DeChellis Survives, Will Coach 2010-11 Season
David Jones gets an answer from Tim Curley:
"Yes, Ed will continue to be our head coach," Curley wrote. "I like the way he runs our program, his assistant coaches and players in the program.
"I believe we are better than our record shows. Ed and I share the same vision for the program. I have complete confidence in Ed and his staff. No one will work harder or bring greater passion to making the necessary progress."
5 months ago
Run Up The Score
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I think most rational people saw this coming.
Not that anyone should be happy about it, mind you.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 12, 2010 3:07 PM EST reply actions
I like Ed DeChellis
is that so wrong?
He’s a good guy who works hard and tries to run the program the right way.
I know there’s an opinion that the program will only get better if we get a better coach, but I actually don’t think that’s true. The coach is not the root problem of penn state basketball woes; the root problems are endemic to the university: hoops will always play second fiddle to football; the jbc is soulless; half of central PA prefers wrestling to hoops; etc.
I’m not, incidentally, condoning running the program on the cheap.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
The second fiddle thing. Maybe, but if OSU and Texas can pull it off, I don’t see why PSU can’t also get away with it. With so many NBA fans from Philly, NY and NJ, you’d think there would be some support for basketball if people thought it worth watching.
I know about your diabolical plan.
I should spend a lot of timing thinking about this
and make it a fanpost, but I’ll make some points.
The TX/OSU argument is compelling, though I’m more inclined to think that OSU is the better comparision. But there is the differnce that both Austin and Columbus are the state capitals in addition to hosting the flagship state university, so it makes the town more urban and the population bigger, etc.
There are a lot of east coast hoops fans that would watch PSU if we were good. But they’re not going to wait around until we are: they’ll just watch the big east, which plays a much more entertaining (and east coast) style of hoops than the big ten anyway.
My main point, I suppose, is that if the question is: how do you build Penn State basketball into a solid program? “Hire a new coach” might be a necessary, but it certainly isn’t a sufficient answer.
We’re stuck in this vicious cycle: PSU hoops won’t be good until we get good talent. We won’t get good talent until the university community properly supports the hoops program. The university community won’t support the hoops team until the hoops team is good.
I’m not prepared to say how we get out of it, but I think that two words are definitely part of the solution: Rec Hall.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
We were talking about the ‘urban’ thing last night during the game. I think it makes sense but at the same time I’m not sure I buy it.
I know about your diabolical plan.
I agree...
Purdue and Indiana aren’t exactly located in a bustling metropolis. They have or once had good programs.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
Ah, beer, my one weakness. My Achille's heel, if you will. - HJS
by Esteban d' Amur on Mar 12, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
They're also in Indiana
Where Big10 bball reigns supreme. In PA kids want to play in the BE/ACC.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
Which...
I think is the bigger issue than coach or location.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
Ah, beer, my one weakness. My Achille's heel, if you will. - HJS
by Esteban d' Amur on Mar 12, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Dude Rec Hall ain't part of the solution
My parents called it the “Wreck” for a reason. Maybe if there was some tradition like the Palestra it would be cool, but it doesn’t. PSU needs to promote it’s newish building, with new offices and facilities for basketball players.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
I agree with that.
They’ve improved the BJC quite a bit in that regard, but it’s still a sterile, bland place to see any sporting event. It’s not even good for concerts.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 12, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah it probably isn't that great
It also doesn’t help that no one is ever there. I’d imagine winning would certainly help to change the environment. Winning cures just about everything.
Also, THON rules in the BJC when it’s packed.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
have you ever sat in the cheap seats at bjc?
its awful. You couldn’t pay me to sit there for any college hoops game. RUTS uses good adjectives: sterile, bland.
Rec Hall is just the opposite. It ain’t bland and it ain’t sterile. The fact that it’s sort of crappy makes it better. As someone who grew up playing basketball, the more unique and clastrophobic an arena is, the tougher it is for opposing teams to play there. And the more fun it is for the home team and the home fans.
I’m not suggesting that the team move to Rec Hall, but they should play a couple games there a year to spark interest.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Exactly.
Three games per year at Rec Hall wouldn’t kill anybody.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 12, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
College Basketball...
is better in a place like Rec Hall, the Palestra, or Cameron Indoor. You get the crowd on top of the game. Gives a real hc advantage.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
Ah, beer, my one weakness. My Achille's heel, if you will. - HJS
by Esteban d' Amur on Mar 12, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
and even if the team still sucks
at least you let everyone have a hell of a time for three games.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Ohio State does that
They play one game a year at their old arena as a tradition. We should definitely do that at least once a year.
by mundyscorner99 on Mar 12, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
Only if
Yeah bring back the 80’s. We should play one game a year at rec hall but it has to be against juniata, lock haven, or marathon oil.
by Slawsc on Mar 13, 2010 10:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Temple.
Gotta be Temple.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 13, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
I don't mind the view from up there.
It might be better than the views from behind the hoops on the lower levels, especially the light blue seats toward the back.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 12, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
behind the hoops also suck
i saw jordan in a wizards jersey play against the sixers in a preseason game from behind the hoops. maybe the most anticlimactic sporting event i’ve ever been to in person. crappy seats; mj didn’t do anything special, though i swear he shot a free throw with his eyes closed.
i didn’t mention that, though, b/c seats behind the basket suck pretty much everywhere.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Yeah
Yeah, but especially with the slow incline at the BJC. Some just shoot up, and you’re above the basket 7-8 robs back. At the BJC, you can go all the way back to the end of the light blue seats and still be underneatht the rim.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 12, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
you're right about this
its been a long time (2002) since i’ve been in the bjc. come to think of it, i think that preseason game was the last time. in any event, i don’t remember a lot of the specifics of the place, just that, especially in college, i was a hoops junkie, and i always hated going to the bjc to watch games. maybe i have an extreme opinion about this, but i just always hated that building. so many mediocre games, mediocre teams, mediocre crowds.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Exactly
The team sucks, there for the atmosphere sucks. Suck spreads just like victory.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
Yeah I have, and they aren't great
But man I’ve been in Rec Hall and it’s no picnic either. I get that it might be fun to watch some games in there, but I just don’t think it would be that fun. I just don’t see how a venue change would really ignite people during a game. It’s all about winning and nothing else matters.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
Winning = cure
Seriously…. if we win people will fill the BJC. There’s no lying that the BJC is a big place. There’s also no denying that we suck at basketball. If we win, and thus people fill the seats, trust me, the BJC will rock.
