Big Ten Expansion And Jim Delany's Secret Negotiating Tactic
by Run Up The Score on Feb 18, 2010 1:32 PM EST
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These topics and much more are discussed on the Black Heart Gold Pants podcast, with super special guests Sean Keeley (from SB Nation's mothership and SBN's Syracuse blog, Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician) and my lovely self. We take on the eastern expansion candidates: Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers, and even Maryland. It's nearly a half hour of fun, though the proverbial money shot is at the 23:00 mark as Oops Pow details Jim Delany's decidedly NSFW powers of persuasion.
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE.
If you order now, you'll also receive another BHGPodcast for free, featuring Burnt Orange Nation head honcho Peter Bean and M Rock Nation's Bill C., as they discuss the Big 12 candidates for annexation. It's SBNation corporate synergy at its finest!
Visit BHGP for the direct link, or subscribe through iTunes.
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you so nd dig tal in you comm ts
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
lol, yeah, not the best connection, was it?
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 18, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Which was weird because they didn't say anything about it at the time.
Traitorous Iowan bastards!
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Feb 18, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
That was pretty fun
Thanks again for not retiring.
I’m trippin on the media differences right now (could be the second huge glass of wine), but is there something about audio that gets a little closer to the meat? Cuts to the chase? Weeds out extra shite? Cliche to be named later?
Or is it the restricted contributors (immediately excluding amateur opionholders)? In any case, was nice to (hopefully) hear the end of the geography point (moo). I think I learned a few other things:
- you’ve got some decent Western PA ‘spect, at least in Iowa
- Mizzou is the drunk girl at the party
- Big East is unlikely unless tripled up
- Maryland sounds like it’s the only place not yet explored ad nauseum, and you handled relative ignorance of its possibilities nicely (Williams and the AD, provocative mention of eyeballs from DC & Balmer)
Cool stuff. Thanks.
"We just forgot our pants. Nothing against the team or anything like that." -- take a guess
Still not sure why a BSD poster (PSU fan) was used to "represent" Pitt's feeling on the Big Ten
The comments did not seem even remotely close to the actual feeling and sentiment of the Pitt fan base and the Big Ten.
Gorman (PSU alumnus) wrote a good article this which better reflects the real feelings of the Pitt fan base (outside of overrating the Big Ten in as far as in-conference competition when it comes to actual on the field play, though the Big Ten is a good conference without a doubt for football).
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_667918.html
what that article doesn't point out
is that by moving to the Big Ten, Pitt athletics would make about 10 times as much money as they currently do, even if they’re just an also ran in the Big 10 compared to being the Big East #1 or 2. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn’t be able to build an overall better program, even while their record may not show it.
This article is basically like saying, “I’m going to stay in the minor leagues (this is more in reference to $, but I like the jab at the quality of the teams as well, even though originally unintended) because I’m more competitive here. If I move to the Big Leagues, sure I’ll make a heckuva lot more money, but I won’t win as much.”
And the Backyard Brawl? I mean sure, rivalries are usually a regional thing that the rest of the nation usually doesn’t care about, but I can list a dozen or so rivalries I would rather watch than the Backyard Brawl, and I’m even from Pennsylvania. Even if Pitt were to join the Big 10, they could still play the Backyard Brawl if it was that meaningful. You can find examples from teams from every major conference who have yearly rivalries with nonconference members (Michigan, MSU, and Purdue with ND. USC with ND. The Florida schools. Heck, with the talk of Texas joining the Big 10, the Red River Rivalry is MUCH bigger than the Backyard Brawl).
The only point of this article that I agree with is that Pitt would be giving up a good thing with basketball, but it isn’t like the Big 10 is that much worse of a basketball conference.
And of course, this is a “why it is bad for Pitt” but what makes the match even worse is that Pitt brings virtually NOTHING to the Big 10 that can’t be matched, or improved upon, with about 10 other schools.
But you have me stumped why RUTS was representing Pitt…probably cuz the guys over at BHGP don’t know any Pitt bloggers.
