing made sense. These are the moments that make college football so glorious. So wonderful. If I ever see the fans of an NFL team rush the field, it will be the first time. Nothing compares to college sports.
Thank you, and congratulations to the 2009 Penn State football team for ending on a high note. A few weeks ago I opined that this was the forgettable season. Embarassing losses to Ohio State and Iowa sandwiched with uncompetitive wins over teams like Temple, Syracuse, Illinois, Indiana, and Akron made for a season void of memories worth remembering. There was not a single game, win or lose, that was decided by less than 11 points. But the Capital One Bowl and LSU changed all of that, and gave Penn State fans a win for the ages. Thanks for that.
Before I continue, I just have to say it's a shame that the condition of the field and the officiating took away from the game. I won't say it was the worst officiating ever, but it was clear that the officials had no control of the game. LSU fans are pointing at the quesionable personal foul penalty at the game, but it was more than that. There were questionable spots, like when Derek Moye caught a pass one yard past the first down line that got marked a yard BEHIND the line. There were blown holding calls, like when the LSU left tackle put an arm around Navorro Bowman's neck and tackled him to the ground on a blitz. There were times it looked like the officials either didn't know the rules or couldn't remember which down it was, like when Daryll Clark got called for intentional grounding on first down and all the sudden it was fourth down for Penn State. And is there a new rule that says every fumble or diving catch has to be reviewed? It's hard to enjoy a game when each drive is stopped twice to look at a play.
And how about the field conditions? What was up with that? I know it's n ot the Rose Bowl or anything, but that field was an embarassment by any standard. They would have been better off if they ripped off the sod the week before and just played on dirt. Thank God nobody was hurt as a result of that slop.
There's a lot of discussion going on about Daryll Clark's legacy. I won't get into that too much, but I think with time it will speak for itself. He leaves with just about every Penn State passing record despite only starting two seasons. He won a Big Ten title, and only lost four games in two years. And now with a win over a top 15 opponent, you can't say he doesn't have a big win. He may not go down as the greatest Penn State quarterback ever, but I don't see how you can't put him in the top five.
But enough negativity. What a great win for Penn State. The Nittany Lions already have enough questions going into 2010. We'll get into all that in the weeks to come, but it's good to go into the offseason with a confidence booster. Instead of looking inward and focusing on what's wrong with the program, we can all feel good about which direction we're going and just focus on looking ahead.
Go State! Hit the offseason!
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Hmm. Everyone must be watching this MSU game.
And by game, I mean 60 football minutes of the commentators discussing the kid with the concussion.
THIS!
" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009
by BlueWhiteLife on Jan 2, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of that game...
MSU’s defense looks like scheize.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
BHGP is where it's at
"Jamelle Cornley is 6’4", and 6’3" of it is balls." - RUTS
by ReadingRambler on Jan 3, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
Nobody has a better angry frown than Carr.
Nobody.
"Jamelle Cornley is 6’4", and 6’3" of it is balls." - RUTS
by ReadingRambler on Jan 2, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Carr's cheeks were frowning because they were attached to his face.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Easy:
Collins
Blackledge
Fusina
Hufnagel
Richie Lucas
NittanyWhiteOut.com. Arguably the second best Penn State blog I know of.
Mike McQueary?
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Dude, we get it. You’re not high on Clark. You won’t be swayed. It’s wonderful.
by TheK-GunNeedsReloaded on Jan 2, 2010 11:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No, dude
That’s not what I’m saying. Clark is just a tick below those guys. But to say he’s unarguably a top 5 QB in PSU history is to do those guys a disservice. We forget about how great they truly were because it’s been so long.
NittanyWhiteOut.com. Arguably the second best Penn State blog I know of.
Clark
I like Clark and think many underrate him, but I’d agree here. I don’t think it’s fair to say that Clark is “unarguably” a top 5 QB at PSU. I’d buy “debatably” top 5 though. I don’t actually have much of a problem with PSUdevon’s list.
and, while I'd have MRob on there
I know some people would disagree. If Clark had MRob’s clutchability, he’d have at least 2 wins vs. the Iowas and OSUs.
NittanyWhiteOut.com. Arguably the second best Penn State blog I know of.
And that’s where I disagree… MRob has even less business on a list of “top 5 PSU QBs” than Clark does. Clark is a far superior QB.