If Go Go Gadget can rock the BJC, a ranked team(PSU) vs ranked team (visitor, say OSU), conference game would make the place explode.
Let's Go State
Depends on your definition of "fill".
Because I don’t buy the idea of 16k in that place on a weekday night unless Penn State is in national contention.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 12, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
National contention for what?
Like NC contention? BT contention?
I didn’t go, but one or more of last year’s games “sold out” I haven no idea what it looked like, but I distinctly remember the Collegian making a point that the curtains that would normally be in front of the upper level seats were finally being raised.
Looked it up. Big games from last year in the BJC:
MSU: 10270
Iowa: 12210
Wiscy: 14686
Minny: 12148
Indy: 15035
Illinois: 13091
This year:
VTech: 11237
Minny: 10291
MSU: 14017
Those were the only games that were over 10K in the BJC this year.
Indy and Wisconsin were both on weekends.
And let’s just say I meant a team that is clearly an NCAA team and probably a Big Ten title contending team. That’s the only way I think they fill that place for every game.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 13, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Tickets sold vs. actual warm bodies in seats.
Big difference.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 14, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
If this were football, I would agree
but honestly, how many tickets sold by the BJC are NOT used for a basketball game? Most of the die-hard students who actually paid for student season tickets show up for every game. And I’m sure there are alumni who buy student tickets and never use them, just to support the program (in fact I know of one, a friend of my dad’s). I just find it hard to believe that people pre-buy BB tickets and then don’t use them. I know there are exceptions, but I’d be willing to bet that the people who just go for an occasional game (like me) and just buy tickets the day of far outnumber the people with pre-sold tickets who don’t bother to show up.
I could be wrong, I just think it’s the complete opposite of football where the majority of the tickets are sold the day of the game, and not through season ticket holders.
The place is too big and the seats are too far away.
Winning may make it louder but the atmosphere probably still wouldn’t be great. I’d prefer a smaller arena like Rec Hall. Empty crowds at BJC wouldn’t be empty crowds at the Rec Hall.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 12, 2010 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah maybe they should have built an arena between the sizes of Rec Hall and BJC
Something like 10 to 12 thousand max. It would be great someday to actually have a home court advantage and I think a smaller arena would have done that. I can’t imagine PSU ever filling out the BJC every night.
by mundyscorner99 on Mar 12, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Gallagher-Iba/St. John Arean is the sort of design I like.
In the case of Gallagher-Iba: 13,000 but the seats stay very close to the court and it’s really loud. I would love an arena that’s built similarly but with around 9 or 10K to account for the fact that we might be unable to fill it consistently.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 14, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. Yep.
To me, the problem is that a PSU basketball coach can’t hang his hat on one single positive when talking to a recruit. The town is isolated, too far from both the mid-atlantic corridor and the bigger midwestern cities. There’s no fan support, no tradition of winning. The football program is all anyone really cares about. Coaches with reputations for scandalous behavior need not apply.
So what kind of coach would really be attracted to this situation? I’ve been pounding the same point for weeks that STU Boy mentioned below — a mid-major darling who is ready to make his jump to high-major conferences isn’t going to risk his career on turning around Penn State. Why the hell would he?
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 12, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know if I agree with the too far part
SC is a 4 hr or less drive from NYC, Philly, DC, Bmore, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland. Plenty close to all sorts of talent
by speedomike on Mar 12, 2010 10:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't know much about Cleveland as a HS talent pool. But I do know that Matta gets most of the top talent in that state.
Pittsburgh isn’t great for talent and anyone there is going to Pitt. Maryland and Georgetown control DC and Baltimore. We’ve already discussed Philly and NYC.
The trouble isn’t distance, it’s that we’re sitting on top of the North Slope oil field and everyone else is already drilling.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 12, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
And actually, it's more like we're next to the North Slope oil field.
Make no mistake, it may not seem like a lot, but there’s a big difference between central PA and the Big East’s talent stockyards.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 12, 2010 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
I think this is the more important point
Look who we’re recruiting against. I see schools like Washington State, Kansas State, and Texas A&M build successful programs and wonder why we can’t, but the those schools aren’t recruiting against the type of programs that we are.
even though it is bland
i think the bjc has the potential to be a great place to watch a college basketball game. i was at the illinois game last year and it was one of the best experiences during my time at penn state.
however, as you said spaka, we’re not going get consistently get great atmospheres until we have a consistently goo team, etc. etc.
Wait....
I live in the Philly area. Where are these NBA fans you speak of?
Never mistake effort for achievement.
Ah, beer, my one weakness. My Achille's heel, if you will. - HJS
by Esteban d' Amur on Mar 12, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Hibernation
Mother of god the Sixers suck
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
For real.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 12, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
The city supports a team
same can’t be said for Columbus or Arlington.
I know about your diabolical plan.
I remember better times, back when I paid attention
Looks like 76ers were a top-10 draw in ’05:
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance/_/year/2005
but like you guys are saying trees they are trees in the woods now.
I know about your diabolical plan.
Columbus doesn't even support OSU basketball.
They couldn’t sell out their last home game. This is why I hate the BJC: people can say “win and the atmosphere will be great”, but I’m not sure I believe it. Ohio State’s arena is as bland and sterile as ours, and their atmosphere is almost as bad as ours.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 12, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
Sad thing is...
I got free tickets from my employer to Monday’s game against the Knicks and I almost turned them down. God the NBA is boring.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
Ah, beer, my one weakness. My Achille's heel, if you will. - HJS
by Esteban d' Amur on Mar 12, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
The coach isn't the root problem
But the right coach can be the root solution.
I’ve been saying it all along. If Penn State is every going to fire DeChellis for another mid-major coach, it’ll purely be for the PR of getting rid of an unsuccessful coach, and replacing him with a guy that they can say “He won the NEC 5 times” to get butts in seats. Among guys of his pedigree, who are the only guys Penn State is gonna hire, Ed is the best fit for this program.
If they want to go after Jamie Dixon or someone like him that’ll make a big time impact, bring in the blue-chip Northeast talent, and get people legitimately excited for the future, but the idea of hiring Mike Rice or someone like that and seeing a turnaround is dreaming, so I’m opposed to anything like that.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 12, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Fugi
That logic makes no sense. Why would a big time coach leave his job to come to Penn State. Honestly that’s just delusional thinking.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
But that’s not going to happen. I realize that. But if people wanted it to, it could.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 12, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
I certainly agree with $$$$$$$$$$$$
but I’ll disagree with the details: hiring a successful mid-major coach isn’t going to register on anyones radar.
