BSD Basketball Roundtable - Part II
Yesterday we discussed the past season and took a look at the players that have to step up in 2010-2010. Today we continue with Part II of our BSD basketball roundtable.
With everyone returning, what should we expect out of this team next year? What is the goal?
Mike: I think there's reason for hope. Frazier, Edwards, and Sasa should come back stronger and more seasoned. Battle, Brooks, Jones, and Jackson realize it's do-or-die time. They don't get another chance. Add in Taran Buie and Jermaine Marshall and you have a very interesting mix of experience and youth on what should be Ed's deepest bench ever. They showed at the end of the season they can beat teams like Michigan and Northwestern while not getting run out of the arena against teams like Purdue, Michigan State, and Ohio State. If they can handle the bottom dwellers, hold their own against the middle of the pack like Illinois and Minnesota, pick off one or two of the big boys and look impressive in the non-conference slate, I think this team can go to the NCAA tournament. At this point, I think that has to be the goal. Anything less may not be enough to save Ed's job.
RUTS: The goal is always to make the NCAA tournament, but it's hard to believe that this group of players can do it. There's still no inside presence to speak of, either offensively or defensively. The team doesn't generate any turnovers on defense. Despite the incremental improvement of guys like Babb, Jackson, and Jeff Brooks, it's still "Talor Battle and a bunch of guys" out there, and that's not enough to win 10+ games in the conference. Considering Penn State's usual practice of playing awful non-conference games (and losing more of them than they should), that's how many conference wins it'll take to go dancing in March.
FTG: Let's keep it broad: make the postseason. For all the talk about the NCAA tournament, people often forget that this program has yet to establish itself as even a consistent NIT or bubble team, let alone an annual NCAA threat. An NIT berth next year makes two in three years, which for this program would be an important step. Win between 15-20 games next season, and I think it's a good year, regardless of the tournament the Lions end up playing in when spring rolls around. The NCAA tournament would be great, but another good NIT run wouldn't be a disaster.
Is Ed DeChellis the guy to get this team to a level where they can be an NCAA tournament regular?
RUTS: No, he's not. But he's the guy we have. Ed's always been a curious "chicken or egg" case at Penn State. Is he a bad coach, or a good coach making the best out of a bad situation? It's become awfully difficult to say he's the best guy for the job. None of his post players, except for the undersized and overachieving Cornley, have been up to Big Ten standards. What's worse, his smallish teams don't do the things that smallish teams have to do -- they don't shoot or defend three pointers very well, they play awful positional defense, and they don't generate steals or force turnovers. The team has no identity, and never has under DeChellis.
FTG: No, but he's the right guy to build the program to that point. He's shown the ability to find some pretty good players (Claxton, Cornley, Battle, etc.) and he's shown the ability to develop most of his players into pretty good basketball players in four years. I think it's also admirable that he was able to keep the team motivated even in such a tough year. That said, it's obvious he isn't any better than an average Xs and Os guy, and that's being generous, and he's probably never going to attract the blue chip talent that most of his Big 10 peers can. I'm not sure if he's capable of putting a team in the tournament every year, or even every other year, but I think he's capable of making this program visible and attractive to whoever his successor might be when that day comes.
Mike: I'm still on the fence about Ed. When you look at where the program was when he took over and where it is now, there is no denying that progress has been made. I guess I'm willing to be patient with him for now. I like how he is building a program the right way. We could hire some hot shot coach for $5 million per year who will come in and buy NBA caliber talent and give us a tournament run or two, but most likely he'll be on to another gig in three years and we'll be stuck with NCAA sanctions. I don't want that.
They gave Ed six years to make any kind of post season tournament. I think he deserves another few years to see what he can do. He poured the foundation, so we should at least see if he can build the house. I think as far as this season goes, everyone knew they were going to take a step back to rebuild. It's encouraging that they were really close to pulling off some big wins during that horrid losing streak, but at the same time it's a little concerning. I think a good coach should be good for five points per game, so to lose so many games by two or three points tells me Ed was getting out-coached. Talor Battle won a lot of games single handedly in 2008-2009. Teams adjusted to that this year and didn't let him get away with taking the last shot. It's up to Ed to adjust now.
0 recs |
48 comments
|
Comments
these MBB posts are like a dirge
fortunately after we lay the MBB season to rest, we can get back to football, where hope springs eternal.
Do you want the mustache on, or off?
Too bad.
That depressed huh?
I think there’s a lot of hope for basketball. Not the hope for awesomeness like the football team, but at least hope for heights we’re not used to in these parts. Keep thine head up brother. November is right around the corner.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Mar 16, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven’t been depressed about the it*, but it seems like the bad season has been a storm cloud over BSD. Usually when your football team goes 11-2, beats an SEC team in a bowl, man you’d have a ton of good vibes that last on into spring ball. But this hasn’t been the happiest place since Jan 1st.