I compare 2005 vs 2008
Both in their first year starting, both had the same wideouts, though for MRob they were freshmen as opposed to seniors. Can’t tell me Clark would’ve won the Michigan game, but would MRob have won the Iowa game?
NittanyWhiteOut.com. Arguably the second best Penn State blog I know of.
The worst part about speculative bulls**t is that it's bulls**t.
Are we talking Robinson or Robinson with a concussion?
"Jamelle Cornley is 6’4", and 6’3" of it is balls." - RUTS
by ReadingRambler on Jan 3, 2010 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
what about
If it were Collins with a concussion, but with Michael Robinson’s legs grafted on, like some kind of frankenstein centaur. Obviously, he would have won those games which means difinitively Clark is not as good as Robinson.
Now if Clark had Collin’s legs grafted on (which come with a massive hangover from the previous evening’s bender) then that’s a different story altogether. Then you’d have to think Clark stays in the 2008 OSU game simply because he’d start the game too hungover for anyone to know he’d been concussed.
I love to speculate.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
by millzners on Jan 3, 2010 1:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What about Shorty Miller?
I think we’ve forgotten how truly great he was because it’s been so long.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Exactly
What if Shorty Miller played in 2009 at home against Iowa? He’d have definitely won, the guy was a straight baller. Just think about that before you go talking about how great this Clark kid is.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
by millzners on Jan 3, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
we woulda won the 2009 OSU game as well
since OSU would have forfeited
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 3, 2010 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
This is too good a game to turn off
but I swear, if I hear Mike Leach or Craig James’ names uttered one more time I will watch the rest of it on mute.
Did I just see Larry the Cable Guy in the Texas Tech fan section?
And people knock central PA folks….
I hate to go off on a tangent on an excellently written post and wrap-up of the season
but I can absolutely not stand Larry the Cable guy. I’ve seen him on comedy central and wasn’t sure if he was speaking english at any point in his act and didnt laugh once.
Oh Sparty
gagging on apple sauce. That Texas Tech team was just about to mail it in after a bad 3rd quarter, but then D’antonio found a way to somehow let them get the momentum back.
For the record, that holding call on the flea flicker that was pretty much the turning point in the game — the call was complete BS. The dude got injurred and fell over and I’m not real sure how you can call that holding. But after that play things went down hill really really fast for Sparty.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
I don't know if I can fault Dantonio's *game* decisions
The third down conversion by TTU that led to their TD (after they put in their backup) really changed the momentum. And that was because Michigan State’s defensive backs are terrible.
So we can either blame Dantonio for employing Pat Narduzzi or for having players that beat the s**t out of students.
"Jamelle Cornley is 6’4", and 6’3" of it is balls." - RUTS
by ReadingRambler on Jan 3, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Oh Sparty indeed...
half of your team is in jail…what did you expect.
I started watching Penn State Football
for good after the ’87 Fiesta Bowl. So since then the best seasons IMO have been:
1994
2005
2008
2009
1996
1999 was a great year til Minnesota...loved that team
HAHS circa 93' "Football is 1/2 Offense, 1/2 Defense, and 1/2 Special teams".
indeed
but what a tale of 2 seasons. First 9 games were wonderful, last 3 were the complete opposite of wonderful.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 3, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
2 QB's
Well, that team proved that you need to settle on one QB and not waffle back and forth.
Good year
great way to close it.
If nothing else, the memory of that field and win will leave lasting memories
It never gets to be easy
I posted this on another thread but...
All things considered (on and off the field) I think Darryl was a nice QB for PSU. Gawdy stats, yes. One of the greats? Surely not. Great kid, great representative for the university.
To me, he is a more athletic Wally Richardson (who was also an excellent ambassador for the university) and at the time a very capable passer.
MROB was the better player, regardless of stats because of his leadership, poise, and his willingness to play any position that was asked of him throughout his career.
Just a note
When posters such as JT O’tothep, JESSE!, and myself use other screen names, we do it as a joke. You’re doing it wrong.
"Jamelle Cornley is 6’4", and 6’3" of it is balls." - RUTS
by ReadingRambler on Jan 3, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
My personal favorite:
TheLesserErik.
"Jamelle Cornley is 6’4", and 6’3" of it is balls." - RUTS
by ReadingRambler on Jan 3, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Uh huh.
"Jamelle Cornley is 6’4", and 6’3" of it is balls." - RUTS
by ReadingRambler on Jan 3, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
i do enjoy the pseudo trolls we need more of them
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Jan 3, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
what is your criteria for "one of the greats"
and how many “greats” are there allowed to be?
