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Big Ten Preview: A Saturday without Joe

This Saturday will bring what many Penn State fans seem to be calling for after a 3-3 start and an embarrassing homecoming lose to Illinois: a Saturday in October without Joe Paterno on the sidelines. Of course, the lack of our bespectacled, cuffed, tie-laden octogenarian isn't because he's stopped coaching, but because the good guys got a week off to regroup before the second half of the season.

On Saturday, none of the coaches patrolling the sidelines for Big Ten teams will have won more games than any other college coach in Division 1 history. None will have a library named after them. None will have conceived of and executed a "grand experiment" to combine education and athletics. None will have goofy glasses; none will lack an email address; none will coach the great grandson of someone they coached fifty years ago; none will have been listed in the "pros" side of the list I made in deciding to matriculate at Penn State.

In the five days since the Illinois Incident, I've found two arguments about why Joe Paterno should no longer be the coach at Penn State to be the most compelling. First, Paterno no longer has the energy and enthusiasm to meet the demands of the head coach position at a major D-1 program. Second, under Joe Paterno, Penn State has failed to consistently compete in and win big games against the top teams for the better part of ten years. Both arguments boil down to stating that Penn State should find a new coach because they cannot compete at the level that the fans, alumni, players, etc expect with Joe Paterno at the helm. The irony, of course, is that Joe Paterno is responsible for those expectations. Beaver Stadium holds 110,000 people, Penn State competes in the Big Ten and is considered one of a handful of national college football programs because of one person. But what if that person can no longer do their job?

I know that every other Big Ten program would have likely fired their head coach if they had five years like Paterno did from 2000-2004. As we all know, Penn State tried to fire Paterno before the 2005 season, but Joe prevailed and restored order to the world. Until now.

Joe Paterno took a risk -- and continues to take a risk -- by holding his players to high standards in the classroom and in their personal lives. That risk has paid big dividends on the field and for the reputation of Penn State as a football team and as a university. Penn State now, presumably, has an opportunity to take a similar risk. We -- the fans, alumni, students -- can risk having an exceptional football team, can risks wins, by stating that we want Joe Paterno to be our coach for as long as Joe Paterno wants to be our coach. It's a risk that's similar to the risk inherent in the grand experiment. It assumes that there are things that are more important than wins and losses; it assumes that character and loyalty are paramount; it assumes that we are going to be different. And it assumes that can make us great.

Would any of the teams playing on Saturday extend that courtesy to their coach? Does it matter?

Onto the games and the gambling:

Star-divide

Arkansas State Red Wolves at Indiana Hoosiers (12:00, ESPNU)

Indiana -11; O/U 66.5

I thought these games were finished? Arkansas St. appears to be the Sun Belt version of Indiana - they have a strong passing attack and zero defense. Look for this one to go over.

Indiana 44 - Arkansas St. 24

Illinois Fighting Illini at Michigan St. Spartans (12:00, Big Ten Network)

60 and sunny; Michigan State -7; O/U 51

There's a good chance that this game, which features two teams playing well above what the experts expected pre-season, could be the best game of the year on the BTN. I don't think the Illini can handle the Spartans outside run attack, and playing their second straight road game makes things a little tougher. Both teams could have a bit of a letdown after emotional wins last week. I like Sparty here to win, but not cover.

Michigan St. 26 - Illinois 20

Minnesota Golden Gophers at Purdue Boilermakers (12:00, ESPN2)

Purdue -5.5; O/U 51

And just like that, Purdue could get off to a 2-0 start in the conference. Not so fast, my friend. This is one of Goldy's few chances to get a win, and I think they "shock the world" and do it.  Adam Weber blows up Purdue's secondary, and the Boilermakers dual-threat quarterback never really gets going.

Minnesota 27 - Purdue 24

Iowa Hawkeyes at Michigan Wolverines (3:30, ABC/ESPN)

60 and sunny; Iowa -3.5; O/U 53.5

If Denard Robinson and the Michigan offense had trouble getting points on the board against Sparty, why should they have better luck against a nasty, more aggressive, and better disciplined defense? Iowa might not have the most exciting offense in the league, but everybody scores on Michigan's defense. Ricky Stanzi might win the offense player of the week honors. Iowa covers going away. Pick of the week.

Iowa 31 - Michigan 10

Ohio State Buckeyes at Wisconsin Badgers (7:00, ESPN)

67 and Sunny; Ohio State -4; O/U 49

Over the course of the season, Ohio State has looked a lot more than four points better than Wisconsin. However, Saturday night's game at Camp Randall Stadium is only the second road test for the Buckeyes, who struggled against Illinois in Champaign Urbana two weeks ago. Add to that how difficult it is to win in Madison, and how crazy the crowd should be with a good 8 hours of pep in them, and remember that Wisconsin played their best game of the year last week against Minnesota, and maybe, just maybe the Badgers can knock off the number one team in the world. Maybe not.

Ohio State 24 - Wisconsin 13

BYE: Penn St. Nittany Lions, Northwestern Wildcats

Last Week 2-3 Against the Spread; 2-3 Picking Winners; Overall 4-6 ATS; 7-3 Picking Winners

Comment 283 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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The single biggest reason to look for Joe's retirement

Isn’t because of wins and losses, or what he’s done in the past vs. what he’s done in the present. The biggest argument is simply his health.

For all the talk about who/when/how the next HC comes about, the only thing Joe has affirmed is that 1. He’ll be the only one to make the decision and 2. He’ll definitely know exactly when it’s time, and it’s not time yet.

Well I don’t trust Joe to know exactly when his health will suddenly fail. He’s built his legacy on being a steadfast contrarian. That’s why he’s the greatest HC who’s ever coached college football. It’s also a concerning situation, because those two things are in direct conflict with a smooth transition.

Honestly we’re in a down year, but the team isn’t going off the rails, not by a long shot; we didn’t lose to Kent State or even Temple… But if you want to see a program go off the rails, have a sudden death of a HC in the middle of a season with no transition plan and a staff full of D-1 head coaches who all think they should or could be our HC. Watch to see how many kids want to commit to a program in true turmoil like that.

McGloin Despite Them

Preaching the McGospel since Aug. 2nd, 2010

by millzners on Oct 14, 2010 10:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Well, then it comes down to this:

Do you trust Joe Paterno to make the right decision on the matter?

I do.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

No. Not at all.

--
@scrappled
Slow States - Lacking SEC speed since, like, a month ago.

by Run Up The Score on Oct 14, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's the knowing sublect / known object problem.

Any hope of objectivity (such as there is anyway) breaks down when the subject and object become one in the same.

"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway

by SubLime on Oct 14, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, that doesn't surprise me.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personal attack.

--
@scrappled
Slow States - Lacking SEC speed since, like, a month ago.

by Run Up The Score on Oct 14, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know.

--
@scrappled
Slow States - Lacking SEC speed since, like, a month ago.

by Run Up The Score on Oct 14, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

All the things that made him great

Will make him terrible at closing the book on his career. He’s stubborn. He’s not interested in what other people think. And above all, he works his hardest when people tell him can’t do something. All those things helped make him the greatest college football coach ever, but I’m afraid all those things will also make his retirement ill-fated.

It’s not a rational argument that because Joe has done so much for the university and for the football program that he’ll handle retirement with as much success. He knows what’s best for Penn State: that he keep coaching. Afterall he’s the best thing that ever happened to Penn State football. So by that logic, how would retirement help Penn State football?

I love the guy but I think his greatest strengths in his career become his greatest weaknesses in ending that career.

McGloin Despite Them

Preaching the McGospel since Aug. 2nd, 2010

by millzners on Oct 14, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s not interested in what other people think.

Do you know who kept Joe from taking the job with the Patriots or the Jets (I can’t remember which team it was)? It wasn’t Joe Paterno.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes.

And I can find other instances of Joe changing his mind when someone was vehemant about something.