I know about your diabolical plan.
Not at all.
Won’t put a single new ass in the seats, I don’t care how many MAAC titles he won.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 12, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
The good old
Metro Atlantic.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
Ah, beer, my one weakness. My Achille's heel, if you will. - HJS
by Esteban d' Amur on Mar 12, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
No, completely agree
It’d have to be a Big 6 coach or the very top mid major guys like Mark Few.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 12, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Still suicide
So he fails. Why not wait a year for the big pay day?
There isn't a single college basketball coach alive who thinks he's going to fail
Unless you know you’re in line for the Duke job, you don’t turn down 3 million dollars.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 12, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
No, I don't think that's wrong.
He’s a likable guy, runs a clean program with likable players. Trouble is, the team kind of sucks.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 12, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
He likes the way
DeChellis runs program. Of course he does, he runs it on the cheap. He likes the assistant coaches and players because they don’t get paid much/don’t garner many scholarships.
ED can work as hard and be as passionate as he wants, but I don’t see any progress being made anytime soon.
When in the history of Penn State basketball have you really ever seen "progress"?
ED is not the problem, except that he’s not a solution, either. Unfortunately Penn State seems to be unwilling to do what it really takes to solve the problem (if it is even solvable to begin with)
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 12, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Not surprised.
And I’m not thrilled about it either. Unless we got a couple of quality JUCO big men on the way, I’m anticipating mild improvement at best: 6 or 7 wins in the conference and coming up well short of an NCAA berth.
by Happy Hour Valley on Mar 12, 2010 3:25 PM EST reply actions
I like the way he runs the program
Said another way, “I love the fact that we have a very mediocre program.”
If that doesn’t instill great hope in you for the future of this program, I don’t know what will.
Big deal
What is Curley supposed to say if they’re keeping him? It’s do or die next year.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
The truth
This is not necessarily and institutional problem. It’s all well and good to say that a new coach will get commits to come to PSU and we will be instantly good, or if we put more money into the program we can attract talent. Sadly, there’s two gigantic problems.
#1: Why would a high profile mid-major coach risk his entire career by coming to Penn State instead of waiting for a better opportunity. Don’t forget that most of these coaches only get one chance in the big leagues, so they better make it count.
#2: This reason kind of goes why we will never land a big-time coach. Penn State simply can’t recruit Philadelphia. I have said this many times, but outside of Philly, there sadly isn’t much talent in the state. Every now and then a good player comes from other areas, but if they’re that good they will go to a national power.
PSU is competing with known commodities in Syracuse, Nova, Pitt, the Big 5, etc. If players are blue-chip, then they compete with Kansas (the Morris twins), UNC (Ellington), Syrace (Jardine, Jackson, Warrick, endless list), and the Duke’s (Henderson) of the world.
So the elite talent goes national, the secondary talent, which is also good, gets plucked up by the rest, so what does that leave Penn State?
I’ll tell you guys what, if you can solve this problem or know of a coach who would take this job and has the potential to solve it, I’m all ears.
I agree
with everything you say, though I would term both of your problems as “institutional,” because they’re endemic to the school. In other words, there’s not really anything we can do to change those factors. Although I suppose money could help answer #1.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Is simply money worth the risk
Of never coaching in a Major conference again? Why wouldn’t he wait a year for his eventual pay-day when someone else gets fired?
Any coach
Who is coming here has to have a psu degree to be considered bc that is all psu will hire. The program has been “in-house” and “local” for 30 years and as long as state colleges own and psu grad tim Curley is in charge, he isn’t reaching outside the nittany nation. Odds are 5-1 christian appleman or 3-2 Nate althouse are the next hire.
by Slawsc on Mar 13, 2010 10:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Less to do with being a Penn State grad and more to do with price.
It just so happens that alumni are more likely to take a lower salary than an outsider.
"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."
No big deal
Nobody goes to the games anyway.
LET THE HEALING BEGIN
Seriously, can we make this the last sad-bastard MBB thread until after the fall? Let’s just all exhale and say: this year we sucked at basketball. Historically, we’ve always sucked. Sometimes we don’t suck, but that’s only sometimes.
So let the healing begin, let’s just get it all out of our systems, and move on with why we’re all really here: football. B&W game. It’s coming.
Out of respect for our horrific season, I will not be filling out a single bracket this year.
"We hugged as grown men do. It was a great moment. Then, it was business as usual." -- LJ Sr.
No, we'll have two more next week. But after that, it's football time.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 12, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
I think that is expected
Ed kept the team playing hard for the whole season, which is more than a lot of teams can say. We do need to see some progress next year though in my opinion.
Anyone watching the Wiscy Illinois game?
It reminds me of the game we played at Wisconsin. They haven’t done anything all game and are making a last minute comeback.
hmm...
“I believe we are better than our record shows.” Wouldn’t this suggest the Coach is not getting it done?
I'm with STU Boy. All ears to a solution.
I’m pretty sure Penn State has great minor sports programs, a great football program, and basketball programs that make money. Penn State athletics are as good as ever. So let’s fire him.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 12, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
I suggested my solution weeks ago... you were too busy commenting 11,000 times to read and comprehend.
Joe Dooley, the lead assistant coach at Kansas, would be on the top of my wish list. This guy is as tied into the Philly and New Jersey parochial leagues as anyone in the country. He’s tied into the District of Columbia metro area as well. That gives PSU instant credibility with some pretty powerful prep high school programs. He’s working/learning under Bill Self, who dominated the Big Ten as head man at Illinois, so he definitely would have some mentorship when it comes to the style of play in the league.
Think he’s a pipe dream? There were rumors this week about him returning to coach at East Carolina again. I’m pretty sure that Penn State might be slightly more attractive than ECU.
And what does women’s field hockey have to do with the men’s basketball program? Curley is a moron for pretty much admitting that the current coaching staff is not extracting the full potential from the players at the same time as expressing his satisfaction with the program. By saying that he thinks they’re better than their record shows, that’s a damnation of the coaches for not having the team’s record meet or exceed the talent level. You don’t lose as many games as PSU did simply due to bad luck. Look back at the records of ED’s teams at PSU. Which season was more of an outlier? 2008-09 or 2009-10? I think it’s pretty obvious.
As a matter of fact, your little cheap shot (which doesn't add anything to your argument FWIW, so I'm not sure why you added it) I did see your suggestion.