*Ok actually I was a little disappointed, but last year we were incredibly lucky to win the games we did. Maybe you make your own luck, but if you average the last two seasons’ record in games that ended within 5 points, we’re about even now. It’s not normal that many close games like we did in 2008.
Do you want the mustache on, or off?
Too bad.
yeah, I think that a lot of people overlook this
we were very lucky last year, and very unlucky this year, and they probably average out. Unfortunately the very unlucky season had to come on the heels of the very lucky season, so it looks like a much bigger step back than it probably really was.
If you look at the RPI (wins based), KenPom and Sagarin (both more “performance” based, independent of wins, and can factor out the “luck” part somewhat)
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=157&f=1548&t=5722273

Performance based (just looking at the raw numbers, not the rolling averages), this was still the second best season under DeChellis (though not a ton better than 2008).
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 16, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
What Mike said.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 16, 2010 12:24 PM EDT reply actions
"... there is no denying that progress has been made."
I’m not a frothing-at-the-mouth anti-ED guy, but I think there’s plenty of room to deny that progress has been made.
Really?
You think we are no better off than we were in the last year of the Jerry Dunn era?
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
B10 Records
Last year of Dunn: 2-14
First year of DeChellis: 3-14
…
This year: 3-16
I think the state of the program going forward is probably a little better, but there’s significantly more than “no denying.” DeChellis took us to an NIT Championship last year, Dunn took us to the Sweet 16 two years before his firing. One more year like this one, and their reigns are nearly identical, except Dunn’s heights were higher.
Yeah but
It was obvious that after that Sweet 16 run there was nothing left in the tank due to years of neglect in recruiting. In Dunn’s last year he was losing games by 30 points. Ed is steadily upgrading the talent and he has been competitive in all but one or two games this year.
But I agree. At some point Ed has to take this program to the next level. He has shown he can bring in talent that allows him to compete. Now he has to develop that talent and win. He has to show progress next year.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
You can debate the amount of progress, perhaps, but you can’t deny that the program is in better shape going forward than it had been.
Sometimes I write here- www.thegallyblog.com
by TheK-GunNeedsReloaded on Mar 16, 2010 12:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hmm
Teams adjusted to that this year and didn’t let him get away with taking the last shot. It’s up to Ed to adjust now.
So if he doesn’t adjust this season, can we start photoshopping him into this picture?

We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
"a good coach should be good for five points per game"
just because we lost a bunch of games by 2 or 3 points doesn’t necessarily mean Ed was getting out-coached. The game tape probably indicates he was, but the point differential itself doesn’t. Perhaps we really would have lost those games by 7 or 8 points if not for Ed (again, I don’t necessarily think this is true, based on how inept certain coachable aspects of our game looked this season). Sorta like the chicken/egg conundrum that was mentioned earlier.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 16, 2010 12:39 PM EDT reply actions
I like Ed, but
next year should be make or break for him. They don’t have to make the tournament, but they need to consistently win the games they should and compete for a tournament bid.
I’m not sure that, under Ed, the talent is ever going to be a lot better than next year, so he’s got to demonstrate that he can win with that level.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Ed has build a foundation
upon which Penn State can build a team. I think we under estimate the effect of having a top notch BB facility. That came into being under Ed in the past few years. We now have the facilities to attract better players. It also enables us to attract a better coach in the future. Our BB practice facilities we so dismal Ed was the best they could hire at the time. Coaches know what it takes to recruit kids and Penn State didn’t have it therefore, no top coach would consider us. Now they will thanks to Ed.
You all (and spakajewia) did a good job.
I was going to recap the season as such:
A Penn State men’s basketball team was not very good. Also, the sky is blue today.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
only above the black clouds
"They stalk their prey to within two or three great leaps and then launch a lightning-fast charge, striking their prey. Victims are most often killed by suffocation with a prolonged bite..."--Hinterland Who's Who
the comment count...
….to Part I of the MBB roundtable kinda speaks to the interest (or apathy) of the MBB team.
bring on spring practice
We will soon
We just thought we had to close the book on the basketball season first.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
I actually really like
reading about all the PSU sports on here…I guess i was trying to say I think most people feel “let’s get this damn basketball season behind us”
Remember when
you could come here and read about PSU football year round…
eh
I like this better.
Also, being as this may be the last MBB thread in a while, I need to get this pic in while it’s still remotely topical.

Do you want the mustache on, or off?
Too bad.
Remember when someone who posted one comment *ever* suddenly decided to pipe up and complain?
This week is the end of basketball until November. You’ll survive.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 16, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm happy to take shit from people, but come on.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 16, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
actually
my second comment ever…think i complained about Ant**ny Mor**li a couple years ago too…whatev…
You’re a new poster who made one of his first posts a sarcastic (and by the by, there is nothing happening in football right now) post complaining about the post selection of the mods. Not usually a good way for a new poster to introduce himself, you know?
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 17, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
point taken. just hungry for some football talk, even if it’s just big 10 expan speculation or why notre dame sucks…psu bball is meh.
It will undoubtedly come up again as soon as some new interweb rumor starts
but we’ve covered expansion pretty frequently during the BB season.