To take the mindset that Joe doesn’t know what’s best for Penn State is a bridge too far for me.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I also believe it was Sue.

And my bet is that if Sue wanted Joe to retire, she would have spoken up long before now.

by jimbo2psu on Oct 14, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sue loves those grandkids

And I think she fears if Joe steps down Jay has to move to a MAC or D1AA school and then has to move and that means those grandkids move.

Grandparents love their grand children….

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I assume

That all parents love their children and their grand children.

I assume that people enjoy seeing their family as much as possible and when a son/daughter has to move across the country it’s not an easy thing.

That’s what I assume.

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wrong.

That’s the motivation behind your assumption. Your assumption seems to be that Sue would keep Joe beyond his healthy limits because she fears not seeing her children and grandchildren.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

I think the story is that Joe actually accepted the offer to coach the Patriots, and upon getting into bed, noticed Sue was crying, talking about how they really had everything they needed right there in State College and it wasn’t about the additional money he’d make by being an NFL coach.

"He's a beast. But so am I. So let the beasting begin."

by PSUtopia on Oct 14, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then he called the Patriots back and declined the offer

"He's a beast. But so am I. So let the beasting begin."

by PSUtopia on Oct 14, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe that they also offered him 10% of the entire team earnings

The team today is worth $1 Billion, which, yeah, that would be pretty awesome

Personal Attack- R. Aceto

by Bob Sacamano on Oct 14, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

But then

Jay Paterno would have coached Tom Brady…wait that’s not too bad of an alternative reality.

I’ll get the Delorian and see you guys in a few minutes

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

sounds like

that epic story of Animal House offering Donald Sutherland his choice of either 10% of the gross earnings or like $20K for his role in the move. Thinking it was going to be a bust, he took the lump sum instead. he passed on a small fortune.

by swiggy04 on Oct 14, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

he should of known it was going to be huge

i mean, anytime the entire cast and crew are drunk during shooting it should be a dead give away itll be a winner

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm with you and RUTS on this one.

Almost none of the greats go quietly. Bowden was forced out. Hayes was banned. Hayden Fry had to get prostate cancer. It’s not in these old-school guys’ make-up to just walk away. Hell, there are Alabama fans that say retirement is what killed Bear Bryant.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 14, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is also a certain Penn State head coach

that harbors that sentiment. I think he’s scared of retirement for that reason.

by jimbo2psu on Oct 14, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Russ Rose!

He’s destroying the program!

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

No long elite

Winning those national titles was in the past…his peers are winning more games….time to get a new coach…rick nuehisel….stickies…corner room

Did I cover it all?

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

buying a home in state college comes first.

House-hunting with Rick Neuheisel in State College since 2005.....

by Artiefufkin10 on Oct 14, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

He bought it

My Ex’s father was a relator whom was friends with the Suhey’s and he told me that the house was purchased in 2006…

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

but did you hear it at a tailgate?

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

that makes it more plausible.

House-hunting with Rick Neuheisel in State College since 2005.....

by Artiefufkin10 on Oct 14, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

It killed Jerry Dunn.

Wait, he’s still alive?!?

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 14, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

He changed his skin color and is still head coach at Penn State's basketball courts.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

LOL

House-hunting with Rick Neuheisel in State College since 2005.....

by Artiefufkin10 on Oct 14, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like witness protection

but with less chance of being noticed…

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 14, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

We have now hired Bruce Parkhill thrice.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've been operating under the assumption

that PSU hasn’t had a basketball coach since they moved into the Bryce-Jordan Center, but that the guy in the suit on the sideline is just in charge of ushering the players to their seats.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 14, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm the Magritte of posts.

“is this not a quote? are we really ever saying anything?”

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 14, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kyle, with respect to you and Adam Jacobi's mother, you're on the outside.

There is nothing you or I or any Penn State fan can say that will make a difference, so I choose to be optimistic because Joe is the greatest coach to ever live. Moreover, I believe it’s an honor to be a Pennsylvanian because of the greateness the state hs produced and Joe has done more for the people of Pennsylvania than a lot of other great men.

He’s not a cheater like Bowden and he still shows mental sharpness. He’s not a angry old man like Hayes.

People talk about his stubborn attributes and they seem to forget the changes he made to get us out of the dark ages.

So the only question is the health. And if the question is “Do you think Joe would make the right decision?”, I can’t see how I should answer with anything but “Yes.”

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

And with all respect to you and Pennsylvanians

I would say from my experience that people, especially the elderly, are not always able to make those decisions regarding their health because they often times lack the capability to, regardless of their character.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 14, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

And I believe we’ll be fine because, even if his mental faculties or whatever have you were to fail, he’s surrounded with others I trust.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then that's something different altogether

and in that respect, you’re right, I’m on the outside with that part of the equation.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 14, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

You both make excellent points though

I want this to end well, everyone desperately wants this to end well. But with every passing year I get more and more concerned…

McGloin Despite Them

Preaching the McGospel since Aug. 2nd, 2010

by millzners on Oct 14, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Coaching staff

I don’t think the game has passed Joe by or that he can’t continue to do the same things (coaching wise) he’s done for the last 5-10 years, which isn’t much compared to other HCs. What does bother me – and has for a while – is Joe’s inability to make changes to his staff. There are a few coaches on the team who don’t seem to be carrying their weight. See our prior discussions on the O-line, special teams, and strength and conditioning.
I think because of his loyalties, the age of those coaches, and the timing of an era coming to an end, Joe has refused to make some necessary changes to his coaching staff. It has hurt the team.
I believe everything goes back to the coaches:
1. They evaluate the H.S. talent, recruit that talent, and then grow that talent
-any failures on the field due to lack of speed, strength, conditioning, know-how, or GRRRIIIITTTT are a direct result of the coaches
2. They run the practice, call the plays and game plan
-any failures in properly run routes, blocking, poor clock management, play calling, etc. fall back on the coaches.
We can blame so and so for missing a block or dropping a pass – the bottom line is the coaches evaluated, recruited, worked with, and then made the decision to put that player on the field – the failure is the coaches, IMO. Sure the kids have accountability as well, but I feel most of the blame (and fame) should go back towards teh top.
That said, these are 18-19 year old kids, we have to expect mistakes. I applaud Joe’s loyalty and hope he stays as long as he wants. I just hope he is willing to make some changes now, as opposed to leaving a mess for whoever comes in next.

by emccomb1 on Oct 14, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

special teams

Joe just fired the special teams coach this off season

/snark

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well recruiting is kinda hit and miss

not saying that’s a great excuse, but sometimes you miss out on some kids or they don’t develop the way you want them to. Everyone has limitations. The coaching staff has managed to bring the talent level up at the skill positions, but now is having issues on the line. Is that just a product of our recruiting area, or a problem with the staff? Probably a mix of both.

I agree about the loyalty to his staff though. Another one of those “character traits that make him great, but are also hurting him”.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's so funny about that

Is I missed when that meme happened, but I know exactly who said it and in what context. Those are the finest memes — the ones you didn’t need to wittness the birth of to understand.

McGloin Despite Them

Preaching the McGospel since Aug. 2nd, 2010

by millzners on Oct 14, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, that doesn't surprise me at all.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Neither does your response

I just think it’s hard for ANYONE to make that decision.

Look at Willie Mays, Ali , Montana , etc etc. You never want to leave when you’re on top because you think you can keep going strong and showing how awesome you are. Then when you’re down you think it’s just a speed bump and you’ll be right back at the top of your game.

I don’t think anyone can really say that if they were Joe they would know when to step down. You’re doing the thing you love the most. Something you put your heart,sweat and tears into.

Your life mission has been to turn young men into awesome people that do things the right way..with honor, respect, etc. So to give that up…how can you give that up?

Joe can’t make the right decision on the matter because to him it’s not the WRONG decision.

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

You don't know any of that.

