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Around SBN: Identifying The 19th-Best Team In Baseball

Forever DeChellis

When a team sits at 0-11 in conference, loses to two abject patsies in the non-conference schedule, and its best win is over a team currently sitting in Joe Lunardi's "Next Four Out" category, it's perfectly understandable for fans to demand the head coach's dismissal.  But this isn't about a bad coach / nice guy, or disasterous plays after timeouts.  It's not about weird substitution patterns, or the stunning lack of improvement among key players.

This is about reality, and the reality is that Penn State basketball is wildly successful to the only people who matter -- the spreadsheet enthusiasts in the athletic department. 

Scroogeingoldcoins_medium

Tim Curley, artist's rendering

 

The estimable Tailgate Shogun, a longtime friend and BSD commenteur rather familiar with the inner workings of Penn State, loves to tell me that PSU is eternally interested in two goals:  make lots of money, don't get sued.  Here's a poorly kept secret about Penn State basketball -- it's kind of profitable.  A flashback to the 2004-05 season, when Penn State finished 3-13 in the conference:

No Big Ten men's basketball team generated less revenue and less profit than the Lions in 2004-05, according to the Office of Post-secondary Education and the Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act (EADA). Total expenses came to $2.5 million, while revenues totaled just under $5.2 million. Northwestern, the closest program to Penn State at the depths of this ranking, grossed more than $6.7 million from less than $2.7 million in expenses. 

That's right, just Northwestern brought in more money than Penn State.  With incoming Big Ten television revenues set against a meager outlay of cash by Penn State, the men's program usually bagged a few million every year -- and certainly more today, now that the insanely profitable Big Ten Network has hit its stride.  Why?  The men's basketball program is run on the cheap.  Always has been, and probably always will. 

 

You Gotta Pay The Troll Toll

Ed DeChellis' reputation as a great guy can't be overstated.  Nobody wants to see him fail.  He came from a tough background, worked in steel mills during his younger days, survived cancer, donates countless hours to charity, runs a clean program, and does nothing in his personal or professional life to bring shame upon Penn State.  Okay, his teams lose a lot of games.  There's that.  He also works for relative peanuts, compared to his Big Ten colleagues.  A Right To Know request revealed that DeChellis' salary is $642,366, which seems to be an absurd amount until you look around the conference. For example, Bill Freaking Carmody "earns" $1,132,965 as Northwestern's coach

Here's the full list, as compiled by stltoday.com's Stu Durando last year:

Star-divide

1. Thad Matta, Ohio State, $2.5 million, according to the Associated Press and other sources when he received a raise in September 2007.

2. Tom Crean, Indiana, average of $2.36 million through 2018, according to the Indianapolis Star and other sources.

3. Tubby Smith, Minnesota, more than $1.8 million annually based on a $13 million, seven-year contract, according to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune and other sources.

4. Tom Izzo, Michigan State, $1.7 million, according to Fox News and and other sources.

5. John Beilein, Michigan, $1.3 million, according to multiple sources when he signed in April 2007.

6. Bo Ryan, Wisconsin, $1.25 million, according to multiple sources when he received a raise in April 2007. 

7. Todd Lickliter, Iowa, $1.2 million, according to his contract, which can be found on the internet divided into base pay ($650,000) and public relations/camps/TV-radio/apparel ($550,000).

8. Bill Carmody, Northwestern, more than $1.1 million, according to the school’s 2007 990 tax form (available online) and a report at charitynavigator.org, which quoted his salary at $1,132,965 as of March 2007.

9. Weber, $1 million, according to the university.

10. Matt Painter, Purdue, $843,000, according to the Indianapolis Star.

11. Ed DeChellis, Penn State, $500,000, according to the web site coacheshotseat.com

Obviously, DeChellis' number is incorrect, which is what happens when you depend upon something called "coacheshotseat.com".  These types of figures are always hard to nail down, but you get the basic idea here.  Penn State is lowballing its own program.  And it doesn't stop there -- Penn State has a tendency to lowball all of its coaches.  Let's go back to that 2006 Collegian article:

According to the reports, Penn State pays the head coaches of its 13 male teams an average of $92,520, a far lower average than at any other Big Ten school.

At Wisconsin, for instance, that same category yields a figure of over $320,000. At Ohio State almost $400,000. At Michigan State more than $410,000. This category, however, is not entirely reliable, as schools like Michigan State factor the cost of fringe benefits into their reports, while some other institutions do not, preferring instead to simply make those costs part of the total revenue reported.

...

But even if the costs of pensions and benefits were factored in for Penn State, it would likely not make up the difference in reported salaries. The cost of benefits, pensions and the like is typically around 30 percent of salary.  As is, Penn State's average reported salary for coaches of men's sports is $40,000 less than the next lowest Big Ten employer.  The Penn State average for coaches of women's sports, by the way, is just under $75,000.

[And let's not forget the ridiculous discount we're getting on Joe Paterno, either.  So if you have any dreams of Penn State hiring its next football coach from outside the current staff, forget it.  That's expensive as hell, but another discussion for another time.]

Of course, Cael Sanderson's salary (however it's structured) bumps up that average, but his compensation is largely due to some wealthy wrestling boosters pitching in and coming up with an obscene amount of cash for a wrestling coach.  The bulk of it is certainly not the athletic department's money.  The point is, Penn State isn't the type of place that is going to drop $1.5M on a basketball coach without a lot of outside money flowing in -- and that's not happening.  Have you ever even heard of a Penn State basketball booster?  Exactly.

In an era of overpaid coaches and bloated contracts, it's rare that a university gets what it pays for.  When it comes to men's basketball at Penn State, however, that's precisely what they get.  It's a program that has sniffed the fringes of the NCAA tournament once in DeChellis' tenure, a season that was ultimately torpedoed by Iowa's Jake Kelly and a pastry filled schedule that would make the Harlem Globetrotters blush.  Other than last season, DeChellis' tenure has been a failure -- a failure caused predominantly by an administration which has meticulously followed the Bill Bidwell / Donald Sterling model of running a team.