It seems like everyone is pointing at all the “greats” and saying that Clark falls just below them (whether they place Clark at #6 or #7 or #8 or whatever). This all seems like rather arbitrary cutoffs to specifically exclude Clark, and even then, Clark could be arguably as good or better than some of the “greats” that have been listed, as it isn’t an easy “apples to apples” comparison when you take into account supporting cast, opponents/strength of schedule, etc.
Of course that’s one of the things that makes football so great. It stirs up debate and conversation, especially when evaluating individual players, as it is a true team sport filled with role players, and not easy to figure out the criteria that determines a good player (unlike baseball where it is VERY easy). For example, you could have the absolute greatest QB ever on your team, but if he doesn’t have a line to protect him, a RB to take the attention off of him, or the WRs to catch the ball, and people will think he’s a terrible QB. On the other hand you could have a mediocre QB who just doesn’t make big mistakes, and hands the ball off to a superstar RB and people will generally recall them more fondly.
So anyway, you can have your opinion that Clark is the Xth best QB in PSU history, but what exactly did the QBs who you say are “greats” do that Clark didn’t?
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 3, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
DC was an above average QB that racked up some insane stats but he also played some garbage teams.
Don’t forget he also didn’t run the traditional PSU system, I remember going to game in the 80/90’s and PSU never used the shotgun. We were much more of a running team not the spread HD of today.
Its tough to compare his stats to other PSU great QBs, the systems were very different.
HAHS circa 93' "Football is 1/2 Offense, 1/2 Defense, and 1/2 Special teams".
True jpg144
But its like comparing different time spans in baseball…pre/post roid era.
How many pass attempts does DC have compared to other PSU greats? That is an interesting stat I would like to know.
Who knows, maybe it is close but I would guess he had more attempts than any…by a large amount.
that is an intersting point about systems
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Jan 3, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
well, I think someone brought up that he also had the highest completion %
so he still probably would have set the same records with the same # of attempts (depending on what the YPA woulda been, of course)
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 3, 2010 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
JuggerNitt
Its like Allen Iverson and the amount of shots he takes per game.
Sure, he scored alot of point but he also took a s-load of shot to get those points.
I am guessing DC had abotu 750ish attempts in the last 2 years. He ran a different offense than most PSU QB’s that we are comparing stats/legacy. I don’t have the time to pull everyone’s numbers of pass attempts but if he threw a few hundred more times than anyone else considered to be PSU great then HE SHOULD hold most of the records.
No?
Exactly
Consider the following:
We’ve played a LOT of tomato cans out of conference
The big ten has been poor for the past two years
We’ve completely changed ot offensive system (this was the biggest differentiator of Clark vs PSU QBs of the past)
Based on this, Clark’s numbers are going to be eye popping. But, over the course of his career he was 4-4 against AP top 25 teams (final ’08 AP poll and current ’09 poll) and 0-3 against top ten teams (USC, Iowa ’09, OSU ’09).
In his one year at QB, MROB was 3-0 against AP top 25 teams, 1-0 vs top ten teams. Fairly or unfairly, as a QB, you’re judged more on Ws and Ls than anything else…and MROB wins that category.
The tomato can argument is lame.
We have always played soup cans. Always. We may have played a couple more but its not like our old schedules were comparable to playing UF, USC, Texas, and Bama OOC this year.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
Recent??
Colgate 1980, Brown 1983, William and Mary 1984. Not exactly top echelon programs. We also scheduled several MAC schools…Ohio, Kent State, Toledo (OMG)…when the MAC was a lower level division. Although back then, Miami of Ohio (we didn’t play them) in those days could play with many D-1 (as they called them then).
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi
shhhh, brd119 likes to say things without actually knowing what he's talking about
don’t burst his bubble
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 4, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
2009-Eastern Illinois
2008-Coastal Carolina
2007-no 1AA opponent
2006-Youngstown St
2005-no 1AA opponent
2004-no 1AA opponent
2003—no 1AA opponent
2002-no 1AA opponent
2001—no 1AA opponent
2000-no 1AA opponent
1999-no 1AA opponent
1998—no 1AA opponent
1997-no 1AA opponent
1996-no 1AA opponent
1995-no 1AA opponent
1994-no 1AA opponent
1993-no 1AA opponent
1992—no 1AA opponent
1991-no 1AA opponent
1990-no 1AA opponent
yeah, I have no clue. None at all.