However rumors aside, what motivation does he have to coach at Penn State? Again, what motivation does any coach have to coach at Penn State. Frankly, I do think it’s a pipe dream because Penn State isn’t suddenly going to start caring about basketball.
And what does women’s field hockey have to do with the men’s basketball program? Curley is a moron for pretty much admitting that the current coaching staff is not extracting the full potential from the players at the same time as expressing his satisfaction with the program. By saying that he thinks they’re better than their record shows, that’s a damnation of the coaches for not having the team’s record meet or exceed the talent level. You don’t lose as many games as PSU did simply due to bad luck. Look back at the records of ED’s teams at PSU. Which season was more of an outlier? 2008-09 or 2009-10? I think it’s pretty obvious.
Curley isn’t a moron. Do you actually believe he believes what he tells the media?
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 13, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
And to repeat:
Why would Curley fire DeChellis when no one’s going to give him the money? Jokes aside, Curley probably really doesn’t have a massive offshore account in the Cayman Islands.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 13, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
If you'd stop acting like a condescending A-hole toward anyone with a differing viewpoint, then you wouldn't get so many snarky responses.
Again, what motivation does any coach have to coach at Penn State.
Good point. We should just shut down the entire men’s basketball program because no one should ever want to coach here. That’s a completely defeatist attitude. Your WWII idols would be ashamed.
I’d imagine that motivation is going to vary from individual to individual. Maybe Dooley would want to return to the east coast. The fact that he’s apparently back in the running for the East Carolina job seems to indicate that might be the case. Maybe Dooley is looking for a significant raise over an assistant’s salary for some added financial security for his wife and young son. Even $750K is more than he’s likely making at Kansas right now. A guy like Dooley probably isn’t going to command a $2.5 million per year salary right off the bat. If he delivers the results on the court, the fans and added revenues will follow to give the man a raise after a few season. Maybe Dooley would want to prove that he can be successful with his own staff at a BCS conference school. Who knows at this point what exactly would be the driving motivation?
There is no way that PSU can find out who might be interested or motivated to take the job until they actually start looking. Sometimes you have to kick the tires a little to find out what else is out there. Sure, a fresh start with a new coach isn’t necessarily a magic bullet, but, honestly, how much worse can we do than the ridiculously poor records that DeChellis squads have posted year after year?
The only one being condescending is you. You're the one who decided take cheap shots with no relevance to any argument.
Am I an “a-hole” for disagreeing with you?
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 13, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
No, you're an a-hole for the way that you take the volume approach to attempt to bully people on this site.
I don’t care that you and I disagree. I think I’ve agreed with maybe 3% of your thousands of posts, so convincing you is the least of my worries.
He's right, Rambler
I’ve been terrified of your volume bullying, and your post count is so big, I’m too intimidated to even post comments anymore.
Wait, I just wrote this. Oh god, what have I done! He’s going to over-volume me!!!! NOOOOOO!!!
I don't post a lot because to "bully people"
I’d bet the majority of my comments come from open threads. Open threads are often examples of this site’s greatness. I spend tons of time in open threads and other areas of BSD because I enjoy the humor, smarts, and general excellence of this blog’s mods and posters who have all created a great, great atmosphere. I comment a lot because of the time I spend here and because I’ve always had an opinion on just about anything. Has nothing to do with wanting people to acknowledge my wisdom and power (though I may tell Junny that…).
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 13, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
Also, about 1/4 of my comments are corrections of grammar like the subject line up there.
Please give us an edit feature, SBN. Pretty please?
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 13, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Why don't you just update your internal grammar/spellcheck software?
"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."
I like to think of myself as a droid that gets commands from the mothership.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 14, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
You know what else is a completely defeatist attitude?
Completely giving up on a a coach for a program that has never had a history of success at the university just because of a very bad season only a year removed from proving in the NIT we probably should have been dancing last year.
PSU is not a basketball school, you and everyone else here knows it. So now we’re talking about bringing in an assistant coach from another university just because he has ties to PA, MD, etc.? You’re forgetting the fundamental rule of PSU basketball: NO ONE IS GOING TO PASS UP A BIG NAME SCHOOL TO PLAY FOR US (Buie excepted, but that was a family issue). You honestly think just because we pull in an assistant coach from an OMG BASKETBALL POWERHOUSE school that we’re suddenly going to be getting top recruits dying to play in blue and white? And of course, my argument is completely ignoring Ramblers point: why the hell would this guy want to pass up coaching at a school with a great BB tradition to go to the middle of nowhere to coach basketball?
Completely giving up on a a coach for a program that has never had a history of success at the university just because of a very bad season only a year removed from proving in the NIT we probably should have been dancing last year.
Ummmm… one successful season out of seven is the exception not the rule. I’ve given DeChellis seven years, and he has not delivered.
why the hell would this guy want to pass up coaching at a school with a great BB tradition to go to the middle of nowhere to coach basketball?
East Carolina, a tiny mid-major, is a school with a great BB tradition? Well, ok. All I’m saying is that you need to start somewhere, and starting with a coach that already has relationships with the top high school programs within a 400 mile radius of PSU seems like a decent way to do just that. We’re most likely not going to get the star player from those programs, but if the high school coach would push the next-level kids from St. Anthony’s, St. Patrick’s, etc. to PSU because they know and trust Joe Dooley that would really help get our program off the ground. Penn State needs momentum; this would be a way to get it.
Penn State isn’t going to be Kansas or Duke or Kentucky. I agree that that is an unreasonable expectation. I don’t see any reason why we can’t be successful at a level of a school like Texas A&M, which is usually a borderline top 25 team and fills their arena.
You said he was an assistant at Kansas. I'm talking about UK, not ECU.
And any HS coach who is trying to get his players the best shot at the league is NOT going to steer his players towards PSU, not even if our coach was Jesus. We would get kids that all the big name schools passed on (no offense to our players or anything) just like we always have. I don’t buy that argument, because like you said, we’re obviously not going to get the best kids from the schools, but you really think Pitt, Villanova, Syracuse, Temple, Maryland are just going to pass on those second tier kids if there’s potential in them? And you think we’d honestly have a shot with them if they’re getting looks from big BB schools?
Again, dawson, it comes down to motivation.
I’ve said 50 times that we’re not going to land the John Walls of the world, but Penn State could be competitive in the league (middle of the pack) with the second tier players from the power prep programs. How do you land them? You have to recruit them, man. You have to sell them on being the big fish at Penn State when they would merely be a role player or 4th guy off the bench at Villanova. Maybe that brings a few of these guys to PSU and gets the ball rolling.