The point is that we’re all speculating. And to date, I have seen nothing that makes me think I shouldn’t trust Joe.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

How do you know

What empirical evidence shows that this will be any different than the others.

Joe has mentioned previously how Bear unfortunately passed away after his retirement.

Joe has mentioned time and time again that he doesn’t hunt/fish/travel/ or really do anything other than PSU football. It’s his life and passion…it’s a great life and passion but extremely one dimensional.

So if you look at these two things, what can you point to to say – Yea, Joe will know when to go. When this is arguably the hardest decision anyone would have to make career wise.

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, that's easy.

He’s Joe Paterno and I can’t think of one thing he’s done that harmed Penn State. He’s one of the greatest men currently alive and the greatest Pennsylvanian alive. I trust him more than my own grandfather. One season and one offseason of bad recruiting can’t change that. Talk to me after the Minnesota and Nortwestern games.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Right

So you’re going off of emotion…that’s understandable you have great respect and admiration for Joe, as do the rest of us.

Let’s toss the wins/losses away for a minute. At some point Joe is going to have to step down due to health reasons…the candle eventually runs out of wax and no matter how hard you try the flame goes out.

If you’re whole life (well minus college and childhood) has been Penn State…it’s been everything you know and love, how are you supposed to give it up.

Can you really say emotions aside that Joe can make the right decision for the program? What do you start saying to recruits (yes , this topic has been going on for 15 years) ?

At some point he can’t realistically make it through a whole recruiting class. Players want to know who their position coaches will be, who their head coaches will be, what the stability of the program will be.

Do you think Joe, knowing all we’ve discussed, will know when to step down? I just don’t see it…and I can’t see how he can make that choice. It’s all he knows, but believe me we could only be so lucky to live that type of life.

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

so youre saying that

he should be forced out like bowden? my question is, if its not up to joe…then how? and im not being snarky

/no snark

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

See there in lies the problem.

I wouldn’t want to be the one to force out Joe. How can anyone want to be that person, it’s like putting dad into the nursing home. You don’t want to but someone has to eventually do it.

Except he’s the father to a whole city and he’s the reason the shops are still there.

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

on a different note

i tell my parents that they needs to be nice to me or else into the home they go

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

they both post on here, though

will you change your name here, too? Perhaps jesse, (old people are easily fooled)

by The JuggerNitt on Oct 14, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, but they usually can't see very well either...

they might not notice the change. We’ll all be hyper-blogging by then anyway.

Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.

by jesse. on Oct 14, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's all emotion.

Can you name something that should tell me Joe isn’t trustworthy besides, “Well, that will be a really hard decision.”?

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nothing in his life compares to this decision , it’s apples and oranges. So short answer no.

I just don’t see how he can make this decision. So neither of us have anything other than gut instinct I guess.

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's Joe Paterno.

I think you and a lot of other people may just be underestimating him or overreacting to his usual stubbornness.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's stubborn

Which is his greatest asset and biggest downfall.

And in this case I think it becomes a downfall. Not wanting to admit you can no longer do the one thing you’ve dedicated your life to.

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm actually on the fence here on this issue but I'll argue with buk for the sake of it.

One consideration when you mention all of those other people, Montana, Mays, Ali, you can throw in Fry. None of them are Joe Paterno. None of them had the vested interest in the product like Joe has. Joe doesn’t sell PSU football as Joe Paterno, he sells it as PSU, period. Come to this school because it is great, not because of me. He evens tells the recruits that. The guys that stayed too long did it for selfish reasons. I can’t thing of anything selfish about the way Joe represents PSU. This is why I think he will make the correct decision.
That is all I’ll say, because I do see the chance of the other arguement……..

by BMAN13 on Oct 14, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see what you're saying

I guess we’ll agree to disagree or just call it a draw.

Either way, get your popcorn ready because it’ll be interesting

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

small difference

with those greats you analogize Joe with, and i see the point you’re making, but they had pretty sizable declines, Mays had about 4 or 5 years where he was a shell of himself, Montana was oft injured in his last 3 years. I think my biggest issue with the whole Joe must go movement is that the man is coming off 3 11 win seasons in 5 years, 3 top 10 finishes and 2 straight recruiting classes at the top of the country. its not like hes coming off some epic collapse. That is not directed at you per se, but i don’t want to be the fan of a team where we have one or two .500 seasons and everyone goes batshit crazy. If I wanted that Id go root for Notre Dame.

by swiggy04 on Oct 14, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

if Joe dies mid-season

won’t spanier/curley appoint an interim hc and that will be the end of it? I refuse to believe that Galen, Bradley, LJ SR, etc are a bunch of petulant children who will undermine whoever’s given the head coach label. They didn’t all stay here this long b/c they care more about themselves than the program.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Oct 14, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

yeah

I’m pretty sure most of the potential HC’s on our staff (LJ, Bradley) have been offered a higher position at another school at some point in time and have turned it down to stay at psu. If all they cared about were themselves they would have left a long time ago.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

except that by now everyone knows Joe is going to leave when he wants to leave

they could have had their own HC gigs somewhere else by now. Plus there’s no real guarantee they even get the HC job here anyways once Joe does leave. They know what the deal is, so I don’t see how there’s crazy infighting over being the next HC of PSU.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well not selfish

Just point out a person that stayed at the program and then realized he couldn’t out wait Joe and decided to move on to something else.

In his case the 2nd mile was a really cool thing….

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure what this comes down to anymore...

I find health to be a red-herring, it’s his health. He’s a grown man, and if he wants to risk his health to keep coaching football, that’s certainly not my decision.

The problem is, when we have a winning season, he’s not going to retire because he’s still doing a good job. When he has a losing season, he’s not going to retire because he wants to turn a strong program over to the next guy.

Joe Paterno’s made his decision, he’s coaching until someone or something physically prevents him from walking out on to the field.

Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.

by jesse. on Oct 14, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

the other thing

he sees what happened to bear bryant. i gaurantee it. hes terrified that once he retires, hes going to die within 12 months

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Strangely enough, he's probably making it inevitable.

If you coach until your health is failing, then retire, it’s likely that your health will fail.

On the other hand, assuming Joe is in reasonable health (all indications are that he’s probably worse than he was last year but far better than most people suggest), if he were to retire now then he has plenty of time to keep himself occupied.

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

good points

but all speculation aside, say college football truly is what makes him yearn to wake up in the morning. i know ive seen it countless times in my life with elderly folks around me, once they lose that reason that gives them the sense of being needed, they fade away quickly. just another piece to add to an already complicated puzzle

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think the lung cancer thing is lost on Joe.

Bear didn’t die because he retired. Joe has had the rare gift of being able to do what he loves for a living, make an impact on the world in a positive way and be admired by millions of people for it.

I’d rather die than lose that too.

Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.

by jesse. on Oct 14, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

When we're surfing, we call that "one more wave"

You’re cold or tired or have something you’re supposed to go do and you keep saying “one more wave”. Then you catch one, and it wasn’t so good, so you say “one more good wave”. Then you catch a good wave, and you get stoked and the cold or work or tired arms are a thing of the past and you say “one more wave”.

I know the image of Joe surfing may be ridiculous, but my stubborn Italian 86 year old father-in-law still surfs. And he’s who I picture Joe Paterno as being. Still mentally and physically capable, but you know the time is getting shorter. So I hope we all enjoy his final year(s) w/o too much fighting and second guessing. And I pity the guy who has to fill his shoes.

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Oct 14, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I actually don't pity the guy who has to fill his shoes.

The guy who does, however, has to understand beforehand that he will never fill his shoes. The kingdom’s been built, the throne celebrated. If you’re looking for that, you have to go to a place like Rutgers and turn them into a football power. The work has already been done here.

Penn State is arguably a top 5 (definitely top 10) coaching position in college football. Second largest stadium, huge alumni/donor base, beautiful campus, tremendous history, in the center of an extremely fertile recruiting area with limited competition (largest regional competitors for Mid-Atlantic/NE football talent: Pitt, Rutgers, Maryland, Syracuse). The guy who takes this job gets all of these advantages right at the very start. That’s an amazing deal.

