Something tells me this article is going to create a bit of a stir.
In November 2005, Steve and I flew to Ohio State to talk to receiver Santonio Holmes. We met him outside the football building, and he said, "Listen, I want to save you the time. We don't need to meet. I've been taking money from [an agent] the last couple years, and he's been taking care of my family too."
over 1 year ago
jesse.
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Hey jesse.
Maybe you found something to talk about. Maybe we all did.
"I do not have enough energy to scream, so I will sit here until this is over or until the middle of the 4th quarter when I will leave so I can miss traffic."
The worst part is that none of this is surprising anymore.
"I do not have enough energy to scream, so I will sit here until this is over or until the middle of the 4th quarter when I will leave so I can miss traffic."
Obviously, it's not totally suprising.
But the extent and nature of it is kind of chilling. Almost like steriods in cycling, where there are those that are cheating, and those that are cheating alot. If the rules are enforced, how many seasons just got wiped out? Ohio State’s co-Big Ten championship, Washington State’s Rose Bowl, just to name a few.
You almost want to punch the guy for not letting you think that it’s just a few bad apples anymore. It kind of paints the whole sport as dirty. I don’t like it.
Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.
And which is worse: this or the seeming apathy about concussions?
They’re both connected by money.
"I do not have enough energy to scream, so I will sit here until this is over or until the middle of the 4th quarter when I will leave so I can miss traffic."
by ReadingRambler on Oct 12, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate the apathy about concussions [although I bet you knew that].
Nobody knows a fu#$ing thing about concussions as they relate to adults, and as they relate to children, we may never know anything for sure. It bears repeating concussions are to the NFL what cancer is to the cigarette industry. The end of it. Not now, but eventually.
The NFL just lets those guys wail away on each other, ignoring the fact that they while they have the luxury of $800 helmets, that fourth grade Avonworth Eagles Football Team doesn’t. They also have an insurance salesman for a head coach and no athletic trainers. Oh yea, and the kids all think they’re Heinz Ward.
You know, I recenlty had a conversation with my ex-wife about whether or not we’d let our son play football. I intiated it, and I’m so close to voting no that it actually scares me some. It’s losely coreographed violence, that seems to bring out the worst in a fair amount of the people that surround it [coaches, parents, fans]. I’m just not so sure about football anymore.
Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.
by jesse. on Oct 12, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I believe
Tuesday Morning Quarterback on ESPN, Gregg Easterbrook (who generally sounds like a pompous d*ck a lot of the time but I end up reading anyway) let his kids play football, but only flag football until age 12-13. Seems like that was when the main part of the formative stages of brain development are complete. Or something like that.
"He's a beast. But so am I. So let the beasting begin."
Easterbrook is way out in front on a lot of things.
My guess is my last though when an asteroid hits the earth killing us all will be; “crap, Easterbook was right, we should have been concerned about near earth objects, and you should never punt”.
I mean his solution is sound, but there is tackle football being played all throughout this county (not to mention Ohio, Texas, Florida, etc.). I’m not sure that flag football is even an option, and it sure as hell would help if the NFL started taking the lead on these issues.
Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.
Not brain development
but when the pieces of the skull fully fuse together. If I had a kid I wouldn’t let him play tackle football until he hit high school.
My two cents.
I don’t know what to think about the sport either. I now I’ve grown from not caring about the NFL to something that borders on hatred. I still love the lessons from the sport, and I know that my two favorite college football programs give a crap about teaching their players and the threat of concussions and head injuries, but I also know the good guys are swimming against the tide and football itself is probably swimming against the tide. Money and power are the most important factors right now, and so I guess even Congress wouldn’t do anything about the nature of the sport if they felt there would be no gain for them.
More than anything, I just don’t know.
Also, long story short, I am not prone to discussing philosophy, but I believe it’s obvious that football, like most things we create, is subject to basic aspects of humanity. At a deeper level, football’s representation of so many ideals, wrongs and goods and ability to teach so much is what makes it so enthralling. 1 dollar says Joe Paterno thought of this long ago and is able to explain it much more easily than I can.
"I do not have enough energy to scream, so I will sit here until this is over or until the middle of the 4th quarter when I will leave so I can miss traffic."
by ReadingRambler on Oct 12, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know...
There is an argument to be made that at least the NFL is honest. The players are well compensated, the health insurance is top notch (seriously), and while the pension benefits aren’t as great as you think, they vest after three years.