Oh, and where did I mention anything about Kentucky (UK) other than saying that PSU will never be at that level?
Bill Self isn’t leaving Kansas anytime soon (at least I hope not!), so Joe Dooley isn’t going to be offered a head coaching gig at somewhere like Kansas or even Kentucky for that matter. If Dooley wants to give head coaching another try (he was pretty young during his first go-around), he’s going to have to start at a mid-major. PSU could offer the chance to restart that head coaching resume at a major, which might be enough to attract him or some other top assistant coach.
I think Dawson just forgot or didn't know that Kansas calls themselves KU.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 14, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
the problem with something like this
is that Dooley would jump ship at the first sign of success. Recruits would probably know this, and if they didn’t, I’m sure any other school looking to recruit them will tell them..
Of course at a school our level, having a lot of coaching churn is probably to be expected, but PSU seems to do things differently, and values loyalty (and cheapness) more than most.
And then there’s the “what if” of Dooley coming in and not doing any better than DeChellis? Do we then pay both of their severance checks while hiring the next great assistant coach out there?
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 15, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
bah, should have read further down
I see this debate has already been played out.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 15, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point. We should just shut down the entire men’s basketball program because no one should ever want to coach here. That’s a completely defeatist attitude. Your WWII idols would be ashamed.
I give you credit for at least offering your opinion on a solution, but the fact remains that DeChellis remains our best bet until Penn State’s administration is willing to put forward an actual effort to produce a quality program. There are no boosters who are going to put up money, the AD wants this thing on the cheap, that’s just the way it is. Hopefully just for now.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 13, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
We can agree on one point.
No boosters are going to magically appear to serve up a huge windfall of cash to lure away a big name coach to come to Penn State. That’s precisely why I don’t ever list any of those guys as legitimate options to replace DeChellis. You wouldn’t need $3 million a year to land someone like Joe Dooley, who has only ever been a head coach at mid-majors. I would think a starting salary less than a million would be enough incentive to “steal” him from the basketball powerhouse East Carolina. That’s not a whole lot more than ED makes and wouldn’t break the budget. It’s reasonable, but I absolutely expect Tim Curley to sit on his hands, let ED lead us straight into the toilet again next season, then move on to hire Dan Earl for $19.00/hr.
hey, I've already pledged my $10
now we just need to get another 300,000 people do do so.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 15, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I've heard this Dooley arguement from you before
And in theory it’s not a horrible idea, except what happens when he puts 2-3 post season appearances together in a row? Then what?
He’ll be in demand from other schools willing to give their head basketball coach more money. Maybe this $750 K number you’re throwing around gets him away from KU, but it certainly doesn’t keep him in a league where Bill Carmody makes eight figures.
If he, or any up-and-comer discover any kind of success at PSU, they’ll bolt. Hell, it happened at Pitt with Howland, and it’s only because Pitt was fairly well established by the time anyone would have wanted to hire Dixon that he’s still there.
I’m not using this as a strictly “keep Ed” arguement, I’m just pointing out that even if we did hit the jackpot with a hot assistant or mid-major coach, we’d have to pay him eventually, which is not as simple as saying “Hey NLC, look what we found!”
Penn State is playing it’s cards the right way on Ed. 2010 wasn’t going to be a good year any way, and anyone close to the program knew that. It just turned out a little worse than we expected. 2011 was, and still will be the measuring stick on just what kind of coach Ed will be. And I’m sure you’ll throw out a lot of the seasons at the beginning of his tenure and use hyperbolic language like “unacceptable” and “embarassing” to point to why he’s never going to be successful, but really, the first 5 years weren’t his trainwreck, they were Jerry Dunn’s.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 13, 2010 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
Wouldn't we all be thrilled if PSU reached the tournament 2-3 times in a row?
I know that I would be incredibly happy with that level of performance from Penn State. And at that point, attendance numbers would be higher, revenues would be higher, and Penn State’s athletic department might finally begin to see the wisdom in actually investing in the basketball program. You offer the coach a nice, big raise at that point because he will have earned it. If he uses PSU as a launching pad and moves on to a bigger name program, that’s still reasonable because the ground work will have been laid for the next coach and PSU would be a much more attractive location after 3 straight NCAA tourney trips because the players would obviously be pretty decent and the fanbase will be energized. Plus, at that point, PSU would be in a position to pay a little more to attract the next coach.
I feel like a broken record, but you have to start somewhere. We’ve seen what ED has to offer. Even if you throw out Ed’s first two years as he began recruiting his players, PSU is still 33 games under .500 in the conference and under .500 overall in the last five years. Basketball isn’t football, where it takes years to turn over a roster. In basketball, you need 8 players, which is two recruiting classes. I’m more than willing to toss out the 03-04 and 04-05 seasons, but the rest falls on Ed’s shoulders.
I feel like a broken record too
We’ve said it enough
Ed isn’t the root of the problem, but he’s not the solution. If I felt like admin cared, I’d probably be harder on Ed, but they don’t, so I feel like Ed is the right man at the right time for Penn State. Simple as that.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 14, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
You must be
Penn state proud to wear your mens fencing national championship t-shirt. Yes Curley should go. Who looks at a coach who has four last place finishes in seven years w no NCAA bids and no prized recruits in one of the best bb conferences in NCAA. Who looks at 7 years of now starting all over again. Is the program today really any better than when ed took over seven years ago. Everyone on this site says we should do this and that and go to Philly and go get some up and comer blah blah blah. It ain’t going to happen when the boss can’t even recognize the problem. But we as boosters,alumni,fans have the power to make a change in this situation. Get an AD in there who gives a damm about the powerbroker sports football and MENS basketball. It can and should happen in State College.
by Slawsc on Mar 13, 2010 10:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
First, Curley isn't the boss.
Second, Penn State has always thought of basketball solely as something that should make money. Stop acting like Curley created the culture up there.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 14, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
It's like the second-coming of Fugi
except not as eloquent…
"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."
Just
Someone who has followed the program closely for 25 years and is tired and frustrated w the lack of it’s development. Parkhill took it from a program that would lose at home to juniata to an nit and then an a10 title and the NCAA and then into the big ten and a superior facility and then the program has just been there for the last dozen years. Yeah some peeks but no consistency. Ed is a nice guy but he isn’t taking this program to ncaas every other year. So i assume Curley as ad is the boss. I guess not according to you. Ok get rid of spanier then. 1 or 2 every decade for NCAA appearances is sn embarrasment to this university. It deserves better. Why the heck did we join the big ten if not to go the rose bowl and upgrade basketball program neither which aren’t occurring as frequently as they should.
by Slawsc on Mar 14, 2010 1:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Um
Why the heck did we join the big ten if not to go the rose bowland upgrade basketball program neither which aren’t occurring as frequently as they should.