So
No response to PaJoe?
Penn State has always played cupcakes. We played Cinci in the 80s and they were absolute garbage. Probably worse than Eastern Illinois.
FCS is used more now because the FBS cupcakes were charging too much. Playing an FCS team is not some stain on your school’s legacy. Alabama and Florida have more in common than being SEC schools. Alabama and Texas have more in common than playing for the national title.
As long as we play a good non-conference opponent (which we usually make an effort to do, contrary to accusations), FCS teams will happen. The only way to eliminate this fact is to get rid of the 11th game.
Complaining about FCS games when a very tough non-con opponent is on the schedule (like, I don’t know, Alabama) is pointless and usually left to fans who just want to complain.
Joe knows bowl games.
by ReadingRambler on Jan 5, 2010 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
I gave my response
Look, there’s a reason Division 1 was divided into FBS (1) and FCS (1AA). While FCS upsets over FBS teams do happen, I believe them to be very rare (trying to dig up the data), even though Appy St. over Michigan sticks out in everyone’s mind.
I think you could make the argument that the top 3 FCS teams could beat the bottom 10 or so FBS teams, but I’ve made the statement before and I’ll make it again….there is no excuse to scheduling an FCS team…none. I’ve discussed the money issue before and the math simply doesn’t add up. You can schedule a FBS opponent for nearly what you can schedule an FCS opponent for (just look up what PSU and other Big Ten teams are paying out) , and by the time you consider attendance (tickets), parking, concessions, etc, the revenue difference between an FCS team and an FBS team are negligible. What is not negligible is the impact to your strength of schedule and reputation when you play an FCS team.
Using the attached database and links, here’s what I’ve found
here's what you are leaving out
the teams that PaJoe had mentioned (and some others through the history)
and you are ignoring the fact that we aren’t playing LESS games against FBS schools, but when the 12 game was added (for $$$ reasons) it gave every school an extra game, which virtually every school (at least any big time BCS school) is using to play cupcakes (for $$$ reasons), most of which (for the 12th game) are coming from the FCS (for $$$ reasons). Do you really think it makes a difference if you are playing a team like Eastern Michigan or a team like Youngstown State? Neither team has any significant chance against a BCS powerhouse school.
As for the money issue, maybe I gotta start hanging with you if you think $400-500 thousand dollars is a negligible amount. The cupcake fodder from the FBS has realized it is a valuable commodity and are starting to charge around $800,000 to $1 million to come play. Heck, from that link you posted I clicked the first link to LSU and saw that even Appalachian State is charging $750k. Know what we payed Coastal Carolina? $450k. What did Texas Tech pay Massachusetts? $300k. And so on.
You talk about this cost of reputation, but seriously, for our reputation to be hurt by playing these teams we would have to be the exception, with all the other comparable programs (ie BCS schools, especially big name ones) not playing a FCS school, but that just isn’t the case. Looking through that link I’m finding it hard to find any school that doesn’t schedule pretty much the exact same way Penn State does.
Conference schedule + 1 big OOC game a year + 1 or 2 mid-major or bottom barrel BCS teams + 1 FCS school.
Heck, there are some teams that have scheduled 2 FCS schools in one year.
The reason Penn State’s schedule has been criticized isn’t because of these FCS schools we’ve scheduled, but because the “big game” for the past 3 years was Syracuse and a piss poor Notre Dame team, and in 2005 we played South Florida, Cincinnati and Central Michigan, all combined with the fact that since OSU screwed the pooch in the 2006 and 2007 title games, the reputation of the Big Ten has been terrible.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 5, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not ignoring anything actually
and I well aware of the who, why, how much associated with adding an extra game. I get that.
My argument is you can find EASY opponenets that are at least FBS calibur. There is absolutely no need to schedule an FBS opponent, none.
$400K itslef is not negligible, but like I said, considering the thousands of additional fans at a SYR game versus an EIU game, and the additional parking, concessions, ticket sales, the differences are negligible. Just 2,000 additonal fans X ($60/ticket + $20 in parking + $20 in concessions) is $200K.