There’s no “yeah, but I guess, techincally, Pete Carroll was preparing you for the future, and you had a chance to get an education, so, ummm, yeah, we don’t owe you anything” going on in the league.
I mean, if major college football is a cesspool, that’s never going to be cleaned up, where is the advantage in that.
Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.
I'm gonna transition into meathead-jock mode here for a minute...
….then don’t play football, watch football, or have your kids play football. I guess if enough people do that, the sport will die, fine. I don’t see that happening anytime soon though. The pro version of the sport is just peaking, college too.
There’s lots of dangerous, high paying jobs out there. The difference is, football is entertainment, and we all love to watch it.
Yep, and everybody loved to smoke too...
You don’t think that the lawyers are going to get involved in this one way or another? How far away are we from a time where the doctors default answer on football is; “it’s dangerous, and we don’t recomend that children of any age play it”.
I’m not on a one man crusade against football, but shit, how am I doing my job as a parent if I don’t seriously weigh the pros and cons of letting the kid play this sport? Especially knowing full well that none of the youth leagues that exisit have anything but the most rudimentary understanding of what the symptoms of a concussion are, and it would cost me nearly a weeks take home pay to put the kid in safest helmet available.
My concern is that football is a “dangerous high paying job”. My concern is that for the vast majority of the people who play it, it’s a dangerous hobby, played by children, and we have no idea what the long term health consequences of it are.
Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.
I think little kids playing football is a symptom of our society's love of the game not a prerequisite.
I don’t think concerned parents keeping their kids away from the game is enough to kill the sport. Just look at mixed martial arts. That sports is growing at a huge rate and I doubt there are many parents who would let their kids participate in it at a young age.
by VVeRPennState on Oct 12, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Lots of people STILL love to smoke.
Okay, i’m not a parent (I hope to be one day soon), I’m probably not coming at this from the same perspective as you (actually, I’m definitely not). But where does it stop? Riding a bike? Running?
I certainly don’t advocate putting a child in harm’s way, but I just don’t see where it ends. People have been playing the sport for generations.
Lawyers can find there way into everything, but I’m pretty sure a waiver is signed when kids play ball, it would seem to end there.
People from generations past didn’t know the extent of the dangers of concussions or the possible risk of getting chronic traumatic encephalopathy from something as seemingly trivial as blocking the guy in front of you for thirty minutes.
Also, football was forced to make changes by Teddy Roosevelt and it stopped right there.
"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."
by ReadingRambler on Oct 12, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
G.I. Joe said ‘knowing is half the battle.’ Where brain injuries are concerned (big important distinction: concussions being only one aspect of damage to the brain), the chronological issues are thus:
1. Information: we barely know 3% of the battle
2. PR climate: favorable, at least enough now to not shutdown or cover up the pursuit of said information, and some very interested advocates and doctors currently actively involved in said pursuits
3. Choices: still free, for parents anyway. Rents can currently equivocate the choice of playing football with riding bikes if they like
4. Regulation: this is farthest away, chronologically; will take some big information to arrive to combat the money/entertainment machine enough for regulation to enter the picture
For my part as a parent, I’ve seen enough to make choices for my family, but not enough for me to proselytize in any direction for others (big grey area to work out wrt to my 9yo nephew playing now for my brother the coach). If I ever get the sense that #2 is changing, my stance and volume will as well. For now, from what I can tell, things are progressing as they should.
My team is on the field.
If you think about it....
How does a reputable doctor tell you that it’s safe to play football. It’s safe to smoke a cigarette, two even. Hell you can smoke your entire life and never feel an ill effect. Doesn’t the doctors medical advice, however precautionary, have to be that the sport isn’t safe for kids?
The vast majority of football is played by children. I’m not trying to proselytize, I just think it’s an interesting topic.
Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.
I would rather have this discussion over beers or coffee, cuz I think it would be a lot more fun and we'd be able to express our points a lot better.
But I’ll give it a try over the internets anyway.
How can a reputable doctor endorse wrestling, lacrosse, or any other contact sport? Motocross? Any “action” hobby/sport has inherent risks.
I never played football until the 7th grade, and that was only because I was about 30 pounds over the weight limit in 5th and 6th grade. Looking back though, I think that is about the right time for kids to start playing. I agree that there is no point with 8-12 year olds running around knocking heads.