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 19, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
You posted everything I would have said
and did a better job of it. Tip of the hat to you, sir.
Computers rank me number 1, blame the BCS...it's their fault.-Joe Budden
Gorman writes from the fan perspective...
…and IMO should only factor in the field and court. Yes, Pitt would make more money in the Big Ten without a doubt. Dont think anyone would argue against that, but there are non-monetary negatives (mainly basketball, not being a mid-west team, and outside of PSU having no history of playing the other school). Its like saying would PSU join the MAC if they could promise more money than the Big Ten? Of course the answer is no because there are other non-monetary factors involved.
Pitt could compete in the Big Ten (just like beating a decent Iowa team two seasons ago, despite that only being a one game sample). They would be like the rest of the conference and behind Ohio State (and occasionally Michigan (though that will take another coach) and PSU)). Just look at Northwestern, who finished fifth in the conference.
The Backyard Brawl is a good rivalry that is always mentioned. Its not UM/OSU or the Red River Rivalry, but it is in those second tier of rivalries and one of the better football rivalry games in the northeast. Your right though that Pitt could still schedule and would schedule WVU if they were to join the Big Ten.
The Big East in basketball is another level than the Big Ten. Particular match-ups and at different times in the year, a Big Ten teams could beat a Big East team (look at the 2-5 record this year of BE/Big10). But there is no other conference that every week (if not back-to-back) your playing a ranked opponent. Look at Georgetown who is the 10th ranked team in the nation but sits at 6th place in the Big East. No other conference where you are going to see that. Sometimes it is a detriment, as commentators have said the grueling Big East schedule hurts BE teams come time for the NCAA Tournament (including the BE Tournament, where teams generally play more ranked teams than they would playing in the NCAA tournament).
Pitt brings things or has common areas with other Big Ten teams and what the Big Ten is looking for in an additional member. What they dont have is the number one reason the Big Ten is expanding is to gain more financially through the Big Ten Network cable subscriber frees.
On Pitt bloggers, Chaz and the PittBlather would have been a good choice considerign he has done stuff with the Syracuse blog and even the MGO blog.
by pittengineer75 on Feb 19, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
But thinking about expansion as a fan is exactly to wrong way to go about it. It’s not the fans or coaches or even athletic directors that vote on this; it’s the university Presidents and Chancellors. There’s just too much to gain as an institution by joining the Big Ten/CIC.
But I agree it wouldn’t have been too hard to find a Pitt blogger to actually speak for us. I’m hoping we can convince Chaz to make the switch to SBNation so we can actually represent ourselves around here.
I agree and have said before that money would be a factor for those who ultimately would need to make the decision if an invite was extended. As a fan though, it would be a hard sell to convince me I would enjoy athletics (men’s basketball and football) better in the Big Ten.
Even factoring in what Pitt could do with the increased revenue, I still would not be sold.
by pittengineer75 on Feb 19, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty simple, really.
I’m friends with those guys, they were doing a podcast, and said (full quote from the one-line email), “BTW, if you need someone to provide opinions on some of the more eastern candidates (Pitt, Rutgers, Syracuse), I’m happy to pitch in.”
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Feb 19, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
oh, it's no problem
I think you did a fine job, though it’s weird putting a voice to an avatar.
I’d just like to see a more deliberate Pitt presence on the SBNation. It’s not a perfect service, but it does facilitate a much better community than using Blogger or Wordpress.
What's weird about it?
He sounded exactly like I’d expect Soda Popinski to sound, except with less slurred speech.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Feb 20, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
He didn't fit in any Yuengling references or "Youz"
What a joke.
"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno
by ReadingRambler on Feb 20, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Using PSU joining the MAC isn't the best example
how about the more appropriate, “would Penn State join the Big 10 if they could promise more money than if Penn State remained playing all their Eastern rivals (through an eastern conference, or remaining independent, etc)?” I think we know the answer to that.
And I didn’t mean it would be hard to find a Pitt blogger, just that the guys at BHGP probably don’t know any Pitt bloggers, meanwhile the other guys are all members of SBN blogs (and I think there’s already been cross-board chatter between them before).