 

Success With Honor Spreadsheets

What is success in college athletics, really?  Nobody wants Penn State to go broke running their athletic department, especially given that the entire operation basically depends on (a) the continued financial success of the football program and (b) the mild profitability of the men's basketball program.  Penn State's athletic department, as you should know by now, is self-sufficient by design.  And guess what?  In a tough economic environment, it operates in the black, for which Tim Curley and his team should be strongly commended.  Their job is to run the university athletic program responsibly, not to win at all costs. 

In terms of  actual athletic results, Penn State does well enough.  For some, the standard for overall athletic prowess is the Directors' Cup standings.  Here's how Penn State has finished lately:

2008: 19th

2007: 9th

2006: 21st

2005: 15th

Of course, these standings are only useful if you think a women's golf championship is equivalent to a football national championship, as all sports are weighted equally in the rankings.  Regardless of the school, most fans care only about football and basketball.  Wrestling and hockey are niche sports with smaller, dedicated followings in certain states.  Most other sports are financial sinkholes, especially women's basketball and baseball.  Nobody profits from those sports, but they're played anyway.  They have to be financed somehow (thanks, JoePa!), and this brings us back to the curious situation of Tim Curley and Ed DeChellis.

 

"I'm just not ready to take that risk... of my life... on that gamble."

 

Essentially, Penn State is playing it safe with its basketball program.  They throw pennies at it.  It returns nickels.  Profit!  Wins and losses are immaterial in the broader picture, and that's why it's ultimately useless to get angry with Ed DeChellis and his players.  They're making the best (give or take an eleven game losing streak) of a bad situation.  Penn State basketball is essentially the Pittsburgh Pirates of Big Ten basketball.  Fans go through the same ritual every season -- irrational hope spawned by a theory something along the lines of, "well, if everything breaks right and a few teams catch the bubonic plague, we could be on the NCAA bubble." 

Winning basketball hasn't been a priority at Penn State for decades, if ever.  Looking at the last 40 years, you could count Penn State's NCAA tournament apperances on one hand -- and still have two fingers with nothing to do.  Coaches are permitted to chug along for as long as they run a clean, relatively congenial ship.  Say what you want about the way this season has unfolded, but the team hasn't quit yet, which prompted me to drop this comment in the "Buzzer Beaten" recap thread after the Minnesota game:

 

Let’s look at this rationally. How much does Penn State really care about winning basketball games? They refused to put any money into the program for years, at least until Ed begged them to give a quarter of a damn. After last season, Ed’s contract was extended through 2014. You can argue over whether that was a good idea, but you can’t change the fact that it happened. Firing Ed means buying Ed out — probably not at the full salary, but a significant chunk of it. Ed gets between 500k and 600k (so really, if the guy does get fired, let’s not feel too bad for him). So let’s go conservative and say that a buyout would have to be around $1.25M.

So we’re out $1.25M and have no basketball coach. Now, find another one, Curley! What do you think he’ll do? Go find the fabled "big name coach" that people always clamor for? Not bloody likely. Those cost money. More money than Joe Paterno gets — and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s actually a factor under consideration here. I hate to break it to you folks, but Big Name Coach ain’t coming to State College.

What’s left? Hiring another mid-major guy and hoping that he is okay with (1) minimal institutional support, (2) taking over the 10th or 11th best roster in a tough league, (3) competing with Pitt, the Philly schools, and the elite programs who occasionally come into Philly and poach the best of the best recruits. Oh, and (4) building the trust of a fanbase from zilch, (5) being in the constant shadow of the football program, and (6) being strictly forbidden to take any recruiting shortcuts in a sport that is even shadier than football when it comes to recruiting shortcuts. And that’s all before you consider the possibility that PSU will try to hire another guy with PSU ties, which of course is stupid considering our awful basketball history, but would not be a remotely surprising move by any means.

Really, the frustration shouldn’t even be with the losing as much as the lack of a clear, best option. It’s easy to say FIRE ED. Believe me, I know. But there are a lot of other factors in play here, mostly financial, partially ethical. A season like this wouldn’t be tolerated at 95% of other schools, but Penn State isn’t like a lot of other places (in both bad and good ways).

I don’t think Ed will be gone unless the team really embarrasses itself down the stretch — not just losing (which, yes, is embarrassing) but completely throwing in the towel, which they haven’t done yet.

 

If Penn State ever overcomes its losing basketball tradition, it won't be because of a coaching change or monster recruiting class.  It'll be from a cultural shift in the hierarchy of the athletic department -- a decision to make winning a priority by investing resources and energy into the program instead of being satisfied flirting with the NCAA bubble every eight years.  It's easy to sit back and shout like an idiot, "CURLEY SHOULD HIRE A BIG NAME COACH!"  Yeah, no kidding.  Name the Big Name Coach who is willing to take over this smoking crater of a program, in spite of all of the reasons listed in the quoted paragraphs above.  There isn't one.  And good luck finding a thriving mid-major coach who would take a chance on Penn State as his big jump into a major conference.  This job is a career-killer for anyone with aspirations of coaching a truly relevant program someday.  That's another reason why DeChellis was a perfect fit for PSU, outside of his willingness to accept the lowest salary in the conference -- this is his destination job, not North Carolina or UCLA.

For those of us who suffer along with this program (and I was once masochistic enough to purchase the ESPN GamePlan during a 1-15 conference season), it's time to wake up to the stark reality that Penn State doesn't care as much about Penn State basketball as its coaches, players, and fans.  Penn State doesn't believe that the basketball program is worth the investment.  They never have.  That's why the only option for PSU appears to be allowing Ed DeChellis to continue coaching, and hope against history and logic that he can eventually put a winning team on the floor. 

It's the profitable, risk-free position, after all.