Umm
Actually, no, I don’t.
IT’S MARCH, FRIENDO.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 16, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
is it bad that I can completely see Rambler talking like this?
and that it doesn’t even come as a surprise?
Just keep him away from the pneumatic guns
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 16, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Blame Chigurh.
Friendo is just so much better than buddy in internet discussions.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 16, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Feel the pain, brother
Let it penetrate your soul. It makes the good times all that much sweeter.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
I see you'll be one to remember
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
When it comes to Ed
I still like to draw parallels between him and Bruce Arena – the former US Men’s Soccer National Team coach. As I’m sure many are not well-versed in their US Futbol, I’ll give a quick overview.
Arena was hired in 1998 after a horrendous showing in the World Cup, and just a year removed from their lowest FIFA World Ranking in USMNT history (35th). In the next four years, Arena would start to bring together talent and put in a system that would work with the talent. The 2002 World Cup saw the Americans upset a perennial favorite Portugal in the group stage, helping move the US to the knockout rounds (playoffs). The US would continue their run by knocking off Mexico in the first round, before being bounced by 2nd place finisher Germany in the quarterfinals (and a close 1-0 loss at that). After some more international success, US Soccer would see it’s highest FIFA ranking at 4th in 2006, just prior to the 2006 World Cup. Then, the 2006 World Cup happened, and the US sucked. Hard. A lot of the blame was placed on Arena’s shoulders for not using the players properly, and not using the right formations/systems in these games. There were other criticisms that the style of play Arena was using was no longer a surprise as it was in 2002. Arena was not re-signed after the 2006 World Cup, and now has a new head coach (Bob Bradley).
So, how does this connect? Well, we have two programs with little historical success and a general sense of disinterest by much of the potential fan base. The two coaches come in, start to turn things around, and start to find success in their styles. With Arena, he found great success until the rest of the teams found ways to exploit the style of play he had implemented. In essence, Arena wasn’t able to take the US Men’s National Team to the next level. My feeling is that Ed will be much of the same – be able to bring some respectability to an otherwise struggling program, but just isn’t enough of a coach to take the players and program to the next level. I think next season is the equivalent of the 2006 World Cup, and how Ed does will make or break his future.
"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."
by IcersGuy on Mar 16, 2010 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
*Goes off to write an Icers season recap....*
"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."
You had me at "Bruce Arena".
Started nodding my head immediately.
Twitter: @scrappled
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 16, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
hi, I'm IcersGuy and I have a problem
I’m addicted to very low scoring sports with a lot of passing (insert Simpsons soccer game video here) that aren’t very popular in the United States.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 16, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
HAHAHAHASTOPMOCKINGME!!!! >O
oh, and rec’d
"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."
The parallels are frightening
However, next year might be the first year ever that my hopes are higher for the basketball team than they are for the football team. If the football gods were to come to me in a dream and say something along the lines of, “Behind door one is 9-4, an Alamo Bowl win, and reason to believe that 2011 will be an MNC type team, behind door 2 is anything else.” I’m taking door one and not looking back. If the basketball gods did the same thing and said, “Behind door one is 10-8 in the Big Ten and elimination in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament, behind door 2 is anything else.” I’m taking door two.
Reach out; touch faith.
Since you brought up soccer....
Bill Simmons was once writing about the 2006 World Cup, and as a (mostly, I think) casual observer, he was instantly in love with the stupid cards the refs carry and suggested they brought into basketball. He is more right than he knows. I can’t think of any two sports more connected by bad officials, so I am in full support of making Ed Hightower into a bigger spectacle by giving him a red card to wave at Tom Izzo.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 16, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
can we give him something even more outrageous to hand out?
like he can pull some random object out of his hair
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 17, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we solve the recruiting competition problem?
Big time recruits in the east can choose from the Philly schools, Pitt, WVU, UConn, and Syracuse. How does PSU get those kinds of players?
I don't buy that
I’m tired of hearing this crap about high school kids not wanting to spend four years in the cow pastures of State College. The Penn State campus is gorgeous, and the down town is lively. The football team seems to recruit kids from inner cities just fine. The volleyball program brings in kids from all over the country even though all of the volleyball power house programs are in California. Build a winning program, and kids will come to Penn State. It starts and ends with winning.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
"build a winning program"
while possible, it is much harder to do if you don’t get the good recruits, can’t get the good recruits until we have a (consistent) winning program, hard to have a winning program without good recruits, ad infinitum.
by The JuggerNitt on Mar 18, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that
it’s more about winning, and not about cow pastures, but you need players first to win. For one thing, IMO non-urban Pennsylvania is rather barren of big-time basketball talent whereas for football PA is much richer in talent. We can go to suburban western PA and get Pozluszny and Shipley, but we can’t go to the Pittsburgh city league and get a comparable level of talent. And what little b-ball talent there is around here is currently gravitating to the surrounding schools I mentioned.

by 
