There ya go.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 14, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I enjoy your ranting
even though I haven’t posited a stance on this issue.
Anywho, this whole conversation isn’t new. Especially to Fugi, who is forever linked to Curley – so much hate in just one week!
"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."
lol, yes, let's fire Spanier
because the sole measure of a University President’s success is how well the basketball team does. Penn State is a complete and utter disgrace! I’m burning my degree as soon as I can find it.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 15, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Okay
From now on instead of people posting “Curley’s a cheap idiot,” I want people to explain how they would remedy the situation. If you can, then do all the bashing you want.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 12, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Can you think of a solution?
I can’t. Unless it’s “Cael Sanderson’s brother”.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 12, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
My solution
Stick with Ed one more year. If he fails, blow it up, start again. I know it sucks, but that’s all I got.
Start all over again, but give the bball people more money and give the new coach more resources.
Allow him to come in with a plan and be able to execute it. PSU is so rich that no shouldn’t really be on their mind as long as it’s not illegal.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Mar 12, 2010 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 12, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Everyone seems to think that Illinois is definitely in because they won today
And they may get in, but I don’t think it is a lock. Their RPI is plus 70, and they only have 19 wins, with 13 of them coming against teams with plus 125 RPI (I believe). I think that PSU’s resume last year looked better than Illinois does this year.
From what I've heard (I haven't payed quite as much atttention this year), the bubble isn't as deep as last year.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 12, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
"Next year is do-or-die"
“I need to see some progress or I am DONE!”
A March tradition in State College.
well to be fair
most people seemed to be saying “next year will be a step back, but 2011 is do-or-die” last March. Of course I don’t think anyone anticipated quite the step back that it was. The team didn’t even look that bad, especially towards the end of the season, just had a lot of close losses.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 15, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Tradition Shouldn't matter
Everyone should realize by now that the biggest problem with Penn State basketball is that there isn’t anything being invested into winning. We have the smallest or second smallest basketball budget in the conference. It’s not a priority. How many things in life work that aren’t made a priority, especially when they are complex and require hard work?
This has nothing to do with location or a lack of tradition, or all of the other tired excuses. It’s not 1960 anymore. It’s not even 1990 anymore. The whole world is connected digitally and major highways lead to State College.
Penn State doesn’t win because they chose not to try. If Penn State win’s it’s by accident.
How many coaches have coached Penn State basketball since the explosion of ESPN and the NCAA Tournament? 3? Bruce Parkhill and his two lead assistants are the only people that have touched this program in nearly 30 years.
Having said that, whatever happened in college basketball before ESPN and the explosion of television revenue in the sport of basketball and football doesn’t really matter. The game changed w/ ESPN and large TV contracts, way more money to be made by being good and depending on the school, more pressure to try.
The bottom line is that since joining the Big Ten and opening the BJC, Penn State has made no effort to bring in a coach from the outside. Now we have the Big Ten Network which should be a huge recruiting tool. How many basketball coaches can sell recruits on the idea that their school plays in a league that has its own channel? It’s not just about the games that are broadcast, it’s the daily coverage of what’s going on in the league, at each of the schools. No other league provides that kind of exposure. That’s not a huge sell for the parents and families?
We will never ever know what Penn State can do in college basketball until the school makes it a priority.
To say Penn State can’t win at college basketball because it never has is equally as ridiculous as a Army or Navy fan saying, we used to be a power in college football, why not now. The world is completely different.
The biggest thing that not winning before joining the Big Ten and opening the BJC has had is that it’s allowing the school to continue with its penny pinching ways. Because there’s no tradition and the school never generated any serious interest or expectations, there’s not enough real fans, there’s not enough outcry, there’s not enough pressure to change. Penn State now has the resources and advantages that it never enjoyed before, but there is no serious pressure on the athletic department.
At the end of the day, how many people complain about Penn State basketball? Apparently not enough to justify increasing the budget.
Through the years Penn State has effectively created the culture that doesn’t care. That doesn’t mean Penn State couldn’t win if it tried to.
I’m a Penn State alum that grew up with season tickets to Villanova. Villanova is my basketball school. I know lots of guys from the Pittsburgh area that attended Penn State that support Pitt basketball. I would imagine there is a segment of Penn State alumni who enjoy basketball that spend more money and give more attention to other programs than they do Penn State. It’s not like Penn State intentionally attracts people to its school that don’t like basketball. It’s just that while you’re on campus you never learn to care about it.
Until there is a change in philosophy, it’s a waste of time to cry about Ed. The school doesn’t care if there’s interest in college basketball and not enough people are complaining to change their opinion.
by Richard Aceto on Mar 13, 2010 4:03 PM EST reply actions 9 recs
This, this, this, this.
+1, sir.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 13, 2010 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
excellent argument
Never insult seven men when all you have is a six shooter --COL Sherman T Potter
by psu in the w-b on Mar 13, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
very well written post
I fully admit that I’m one of those Penn State alums that just doesn’t really care about basketball. Never cared about it before enrolling, never cared about it there, and never really started caring about it until last year (but that’s more a factor of enjoying the BSD community during the games, and also actually being able to watch many of them on the BTN). I didn’t even follow the team during their sweet 16 run (though of course I watched their tournament games on TV, but I didn’t attend a single regular season game).
Heck, I’m even at a big b-ball school now, and I barely follow them, even though all my friends here are pretty obsessed with it. I kinda wonder if I went to MSU as an undergrad if I would have become a big basketball fan (though again, the past couple years, with the BTN, and BSD, I’ve gotten MUCH more into it)
But as far as PSU goes, and NLC and other athletic department contributions, etc., if I had to choose if my money went to football, or if it went to basketball, I’d probably choose football every time. I feel somewhat guilty at this thought, but I’m just trying to be honest about it. Let’s not also forget that we aren’t going to have JoePa forever, and we’ll likely need to raise money for a coach. I can’t imagine a world where the basketball coach at PSU makes more than the football coach.