I agree that not having a nice marquee game has made the fan base more sensitive to the FCS games. But there is still no excuse. It doesn;t benefit the players, fans or the university
we didn't sell a single extra ticket for Syracuse than we do for EIU
so that 0 extra fans X $60/ticket. Though there would be some extra revenue in gameday parking and concessions…but who buys $20 in concessions, and parking is usually split amongst 2-4 people, so I’ll give you $5 in parking and $5 in concessions on average per person. this becomes a whopping $20k extra for every additional 2000 fans that show up.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 6, 2010 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
Florida
2009 – Charleston Southern
2008 – Citadel
2007 – no 1AA opponent
2006 – Western Carolina
2005 – no 1AA opponent
2004 – no 1AA opponent
2003 – Floridan A&M
2002 – 1991 – no 1AA oppnent
1990 – Furman
1989 – no 1AA opponent
1988 – Montanta State AND Indiana State
I don’t recall hearing how Florida has such a weak schedule
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 5, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
That's because Florida plays in the SEC
AND has a conference championship game
so again, this argument isn't about scheduling a FCS school
it is about playing in a perceived “weak” conference. And all of this is moo anyway, as the only thing that perception matters for is the MNC game, and if you go undefeated in a BCS conference, and there aren’t 2 other undefeated teams from other BCS conferences, then you will be in the game anyway. If not, then playing Eastern Illinois instead of playing Eastern Michigan or Florida International or whomever is going to make absolutely zero difference.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 6, 2010 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
in Clark's first year
he was 3-2 against top 25 teams, and 1-1 against top 10 teams. So in a 1 to 1 comparison of first year starting, Clark and MRob had the same number of wins against the same “category” of ranked teams. 3 against top 25, 1 against top 10. MRob also never played against a team anywhere near as good as the USC team we played.
MRob lost to unranked Michigan, Clark lost to Iowa, who would end the season ranked. I don’t think anyone here believes that the 2005 PSU team would have beaten the 2005 or 2008 USC team, either.
If Clark only played his first year, he would be looked at as favorably as MRob. Who knows what would have happened if MRob stayed around another year. Morelli went 9-4, so let’s say MRob somehow gets us 2 more wins (we lost to 10-3 ND, MNC bound, undefeated regular season, 12-1 OSU, 12-2 Michigan with their sole regular season loss to undefeated regular season OSU, and 12-1 Wisconsin). I’m not sure which of those teams we would have beaten, even if we DID have MRob, but let’s be very generous and give him 2 wins.
So MRob in his second year would have been 10-2 regular season…sounds familiar. He would have had pretty much the same number of quality wins and losses as Clark did. We would have faced a much tougher team than the Tennessee team we faced, so maybe we win that, maybe we lose, in which case MRob would have had a WORSE overall record than Clark (and this is even giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying we would have won 2 or 4 against the teams mentioned earlier).
But yeah, MRob is clearly leaps and bounds better than Clark. Good thing we didn’t play any tomato cans OOC such as 6-6 South Florida, 4-7 Cincinnati, or 6-5 Central Michigan in 2005, otherwise you might have to discount some of those wins, as well…
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 4, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
MRob also never had the talent on offense that Clark has.
MROB had 3 freshman WRs, Hunt and Smolko.
Clark had 3 Sr Wrs (then Moye, Zug and Powell), Royster and Gods Gift.
I don’t think there’s a comparison in talent.
The 2005 Nittany Lions had the 17th toughest schedule (Sagarin) in the country. 2008 strength of schedule was 63rd, and 2009 was 80th. So you’re WAYYYY off here.
Where exactly am I way off?
I said nothing to the effect of 2005 being a harder schedule than 2008, just that USC was tougher than any of the teams we faced in 2005. What I was saying that if MRob was around for another year (not to mention how terrible he looked in 2003 and 2004, but we kindly forget that), he likely would have racked up more losses, similar to the kind Clark had in 2009
MROB had 3 freshman WRs, Hunt and Smolko.
Clark had 3 Sr Wrs (then Moye, Zug and Powell), Royster and Gods Gift.
Yeah, and those 3 freshman WRs turned out to be really good (in large part because of MRob teaching them the routes and such). Maybe I would give you points for that argument if those 3 didn’t turn out to be 3 of the best WRs PSU has ever seen. I will at least grant you that Clark had the same set, albeit more experienced WRs.
But you really don’t see a comparison in talent? And don’t forget that 2009, Moye, Zug, and Powell were all first year starters, and arguably less talented than those “3 freshman WRs”
But way to actually ignore any point I actually made in my post and start rambling off in another direction.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 4, 2010 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
More
If Clark only played his first year, he would be looked at as favorably as MRob.