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

I guess I was thinking more of everything he does being compared to Paterno. “Joe would have won that game.” “Joe would have played the freshman QB.” etc

But you’re right – any reasonably good coach has a decent chance for success with everything available to him at PSU.

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Oct 14, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

After writing that, I literally can't think of a better gig in college football.

I’m trying, but every power job has at least one of the following major downsides – past/present sanctions, lunatic boosters (i.e., any major SEC power), terrible weather, not located in a major high school football hotbed, etc. The only downside to being at Penn State is following Joe.

Maybe the easiest jobs to succeed at in the entire country are Penn State and Ohio State.

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

but were too country

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always thought that was one of the benefits

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Oct 14, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's good and bad

State College is a great area to live. I always enjoyed my time there – being able to go golf or bike or hike or whatever. But there isn’t a lot of exciting night life really.

And during the summers the place is a ghost town. It’s crazy when you’re there and not a student…you go from driving downtown for lunch and having anywhere to park and out of no where the place explodes.

You don’t look at the calendar or space out and forget that’s freshman move in week and decide to take a trip to Wegmans…it turns into a nightmare.

That said, if I ever had a ton of money and could buy a summer home it would be in state college.

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Raystown lake just down the road, Penns Caves, Horseshoe Curve an hour away, Mifflinburg with their October Fest and German Christmas celebrations with good beer! What else do you need for excitement!

just being funny

by BMAN13 on Oct 14, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Barely.

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea we are country

maybe thats why we have a problem with all those “elitist” programs.

/Palin’d

by swiggy04 on Oct 14, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can actually see Russia from Mt. Nittany

/BSD explodes for second consecutive day

Personal Attack- R. Aceto

by Bob Sacamano on Oct 14, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

i know its not palin but

I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because some people out there in our nation don’t have maps and I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and Iraq and everywhere like such as and I believe that they should our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S. or should help South Africa and should help Iraq and the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future for us

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Such as The Iraq

"Personal Attack"- R. Aceto

by Bob Sacamano on Oct 14, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

rec'd for adding the all important "the"

that made it so much funnier

that poor girl. I wonder if she got into Appalachian State, IIRC that was her “dream” school It was either that or Coastal Carolina.

Damn you. Now I have to look it up.

Whatever

by letsgopsu on Oct 14, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

huh

b!tch got herself on The Amazing Race. Here is her bio. See her “accomplishment”

Caite Upton
Age: 20
Hometown: Lexington, S.C.
Connection to your Teammate: Dating
Current Occupation: Model
Pet peeve about your teammate: He picks his nose with tissue paper, throws it in the toilet and doesnÂ’t flush
Favorite Hobbies: Art, sports, modeling and acting

Achievements: Being able to overcome the embarrassment from the flub I made on national television during the Miss Teen USA pageant

Lifelong To Do List: To advance my career as an actress and model. I also want to complete my college career in art with a minor in business at UCLA
If I could switch places with someone: Nobody, I’m very content with who I am.
Role Model/Hero: Johnny Unitas because he continued to be a good person while in the limelight and was very headstrong, genuine and determined to achieve everything he put his mind to
What are you passionate about? My lifelong goals and dreams
What would you do if you won the million dollars? Buy a Maserati and a round of drinks for my friends. Hah
People would be surprised to learn: I’m very athletic and can pretty much beat every guy in anything. I am also an amazing artist
Favorite place you have ever visited: Montabaur, Germany.
Biggest challenge you and your teammate will face on the Race together: We both are headstrong and feel as if we are alpha males in the relationship. We will also need to do a better job listening to each other
What do you hope to accomplish by running the Race (other than winning one million bucks)? I hope to learn how to stay calm in tense situations

Whatever

by letsgopsu on Oct 14, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you mocking my dreams?

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 14, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

no, I am mocking her

I am bitter that this trollop got on the Amazing Race because after her debacle on TV.

I would like to be on the Amazing Race, and I talks real good

Whatever

by letsgopsu on Oct 14, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

+1 for trollop

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I will also

take one trollop, please.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 15, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Me too, please!

C’mon ride that train. That trollop train.

My team is on the field.

by jtothep on Oct 15, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trollop train?

I hope you have good health insurance.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 16, 2010 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Like, with a paddle?

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 14, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I suppose since

my imagination was more limited than yours.

Hey wait, it’s Friday!

/heads to YFDI

My team is on the field.

by jtothep on Oct 15, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

NO POLITICS

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

For all sorts of stuff, not the least of which is your 86 year old surfing grandfather.

Dude, you’re kinda becoming my hero.

My team is on the field.

by jtothep on Oct 14, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wish he was my grandfather

He’s my fathe-in-law – I married his youngest daughter and he reminds me almost every day that I’m “on probation” with him and better be on my best behavior. And then he reminds me that he’s 86, so my probation can’t go on forever. Awesome guy for a father-in-law!

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Oct 14, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed millzners

And for me, it’s not even a question of if Joe knows when he should go…because that time has passed him by. I’m not puting a year on when he should have gone, but it’s reasonable to say that an 80+ year old man should not be the head coach of a football team, for a 101 reasons. And if Joe preached all those years about showing class, being humble, etc…why don’t those ideals apply to him on this situation? You may not think this has anything to do with class, being humble etc…but i do. And this train of thought, btw, doesn’t negate anything that he’s done, and he’s done a lot. But why does the “Joe has done so much for the program, town, and university” argument always have to be used? This isn’t the way this legend should be “going out”, IMO

by stewsplace on Oct 14, 2010 11:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Here is side of the coin that may not have been looked at....

The Paterno’s may not have had the best financil skills. Having spent his money foolishly, he is afraid that all he will have to live on is his Social Security Check. With Sue’s frequent shopping trip and the amount of debt they have accumulated, he may need to keep working to keep her in the lifestyle she is comfortable…..Just sayin’ IMO! (insert sarcastic gesture here)

Settle it on the field!

by PSUncle1981 on Oct 14, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

And the hookers...

those bi@ches are expensive.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Oct 14, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You've made a wonderful argument.

The expectations are so high at Penn State BECAUSE of Joe Paterno. It’s not like you can say “Paterno isn’t keeping up the standard ‘insert name’ set”. He is the reason the standard is so high. It seems silly to call for him to quit because his team isn’t achieving the lofty heights he set.

I’d argue the no one person has done as much for their employer that Joe Paterno. No one. Everyone has to remember that without him, there is no Big Ten, no Bryce Jordan Center, no 110,000 fans every week.

His donations probably probably than the total of his salary throught he years. He has secured billions of dollars for the university. Yes, billions. I think it’s safe to say Penn State would not be what it is today without Joe Paterno.

I think he’s earned a bit of slack.

When you put those black shoes on tomorrow, and you put on that jersey without your name on the back, and you put that plain helmet on, that's tradition. Penn State tradition!

--Who else?

by run4peach on Oct 14, 2010 11:15 AM EDT reply actions  

He's also received a lot of slack.

No other coach in the nation could get away with what Joe gets away with. He works from home most of the time. He doesn’t recruit. Half of his staff doesn’t recruit. It’s actually a tribute to the man that the program basically runs on his celebrity and charisma.

This whole conversation is always so weird. There are people who are Joe Paterno fans more than they’re Penn State fans, and will defend Joe’s every action until the very end. There are others who are okay if Penn State ran its program the way Alabama does. Some people think that Joe Paterno is the only coach capable of graduating players and winning football games simultaneously.

People have different expectations — of the head coach, the players, the program, etc. And there’s no real, correct set of expectations. Some are totally okay with going 8-4 as long as the program is run cleanly. That’s fine. Some want 12-0 seasons at all costs. Okay. Not my style, but I get it.