I have a suspicion that I’m closer to the “norm” for Penn State alum (football first mentality). Of course I would love for the basketball team to be nationally relevant and competitive, but only slightly more than I care for the wrestling/volleyball/field hockey/soccer/fencing teams to be good.
Sorta like
football >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>basketball>>>other sports
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 15, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
What about a guy like Rick Majerus?
Atleast a name people know…I am actually not sure if he is still alive to be honest.
Or the old UNC or Mizzu coach…both played major D1 ball…
Hell – I’d take Parkill
He's kind of a douche
Would I hang out with the man? Yes. But he’s not the kind of guy adminstration would hire.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 13, 2010 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
Parkhill was the best of the three
at least his teams had an identity. They played hard, boxed out, got the ball inside, etc. Parkhill had a successful run in the A10 and he built the the team that earned a 5 seed in the NCAA’s. Parkhill also coached in an era where the best players in college basketball still stayed till they were juniors and even seniors.
College basketball is so watered down compared to what it once was that it’s much easier to win at a school like Penn State now. Parkhill and even Dunn coached in a better Big Ten which makes Ed’s tenure at Penn State that much worse.
Ed has been lucky enough to coach in a Big Ten where historically strong programs like Indiana and Michigan have been incredibly weak. Even Iowa used to be decent. How long are they going to be down?
Think about all the quality coaches that are in the league or have just entered the league. How in the world is Ed, with his ridiculously awful resume ever going to build a program that can compete?
Ed returned the best player in school history playing the most important position on the floor and two redshirt juniors who have been starting in the front court since they were juniors and all we could manage was dead last place in a diluted league and two unthinkably bad losses to Tulane and UNC Wilmington. Losing to a bad Indiana team that couldn’t win on the road was pretty weak as well.
UNC Wilimington fired their head coach a month after beating Penn State. I guess a lopsided double digit win over Ed didn’t impress their athletic director.
Fortunately for UNC Wilmington, their athletic director isn’t Tim Curley.
by Richard Aceto on Mar 13, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Yes, without question.
Captain of our FINAL FOUR TEAM (ACTUALLY HAPPENED). Bonus points for playing receiver for Rip Engle.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 14, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Penn State = 1 final four
Pitt = 1 final four
by AdamShell on Mar 14, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ours was more recent too.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 14, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I meant
Jackson and Jones have been starting since they were freshman after redshirting. Obviously trying to refute the fallacy that Penn State was young this year. I’m not sure on what planet Penn State can be considered young when 4 of their top 5 scorers will be out of eligibility this time next year.
I guess at Penn State, anything less than a 5th year senior is young. And if you’ve started less than 100 games, you’re inexperienced.
by Richard Aceto on Mar 13, 2010 9:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Attacking Jackson?
He’s the one guy we have that’s a threat from outside and in the post. I’m not making him out to be some stud or anything, but I thought he had a pretty good year, and I definitely don’t think he underacheived.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 13, 2010 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
I believe, at least it's how I define the word 'young' for sports
means that no one is leaving this year. After next year, yes we will have a LOT of shoes to fill, but right now we have a lot of returning players with experience and no one leaving (at least in terms of starters, I don’t know if we lose anyone to graduation this year that isn’t just a rumor)
The biggest reason why I
wanted a change is because of the fact that there’s going to be a huge drop after next year. I personally don’t believe Ed can absorb any more last place finishes. At what point does his message to the Battle’s of the world fall on deaf ears?
This team didn’t need to make the NCAA’s this year, but last place and embarrassing losses to incredibly weak programs was the nail in the coffin for me.
Ed has to replace a lot and he’s going to be recruiting as a perceived lame duck in recruiting circles. The better players, most players will know where they are going before the season starts, so next season is going to have relatively no impact on next years high school seniors. Those players last impressions of Penn State will be this season. How good is that class going to be. They have two kids already, but neither is an immediate answer to the front court issues. Are those guys going to be ready right away? Do you have faith in Ed to develop players quickly? I don’t.
The Big Ten will be better next year than it was this year, what happens if next season doesn’t work? Can Curley defend another year? Will players like Buie want to stick around? Will scholarships be used next year on lesser recruits because Ed is desperate and the new coach (assuming Ed can’t survive another bad year) has to wait for these guys to transfer or graduate?
We all saw how the Dunn era ended.
Keeping Ed around another year with a veteran team was not worth the risk to me. But we all know Penn State wasn’t going to eat 3 or 4 years of Ed’s contract.
This could get Jerry Dunn bad again.
by Richard Aceto on Mar 13, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah
This is gonna get ugly next year. Anyone out there a stats junkie? What has Been the biggest jump in recent years for last place big ten teams? Assuming we have another cupcake early schedule and have to go 11-7 in big ten play is this team really a plus 7 game win in conference play next year?
by Slawsc on Mar 13, 2010 11:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Huge Drop off?
With Battle, Jackson, Brooks, and Jones gone, the 2012 starting five as the team in constructed now will be
1. Frazier
2. Buie
3. Babb
4. Edwards
5. Sasa
Throw Jermaine Marshall and Cam Woodyard in there and that’s a decent, albeit small, team that needs tweaked a little in the next recruiting class. Add a JUCO forward and we should be ok in 2012 and ready for at least an NIT run in 2013.
So I’m not really losing much sleep over the roster turnover next season because most of the pieces are already in place, it’s just a matter of a little development, which beyond Jeff Brooks I don’t think Ed’s done an altogether bad job of in the last few years.
So I mean, you can rain the doom and gloom, but as I look down that roster without any additions I don’t see a whole lot that a year and a half of work can’t fix. Sorry.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 13, 2010 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
You can't be serious
What in the world did Sasa show this year that makes you believe he’ll be anything?
Name me one player in the Ed era that had almost no legit games as a freshman that had an impact on the program? All the guys that did pan out showed you at least something right away.
You can’t survive in the Big Ten without a front court, it’s too physical a league. We just finished in last place with a front court full of experienced red shirt juniors and Brooks, and you think Sasa and Edwards is an adequate front court? You can’t be serious.
We should be ok in 2012 and ready for at least an NIT run in 2013? Are you Ed’s wife? We are hanging onto Ed so that we can be ready for another NIT run by 2013? Any supporter of ED’s that talks about NIT runs needs to sit on the bench, nobody wants to hear about the NIT anymore, not unless ED is in the Elite 8 next year.