I don't know the numbers for any sports
but they exist (at least to some extent, or could if anyone cared enough to compile it), and if you put an actuary in charge of assessing the risk/benefits of the different sports, you could get a pretty good indication of which ones may be a bit too dangerous and which ones are only moderately dangerous.
Lacrosse has risks, but from what I’ve read, they are significantly less than that of football. Heck, supposedly rugby is “better” than football when it comes to certain major injuries (but “worse” with others).
by The JuggerNitt on Oct 13, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
coming in way late on this discussion
and haven’t read all the way through, BUT…
what fraction of your 60" 3D TV would that helmet cost?
Of course I get what you are saying, as that is a lot of money for a piece of equipment used to play one sport occasionally (and maybe only for one year).
by The JuggerNitt on Oct 13, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
About 35% of it....
But he also gets to watch Monsters vs. Aliens in 3D. It’s not like the boy doesn’t get anything out of the TV.
Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.
Being close to the TP situation......
and this is no BS story, the recruitment went well beyond getting the #1 Jersey, playing only QB and right away, but goes into the parents making the final decision…the Dad wanted PSU and the Moms wanted tO$U…..I have been saying for years, nay screaming, that you must follow the paths of the parents since he went there…..jobs, places of employment, automobiles and who is the MoneyMan….but of course, who wants to come to little old Jeannette,Pa to research a 3 year old story…..this crap just happens ALL of the time…..I’m just sayin’ that this kind of story is way more the norm than not.
"Cool Story Bro" time
Coworker of mine is from Ohio, said he was visiting his buddy up in Columbus. His buddy had an apartment on a hill that overlooked whatever polluted river runs through that dump. They were out on the back patio, smacking golf balls into the water. Guy next door was moving in…big flat screen HDTV, stereo equipment, etc…it was the freshman, TP, moving into an off-campus apartment with a load of expensive stuff.
Normally I’d take this story with a big grain of salt, but my coworker is a huge Buckeye fan and has no reason to tell such a fib.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
just read the story
anybody else get the “jilted lover” vibe from this guy. seems like his thinking was “ok, if youre going to shaft me, im going to blow the led off this thing” cant really say i blame him though
The first rule of Zombieland: Cardio. When the zombie outbreak first hit, the first to go, for obvious reasons... were the fatties.
oh id be willing to bet most of it is true. it makes me feel dirty just thinking about it. not surprising in the slightest. plus, i know its a hot button issue right now but it really makes it seem that more impressive that “clean” programs can be competitive.
The first rule of Zombieland: Cardio. When the zombie outbreak first hit, the first to go, for obvious reasons... were the fatties.
how do we really know which programs are clean and which aren't, though?
I really want to believe that PSU is clean, and I do believe that they are one of the best at trying to be clean, but honestly, how do we know that none of the NFL talent guys aren’t taking any $?
by The JuggerNitt on Oct 13, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes it doesn't matter what the motivation is.
Its not like Jose Conseco was trying to save baseball with his book. But it was what got the ball rolling on all the changes to MLB’s drug policies.
by VVeRPennState on Oct 12, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Thankfully, there were no Penn State players in his confession.
I don’t think I could handle hearing that PSU players were taking money during this season. I’m not so naive to not think it goes on, but I just don’t want to hear about it. I don’t think I could handle another scandal like the Curtis Enis “suit” debacle.
"If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score?" Vince Lombardi
i know most of the cases are kept hush hush
but isnt it amazing that Enis is really the only case that has ever come out? im sure he wasnt the only one but when you see usc, the whole unc team, the mid 90s seminoles, etc…it is kind of cool. at least for me, it makes me stick my chest out a little more..maybe im just bloated on blue kool-aid
The first rule of Zombieland: Cardio. When the zombie outbreak first hit, the first to go, for obvious reasons... were the fatties.
My favorite quote...
…without question.
“I also justified it by remembering that the schools and the NCAA were making money while the players, many of whom came from poor families, weren’t getting anything but an education, which many of them didn’t take seriously.”
Oh, really, Luchs? And whose fault was that? The NCAA’s? The school’s? Or you, because without you paying their bills, they would’ve had to work hard to get that education to do something with their life in case football didn’t work out?
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
I recently had the oppotunity to review the academic transcript
of a player you’ve heard of who went to a school you’ve heard of. It wasn’t pretty, and it was exactly what you’d expect.
Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.
Oh really?