Comment 132 comments  |  4 recs  | 

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Well then

This post should help with recruiting.

Penn State is a football school. It always has been and always will be. Curley can’t build up the basketball program because he’s too busy setting up alumni dinners so Joe can go collect thousand dollar handshakes. It’s a lot easier doing that than to actually build a basketball program. Football is where the money is. Anything the basketball team brings in is just gravy to him.

by BSD on Feb 12, 2010 9:53 AM EST reply actions  

That's what makes me so concerned about the culture around the AD.

What will happen if Tom Bradley coaches for 8 years and has a 60-40 record? Do we continue him on because the stadium is still full, he won a Cap One Bowl back in 2017 and firing coaches “isn’t what we do at Penn State”? Fun times being a Nittany Lion fan.

by Cairo on Feb 12, 2010 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Um, I'd say no.

The fans and boosters give a s**t about football. I mean, they REALLY give a s**t about football.

"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno

by ReadingRambler on Feb 12, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Frank Solich says hi!

Twitter: @scrappled
scrappled.com

"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee

by Run Up The Score on Feb 12, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

So...

Are you saying JoePa will finish his career by winning three national championships in four years?

"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno

by ReadingRambler on Feb 12, 2010 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Hey hey hey

That 1994 MNC was a gift to Solich’s predecessor. We don’t count that one around here.

by IndianaLion on Feb 12, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm willing to share.

That was the worst part about it.

"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno

by ReadingRambler on Feb 12, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Recruiting.

Seriously, doesn’t the man at least deserve some credit for actually bringing in recruits and keeping a full roster despite all of these troubles?

"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno

by ReadingRambler on Feb 12, 2010 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, he does.

I really believe Ed’s doing the best he can. It’s just such an uphill slog, given the administrative situation.

Twitter: @scrappled
scrappled.com

"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee

by Run Up The Score on Feb 12, 2010 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Is there a .....

football-centric school, at PSU’s level, with as traditionally poor of a men’s basketball program? Nebraska?

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Feb 12, 2010 10:04 AM EST reply actions  

Maybe Alabama.

Georgia isn’t brilliant either.

"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno

by ReadingRambler on Feb 12, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Bama

I remember them being ranked #1 in the country very briefly in either the late 90s or early 2000s. Auburn may not have been ranked #1 but they were in the top 5 around that time too. I even think Auburn was on the cover of SI. I can’t remember the exact years though.

by speedomike on Feb 12, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

They were ranked highly and still not selling out games on their campus.

Nobody cared.

Twitter: @scrappled
scrappled.com

"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee

by Run Up The Score on Feb 12, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

(I'm talking Auburn there.)

Twitter: @scrappled
scrappled.com

"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee

by Run Up The Score on Feb 12, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

And

They missed the tournament that year.

by STU Boy on Feb 12, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

They are like PSU

They have one good season a decade or so.

by STU Boy on Feb 12, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Virginia Tech, USC, Auburn to name a few.

by Cairo on Feb 12, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

I say we hire Tim Floyd.

"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno

by ReadingRambler on Feb 12, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll give you...

Va. Tech and maybe Auburn, but USC has some basketball tradition – insert Tim Floyd joke.

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Feb 12, 2010 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Auburn has Charles Barkley

And who was the other guy on that team?

by speedomike on Feb 12, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Chuck Person, maybe or

Chris Morris. I’ve been an Auburn fan all of my life and Barkley is the only Auburn basketball player whose name I know without having to google it. I’ve never developed an interest in basketball because neither Auburn nor Penn State were ever good. I’ll still watch them when they’re on tv and cheer for them, but I just can’t get into it like I do other sports.

For the glory

by Paige2PSU on Feb 12, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Chris Porter was

pretty good in the late 90s.

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Feb 12, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Also...

are Va. Tech and Auburn at PSU’s level?

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Feb 12, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Idk abiout Auburn

But VT is way better than we are

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on Feb 12, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure VT is *way* better than we are.

Tradition wise anyway. They’re not even more than a bubble team this year.

"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno

by ReadingRambler on Feb 12, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

The don't go 0-11 either

They’re a decent basketball program. We’re a bad one.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on Feb 12, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Fugi jumps off the train!

"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno

by ReadingRambler on Feb 12, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Virginia Tech has the 3rd highest

winning pct in the ACC since they joined. That was earlier this year, not sure how their season has gone since.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Feb 12, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I have to agree

with RUTS summation of the situation.
  As for the football program, the “Football Boosters” will not fall into complacency to allow that scenario to happen.
  It is sad that our Bball Boosters, if any exist, has accepted this standard.
  I will still be a PSU fan of all college sports. I respect the Success with Honor philosophy.

Settle it on the field!

by PSUncle1981 on Feb 12, 2010 10:09 AM EST reply actions  

That's really the problem

PSU fans have learned to live with a poor basketball program and not care. At least the older generation has. Basketball is just not a huge sport in central PA. But you can tell this younger generation does care. Hopefully when they graduate and get good paying jobs, some of them will give back to the program like some wrestling boosters did to bring in Cael.

by BSD on Feb 12, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I know you are from the former 717 current 570 Port....

I will give you that Football has and always will reign supreme in PA with wrestling being a solid #2. But high school basketball is big in beautiful central and NE PA (insert the enjoy…enjoy….enjoy man here). Williamsport has traditionally had a strong program over the years as do many of the Harrisburg schools. Hazelton and the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton schools always have a couple irish, italian and polish kids that can shoot the lights out. I think part of the problem is that PSU can not keep the local D-1 talent that exists in central and NE PA. If they did it would create even more excitement for the program.