--
@scrappled
Slow States - Lacking SEC speed since, like, a month ago.

by Run Up The Score on Oct 14, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I never know how to feel about this stuff.

On one hand, I’m very much OK with going 8-4 every year that Paterno is still head coach. Joe’s an icon and a legend. He’ll be retired soon enough; and we should honor the moments that we have left with him.

On the other hand, I’m very much not OK with Joe staying if we’re going to start going 6-6, 5-7 repeatedly. That’s the kind of thing that can do permanent damage to the program and really cause an unnecessary negative response to the man himself. I’d rather avoid that, if at all possible.

If we went 5-7 this year (or even 4-8) and it was a normal year, I think you shrug your shoulders, cut your coach a year of slack, and move on to better days next year. But the question is whether a 5-7 record is symptomatic of something much greater – leadership, effort, control, etc.

I don’t want to see Joe go out like Bobby, and I don’t want to see the program deteriorate. I’d be OK with Joe leaving after this year, but I’m certainly not looking forward to it. It’s such an awkward subject.

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I should've also said

…that I’m very much not OK with any random coach going 8-4 on a regular basis, especially if Joe gets run out of town. I’m not suggesting you have to win every.single.game, but 8-4 routinely means a coach who hasn’t earned the kind of leeway that Joe has is doing the exact same job, and probably for more money. 8-4 is the lowest of expectations this program should have in the post-Paterno era.

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

The thing is, it can't be all about Joe.

I know there’s always a sentiment of “he can stay as long as he wants”, and I’ve occasionally said it in the past myself (like I said, this is emotionally complicated). But the reality is, if the football program tanks (and I think any coaching change will result in one or two down-ish years, if only due to the recruiting gap), the money for the rest of the athletic department dries up. Big problem, especially with STEP on the horizon.

I suspect he’s done after this year, though I wouldn’t discount the notion of a down year making him want to return for a shot at redemption.

--
@scrappled
Slow States - Lacking SEC speed since, like, a month ago.

by Run Up The Score on Oct 14, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

agreed about the complexity

It’s like making the decision to take the car keys away from grandpa. Except he’s no one’s and everyone’s grandpa. And he built the car.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Oct 14, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't know about a coaching change

resulting in one or two down-ish years. Depends on the coach we’re hiring. Rich Rodriguez guaranteed Michigan would be down at least 2 years because his system was entirely different. Assuming we hire a coach who’s not running the hot system of the month (I’m looking at you, “Pistol”), then we’re talented enough to come through relatively unscathed. The piece parts will already be in place for a guy like Golden, Harbaugh (that’s my pick, although unlikely), or Fitzgerald.

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Although we're far from the point of discussing successors

both Harbaugh and Golden seem like strong candidates. Fitzgerald (I’m assuming you mean Pat) is not going anywhere; baffling as it may seem, Fitzgerald absolutely loves his alma mater and Chicago. There’s no way he’s leaving, especially if it means sticking it to his school by staying in conference.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 14, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chicago is nice

Don’t blame him…beats the heck out of State College

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love it most days

except the streets suck…and the cops don’t care…and the schools are substandard…wait, why do I live here? Oh, yeah, the food is really good.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 14, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree Fitz is a long shot, but it's clear he's the type of candidate

that will draw serious attention from the administration, assuming they choose to interview outside of the current staff.

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fitzgerald is evil and he made a giant baked potato murder Ricky Stanzi.

So there.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did I miss something...

like maybe consecutive losses to Central Michigan and then Northwest-South Indiana or something? There was one horrendous game so far this season and a bunch of less than inspiring ones, a tanked program that does not make.

Health concerns are a legitimate problem, but where was the endless speculation before the Illinois game when his health was actually preventing him from doing his normal* media/fundraising duties earlier this spring and summer?

*If you want to argue that Paterno’s normal is different than most Id have to agree, but this is nothing new that one terrible performance has created.

"I have my Joe Paterno autograph already, but I don’t know that I’d begrudge anybody else from getting theirs no matter their age. That’s kind of like meeting Winston Churchill." jesse. @ BSD

by bconway6 on Oct 14, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not to attack you specifically

but the general feeling that we are on the brink of going 3 and 9 for the rest of the Paterno tenure.

"I have my Joe Paterno autograph already, but I don’t know that I’d begrudge anybody else from getting theirs no matter their age. That’s kind of like meeting Winston Churchill." jesse. @ BSD

by bconway6 on Oct 14, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

illinois looks MUCH better than i gave them credit for

its not like we lost to toledo..just mentioning that game makes me want to lay in the fetal position in the shower

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

if they didn't hang with OSU the way they did

than I’d say that you’re just saying Illinois looks better than originally thought because they beat US, and for a team to beat PSU they have to be good (otherwise we admit that PSU is really that bad). Luckily they hung with OSU.

by The JuggerNitt on Oct 14, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

nah, were scrubby right now.

i was impressed with the way that they did anything they wanted. after watching them last year, if they were as inept as we are, then it would have been a brutal game for both teams. i wouldnt be shocked if they knocked off msu. not saying they will, just it wouldnt surprise me

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I suspect he’s done after this year, though I wouldn’t discount the notion of a down year making him want to return for a shot at redemption.

I agree. If we win out somehow, maybe this could be it for him. We could play in the Cap one bowl and play Florida and he could retire like Carr did after a bad season that got turned around. But he’s got that passion to win that you can’t just switch off, and at this point he’s got to be thinking “next year is our year” We all were thinking it (until last week).

2005 would have been perfect, but he didn’t have the record and Bobby did. That, in my opinion, was the biggest reason for the past 3 seasons. Now he’s got the record, he’s cemented his legacy with a great finish to the last decade, and now he’s just looking for that 2005ish season.

McGloin Despite Them

Preaching the McGospel since Aug. 2nd, 2010

by millzners on Oct 14, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

another way of thinking about it

If Joe is feeling really selfless he could leave after this year. That way he is pretty much guaranteeing that the incoming coach will be able to improve things in his first year. It would limit the “OMG WE PICKED THE WORST COACH EVER!!!! SKY IS FALLING!!!!” attitudes.

by scotty2hotty89 on Oct 14, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

But in the Paterno-era?

You’re saying 8-4 isn’t the lowest of expectations?

I think this is part of the problem. People love Joe – heckuva coach, can’t imagine what it’ll be like when he’s gone…the whole bit. But it almost seems as if people are trying to justify these bad seasons with Joe yet saying that the second someone else comes things have to change.

I hope people realize that when a new coach comes in, even if we run the same type of system it generally takes a full recruiting class to pull in the type of kids you want.

Then if the new coach wants to go from the HIT to more of a free-weight type of thing that will take time.

This change will not happen over night.

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe we don't see 8-4 as a bad season

its not a great season, maybe not even a good one, but I would hardly call that terrible, especially if that’s our low point. If you told me the worst we would ever do is 8-4 every few seasons with 10-2, 11-1, or even a 12-0 season, I would probably be happy with that coach.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see 8-4 as a bad season

I think that’s respectable with the current PSU model where every 3-4 years you compete for a big 10 title and once a decade the cards align and you make a run at the national title.

Just saying that maybe that’s what we should still expect at PSU irregardless of whom the head coach is.

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well any new coach will have to do better

but Joe’s proved enough that he can get away with it. Though I would say a new coach wouldn’t (and perhaps shouldn’t) have requirements too much more stringent than that. Competing for a B10 championship every 3 of 5 years would probably satisfy most people.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think people should be realistically happy with that

You can’t win every year, that’s madness and while you’d like to see it – that’s really hard to do. Sure a program here or there catches a few recruiting classes and gets lucky but historically I can’t think of programs that have done it.

Every 3 years or so allows for recruiting classes to turn over and have senior-heavy teams that know the system.

I guess the thing that bugs me is the

but Joe’s proved enough that he can get away with it.

