Selection anger
by ckmneon on Mar 14, 2010 9:10 PM EDT
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I have a vague idea of what criteria the selection committee uses to determine what teams get into the dance at best. What I do know is that Notre Dame got a 6 seed, which means they were very, very comfortably in, and Illinois did not get in. Notre Dame must have a much better resume than Illinois then, right?
Notre Dame was 23-11, with 5 wins against the Colley Matrix top 50, but 6 wins against teams ranked #235 or lower. 3 of their losses were to teams ranked #28 or higher, but another 3 were to teams that finished #80 or lower.
Illinois was 19-14, with 5 wins against the Colley Matrix top 50, but only 3 were against teams ranked #235 or lower. 8 of their losses were to teams ranked #28 or higher, but another 4 were to teams that finished #80 or lower.
So removing completely understandable losses (#28 or higher) and complete garbage wins (#235 or lower) changes things a bit. Notre Dame is now 17-8 with 5 quality wins and 3 bad losses. Illinois is now 16-6 with 5 quality wins and 4 bad losses.
I'm not here to tell you which resume is better. I'm not trying to say that ND didn't deserve in or that Illinois did. I'm sure that if different arbritrary cutoff points were used in the Colley Matrix (or any other rankings) this could tell a different story. What I am trying to say is that a reasonable person could look at objective, reasonable, unbiased, wins-and-losses data and think Illinois had every bit the season Notre Dame did, if not better.
One is a 6 seed; one is not in.
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OMG BIG EAST SKILLZ
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
The Committee
Do you (or anyone else) know who was on the selection committee this year. Normally this ends up being leaked, but without PSU having a chance to get in, I completely failed to care.
Reach out; touch faith.
Temple
So this team gets a 5 seed? Are you serious? And Nova gets a 2? This was the year of mid-majors getting jobbed.
And Kansus better be pissed. The number one overall seed had the toughest 2, 3 and 5, in the entire tournament.
I'm with Gasaway on this:
W/ perfect round-robin scheduling San Diego St. and New Mexico were identical per-possession. Former’s an 11. Latter’s a 3. For your use
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 14, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
No kidding
Kansas-Ohio State was probably going to be my final if they were on opposite sides of the bracket. And Maryland’s no slouch, and Tennessee is a dangerous-as-hell 6. Honestly, I could take any of the top 6 seeds from the Midwest over anyone in the South and not even blink.
At least they got one thing right
Virginia Tech: out.
They royally screwed up seeding, but for the most part who’s in and who’s out is reasonable. I would have liked to see Illinois in, but their exclusion wasn’t ridiculous.
Yeah...
I even think ‘Nova got a gift. Temple probably should’ve been a four seed. Yes they beat ’Nova, but after that they beat almost nobody. Plus they got flat out embarrased by Kansas at home.
Illinois’ beef isn’t with Notre Dame. They can thank Minnesota’s run in the Big Ten tourney. Looks like Illinois would’ve been in had they beaten o$U.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
Ah, beer, my one weakness. My Achille's heel, if you will. - HJS
by Esteban d' Amur on Mar 15, 2010 8:01 AM EDT reply actions
Illinois and Notre Dame
Notre Dame went on a nice run to end the regular season and advance to the Big East semis, and at least a couple of their losses can be attributed to Harangody’s injury. Illinois did the opposite and lost 7 of their last 9 games (or something like that), including losing at home to fellow bubble team Minnesota. If they’d won one of those games they’d likely be in the NCAA tourney instead of a #1 in the NIT. I don’t think any of Illinois’s losses can be attributed to an injury to a key player like Notre Dame’s can.
Like others have said, I have no gripes with who’s in and who’s out of the tournament, I think the selection committee did a great job of that this year. My gripes are with seeds, and I have more of those complaints than normal this year.
Let's Go State!
Agreed.
If Cole Aldrich would have gotten hurt and KU had lost 4 additional games when he was out of the lineup, Kansas would not be the #1 overall seed.
Then again, maybe they would have been in Duke’s weak-ass South region, where they could walk into the Final Four with their eyes closed and Xavier Henry’s right arm tied behind his back.
Plus Harangody...
Is Harangirly like Diebler is the Dweebler.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 15, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Illinois's late-season slide ...
… can be attributed to an insanely back-loaded schedule. Their final 9 games:
MSU (W)
@Wisc (W)
OSU (L)
@Pur (L)
@Mich (W)
Minn (L)
@OSU (L)
Wisc (L)
v. Wisc (W)
v. OSU (L)
That’s six games against Pomeroy top 4 teams in their last 9. And they won two of them, both away from home.
Illinois didn’t go into a slump, they simply ran into an insane schedule.
I've always liked the idea...
…of using something like the BCS computer average and taking the top 128 teams. No automatic bids, and teams seeded strictly according to their end of year rank.
Reach out; touch faith.
I'm never a fan of eliminating conference champs
If we’re going to say that certain conferences aren’t good enough to play with the big boys, then they should just move them to a lower division (maybe this should happen anyway?). Until then, conference champs should get the auto-bid, especially since the majority of games are played in-conference.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 15, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
FWIW
No team with 25 or more wins is outside the top 128 in the Colley Matrix (though Vermont, at 25-9, is #128).
I see what you’re saying, but if Vermont can get in when: they won less than 75% of their games, their best wins were over Fairfield (#101) and Rutgers (#124), and their best losses were to Cornell (#49) and Providence (#140), then everybody has a very fair shot to make it.
Reach out; touch faith.
well if it did expand to 128 teams
chances are most conference champs would be in anyway, yes, but right now with just the 65 teams you still need to include them with auto-bids.
Even with 128 teams you might as well still include them with auto-bids, since it is more fair (doesn’t depend on some abstract ranking system, while accounting for differing schedules, etc), and you can’t really get mad about them being included over the #128 team (again, from some abstract ranking system). For example, I’d be more annoyed that a conference champion was excluded, even if they were ranked 129 than I would be that the #128 team got bumped in favor of a conference champ.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 15, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I have always been extremely anti-expanding the field
In fact, I do not even like the idea of deciding your national champion in a 65 team single elimination tournament. I think you would crown a more legit champ if you took all the conference champions and played a best of three tourny, or something like that. At any rate, since CBS and the NCAA would never dream of altering the world’s most perfect TV sporting event in that way, I would at least want to see an expanded tournament with several rounds of byes for the top seeds. For example, the #1’s are in to the sweet 16, the #2’s jump in during the round of 32, #3 and #4’s in the round of 64, and everybody else in a pigtail round behind that.
It would be interesting to see how that would play with contract negotiations
“We’ve made the tournament in all of the past 4 seasons” just wouldn’t be quite as impressive
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 16, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Football comparison
It would be like making a bowl is now in football. With 175 teams making the tournament and 347 teams in d1, slightly over half of teams would make the tournament. With the current bowl setup, slightly over half of d1a teams make a bowl.
I don’t know how many teams can say, “We’ve made a bowl each of the past four seasons,” but I’ll bet it’s a fairly small number. The only B10 teams that can say it are Penn State, Ohio State, and Wisconsin. It wouldn’t include Michigan, Notre Dame, Tennessee, and Nebraska, and those teams are all in the top 10 all time in wins.
Reach out; touch faith.
yeah, but look at their coaching stability lately as well
and even the coaching stability of teams that are making it to lesser bowls on a “frequent” level.
I’m also pretty against the current bowl format where half of the teams go to bowls every year. It is just ridiculous.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 17, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
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