The Big Ten Halts Expansion
by Adam Bittner on Dec 5, 2010 5:07 PM EST
in B1G / BigTen
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The Big Ten Conference announced today that it is no longer actively pursuing expansion after adding Nebraska in June.
As Adam Rittenberg points out, from a conference perspective, this is probably a good thing. No reason to add schools for the sake of adding them or anything like that.
Nevertheless, from a Penn State perspective, it's at least a little disappointing that the conference ended up moving west rather than east. This past Wednesday's matchup with Maryland in basketball showed that old Eastern foes can still stoke the passions in Happy Valley, and with the possibility of moving to a nine game conference schedule in the future, those will be ever more difficult to plan and fit it.
The addition of Nebraska as an annual game on Penn State's schedule is pretty awesome, but Nittany Lions fans will probably learn rather quickly how difficult it can be to maintain a rivalry across close to 1,000 miles. With schools like Pitt, Maryland and Syracuse in the back yard, it'd have been nice to see one or two of them come along as well. Sure, they're probably no better than Indiana or Purdue in the big picture, but they bring a regional tension factor that Penn State fans miss sometimes, whether they'll openly admit it or not.
Looks like it's time to close this chapter now, though, which is too bad when you think about it. Last offseason actually kind of rocked because of all the conference realignment talk.
O, and the writing is on the wall now for Penn State-Florida in the Outback Bowl. Stay tuned for updates on an official announcement, though.
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I'm confused
Why does that tweet mean that we would be playing Florida instead of South Carolina? I’d rather play the Gators because I think it would be more of an even matchup, but I didn’t think South Carolina would fall down two slots just because of yesterday’s loss.
That means that LSU
falls below them too? Assuming Arkansas goes to the Sugar and Bama goes to the Cap One?
I guess money really really talks
It's official
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
And we're getting Gruden.
Love that.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
Sweet
I’ll take that matchup. I think we can beat Florida, I wasn’t as confident about S Carolina.
by mundyscorner99 on Dec 5, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yes!
So glad we’re playing Florida… didn’t care if it was in the Gator or Outback.
Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.
Expansion
Nevertheless, from a Penn State perspective, it’s at least a little disappointing that the conference ended up moving west rather than east.
That’s true, but the reality is that picking up Nebraska is a huge move for the conference and there’s really no team that remotely compares in the Northeast. From a biased PSU prospective, sure, I’d love to see the Big Ten get some eastern teams and have us be less “on an island” but the pickings are slim and no team would really justify their admission financially. It would have to depend on opening up new markets to the conference, which is pretty questionable when you are talking about schools like Rutgers, Syracuse or Pitt. Maryland makes the most sense but is pretty entrenched in the ACC.
Maybe in the future, but I think it would take Notre Dame joining and wanting to see more eastern teams added.
Ehh...
When the B10 added Nebraska, it signaled, to me at least, that the league is more worried about branding nationally than getting into this market or that market. For that reason, I think Pitt and Syracuse were a lot more attractive as a possible natural rival for Penn State than people gave them credit for through the whole process. That said, I can see how they didn’t make sense otherwise. It was probably a lot closer than we thought, though, had the Big XII collapsed.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
It's probably a combination of both.
Nebraska doesn’t technically open up a new market. It does, as you suggest, increase the overall bargaining position of the Big Ten brand based on prestige alone.
It was clearly the better option, but that might also be because there is no chance that those schools were opening up new markets. Each one of them was a risk – you can’t cover Pennsylvania any better than you do already (sorry Panthers and ‘Eers), Rutgers is hardly the “New York market” school that it so desperately proclaims itself to be, Connecticut just doesn’t have any substantial following, Syracuse is a terrible institutional fit, and Boston is a pro sports market (which the ACC found out the hard way).
Maryland is the best fit, easily. It taps into the metro-DC market and it would expand our cable reach. But Maryland isn’t anywhere near the name that Nebraska is and it’s very secure in the stability of the ACC. Nebraska was the only option that (a) was possible and (b) brought something significant to the table.