I think this is your best point. I brought up SOS because of this sarcastic diatribe
But yeah, MRob is clearly leaps and bounds better than Clark. Good thing we didn’t play any tomato cans OOC such as 6-6 South Florida, 4-7 Cincinnati, or 6-5 Central Michigan in 2005, otherwise you might have to discount some of those wins, as well…
Clark is the better pure passer, I won’t ever deny that, but he also had 4 years in the system as a QB, unlike MRob who was KR/PR/RB/WR/QB.
I don’t giving MRob 2 additional wins in your scenario is being too generous at all, especially considering the added dimension he brought as a VERY good running QB.
Yes those 3 FR WRs turned out to be three of our best, but they were 3 freshmen, and as FR, they weren’t near the talents they were as SRs.
To their benefit, Moye, Zug and Powell all had years in the system, unlike the freshmen trio.
To say there is no comparison is probably not fair, but to not recognize that MRob wasn’t playing with the same talent as Clark is silly.
You know someone has to be able to get the ball to that talent, right?
Look at Morelli, he had the same three WRs Clark had in 2008, but would you call those two years as good of successes as 2008 was? No. The difference? Clark.
2009
I see 2009 as the year that solidified Penn State as being all the way back as an elite program. 2005 and 2008 were obviously great, but if we had slipped back to mediocrity this year like 2006 and 2007, then we would have been a once every few years program. To lose what they did and still pull off an 11-2, possible top 10 (although probably not) season was pretty impressive.
I think we’re fitting in in the Big 10 better than ever. We’ve established some rivalries, aren’t Michigan’s bitch anymore, and look to be among the top teams in the conference for the long haul.
What is your definition of elite?
Mine is BCS bowl/conference champs every other or every 3 years. We sure aren’t there yet, and next year I expect 3 losses as a very green QB takes the helm. OSU is the elite program of the big ten right now, not PSU. We have a nice program, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not elite yet.
I agree we have really fit into the big ten well.
Wait, what?
We have 2 conference champs and 2 bcs games in the past 5 years. Which matches your definition of elite, then you say we arent.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
yeah, I was about to point out the same thing
Big 10 champs in 2005, BCS bowl bound. 3 years later, 2008, Big 10 champs and BCS bowl bound. 1 year later, had a shot at at least co-Big 10 champ, and had a shot at a BCS bowl. We are also in the top 10 in win % over the past 10 years (actually I think a bit higher, like 7 or 8th).
But then again, brd119 has already showed a pattern of making claims not actually based in reality, and using those claims as proof for his side of the debate (which isn’t necessarily the wrong side of the debate, since if there was a clear cut side there wouldn’t be a debate in the first place). But yeah, I’m going to go ahead and keep on “respecting” brd119’s opinions on all things Penn State football, since he clearly puts together well thought out and supported arguments, and has gone a long way towards generating credibility and respect.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 4, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still thinking in terms of the decade
and I’m thinking next year will be rough. I think we are back to achieving our annual top 15 status, but I don’t think we’re ready to compete with the USCs, FLAs, Texas’s, Bama’s of the world yet….yet.
Greatest QB ??
The greatest QB is in the eye of the beholder. Is it the QB skills or results (wins)?
We can have an intelligent discussion comparing skills but the results will depend on the people he had playing with him. Robinson took a losing team and carried them on his shoulders, made them believe in themselves, for a magical season. Clark already had a supporting cast.
In the skills department I think Clark (when given time) was one of the most accurate passers in PSU history. He tore Wisconsin apart in 2008. The pass to Powell in the pouring rain at the start of this years Iowa game will live in my memory forever. He could put touch on the ball to loop it over the under cover defender.
But greatness is measured by if you win and Clark didn’t win 4 of his biggest games.
The question to be asked is was it his fault or did he have the talent behind him to pull the wins out. That will always be the debate. Against Iowa in 2008 wasn’t it as much on the defense to win that game as Clark. We were supposed to have a stud defense but they let Iowa drive 50 yards to kick the winning field goal. Many hold Clark responsible for the loss.
Then in this discussion is the Devlin affect. Some believed he was the better QB and hold him in higher esteem even though he never started a game at Penn State. Its as though he would have never made any of the mistakes that Clark did and that we would have won those 4 games we lost. Kind of like the backup QB is always better. When he left the cries become greater. Devlin admirers even stating Devlin will be the higher drafted QB. Based on this year at Delaware I’m not sure he will be drafted.

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