I know everyone has a bad day, week,month,year, whatever. Happens to you, happens to me…But how many bad seasons in a row do you let slide. Hypothetically , suppose PSU goes 5-7 next year….do you now say he gets another year? And if that following year he goes 5-7 / 6-6 do you give him another year? How much rope does he get?

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he were to have losing seasons 2 years in a row, it's over

No one’s patience lasts that long. Not even mine. Joe’s certainly proven enough that he can get away with 5-7 followed by 9-4. Maybe even 7-5.

No, 8-4 isn’t the lowest of expectations now, not for one year. If Joe won 8 games a year until retirement, I absolutely think there’s a large portion of the fanbase that could live with that, probably myself included. But that’s only because of Joe. If the next coach goes 8-4 with any type of regularity, he’ll be fired within 3 years because donors will be clammoring for his head. The people who support Joe at 8-4 are not going to be as forgiving to the next guy. He hasn’t earned that support.

Joe can probably survive 5-7 this year, assuming he can assure people that he’s in control of the program. Even Joe can’t survive back-to-back losing seasons with middling recruiting.

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, 8-4 isn’t the lowest of expectations now, not for one year. If Joe won 8 games a year until retirement, I absolutely think there’s a large portion of the fanbase that could live with that, probably myself included. But that’s only because of Joe.

So you’re putting Joe above the program? I guess that’s how I see it but I could be wrong.

In 2000 he went 5-7 and then in 2001 he went 5-6. Arguably this contradicts what you’ve just said above about 2 losing seasons in a row. Then in 2003-2004 he went 3-9/4-7 respectably.

So what’s to say this time would be any different for the fan base? It’s almost like a mother that tells their child they better sit down before she counts to 3 and the count goes : 1…2….2 1/2…..2 3/4…….Johnny I’m serious sit down ….

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

8-4 seasons with Joe Paterno at the helm aren't killing the program.

Paterno’s not just another guy and you can’t treat him like one. He’s an institution. If he’s pulling 8-4 seasons, it means PSU football is still successful because he alone raises millions of dollars virtually due to name value alone. He’s a recognizable brand name.

Of course, I was referring to the current situation. This is 10 years later, Joe is 10 years older, and he’s already been given his second chance. Joe doesn’t survive 5-7 back-to-back now. It’s a completely different situation than when he was 73 and had never had any kind of downcycle. Big time donors know what that downcycle feels like and they aren’t willing to go back there. That’s the backbone of Joe’s support. When that collapses, his career as head coach is over whether he wants to leave or not.

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK

I see where you’re coming from, thanks for clarifying the issue.

I agree that the 8-4 is big for him. As long as 110k people go into the stadium and make $$$$ everyone is happy. Although the fanatics will be a bit disappointed.

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd agree

I don’t think people are going to forgive a 5-7 season this year. Especially with the fear of the Dark Years still lingering in the rear view. I’m thinking Joe will have to do at least 7-5 or better this year, or he’s going to be asked to retire.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

7-5?

So you think he’d have to go 4-2 the rest of the way?

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, 7 wins

including a bowl win. I’m not saying I would be calling for it, or that its fair. I just think the seeds of dissention have been sown with all the negative media coming out that his base of support would have a hard time keeping him in without a winning record. Just how I see things happenening in that situation though.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

7 wins

If they can squeak out 7 wins I’ll be delighted. Right now I just want 6 so they can get the bowl practice time in

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

A bowl is what I want too

and that seems to be the measure of success for your average fan. Even if it is the Pizza Pizza bowl or whatever. But that extra practice would be key for next season.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

bingo

House-hunting with Rick Neuheisel in State College since 2005.....

by Artiefufkin10 on Oct 14, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes...

big for Bolden’s development.

Opulence, I has it.

Richard, you rascal, you never told me you were a DIK! - Van Wilder

by Esteban d' Amur on Oct 14, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lets see how they come out at MN

If they play like they did last week there’s no chance. But there is NOTHING that tells me that they will be that bad at this point.

I think this whole OMG WE R TEH SUX! thing really needs to hold up a second and see what happens at least in the next 2 weeks.

"I have my Joe Paterno autograph already, but I don’t know that I’d begrudge anybody else from getting theirs no matter their age. That’s kind of like meeting Winston Churchill." jesse. @ BSD

by bconway6 on Oct 14, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

but its the interwebs

where there is no such thing as future or past performance…the only thing relevant to the discussion is how WERE DOOMED!

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's possible to not play well at Minnesota and still win.

That’s a team that had trouble competing with FCS schools. I’m looking for some progress. We might be able to run the ball against Minnesota, but there’s no guarantee that the running game has substantially improved (see: Temple). I’d like to start seeing a change in philosophy. Midway through the season we know what is working and what isn’t. Let’s see Bolden passing on 1st down, West Coast style down the field, try to get the ball to Royster/Redd/Green in space. Let’s move away from the pulling guards and to a more simplified offense that the line is capable of having success in. I think that’s the best measure of success the rest of the way.

I’d be lying if I said it wouldn’t make me feel better superficially if we could just run the ball over the right guard repeatedly anyway, though….

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed...

simply a win against Minnesota isnt the end all sign of good things to come. Those are all sound things that probably should be adjusted. Lets see if that happens is all I’m trying to say.

"I have my Joe Paterno autograph already, but I don’t know that I’d begrudge anybody else from getting theirs no matter their age. That’s kind of like meeting Winston Churchill." jesse. @ BSD

by bconway6 on Oct 14, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

“He’ll be retired soon enough; and we should honor the moments that we have left with him”

I completely agree with this, but my only problem is that we’ve been saying that for 10 years now and a full half of those years have been a disaster. I love the guy, but am I still going to be saying “give him time” 5 years from now?

by coop247 on Oct 14, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but...

…it’s not as if he went 9-4, 3-9, 11-1, 4-7, 9-4, 11-2, 5-6, etc. He had a series of terrible years. He was confronted. The team came back to records of 11-1, 9-4, 9-4, 11-2, 11-2. If you told me that we’d go 5-7 this year followed by 9-4, 11-2, 11-2, 6-6, then yes, I’d probably take it and give him time to “right the ship” from 6-6, assuming he’s in reasonably good health.

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with your second and third paragraphs.

But to say he and the staff doesn’t recruit is a problem I have with this discussion. Most of this talk is predicated on this year’s class. Say what you want about the slow start or lack of contact with the “stars”, we still just landed a few classes in a row that were pretty top notch. Even if you write this year off as a bad recruiting year, we have a ton of young talent in the works.

I will say, though, that when Lloyd left, the recruiting cupboard was bare for RichRod who had to scramble to put a class together. Sorry, Al Golden.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Oct 14, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

The fact that we still get quality recruits,

doesn’t negate the fact that Joe Paterno and a few coaches on his staff rarely if ever put any effort into recruiting.

by VVeRPennState on Oct 14, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're correct, but its not like we're getting a bunch of Canadian linemen with a half-staff.

I’m sure that if our staff put in the energy and resources that a Florida/Texas/USC did, we could pull another 5* kid or two. But our staff is different, and even then, we STILL pull some 5* kids. Further, our staff has made a delightful habit of turning the 2* kids into incredible college athletes.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Oct 14, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who cares why they come?

It takes a lot of work for Ohio State to get a kid that Joe Paterno wants. You think it’s a lock that recruting improves if the old man isn’t on the sideline, even if he is only a figurehead? I sure don’t.

Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.

by jesse. on Oct 14, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

And those high level guys

that were inherited, RR quickly ran out of town.

Old mother RichRod went to the cupboard to find a star QB
When he got there, it was Ryan Mallet to be
RR said you can’t run, you’re not the QB for me
and sent him packing to Arkansee.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Oct 14, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

What other "schools put up with"

is subjective, isn’t it? Look at what a couple of places put up with Jackie Sherrill years ago. How many schools have tried to cover up misdeeds of their coaches in order to keep them in their program? Look at someone like Lane Kiffin. USC welcomed him with open arms despite his past. Coaches like these guys may do some of the things that Paterno no longer does, but their employers sometimes overlook how they do them.