Bottom line – market expansion may still be the most important factor, but no eastern school would have be a guarantee to accomplish that. With that in mind, our best expansion options were south and west.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Dec 5, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
When the B10 added Nebraska, it signaled, to me at least, that the league is more worried about branding nationally than getting into this market or that market. For that reason, I think Pitt and Syracuse were a lot more attractive as a possible natural rival for Penn State than people gave them credit for through the whole process.
I agree with the first part, but don’t see how the second follows. Bringing in Nebraska means they were focused more on improving the product and using that to generate revenue. I don’t see how bringing in non-national names in football like Pitt or Syracuse would help. “Rivalries” don’t sell to the general public unless the teams involved are nationally prominent (or it’s Army/Navy). No one care that Cal hates Stanford or whatever.
The problem with all the eastern teams is that they all have major deficiencies, even if they have some positives – Rutgers without athletic prowess/history, Pitt without a market and mediocre football, Syracuse smaller school with (relatively) small research and poor football of late, UConn with essentially football history and small home state and far away. Maryland is easily the best fit, but the ACC is very stable, makes decent money, and they are well established there.
I had mixed feelings about Nebraska
On one hand, I was glad to see an old rival from our days as an independant, on the other hand, I was hoping for Syracuse or Pitt, possibly Rutgers or even Villanova. I’m just glad that the talk of Penn State getting shipped out west came to naught. However, I disagree with the idea that Penn State will struggle to have a rivalry with a team thousands of miles away, we did it as an Independant with Nebraska, Miami, Alabama, and to a lesser extent, USC, Stanford, and NC State. I think it’ll become like the USC-Notre Dame rivalry and won’t feel as forced since we have some history with the Huskers.
As far as bowl destination, I say bring on the Gators. We have an 0-2 record against Florida (or maybe it’s 0-3), and that’s a fluke that needs corrected before the media gets hold of this. Last thing I want to hear are more “We own Penn State” chants. Getting them from Michigan in the past and now Iowa is bad enough.
Villanova?
I want to dislike this comment on that alone.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
That was meant as a commentary on how bad I wanted another Eastern team
Maybe I should have said Delaware?
Villanova!?
Please pass me whatever you’re smoking.
2010 PSU Football: You do not and will not understand it
Lehigh!
I want revenge for that 106-0 loss in 1889.
Lycoming!
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Dec 6, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Slippery Rock!
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Dec 6, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Gettysburg!
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Dec 6, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
SUNY Binghamton!
Oh, wait, then we’d just be inviting another Auburn…
One player who transferred to Binghamton received credit for courses like Bowling I and Theories of Softball, according to the report. An assistant coach and a player discussed cash payments and having the assistant write part of a paper for him.
And at a meeting with admissions officials, the report said, an athletic official asked, "Why do you care if we take six players who don’t attend classes?"
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Dec 6, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Penn State Altoona!
Never mind that they don’t have a football team. We can just combine their flag football teams and let them borrow the uniforms from Altoona High.
My thought
is that the next two that would be added would probably be Missouri (fairly populous state with large media markets) and Notre Dame (duh).
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
I'm sorry.
I have always thought Mizzou was dropped as a lure. They were dropped to destabilize the Big XII. At ALL times, the goal was to destabilize the BE and BXII for three teams: Nebraska, Texas and ND. That’s why all the crap about Eastern teams was dropped – if the BE implodes because the ACC or C-USA takes teams, then the Big Ten gets ND by default. Mizzou? That’s the 4th most valuable team in the Big XII, and the top 2 can’t support that conference on their own. It was ALWAYS about those three teams. We got 1, and the next will join up when its contract ends with NBC.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Missouri
Yeah, I always thought Mizzou was considered only as a way to get Texas in. Mizzou on their own doesn’t bring much. Academically, they are a stretch, much like Nebraska was – but at least the Huskers have a massive football tradition and reputation to bring along.
If the Big Ten was just going to invite a school in order to bring in a large population, they’d have invited Rutgers.
I was glad Nebraska was added as a 12th team
And I’m gladder that they are our annual rival. 2 “elite” programs slugging it out each year. Way back than an annual Big 10/12 game against Rutgers or some other weak eastern foe.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"
Nebraska is elite, Penn State isn't.