 The University should know that people will follow Penn State hoops if the school puts out a winning program. The Bryce Jordan Center was packed the year Parkhill had the team competing for the Big 10 title. And the student support for PSU at the NIT last year was amazing. PSU fans (and the local area) can and will support Penn State hoops when it wins. Will they ever win on a consistent basis though? Not unless JoePA pressures the powers that be to do something about it. As for this year…..I really do think you can blame Ed for the team’s misery. The players we have ……have not progressed to the level that they should be at. Our talent level is definitely higher than we have showed as Ed has done an OK job recruiting (bringing in some solid frosh this year and getting a commitment from Taron Buie). He simply has not developed the talent or his schemes to fit the talent that he has. Will PSU do anything about it though…..probably not. DeChillis will have a couple more years to hang himself before he is pushed out like Jerry Dunn.

I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Feb 12, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Curious

But how many players from Central and NE PA actually turn into starters on good teams. McNamara, then who? Many of these guys get exposed at the next level because you need to be able to do more than shoot to play with the big boys.

by STU Boy on Feb 12, 2010 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Bob Sura.

But really, that’s about it. There are lots of kids who are good high school players, but rarely make any impact on high D-1 teams.

Twitter: @scrappled
scrappled.com

"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee

by Run Up The Score on Feb 12, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Lisicky was pretty good, he was from Whitehall.

Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.

by jesse. on Feb 12, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Up to 3

But now we’re digging far into the past.

by STU Boy on Feb 12, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Lisicky was not that freakin long ago....jezze

Billy Owens was from Carlisle…..pretty good NBA career. I will do some more research to see what current NE/central PA kids are on D1 rosters.

I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Feb 12, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh

He was recruited around 15 years ago. This decade is recent to me. My point is we’re stretching to find good players who have an impact from these areas if we are going back that far. Owens was from the 80s, and was a huge bust in the NBA. Amazing college player though.

by STU Boy on Feb 12, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

there may not be big names but there is talent

Usually a team from Nepa will run deep in the Bball state playoffs. One player a progam makes not

Never insult seven men when all you have is a six shooter --COL Sherman T Potter

by psu in the w-b on Feb 12, 2010 7:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Pitt...

recently had a decent kid, Aaron Gray (sp?), from the Allentown area. I believe he rides the pine for some NBA team (I can’t watch NBA basketball).

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Feb 12, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the Bulls

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

by Roland86 on Feb 12, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Panthers_men’s_basketball#NBA_Players

2007 – Aaron Gray to the Bulls (recently traded to New Orleans)
2009 – DeJuan Blair of Pittsburgh to the Spurs.

by SlingStone on Feb 12, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Gerrycuse!

I had to guard McNamara twice in high school. Not the most pleasant memories of my life. Really nice guy, though, and it was easy to root for him in college.

by gumbercules on Feb 13, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

chevy troutman

from williamsport

For the glory

by lionalum05 on Feb 15, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Again, these players aren't that talented.

Ed has gotten all he can get out of Brooks, Jones, and Jackson.

"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno

by ReadingRambler on Feb 12, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Really?

Isnt there a former Mr. Kentucky Basketball player in that group?

I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Feb 12, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Again

Something is fishy when a Mr. Kentucky isn’t recruited by Kentucky. My guess (and this is speculation), weak division.

by STU Boy on Feb 12, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Brooks

He was a raw talent. Kentucky showed some interest, but Brooks was like their plan C player.

by BSD on Feb 12, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the info

I really didn’t know. I was just guessing.

by STU Boy on Feb 12, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I think DJ's the only one who qualifies there.

Jones wasn’t a big-time recruit by any means, but Brooks was quite the coup back then.

Twitter: @scrappled
scrappled.com

"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee

by Run Up The Score on Feb 12, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, maybe he wasn't quite the coup we thought?

"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno

by ReadingRambler on Feb 12, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

You know why mid-majors make a run in the NCAA Tournament?

9 times out of 10 it’s because they have a senior point-guard, and/or a senior dominated team. When Penn State has seniors out on the floor, they’re competitive. Tons of freshmen, no dice.

Experience is how you compete. Last years squad, lot’s of experience, won games, looked like they knew what they were doing. This years, not so much. It’s not really all that complicated.

Go back and look at the prior Penn State teams that were good. The UCLA tourney team had seniors, Freddie Barnes PG, James Barnes PF and Ed Fogel C, if my memory serves. The Arkansas tourney team, that spent time in the top ten for christ sake, had Lisicky, Crispin and Matt Gaudio (who had to be 32 at the time). Last year, Cornely and some other guys.

This team is young, that’s 90% of the problem.

Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.

by jesse. on Feb 12, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

agreed

I’ve been making the joke for years that Penn State hoops depends on what we can get out of the 25 year-olds. When we’re good, it’s because we have guys like Cornley who are physically, mentally, and emotionally more mature than the players they’re playing against, who happen to be six years younger than them.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Feb 12, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Remember when Dan Earl played here for about 16 years?

Then just started coaching.

Side note: I remember being a younger lad and being genuinely excited to get Dan Earl’s autograph. He was my favorite player.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

by Roland86 on Feb 12, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Totally agree, experience is everything.

UNC this year is the perfect example. They have what, like 7 McDonalds All-Americans, and they aren’t even a bubble team at this point. They have no experience, and it shows.

by PSUmob on Feb 12, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

How did I miss this comment?

"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09

twitter: @princessblueezy

by kmblue on Feb 15, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Point taken

I grew up in Williamsport, so I know what you’re saying. Fans enjoy going to a high school basketball game, but I think that’s mostly because there’s nothing else to do in January and February. I can remember several games when Williamsport would go down to play a game in Philly and get their tails kicked. Central PA just doesn’t generate the talent that the inner city schools do.

by BSD on Feb 12, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

True

But they also beat teams out of Camden, Glen Mills and Reading (w/ Donyall Marshall).

I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Feb 12, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

MANNY GORDON nice reference

Never insult seven men when all you have is a six shooter --COL Sherman T Potter

by psu in the w-b on Feb 12, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Success with honor

To have success with honor, there needs to be success.