If we get that back from South Carolina last year or Terrell Pryor a couple years back (and apparently we choice B to both of them) those recruiting classed would have been first in the nation, at least by scout. Someone has been doing a pretty good job.

When you put those black shoes on tomorrow, and you put on that jersey without your name on the back, and you put that plain helmet on, that's tradition. Penn State tradition!

--Who else?

by run4peach on Oct 14, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll be at that Iowa-Michigan game in the club box.

I can’t in good conscience wear UM or Iowa clothes, so I’m not sure what to wear. Basic weekend wear is safe, but boring. PSU attire is bold, but invites ridicule and constant confrontation from both fanbases. Further, who do I root for? I can’t cheer outwardly for Iowa (as the wife and in-laws, who got these awesome seats, will be next to me cheering on their beloved groundhogs Wolverines). I’m thinking of feigning disinterest while silently cheering on the Hawkeyes. Take ’em down a peg, Iowa.

What to do?

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Oct 14, 2010 11:30 AM EDT reply actions  

wear penn state stuff

i always do it in those situations. it let’s people know where your loyalties lie.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Oct 14, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Those that matter know where they lay, and regardless of what I'm wearing I'll hear it from them.

I’m talking about the riff-raff. The random UM asshole that says “JOE POOPED HIS PANTS ONCE AND I’VE NEVER DONE ANYTHING STOOPID SO I’M BETTER THAN HIM” is someone I can do without on the PSU bye week.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Oct 14, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you had it right

plain clothes and keep your mouth shut for the game. If Iowa makes a big play, point out a good block or tackle casually as if you are just impressed with the intricacies of the game. Say in a calm, yet slightly awe-strucken tone. Or if michigan fails, point out how that guy almost made that tackle or caught that ball. It will drive them crazy, yet you don’t appear to be actively rooting against them.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

fair enough

but i usually go to a pitt basketball game when i’m home over christmas and i always wear my go-to penn state sweatshirt. I absolutely hear it. I usually just smile and take it, but if someone’s being a real ass—like the hypothetical michigan fan—i just talk trash back.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Oct 14, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Do you have the Farmers High School t-shirt?

That might engage the civilized, keep away the riff raff.

by Illegal Formation on Oct 14, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. PSU is the way to go.

BSD Mike and I went to a Texan’s/Bear’s game a couple of years back. it scored us free beer at a private tailgate and some great respect in the stadium. We felt safe. Now this was in Houston. In Ann Arbor, not so much!

Settle it on the field!

by PSUncle1981 on Oct 14, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

My brother and I went to UM V Bowling Green wearing PSU stuff. The Mich people were great, super nice, dont sweat it. Got to represent.

by coop247 on Oct 14, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I'm not worried about violence or anything.

I’ve been to a few games there and agree they have great fans, for the most part (every school has those random dbags). I guess I’m just tired to debating this whole down season/JoePa issue, so if I can avoid it for one weekend, I"m more inclined to.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Oct 14, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Simple

Wear kacki pants, black sneakers and a plain grey sweatshirt over a white collared shirt. You’ll be Penn State, but not over the top, and you’ll be able to get away with a dress code pretty much anywhere on a football weekend.

Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.

by jesse. on Oct 14, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Perhaps the

Mr. Paterno Will be fine t-shirt from BHGP???

I doubt those around will know where it comes from, but you can clearly state your PSU’ness and that youre siding with Iowa in this particular game.

"I have my Joe Paterno autograph already, but I don’t know that I’d begrudge anybody else from getting theirs no matter their age. That’s kind of like meeting Winston Churchill." jesse. @ BSD

by bconway6 on Oct 14, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't think I get the shirt?

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone who hasn't read those

should be shot on sight

"I shoot, I score. He shoots, I score." - Dan Gable

by ClaybornSmash on Oct 14, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Guilty.

Got a link?

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just a bullet...

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 14, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah well. Can't win 'em all.

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

google is your friend

and in case you don’t know what bhgp is, it is blackheartgoldpants.com, Iowa’s SBN blog.

by The JuggerNitt on Oct 15, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

wear steelers stuff...

same colors, but people will just suspect your a football fan that doesnt have a rooting interest and still wants to wear something related to football… secretly you’ll be conveying Iowa support

For the glory

by lionalum05 on Oct 14, 2010 11:33 AM EDT reply actions  

i was waiting for that

fine, struck and recast: “none lack the ability to check their email address.”

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Oct 14, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough.

I always wondered if there is some poor graduate assistant who is responsible for reading and responding to emails sent to that address.

by VVeRPennState on Oct 14, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

one way to find out

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Oct 14, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your signature gave me cold chills

Neuheisel in State College . . . omg. I’d root for Pitt if Neuheisel coached PSU.

Speaking of which, has anyone associated with the university ever mentioned the names of coaches they’d like to succeed Joepa? I know I (and some others here) are high on Pat Fitzgerald, but I’m really curious if anyone, ever, has even talked about a succession plan, much less possible candidates. I find the administration’s silence on the issue to be disturbing. Either there’s actually no plan whatsoever in place, or there is one but they’re not sharing. Either way it’s a problem. Imo no coach is more important than the university itself, and I’d appreciate it if the administration took an affirmative stance on the issue. Even if it was simply “Joe will stay as long as he can coach, but we have contingency plans in place so don’t freak out.”

Some people are born mediocre, some achieve mediocrity, and some people have mediocrity thrust upon them. - Joseph Heller

by NLseattle on Oct 14, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dispectful

In my meaningless opinion, a public discussion on a succession plan is disrespectful to Joe.

Carry it on behind the scenes but don’t make a 3 ring circus out of it. Just one day let Joe walk to the podium and say I’m stepping down as head coach from the University…[exit speech]

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

the administration isnt clueless

im sure they have a plan but what good does it do to the fan base? in all honesty, fans will freak out if one is announced (omg its the WRONG guy) and fans will freak out if one isnt (OMG the administration is clueless..we have no coach!)

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

No!

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

but i have my shovel out and everything

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

How has this not been Rec'd yet?

Many predicted most of this. losses at AL, IA, probable at OSU and perhaps a random one (hopefully ILL). I didn’t predict the random one, but many others did.

"I have my Joe Paterno autograph already, but I don’t know that I’d begrudge anybody else from getting theirs no matter their age. That’s kind of like meeting Winston Churchill." jesse. @ BSD

by bconway6 on Oct 14, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Success with Honor.

There is no dishonor in an honest loss.
It could be said there is dishonor in not applying every inch of your ability, and then some, to complete a task in front of you.
There is no dishonor in succumbing to an injury, and coming back to fight another day.

It could be said there is dishonor in telling the architect of the Grand Experiment that it is over when you (either the University, or the simple fan) say it is .. not when he says it is. Who are you all of a sudden? Did you start this? Were you the one given free rein by the University to not only coach a football team, but to mold young boys into the men that this University has produced? To bind them to the principles and standards that the school itself holds dear. Or are you a pie eyed child walking in the shadow of what he built?
Not to the point of deification, but humble respect for what has been done.
Use that example to motivate yourself, to push yourself that much more, to stand up taller, to keep yourself straighter, to lift up your brothers and sisters on your shoulders, to see the far reaches of what can be seen, to do the things still left undone. When you think you can’t – you’re right you can’t. Don’t ever believe you can’t. It doesn’t matter what happened yesterday, or last Saturday, what matters is what you set forth and do today.

Fight On State!

"Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good."

Joe Paterno

by NUPSU on Oct 14, 2010 12:54 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Geez. What'd I miss?

All I did was go to Chick Fil A.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Oct 14, 2010 12:59 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

man it was weird

we had, like, intelligent discussions that didn’t devolve into name calling and personal attacks. And stuff.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Although now that I know Junny went to Chick-Fil-A and didn't bring us any

I’d just like to say what a douchenozzle he his.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 14, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

And what a terrible editor I am.