Was it an honor roll student who majored in finance and graduated in 3 years?
/posluszny’d
"He's a beast. But so am I. So let the beasting begin."
Not at all surprising, but absolutely disappointing.
Every one of my friends thinks I’m totally crazy and that I should just accept that college football lost its amateur status a long time ago. I buy that it happened, I’m just not buying into the fact that it’s the way it should be.
Schools should give their student athletes every opportunity to be successful – personalized tutors, schedulers, study hours, mentors, etc. etc. etc. The whole bit. Once that’s done, it’s on the kid to be successful. The problem is that there are lots of schools that don’t do that.
I’m sick of pretending that football players at major universities are being taken advantage of by the system. Any of us would trade our college careers for theirs in a split second. Sure, they don’t get paid in cash. Instead, they get free tuition, room and board at a major university, often times at the cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars. They get plenty of help academically. They’re stars on campus. Even the 3rd string kicker is a big shot. They’re idolized by millions of people and get the experience of a lifetime.
If they don’t take advantage of it, that’s their fault. And guys like Luchs are just making excuses for them.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Oct 12, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
You took the high road by not outright mentioning
it so I’ll take the low – these guys are hip deep in the sects – like on a Rockstar level.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
the hard part is
while free tuition is great and all, to some of these kids it is like saying, “here, I’ll give you free admission to a Barbara Streisand concert”. Sure, some people would value that, but even if the admission is worth thousands to a true fan, to them it has no real value.
Now the Rockstar “sects”….that I think I could get into ;-)
by The JuggerNitt on Oct 13, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
It's just frustrating
to those of us who do have to pay. I would punch Jack Crawford in the face for his scholarship (and then I would run like hell, because he’s giant and he scares me).
We can’t really put too much blame on them, and I know a lot of players really do appreciate it. I just wonder if anyone could ever appreciate it enough.
"We have the plainest uniforms you can make. We know who we are. We are Penn State, and that's something special."
So much THIS.
Although I guess it’s not so much frustrating – I never expected any kind of real financial aid during my PSU years, so I never really missed it. But it is why student-athletes are held to a higher standard than other students. It’s why it matters when they get in trouble for underage drinking in season. They’ve been given a tremendous gift, so how hard is it to not drink for 4 months? How hard is it to stay out of trouble?
You probably can never appreciate it enough, but you have to have enough respect not to blow it.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Oct 13, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
but what do you say to the kids who don't care about the academic side of things
and are only playing college ball because it is the de facto minor leagues for the professional sports?
Not saying it is right, but if I was tremendously gifted athletically and practically guaranteed a shot at the NFL, I don’t know how hard I’d try or how hard I’d care about the academics side of things, either. The only real motivation for these guys is to avoid suspensions so they can actually play the game, but like they said in the movie Office Space, that’s only gonna make them try just hard enough to not get fired/suspended.
The real motivation, and those NCAA commercials sorta do it, is to show how small the chances of having a successful pro career are, and to take advantage of the free education so that you can have a good fall back plan if/when you leave the league. But then again, we’re dealing with 18-22 yr old pre-madonnas (god it hurts doing some of these memes) who probably don’t think further than where the next party is at, and how they’re gonna spend their millions from the NFL.
by The JuggerNitt on Oct 14, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I have a suggestion...
If you lose a player for academic reasons, you lose the scholarship until the player should have graduated. If you recruit a non-qualifier, and he doesn’t get into school, you lose it for four years.
The really insidious thing about grey-shirting is not that it certain players think they have a spot but don’t, it’s that it actually encourages schools to recruits that are marginal from an academic standpoint. If you take 25 guys for 20 spots, your not going to recruit all 4.0 students, otherwise how are you going to get to right number? So instead you recruit all guys near the minimum socre and let nature take it’s course.
Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.
I like this suggestion.
Non-qualifiers don’t really exist anymore, but the point is valid. If kids are on the border and never make it to school, that scholarship shouldn’t be used.
I think greyshirting is a fine tool when used properly. Jordan Norwood was greyshirted. So was Glenn Carson. But it is open to being abused, and that’s what the NCAA should be patrolling.
The new NCAA seems to be taking a proactive stance on abuses by college programs. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them begin to get involved in oversigning, particularly if it becomes a worse PR issue than it already is.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Not even really talking about grey-shirting
More along the lines of what the SEC does in quantity, which over book the classes by several players a year and wait for the requisite number of kids to flunk out. There was a story at LSU this year where two guys actually had their scholarships pulled, who were on the team already, because not enough guys flunked out.