Going 0-fer and being on the bubble of the big dance once every 8 years is far from successful. I can only imagine how the life of DuhChellis is, waking up in the morning knowing you can’t be fired. Open up the collegian and read an article on how losing brings a team closer. Maybe read the CDT and see a nice article by Jeff Rice talking about how David Jackson is having a breakout year.

It must be a great life when you have no commitment to excellence, no striving for a better tomorrow, no personal responsibilities. Just make sure some players graduate, no one rubs one out in the library and hope to god no one gets arrested. What a life some people get to live because they are friends with the Athletic Director.

FireJayPa.com

Where every day is take your son or daughter to work

by FireJayPa on Feb 12, 2010 10:43 AM EST reply actions  

What were you saying?

Oh, it’s just you again.

"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno

by ReadingRambler on Feb 12, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Um...

David Jackson IS having a breakout year.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on Feb 12, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Lies.

This is all Jay’s fault. And probably Daryll Clark too.

"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno

by ReadingRambler on Feb 12, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

You're naive.

"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno

by ReadingRambler on Feb 12, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Are we still firing JayPa?

Does he have a “Sore Loserman” bumper sticker on his car too? I mean Jesus, that’s so over at this point.

Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.

by jesse. on Feb 12, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

You're focusing your anger on the wrong person again.

Twitter: @scrappled
scrappled.com

"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee

by Run Up The Score on Feb 12, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Relativity

When you’re looking at PSU basketball, DeChellis, while his record is pretty abysmal, for a program with almost support, relatively speaking, he’s been doing a fair job. Sure we’re not going to the tourney every year. But you cannot disregard the success we had last season. For PSU basketball, that was the equivalent of the fat chick getting told she’s cute, i.e. HUGE for the program’s self esteem. Had we not had that success last year, we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now, most likely we would have tried to find someone to replace Ed. But you can’t disregard that he had a role in last year’s successes for a program with no major history, or at least a consistent history of success.

By your measure of “success with honor, without success” we should just drop the entire basketball program. It has never had consistent success as far as I know, except for the few rare occasions.

by dawsonPSU10 on Feb 12, 2010 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure we’re not going to the tourney every year

Yea but to win the tourney you have to at least make the field of 64 plus play-in game for that last 16 seed.


By your measure of "success with honor, without success" we should just drop the entire basketball program. It has never had consistent success as far as I know, except for the few rare occasions.

Then maybe the school should drop the program, since it seems that no one cares. Tell me, if no one misses it and it goes away – what’s the big deal?

FireJayPa.com

Where every day is take your son or daughter to work

by FireJayPa on Feb 12, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

C'mon

It’s evident to me you have no clue what Penn State is all about. Why do you even associate yourself with this school?

by BSD on Feb 12, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Why do I?

Let’s see, because I went to Penn State. Oh because I graduated from Penn State…I donate to the NLC , I’m a season ticket holder for football, because I love the town. Because I love the strong academics and engineering programs they have to offer.

Why else? Oh because like so many others I spent some of the best years of my life in State College and can never speak highly enough of how important a college education is.

Just because I want to see the team maybe go to the tourney once a decade and see people held accountable for their jobs people think I’m the guy.

You know what you’re right? The kids are having fun going 0-11…losing brings them closer. I’ll read the CDT article on Jeff Brooks haircut and how Eddie DuhChellis is a great person off the court.

Let’s play some sweet caroline, some zombie nation and some Bon Jovi. Clearly no one cares about the team so just make a big show about it. Maybe they can have $1 hotdog night at the BJC and start decorating the black curtains.

We are like sPitt football at this point with the Yellow Outs. But at least no one is getting arrested and they are getting a free education. And no one has cranked one out in the library lately.

FireJayPa.com

Where every day is take your son or daughter to work

by FireJayPa on Feb 12, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

whoa there.

Pitt hasn’t been shut out by conference opponents since ‘98. I’m sure PSU will bounce back eventually.

by SlingStone on Feb 12, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's your problem

You only come around when the basketball team is losing to complain. When the football team loses a game or two you come around demanding Joe and Jay get fired. But when the football team is winning Big Ten Championships and the basketball team is winning the NIT, you’re suddenly too busy to come around here and offer a little praise.

I think your perspective on the program is way off.

by BSD on Feb 15, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Mike...

Stop indulging the troll.

"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09

twitter: @princessblueezy

by kmblue on Feb 15, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Success can be defined in many ways

Joe Paterno said in that Sporting News article, " I think kids ought to come to college to come to college, and play football as an extracurricular activity. And when it goes beyond that, where the football becomes more important than the whole educational experience, they’re picking the wrong spot. "

If these kids come to Penn State to play basketball and end up graduating and having a successful non-NBA career, then the program has at least one good measure of success.

For the glory

by Paige2PSU on Feb 12, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

not to get too personal

but I want to know where to invest some money. In what field are you currently striving for excellence?

by The JuggerNitt on Feb 12, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

FireJayPa

It must be a great life when you have no commitment to excellence, no striving for a better tomorrow, no personal responsibilities

He’s obviously one of the most respected, successful members in his field, so I’d like to invest in him and/or his company.

by The JuggerNitt on Feb 12, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s obviously one of the most respected, successful members in his field, so I’d like to invest in him and/or his company.

I’m not the most respected, but I know if I showed up to work for 8 years and the closest thing I could give my boss was some software that compiled but didn’t really work, I’d be thrown out the door. Actually if I showed up to work and didn’t turn over any working code in one build cycle I’d be thrown out the door.

But if you’d like to invest money into the stock market, look at INTC. Great company with solid dividends

FireJayPa.com

Where every day is take your son or daughter to work

by FireJayPa on Feb 12, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Just going out and getting a new coach isn't going to solve Penn State's problems.

I’ve compared Penn State’s basketball team to the Indiana football team before. If we go out and hire a new coach, then we’ll basically be the Illinois football team after hiring Ron Zook.