The one great thing about ED winning the NIT is that that accomplishment can finally be checked off. It’s nice to say you did it once, but no one’s going to give two shits if you do it again. The only reason it got the reaction it got last season is that people were so desperate for anything to be excited about since the program had been in the toilet for most of the decade.
by Richard Aceto on Mar 14, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Um
I didn’t see anything from Sasa that tells me he WON’T be anything either, so rather than jump to conclusions and start spouting off about ED’s past development struggles, I’m going to wait till I see the kid play more before I pass judgement. From what I saw this year, he’s agressive in both ends and quietly pulls down a lot of boards in the limited minutes he gets. The next Jamelle Cornley? Probably not. The next Milos Bogetic? Can’t answer that either.
And have you ever considered that in two years, Edwards and Sasa and whoever ED brings in in the next year and half might be BETTER than Jones, Brooks, and Jackson? Just because two of those three underacheived under ED in their Jr. years doesn’t mean the next generation will.
And as far as expectations go, I’m a realist. With or without Ed, the team ain’t dancing in 2012 and probably not 2013, so I’m not going to fire a guy returning his entire roster to what will be, at best, a plateauing Big Ten next year.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 14, 2010 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
I'm
not saying that Sasa will never be any good, but to tell me that Penn State should be in decent shape because there is one true forward returning for that season is ridiculous. Even if he turns out to be good, there’s no depth. We’ll have to rely on freshman again? Can’t wait.
Please forward this post to Buie, let him know he’ll probably be wasting his time at PSU, kind of like his brother.
So if we probably aren’t going to be in a position to compete for the NCAA’s until 2014, why should anyone care that Buie is now at Penn State?
by Richard Aceto on Mar 14, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
You’ve got a much better grasp on the situation than he does.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
All I know
is that Buie committed to Penn State when the program was completing a 27 win season and appeared to be heading in the right direction. That was before it was confirmed that Ed really isn’t that good of a coach. Thankfully for Ed, Buie was signed, sealed, and delivered before this last place disaster.
If you think its completely out of question that Buie plays with his brother for a year and bolts, you obviously don’t remember the Crispin brothers.
Having said that, the fact that Buie’s mom is now living in State College does work in Ed’s favor.
My theory that Buie could bolt is based on the assumption that he cares more about winning than having the chance to take 20 shots a game. I don’t know that.
by Richard Aceto on Mar 15, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
2010
Was on the shoulders of Andrew Jones and Jeff Brooks.
They’ll both be gone before Buie gets a chance to really make any kind of an impact.
The truth of the matter is that 2010 will have little to no effect on the team that takes the court in 2012, and Buie knows that. ED didn’t sell him on 2011, he sold him on being the future of Penn State basketball.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 15, 2010 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Penn State was Battle's best shot
And you don’t think Buie did some research? He made his decision and had offers from way bigger places than PSU. Who are you to question his decision?
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Mar 15, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Also Buie would lose a year if he bolted at this point
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Mar 15, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
No he wouldn't
He’d have to sit out a year but he’d still have 4 years. Those other big schools didn’t have his big brother.
I’m not saying it will happen, but I’ll believe Buie is committed to a losing program under Ed when I see it happen.
by Richard Aceto on Mar 16, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Why write the kid off?
I liked when he went and mixed it up in the paint. Big men develop slower than front court players. He also got to the foul line at a much higher rate than the other big men on the team. I think the kid has a lot of potential.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Mar 14, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
At least Sasa is aggressive
That’s an improvement over the freshman versions of Brooks, Jones, and almost every other forward we’ve had.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 14, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Heart and muscle
The best penn state teams always have a tough gritty leader. Someone w heart and muscle who would use his body and lay it all out on the line. James Barnes, Matt Gaudio, Jamelle Cornley. Guys who played more like football players than basketball players. I don’t see any of those guys yet. Sasa verdict is still out but he seems out on him. He needs to decide this offseason if he is going to become that style of player some of the good penn state teams have had.
by Slawsc on Mar 14, 2010 2:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Easy rec.
PSU has Burke and Alexis coming in for 2011-12, neither of which I have a problem with. Whoever the coach is, he’ll have three more scholarships available.
http://pennstatehoops.com/recruiting/showRecruits.php?recruitYear=2011
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 14, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Alexis has such a weird offer list.
WVU, ok. Texas A&M? Penn State? Yale?
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 14, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
When it comes to Jackson and probably Jones, I think Ed has gotten all he can get.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 13, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
Charts? Charts.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 14, 2010 1:54 PM EDT reply actions
Is there like an idiot's summary of this thing?
I love the insight Lar provides but there is a reason I took stats twice.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
I glazed over about 30 seconds into it.
His basic contention is what a lot of people thought about this year’s team — they played well enough to win a few more games, but for whatever reason, didn’t. Basically the “luck” factor from Pomeroy.
That’s what I got out of it, at least. Regardless, everyone knew his ultimate conclusion before they even read it.
(I’m officially set to “loathing apathy”, if such a thing could exist, with respect to DeChellis and the basketball program. I can be convinced of just about anything at this point. Ed’s awful, Ed’s doing the best in a bad situation, the team is close to winning, why do they look so complacent and confused, etc. The whole thing just sucks in so many ways.)
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 14, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm kinda where you are
I’m not angry and militant against ED, but I’m also not enamored with the guy. That said, the problem is bigger than him.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
All I know right now is that I really, really, really, really hate Kentucky and look forward to another choke job in the tourney due to poor free throw shooting.
I could care less about PSU right now.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 14, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
How can you not hate them, especially considering some of the egregious no-calls they got in the last two minutes?
I know.
I turned it off after some SEC hack ref excused Cousins ripping down Varnado, and then calling Varnado for the exact same type of foul 30 seconds later.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 14, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
it isn't
A broken clock is right twice a day
by Mr. Rosewater on Mar 15, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
summary
According to Sagarin/Pomeroy (which use performance based indicators), this year’s team was actually the second best under DeChellis, and so essentially the team is still improving over earlier in the decade. Unfortunately the wins aren’t coming our way, so if you look at it that way, then this year was still a step down, but that yearly fluctuations are to be expected, and that as a whole, the team is still better than they were a few years ago.
What I got out of it, even though it wasn’t specifically talked about, was that last year’s team overachieved, while this year’s team underachieved (when looking at number of wins compared to offensive/defensive performance, score differential, etc), but that on average we’re still better than we had been.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 15, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Have to say I'm very disappointed in the comments thus far
I expected a more acidic reaction to Ed’s…“non-firing?”. What happened to old fashioned outrage?
I want to see Ed through his contract, but I have a feeling you can’t spell Nittany without NIT.
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