That crap has to stop.
Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.
Absolutely. Have to be fair to the kids.
You know what else drives me crazy? When people say that coaches have to “live with their mistakes.”
You better have more than athletic ability to go on when you offer a kid a scholarship. There are plenty of guys who have never been starters on a college team who were excellent special teamers, great character guys, locker room leaders, morale, etc. Just because a kid doesn’t make the 2-deep doesn’t make him a wasted scholarship. There are a lot of ways to contribute to a football team.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
What do you say to a kid who plays college ball and doesn't care at all about academics?
Good luck in the CFL or UFL. Sure, it doesn’t offer the same exposure as college football, but there’s no additional demand either. You can just play football. If you’re tremendously gifted athletically, the NFL will find you like it’s found every other non-college star player that exists.
The NCAA and schools themselves need to be much more proactive in really getting it into these kid’s heads that there’s no such thing as a guaranteed shot in the NFL. There’s not even a guarantee of good money if you get drafted. Even good college players get cut. Happens all the time.
College football is still called college football, and it’s still run by the National Collegiate Athletic Association. Going to college means going to class, even if the kids don’t think about it. That’s why people like Paterno are so important. It’s true, kids can be dumb and don’t think about the benefits of an education. That’s why it’s up to the adults to drag a horse to water, so to speak. And if they don’t drink the water, it’s up to the adult to show them the door.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, Daryl Clark was one of the top five QB's PSU ever had.
He was Big Ten Offensive Player of the year, twice named first team all confrence. He made less than $1,000 from the NFL. And more than likely, he’ll never play a down.
Michael Robinson probably makes about 150K to 200K per year. Not chi chi beans, but he’s not retireing on it either, even if he plays three or four more years, which is unlikely.
You can be a really good college football player and never see a penny from the league.
Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.
I loved DC17.
I mean, he wasn’t perfect, but damned if he didn’t love it here. And that’s definitely something I can identify with. I love Penn State too.
"We have the plainest uniforms you can make. We know who we are. We are Penn State, and that's something special."
The minimum with 4-6 credited seasons is 630,000.
And he there is a defined benefit pension plan. It’s not great, but he is already eligible for over 1,000/month and full benefits once he hits 55. I’m not saying he’s rich, but you sold him a bit short.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 15, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I can understand that not everyone cares.
I just wish I could explain it to them.
"We have the plainest uniforms you can make. We know who we are. We are Penn State, and that's something special."
Crap is really going to hit the fan
When it comes out that Craig Krenzel actually majored in Communications
What was the hardest part about the transition from college to pros?
The paycut….Sir Charles Barkley
I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.
I always thought it was fishy
that Miami’s “second equipment manager” from the 80’s to the mid-2000’s was an HR specialist and a licensed CPA.
OK, I made that up. But someone had to be making sure the right checks were going to the right players.
Is there any proof at all that this is true?
I mean, I love OSU about as much as you all do, but it wouldn’t be fair to just throw crap their way for the hell of it. I hope it does work out for them. It just never seems fair when the entire program has to deal with a few people’s bad decisions, especially when the main culprit now is pretty much in the clear.
That said, wow. Another one? I thought we’d have to wait at least another few weeks.
"We have the plainest uniforms you can make. We know who we are. We are Penn State, and that's something special."
At the bottom of the article the list the people contacted to confirm the details of the story.
There are more no comments and confirmations than there are denials.
by VVeRPennState on Oct 12, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I realized after I posted.
Thanks, though. My fault for not reading thoroughly enough.
"We have the plainest uniforms you can make. We know who we are. We are Penn State, and that's something special."
Even if it is true,
I think the article says that the NCAA’s statute of limitations on these things is 4 years, and that the last of these happened in 2005.
And so we land, only to find
We never left the ground...
Yeah,
It really wouldn’t make a difference of Holmes said that someone gave him a pink-diamond encrusted grill. There isn’t anything the NCAA could do about it now, and I don’t know if they would even want to.
"We have the plainest uniforms you can make. We know who we are. We are Penn State, and that's something special."
All true.
Santanio Holmes also sent Jenn Sterger pictures of his penis.
by Tailgate Shogun on Oct 12, 2010 7:29 PM EDT reply actions
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