Sure, they had that Rose Bowl berth gifted to them in 2007, and sure, they were 9-4 (6-2 Big Ten that year), but how is that really any different than Penn State last year (other than Illinois got the gift of a BCS bowl, while PSU was the first team out of the NCAA tourney)? And other than that year, they’ve been a bottom barrel football team. Maybe Zook will be fired from Illinois soon, but is that really going to improve their situation at all? They’ll just bring in the next coach who will face the same issues: being the coach at a bottom dweller team in a good conference.

Yes, it is easier to turn around a basketball team and make it to the tourney, but as it stands at Penn State with the facilities, history, and prestige, no one is going to be able to have sustained success at Penn State.

by The JuggerNitt on Feb 12, 2010 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd for sheer effort.

Nicely done. One thing that bothers me, and this isn’t RUTS doing, but average coaching salary seems kind of dumb with so many outliers, I’d me much more interested in median salary if we are really trying to figure out what the big picture looks like, and not just an extension of football and bball coach recruiting.

I know about your diabolical plan.

by KevinHD on Feb 12, 2010 10:49 AM EST reply actions  

Not to mention...

… PSU has a very high number of programs — 29 varsity NCAA at PSU vs e.g. 23 at Wisconsin. Each small sport you add is going to bring that average down further. Between Paterno’s tiny salary and DeChellis’s, I’m not sure that the rest of the PSU coaches are being skimped on vs those at other similar schools.

by elefantstn on Feb 12, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

That's a function of a lack of data, really.

And the fact that Joe Paterno’s salary may not have been factored into the equation (because nobody knew what it was at that time). It was difficult to find any concrete numbers.

Twitter: @scrappled
scrappled.com

"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee

by Run Up The Score on Feb 12, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

No I totally understand, not anything you can do about it.

But fun with numbers: Say PSU and OSU pay all their non-ref coaches $75K (made up) and each have 29 varsity teams. Knowing what we know about Tres, Thad, Joe and Ed, the averages work out to (about):

PSU: $103k
OSU: $242k

I know about your diabolical plan.

by KevinHD on Feb 12, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

No, those numbers are right

PSU has to provide total salary information for Title IX (I think?) reasons. Data available here: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDetails.aspx?756e697469643d32313437373726796561723d32303038267264743d322f31322f323031302031313a30383a313820414d

Dunno whether that link will hold up, but you can search at ope.ed.gov pretty easily.

by elefantstn on Feb 12, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

I believe the top part is wrong

The way I read it is that the article said that we made the least of all big ten basketball teams, Northwestern was simply the closest to the bottom (us), not a good thing however i am surprised that they do make a couple million dollars

by PSUgavemeAnAlcoholproblem on Feb 12, 2010 10:53 AM EST reply actions  

Ok, maybe I’m just reading this wrong, but you seem to be drastically misinterpreting the first quote in the post (the one from the collegian) My understanding of it after checking the article itself is that Penn State is the LEAST profitable basketball team in the Big Ten. Meaning we make way less money than we could and that we spend about the same as Northwestern to do so. That means that we’re leaving a ton of money on the table that could potentially be tapped into with a more successful program that actually draws fans. Additionally, if the goal of the Athletic depart is to make money, then they’re not being as effective as they could be. The implication is that Penn State is under performing financially compared to everyone else in the conference. A very bad place to be.

by Ibleedblueandwhite on Feb 12, 2010 11:04 AM EST reply actions  

But what they are actually doing

is taking the profit at no risk and, at the end of the day, being able to balance the AD’s books. It’s a risk/reward thing, and spending an extra $5M over 5 years on coaching doesn’t mean you’ll make an extra $10M in profit. You also would have a tough time going back to the Ed Model after an experiment like that.

I know about your diabolical plan.

by KevinHD on Feb 12, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Right.

Maybe I didn’t communicate it properly. Made sense in my head.

Essentially, PSU is investing in bonds and going for the sure-fire return while the rest of the conference is taking more of a risk with their programs.

Twitter: @scrappled
scrappled.com

"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee

by Run Up The Score on Feb 12, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

No I think you did a good job.

I know about your diabolical plan.

by KevinHD on Feb 12, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I get the idea, I’m just not sure that the lack of risk is actually true. I obviously don’t have the financials of other teams in front of me, but it seems that Northwestern is not a great comparison. We might be better off looking at Iowa, who (and I’m only guessing) probably has a coach in our pay range, but apparently is making more as a program than we are and that Northwestern. Even if we assume that Northwestern is an apt comparison, the extra .5 million they are paying their coach is apparently earning them an additional 2.5 million a year over where we are. Thats a 500% roi and a relationship that generally seems to hold true at the other programs in the conference. It seems that Penn State may actually be penny smart and pound stupid when it comes to the b-ball program if they’re following the strategy you’re suggesting.

by Ibleedblueandwhite on Feb 12, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

BTW

I don’t mean to come across as douchey, I was just confused reading the opening.

by Ibleedblueandwhite on Feb 12, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I know, no offense taken at all.

Twitter: @scrappled
scrappled.com

"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee

by Run Up The Score on Feb 12, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

No one knows for sure, could be very true.

Anther thing to keep in mind though, penn state has essentially no basketball facilities. Upgrading the coach might also involve mulit-million dollar upgrades facilities, which adds to the risk.

I know about your diabolical plan.

by KevinHD on Feb 12, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Isn't joefromboalsburg

a psu hoops boster? Or wasn’t he one before they moved to the BJC? I got that impression from reading the comments about great games in Rec Hall (which was a great post, incidentally).

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Feb 12, 2010 11:06 AM EST reply actions  

It depends what you mean by "booster"

If you mean 15 year season ticket holder from about 1984-1997, who knew the coaches personally, and met most of the players, then yeah, he was a booster.

If you mean a guy who donated millions of dollars to the program, than no, he wasn’t.

Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.

by jesse. on Feb 12, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I figured as much

I was just hoping to prompt someone posting the picture of the dog.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Feb 12, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

How was the Women's basketball...

team so good for so long? Does it really come down to the fact that PSU is in the middle of nowhere, a very pretty nowhere, but nowhere nonetheless and can’t recruit against the Philly schools (really just Temple and Nova – St. Joes has one decent class every 15 years) and Pitt?

Never mistake effort for achievement.

by Esteban d' Amur on Feb 12, 2010 11:11 AM EST reply actions  

Because we were one of the first teams to offer D1A basketball at a high level,

and while our fuunding for men’s basketball is low, my suspicion is that the women’s team recieves the same or similar contributions, and is well funded by womens hoops standards.

Also, and it’s worth mentioning, that believe it or not, Rene Portland was once a highly respected women’s basketball coach. It was sad what happened to her in a lot of ways, she just became a dinosaur. She failed to change with the times, but while I disagree with a lot of the things she expoused (which is a big reason the program went in the toilet), it’s not like she suddenly got outed in 2002. Her policies were well known, and accepted, by the entire University community for the better part of 20 years.

Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.

by jesse. on Feb 12, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Never thought about it like that, probably hard for them no to know. Interesting.

I know about your diabolical plan.

by KevinHD on Feb 12, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

In the late 1980's she flat out said she would never allow a lesbian on the team.

It’s not that nobody cared, it was that she was generally supported. Seriously, if you’ve ever read a Supreme Court Opinion from the 1980’s on sexual orientation, they read like segregation opinions from the 1880’s. Justice Scalia once wrote that sexual orientation was a choice akin to being a Cubs fan.

Times change, and Rene did a poor job of changing with them. That’s on her, but those comments from the 80’s never went away. I mean they try to use “Penn State doesn’t support black athletes” against us in football all the time, and that’s demonstrably bull-shit. Imagine if there were proof they could point to.

I’ll even throw her a couple of bones;

What’s the easiest joke that ever gets made about female athletes? Bunch of Lesbians, right? Well imagine it’s the mid-1970’s, and that’s not a joke, nearly as much as it’s the preception of the entire sport. It’s the kind of perception that discorages women from playing sports, and that’s bull-shit. What’s the remedy? I don’t know, but Rene came up with going out of her way to make a point that our players weren’t lesbians. Not a terrible sales pitch in 1980.

Jennifer Harris didn’t get thown off the team for being a lesbian (she isn’t one), she got thrown off the team for dressing dumpy. Coaches get to tell players how to dress, they just do. Harris broke a team rule that had been in place for decades when she got there, and that she was aware of when she signed with the team. As I’ve argued before, if you think that Joe Paterno would’t have anything to say about Evan Royster wearing a mesh t-shirt with short shorts, you’ve lost your mind.

Coach Portland’s peronal politics were dated, badly, and it was well past time for her to step down. But it’s not fair in my mind that she take the bullet for the enitre University, and huge chunks of our fanbase, as the “bigot”. That’s just my two cents.

Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.

by jesse. on Feb 12, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Rene Portland

Great basketball coach. Then one day she got a few lesbians on her team, and it turned out that Rene Portland didn’t like lesbians. And at a liberal school like Penn State, that was the end of Rene Portland.

by BSD on Feb 12, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

/succincted

"We just forgot our pants. Nothing against the team or anything like that." -- take a guess

by jtothep on Feb 12, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

FYI

53-47 now

If you haven’t voted…please?

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on Feb 12, 2010 11:16 AM EST reply actions  

Woo! RUTS!

And daaammmnn: meticulously followed the Bill Bidwell / Donald Sterling model of running a team. The Pirates of college basketball. Zingers.

Bonus props for effective selfquoting.

Thanks for not hanging up the ole blogging keyboard this winter.

"We just forgot our pants. Nothing against the team or anything like that." -- take a guess

by jtothep on Feb 12, 2010 11:51 AM EST reply actions  

How was the construction of a 15,000 seat multipurpose arena financed?

I doubt it was done solely from the general fund, and I would guess it was with some support of boosters-and I doubt it was just football boosters wanting a place to have TailGreat. There had to be some desire for the creation of a quality basketball program.

I just can’t believe the AD’s long-term vision for the BJC was as a full-to-the-rafters concert venue and a half-full basketball venue.

by Cairo on Feb 12, 2010 11:51 AM EST reply actions  

From what I understand

The BJC was built by a third party. The university “leases” it for their sporting events. This is why only the basketball teams play there and they don’t have wrestling and volleyball matches there.

by BSD on Feb 12, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Interesting.

So there really is little incentive for the University to invest in the venue.

by Cairo on Feb 12, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

I looked for that info, too.

Can’t figure out who actually owns the BJC.

Twitter: @scrappled
scrappled.com

"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee

by Run Up The Score on Feb 12, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Ownership

Their website ishttp://www.bjc.psu.edu/ is PSU-hosted and their “contact us” address is a @psu.edu address.

According to their “Arena History” page:

“From a university standpoint this gives us a facility to use for university functions and athletics,” said Bill McKinnon, former vice-president for business and operations at Penn State. “But we’re also looking for it to become a civic center for the middle of this state. We wanted to build a facility that not only served the university’s needs, but also the region’s needs.” The Jordan Center, funded through state and private dollars at a cost of $55 million, was built to be a major source of athletic, academic, conference and entertainment excitement in Central Pennsylvania for decades to come.

by SlingStone on Feb 12, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

My impression is...

that if the the University doesn’t own the BJC, it owns the company that does. The Basketball teams do pay to “rent” the facility, but I believe that’s very much akin to taking money out of your right pocket and putting it into your left pocket.

The reasoning behind this is that I’d imagine the BJC is a for profit entitity, and how that jives with the rest of the University’s tax status is for much wealthier attorneys than I to figure out.

Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.

by jesse. on Feb 12, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps that's the case.