What they really should have done was get jesse. since he is in love with Pitt.
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 19, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
That's some pretty awful reasoning and speculation by Gorman.
What, Jamie Dixon is going to quit if the school joins the Big Ten? And walk away from this? Fat chance.
As someone else said, Pitt’s in no danger of losing the Backyard Brawl as one of their four OOC games. That’s also a stupid point.
And this is just abominably dumb:
While the Big Ten boasts its own television network, better bowl tie-ins and the recruiting draw of 100,000-seat stadiums, there’s no guarantee that playing in the conference would be a boost for Pitt. The competition would be better and make it harder to clinch bowl berths, especially the BCS bowls, and Pitt could go from Big East frontrunner to Big Ten also-ran.
I don’t know how good Gorman thinks the middle of the Big Ten is, but if Pitt can’t beat out teams like Minnesota and Northwestern for bowl bids, that program’s nothing but a 10-win sham. Also, regardless of whether a team goes a bowl game, all BT teams split the bowl money equally. So yeah, profit. Of course it would be an improvement for Pitt, unless they want to play on Thursday nights for the rest of eternity.
And as someone else said, this isn’t about wins and losses on the field. That’s the last thing that matters here. Pitt would benefit in getting research dollars, BTN money, and would still be able to maintain 95% of what they already have.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Feb 19, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Question for long time State fans
Penn State had a powerful Eastern identify for the majority of its athletic life. For those fans who remember all the Eastern rivalry games and the Eastern 8 & Atlantic 10 tournaments held in eastern venues, how difficult was it to adapt to the Big 10, essentially adopting a midwestern frame of mind with Chicago replacing Philadelphia & New York City as the media center of the league? Sure, the Philly papers carry the Lions as though they are a local team to satisfy the many alums in the region.
Amid all this talk of eastern identity, people seem to forget that Penn State - culturally - has more in common with the Big Ten than any other conference.
Even the region Penn State inhabits is more midwest than anything.
"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno
by ReadingRambler on Feb 22, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Pitt & Penn State
I know many Penn State bloggers would like to banish Pitt to the netherlands. It’s interesting that some writers bring up Pitt even when whatever event being discussed as nothing to do with Penn State. There may also be some concern & confusion over the sentiments of Pitt fans toward Penn State & the Big Ten. The absence of the football rivalry game bothers sports reporters more than most fans at this point. As a long-time fan I am surprised to read comments from the Panther fan base that the WVU game has replaced the old season-closing games with State and is more satisfying because the conference title is frequently on the line. When CNNSI did a survey of which teams are considered the biggest rivals per conference, Pitt was the hands on favorite as the biggest rival of almost all the Big East teams. The same survey had Penn State in the low middle of Big Ten schools. The survey doesn’t mean much but it does show how Pitt & the Big East have settled in together since 1982. Whereas the absence of a strong men’s basketball program and the cronyism which imbues the Big Ten appears to keep State on the outs to a degree, Pitt is looked at as the bedrock of the league. Many of us Pitt fans have great respect for Penn State & many of us had a choice of both schools when we were applying to college. As an urban institution, Pitt does remarkably well with football attendance (on the upswing) and ranks in the upper third in the NCAA home attendance rankings for the FBS schools. The affliation with New York City for the basketball tournament as wels as the new bowl game makes thinking of leaving the Big East bittersweet for many Pitt fans. If the Big Ten comes calling for Pitt, and I think that is still a very remote possibility at this time, wouldn’t it be like two partners who had a bitter separation but now have mutual respect moving back in together?
Penn State on the outs? Looking back to eastern rivals?
No, no, no. Penn State loves the Big Ten. It’s full of schools who care about football and minor sports, and all of those schools are major research institution. What does Penn State have to look back to? Pitt? For what? Just so we can say we totally kicked their ass? Yeah, great.
"...there'll be some woman, maybe 45 or 50, she'll come up and give me a hug, and I'll give my wife a wink: See? I'm not that old." - Joe Paterno
by ReadingRambler on Feb 22, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
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