“is” not “his”

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 14, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dont you mean seconds?

"I have my Joe Paterno autograph already, but I don’t know that I’d begrudge anybody else from getting theirs no matter their age. That’s kind of like meeting Winston Churchill." jesse. @ BSD

by bconway6 on Oct 14, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1 for chick fil-a

I wish we could go 6-6 and play in their bowl (if they still have it, and also i wish the Big 10 would alignus with that bowl so that everythinio just said wasnt completely meaningless). But anyway bravo on the chick fil-a

by swiggy04 on Oct 14, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

6-6 doesn't get you in the Chick-fil-a bowl.

Unless maybe you’re the ACC sacrifical lamb for next years darkhorse SEC team.

Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.

by jesse. on Oct 14, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

thank you

for discrediting my already self-acclaimed god-awful comment even further.

PS whats wrong with being Wake Forest?

by swiggy04 on Oct 14, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chik-fil-A ain't no chicken cosmo

R.I.P. Cosmo

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Oct 14, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Discussions are heated this week...

Are we really going to be able to keep this up for another 9 days?

House-hunting with Rick Neuheisel in State College since 2005.....

by Artiefufkin10 on Oct 14, 2010 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Dare I ask what we would do if we run the table? Or ONLY lose to OSU as expected?

Can the internet unimplode? Could all of us on BSD go over to Audibles and cheer about how much the team is teh awesome?

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Oct 14, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like the way you think.

If we won out, the resulting attitude shift on the internet would probably create some sort of portal into another dimension.

House-hunting with Rick Neuheisel in State College since 2005.....

by Artiefufkin10 on Oct 14, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

If that were to happen, my response will be simple:

SUCK IT H8ERS

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Elite Personal Attack!

Opulence, I has it.

Richard, you rascal, you never told me you were a DIK! - Van Wilder

by Esteban d' Amur on Oct 14, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The sad thing is

it would still be incredibly annoying if it was still in the same tone and style as RA. Just positive comments. But probably equally hilarious.

PERSONAL COMPLIMENT!

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

The sadder thing is

if RA just changed his tone a bit, wasn’t so offensive and defensive at the same time, he could have actually brought a lot of positive discussion to this board. I’m actually a little bummed that he was banned based on our collective reaction to him, since he never really did anything bad himself (at least nothing worse than everyone else did in response to him).

by The JuggerNitt on Oct 14, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

while true

he was just as much to blame for getting banned as the rest of us. Really his only saving grace was that he had some good points every now and then. Otherwise I think he would have been banned a long time ago.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, I thought he was good for the conversation

We sort of have this bandwagon jump on the new guy who disagrees thing. He said some things early on that were not well supported, and then from there he was jumped on for everything he said no matter how well he backed up his claim. Then things Just went downhill because neither side was willing to take the high road.

by scotty2hotty89 on Oct 14, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

again

its not that he was negative. It’s mostly that he was annoying, arrogant, and disrespectful to everyone else here. If you change his message but not the tone of it and I dont think people would have liked him any more. This is a more positively skewed site, so perhaps we would have tolerated him a little more, but I still think it would have eventually ended the same. And its not like he was brand new here, he was pulling the same schtick with basketball last year as well.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

mike even called him on it a couple times, saying it was his “holier than thou” attitude that rubbed people the wrong way.

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

having said that

PERSONAL ATTACK!

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you.

Aceto’s problem was not that certain users on this board didn’t like his message, his problem was that he didn’t care what anyone thought about him.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

that

and he didn’t want to have discussions, he wanted to just tell people what we should think. And if we didn’t we were idiots.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

i may very well be an idiot

but i dont need to be told that. i can come to that conclusion on my own

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Howard Eskin

is the reason i got SiriusXM… well him and Stern.

by swiggy04 on Oct 14, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eskin is the lowest common denominator of Philly (East Coast?) sports radio.

/personal attack

by MainLion on Oct 14, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually that would be

angelo cataldi. that guy makes me want to kick puppies

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Artie Lange was the man

I don’t listen as much since he left

Whatever

by letsgopsu on Oct 14, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you read his book?

I mean it’s not Jane Austen or anything, but it’s still pretty funny.

Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.

by jesse. on Oct 14, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I read it

he is a funny, funny man. Did you cry when you read about his Dad? You were supposed to.

So many comedians have that dark side. Drew Carey tried to kill himself also.

Whatever

by letsgopsu on Oct 14, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I cried.

That does not make me any less of a man. That book was teh awesome.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Oct 14, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

you were supposed to cry

i know you are not less of a man for it

Whatever

by letsgopsu on Oct 14, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

and yes

Austen and Artie Lange

I have so many levels

Whatever

by letsgopsu on Oct 14, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had no problems with him personally...

I tried to deconstruct his arguments by asking him direct questions. He responded well to that. He was a jerk to some of the other posters and he seemed to lack a sense of humor (until near the end), which is needed in these parts. You have to be able to give as good as you get.

Opulence, I has it.

Richard, you rascal, you never told me you were a DIK! - Van Wilder

by Esteban d' Amur on Oct 14, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was banned?

Really?

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

mike shut down that thread last night

and said RA was banned because he was too big of a distraction to the community. A bit Orwellian for me, but as Mike also said, it is his site, and all about him ;-)

While I wouldn’t say I liked RA (and probably verged on the dislike, for his “holier than thou” “I’ll tell you how you should think, if you disagree with me you’re an idiot” stance), I probably agreed with most of his points, and (at least initially) he had a pretty clear way of presenting them.

But he built himself a reputation, and it got to the point where it didn’t really matter what he said, people just pounced on him, fair or not.

by The JuggerNitt on Oct 14, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was the problem

People saw the screen name and either thought he was a clown or didn’t know him and assumed he was a clown.

Then you read that certain people agreed with most of his points yet he was still banned. Seems a bit off to me.

by buk110 on Oct 14, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, that wasn't the problem.

It doesn’t matter if you agreed with him. If someone treats everyone who disagrees with him like they’re fools, he’s probably going to get banned. That was his problem.

And seriously, it’s like people don’t know how hard it is to get banned here.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

I mean, I sent Mike inappropriate text messages of “the goods” and I’m still here! Oh wait, that was Brett Favre.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly

I don’t think anyone here minds disagreement/another point of view, but if you continually treat everyone like they’re idiots, no one is going to respond well to that.

Save BSD

by Kyle_Martin on Oct 14, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

A couple of things...

1] Richard Aceto was kind of like a poor man’s M1EK, although the latter had a sharper wit and better points.

2] Assuming that was his real name, at least he owned what he was saying. I understand why people like the annonimity here, but you have to take more responsibility for what you write when you’re not being secretive about who you are.

3] I’m pretty sure Rambler was being sarcastic.

Beat Off Week. We're getting 7.5 points.

by jesse. on Oct 14, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Number 3 is wrong.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

A bummer really...

I kind of liked the guy. Every board needs a bomb thrower. When has there been this many comments in a week?

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Oct 14, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

there are plenty more like him

first there was skins4eva. then RA. somebody will fill his shoes. or should i say, his throne?

The Theory of Evolution states that only the strong survive. Maybe so, maybe so. But the Theory of Competition states that, just because they're the strong, doesn't mean they can't get their asses kicked.

by jman07 on Oct 14, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aww man.

I’m gonna have to create a new email address just for this.

"But then again I’d second guess anything a clown like me says anyway."

by ReadingRambler on Oct 14, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

This has been pretty good, today.

A very elite conversation.

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

you know, this joke is getting old

we need to replace it with a younger, funnier joke that can win us the elite laughs.

by skarocksoi on Oct 14, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Easy rec

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 1:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Once again, gigantic reply fail. Should be to Ska above.

"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."

by Adam Collyer on Oct 14, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

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