51-27 is way eliter than 58-18 in a better conference.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
(that's past 6 seasons because that's how I roll)
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
False. You're using biased statistics.
Everyone knows that the only years you should count are 2000-2004.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
also, we beat Nebraska head to head in 2002
so that instantly discounts that year as a way to judge PSU against Nebraska
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 6, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
The only year for PSU vs Nebraska that counts is 1983 where we lost 43-7.
Never mind that they were known as the point-a-minute scoring explosion and played for the national title and we were rebuilding.
Were you not there for PSU-Nebraska in 2002?
That was one of the best games of my life. And all of a sudden, Nebraska looks funny when I’m typing it.
Save BSD
he's going along with
“the only time a game can be used as a measuring stick for the PSU program is when PSU loses” theme.
Sure, we beat Nebraska in 2002, but that doesn’t count. He should have also included the 2003 game with his 1983 game analysis, though.
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 7, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of stats....
I really believe that from the start——most of the Big10 didn’t want PSU for whatever reason—-that the Conference Always wanted to be the Western Conference. Not to be a downer, but have WE really ever had a “rival” in the league? Moist of our rivalries are contrived. WE hate tO$U, Mich, MST, etc., but they in turn don’t consider us a rival because of our overall record in the Big10 since joining. If the Big10 is an “open hand”, then PSU is the thumb.
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God." The Government is like the Mob, you can check out, but never leave.
Here's an honest question for the Big Ten to the East crowd:
how many times are you expecting to lose to these eastern schools? If we play Maryland, Cuse and Pitt every year for the next 20 years, what’s our record? I don’t see those series being competitive enough to develop rivalries, that’s always been my problem with this even though I like the idea of being more regional.
Of course there isn’t any doubt that all three of those schools are bad business decisions for the Big Ten.
Penn State has a winnig record against every football member, past, present, and future...
…in the Big East except of course the ones he’s never played (VT & UConn).
The overall record is 215-89-9 for a winning percentage of roughly 69%.
That’s pretty dominant.
"Winnig" = "winning" and "he's" = "they've".
Sorry…was in something opposing qbs were not this year – a rush.
since 1966
Penn State has a 63% winning percentage against Big Ten teams (86-50)
(though can’t claim a winning record against OSU, Michigan, or Wisky)
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 6, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
I see us losing to them more often than we lose to Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, and Northwestern.
That would essentially make them middle of the pack Big Ten teams. No shame in that.
Only one I don’t think we’ll ever lose to is Maryland. But just because we own these Eastern teams doesn’t mean the other conference teams will. It may be rock, scissors, paper. Iowa owns PSU, PSU owns Northwestern, but Northwestern owns Iowa. It might be something similar to that with Pitt/Cuse/Maryland/Rutgers/West Virginia and a team like Iowa.
Pitt beat Iowa in 2008, and Iowa beat PSU in 2008
Don’t you remember how much better Pitt was in 2008 than us? Or does it just get lost in all those other years Pitt is clearly the dominant team?
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 7, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I remember because it was so dumb.
First of all, Pitt beat them at home by 1 while PSU lost at Iowa (CW McCall’s alma mater, by the way) by 1. But better still was that same year PSU annihilated Oregon State 45-14 and Oregon State beat Pitt 3-0! Yet we didn’t hear any Pitt fans weighing in on that!
I love how idiotic Pitt fans are. They love to bash PSU and by association the Big 10 and our struggles against teams like Ohio State. Then I like to remind them what happened the last time they tried to run with the big dogs and played Ohio State (got killed 72-0) and how Pitt’s all time record against Big 10 teams is 25-57-2 for a stellar “winning” percentage of 31%!
Then there’s their trump card….the old “12-0 – we won the last time we played”. A great response to that is simply “48-14”, but an even better one is just to say “Ohio beat Pitt the last time they played, therefore Ohio is better than Pitt in all ways and for all time.”
Yeah, I know…bizarre post. But I just hate Pitt fans.
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