Or perhaps PSU own the land and physical structure, but has an external contractor for management rights.

For example the Petersen Events Center certainly appears to be university owned, but it’s “managed” by an international arena company, SMG World (who also manages the Mellon arena, even though that is owned by the city’s Sports & Exhibition Authority).

by SlingStone on Feb 12, 2010 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

BJC Ownership

If the University doesn’t own it, that would explain a lot of stuff we go through with THON.

Let's Go State

by rmcmillen50 on Feb 13, 2010 2:50 AM EST up reply actions  

46 hours....

whimps.

Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.

by jesse. on Feb 13, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I was under the impression that the BJC was part of our "upgrade facilities to join the Big Ten" deal

so even though we don’t play football there, it is basically because of the football team.

I could definitely be wrong here, though.

by The JuggerNitt on Feb 12, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Sooooooooo

If the university doesn’t care about it’s basketball program, why should we? Why should anyone?

Seriously.

by catesinator on Feb 12, 2010 12:12 PM EST reply actions  

I'm pretty sure I wrote boy's soul

Artemis, did I write boy’s soul?

"Have I ever told the story of when I met Miley Cyrus?"

by Jeff Junstrom on Feb 12, 2010 1:54 PM EST reply actions  

Great recap, RUTS

As I’ve said before, PSU just isn’t a basketball school. It would be nice if we were, but most of the fan base just doesn’t care. People can point to last year and say “look at the great turnout we had” but we didn’t really have that good of a turnout for most of the season. It seems like more people made the trek to Madison Square Garden than they did to most of the BJC games. “Why is that?” you might ask. My answer: we are a bandwagon fan base when it comes to basketball, and a lot of people probably rode those buses more for the experience than anything else.

Say we were able to recreate the relative success we had last year, but on a year to year basis. How many busloads do you think we would send out to NYC for our 4th NIT appearance in a row?

Sure, we’d get fired up for any NCAA appearances, but how many of those would we really get?

So with pretty much EVERY coach that PSU would bring in to replace ED, even if we are more successful, we still play in the Big 10, and still would be in the bottom half of teams pretty much every year. I just don’t see any move where PSU would break into the MSU/OSU/Wisky/Indiana/Purdue group (on a regular basis). So what will all that change and money get us? Maybe a team that on average goes 5-11 or 6-10 instead of 2-14 or 3-13 (Hey, maybe we can go out, pay twice as much money, and bring in a Lickliter, a Carmody, or even a Beilein, I sure am jealous of those 3 to 5 wins they have). Sure it is more respectable, but it still isn’t really all that respectable, and then 4 or 5 years down the line everyone will be calling for the new coach to be fired.

So unless we have a radical shift in philosophy at Penn State when it comes to funding non-football athletics for a sustained period, and are able to somehow out-recruit Pitt, Nova, Temple, St. Joes, Maryland, Syracuse, OSU, and all the other states that border us, and are able to find a good coach to come work for the cheap, then all a new hire is going to do is keep us in the same place.

Heck, even if we are able to find a coach that could bring us some success, he’d probably get hired out from under us by a big time program when they need a new coach.

by The JuggerNitt on Feb 12, 2010 2:17 PM EST reply actions  

Penn Staters are sports fans

If the hoops team was good, there is no doubt in my mind the people would show up.

by speedomike on Feb 12, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, about 9,000 of them most nights.

As opposed to the 7,000 they draw for Big Ten games now.

Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.

by jesse. on Feb 12, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

That would still mean 40,000 more fans in a 20 game home season.

Get them to spend $15 a piece and you could easily pay a head coach an extra couple 100K. The overhead would largely be the same.

by Cairo on Feb 12, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

so we'd bring in $600k more a year

if we sustained that many more fans over the course of every season. I don’t know how much of that would go to taxes, but let’s just say it allows us to then pay our coach $1 million a year.

This is assuming that just bringing in a coach it going to be able to sustain enough success to bring in the extra fans on a continued basis, and that none of that money goes to the rest of the athletic department or facility improvements or anything.

So realistically we’d maybe have enough to give the coach $800k, and are we really going to be able to bring a coach to Penn State that will be good enough to work against all the other factors going against the school as a basketball program to actually increase the wins enough to consistently bring in enough fans to fund them?

And let’s not forget any buyout we’d have to pay DeChellis. So now we have even less money, and fast approaching what we currently pay DeChellis, further reducing the likelihood that we’ll be able to land a coach who can come in and make a big enough impact that we could afford him.

by The JuggerNitt on Feb 12, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly

people see the apathy from the athletic department and the awful results on the court and probably think to theselves “if the school doesn’t care, why should I?”.

However, put some resources into the program, and at least finish in the middle of the big ten with some consistency and people will get excited.

It’s tough to get excited about the shit sammich that is PSU basketball

by brd119 on Feb 12, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I was excited last year

maybe we should get that guy to coach us.

by The JuggerNitt on Feb 12, 2010 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Great write up

Here’s my issue…the university has built it’s brand around “success with honor”, when really it’s “success if profitable”. I fear for when Paterno retires and the school has to pay the going market rate for a coach, internal or external…cuz you know the next guy is getting a raise. Maybe the STEP program will foll the coffers enough to get Curley and company comfortable enough to pay market rates for coaches.

As a NLC/Golden Lion Society/AA member, I’m bombarded with solictations for money, multiple times a year, and I am constantly being told how cash-strapped the university is…it’s gets tiring since it would appear that money is not being put back into the athletic program, rather it is just going into the bottom line.

by brd119 on Feb 12, 2010 4:18 PM EST reply actions  

Exceptionally

Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.

by jesse. on Feb 12, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

"As a NLC/Golden Lion Society/AA member"

phew, I thought I was the only one who was a member of all these Penn State groups AND Alcoholics Anonymous…

maybe we could be each other’s sponsor since we have similar interests

For the glory

by lionalum05 on Feb 15, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

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